Are you an Atheist/Believer?

[Marcel1]

As much as believers have "proof" and faith so do non believers so my guess is 50/50.

wasn't raised to be religious but my parents were free and open to anything if I wanted. Been to the christian church many times as well as the mosque and many jewish celebrations.

I still do not believe anything before I see it but, would never call people stupid for doing so. In the end maybe I am...

I do expect from others to be respected as I do to them but that not always goes up. I do not believe and also am not interested in many more stories about why I am not because it is an discussion you will never win. they believe and you do. leave everyone in each others value and be happy.

[RandomSand]

again you either fail or you choose not to understand,

as they say in Thailand "Up to you"

Wow! you truly presented that "Up to you" in a Thai way.

[notmyself]

Just because we can't prove either; doesn't mean one is true and the other false.

?

It a binary question. There either is or there is not

[RandomSand]

we did not wake up one day and say " hey we don't believe",

It was a process

we had similar conversations with our selves and others, and finally we came to the conclusion that we have.

You sound like an intelligent well intending individual. I am sure that if you continue exploring the subject you will eventually come to a similar position .

You're experience sounds 180deg opposite to mine.

I wasn't raised to believe in god. The impression I got from my mother was "that's for the superstitious and foolish" to busy themselves with.

Then as I got older I learned about god.

I don't want to "unlearn".

For me it's real but what's real for me is only real for me. It's very personal.

[RandomSand]

Just because we can't prove either; doesn't mean one is true and the other false.

?

It a binary question. There either is or there is not

We can't prove it either way can we?

[wym]

We can't prove it either way can we?

Not to each other.

But each of us can become certain enough in our own heart - or at least open-minded enough - so that it can influence how we live our lives, try to be the best human being we can be.

Just as true for the atheists as the believers, and those that actually succeed in this will be doubly blessed by the results in their lives, no matter their intellectual stance.

[RandomSand]

Ahhh, some fresh air. Thanks wym.

[notmyself]

Just because we can't prove either; doesn't mean one is true and the other false.

?

It a binary question. There either is or there is not

We can't prove it either way can we?

Nor can anyone prove or disprove my claim of a pink leprechaun called Colin in my shed. Colin does or does not exist either way.

[notmyself]

Ahhh, some fresh air. Thanks wym.

Not really, you are putting yourself in a position where you have to consider everything to be viable such as Colin above.

If he is viable then what should we use as a criteria to avoid being mired in endless questions?

You are sitting in and endless game and unable to make a single move because there an infinite number of variables to consider.

Edited January 17, 2014 by notmyself

[sirineou]

Just because we can't prove either; doesn't mean one is true and the other false.

?

It a binary question. There either is or there is not

5555555

God is like Schrodinger's cat, until we can see him , he can be both dead and alive

[sirineou]

We can't prove it either way can we?

Not to each other.

But each of us can become certain enough in our own heart - or at least open-minded enough - so that it can influence how we live our lives, try to be the best human being we can be.

Just as true for the atheists as the believers, and those that actually succeed in this will be doubly blessed by the results in their lives, no matter their intellectual stance.

a beautiful and well intended sentiment but unfortunately not correct,

to say that Atheist have a stance is to say that abstinence is a sexual position

If you can understand the above statement you can understand Atheism, otherwise you have a profound misunderstanding of what atheism is.

[wym]

Ahhh, some fresh air. Thanks wym.

Not really, you are putting yourself in a position where you have to consider everything to be viable such as Colin above.

If he is viable then what should we use as a criteria to avoid being mired in endless questions?

You are sitting in and endless game and unable to make a single move because there an infinite number of variables to consider.

Only if you're overly reliant on your intellect in figuring out how to live your life.

Even the most brilliant scientists have historically been open about the importance played by direct perception, AKA "intuition" in their discoveries and inventions.

What psychology calls the subconscious mind is infinitely more powerful than the "rational" - reasoning, problem-solving part of our intelligence.

Keep that part of your mind open while you listen with your heart, explore the beliefs and practices of traditions that seem most trustworthy to you (may or may not be those of your own culture), seek out those teachers/mentors who seem wise to you, and start little by little baby steps to incorporate into your own day-to-day life some of the beliefs and practices that make sense to you.

Observe the results. If your life improves, perhaps do a bit more. If not, look elsewhere.

It's not rocket science.

Edited January 17, 2014 by wym

[wym]

a beautiful and well intended sentiment but unfortunately not correct,

to say that Atheist have a stance is to say that abstinence is a sexual position

If you can understand the above statement you can understand Atheism, otherwise you have a profound misunderstanding of what atheism is.

Abstinence is most certainly a specific stance toward questions of sexual ethics.

And a good parallel IMO, a dogmatic refusal to consider much more rewarding alternatives.

(Or did you mean position as in doggie-style?)

[sirineou]

a beautiful and well intended sentiment but unfortunately not correct,

to say that Atheist have a stance is to say that abstinence is a sexual position

If you can understand the above statement you can understand Atheism, otherwise you have a profound misunderstanding of what atheism is.

Abstinence is most certainly a specific stance toward questions of sexual ethics.

And a good parallel IMO, a dogmatic refusal to consider much more rewarding alternatives.

(Or did you mean position as in doggie-style?)

I mean Position as in doggie style

actually the quote is:

"Atheism is a religion as abstinence is a sexual position"

a clever quote to state the obvious and unfortunately not mine.

Atheism is simply a term designed to describe some one who does not accept your theistic assertion. It describes nothing else about the person.

As soon as theists can accept that proposition, we can move on and explore your claims.

we simply say. we heard all that you said and we don't believe you, we don't necessarily think you are lying, but we think,based on the available evidence, you are deluding your selves.

and we would not care very much about your delusions,until your delusions (not necessarily yours personally ) infringe on our right to not delude our selves.

I think you would agree, that there are many contradicting religious claims, and not all of them can be true, in fact since yours (not necessarily yours personally) is the only right one ,all others must be wrong. Yet most of them have attempted or are attempting to impose theme selves upon as.

Edited January 17, 2014 by sirineou

[RandomSand]

Just because we can't prove either; doesn't mean one is true and the other false.

?

It a binary question. There either is or there is not

We can't prove it either way can we?

Nor can anyone prove or disprove my claim of a pink leprechaun called Colin in my shed. Colin does or does not exist either way.

If there were two leprechauns in front of me, the first thing I'd do is ask them "are you leprechauns?". Suppose one says "yes" and the other says "no leprechauns don't exist".

I'd be a right dingbat to walk away thinking leprechauns didn't exist because a leprechaun told me so!!

Edited January 17, 2014 by RandomSand

[notmyself]

Atheism is simply a term designed to describe some one who does not accept your theistic assertion. It describes nothing else about the person.

Not designed at all.

Theism is a claim that there is an intervening god so atheism is a rejection of the claim in so much that 'I don't believe you' is.

[sirineou]

Atheism is simply a term designed to describe some one who does not accept your theistic assertion. It describes nothing else about the person.

Not designed at all.

Theism is a claim that there is an intervening god so atheism is a rejection of the claim in so much that 'I don't believe you' is.

Dude ,, did you know your chicken stopped dancing?

even your chicken is getting tired of this endless moving in circles

Atheism is simply a term, personally I don't like it at all , I would rather be called a skeptic.

[RandomSand]

The topic is ambiguous.

A theist denotes someone who believes in a personality of god(s). The term believer is a larger umbrella that can include a belief in a higher power which is impersonal.

Edited January 17, 2014 by RandomSand

[notmyself]

Atheism is simply a term, personally I don't like it at all , I would rather be called a skeptic.

It is a term but it defining something by what it is not. We have no term for someone who does not collect stamps do we? Is the term an astampcollecter in any way meaningful?

[sirineou]

Atheism is simply a term, personally I don't like it at all , I would rather be called a skeptic.

It is a term but it defining something by what it is not. We have no term for someone who does not collect stamps do we? Is the term an astampcollecter in any way meaningful?

Oh good, your chicken is dancing again,It was freaking me out man

did it stop dancing for every one or was it just for me?(now I am getting paranoid)

That's exactly my point also, me polo hermano why would religion deserve a special term describing some one who does not believe in it, I have never being called an aeasterbunnyist

Though there was a time that I truly believed.

I think skeptic is a better term and covers everything.

[StreetCowboy]

Atheism is simply a term, personally I don't like it at all , I would rather be called a skeptic.

It is a term but it defining something by what it is not. We have no term for someone who does not collect stamps do we? Is the term an astampcollecter in any way meaningful?

As I understand it, atheists believe that there is no god. I know a lot of atheists on this thread try to portray themselves as agnostics, and I can understand why, from a practical point of view, due to a lack of confidence in their beliefs, they might choose to do so, but I am not convinced, and in my view it is dishonest, and if there is a God, I doubt He will be fooled either

SC

Edit: Spelling

Edited January 17, 2014 by StreetCowboy

[sirineou]

The topic is ambiguous.

A theist denotes someone who believes in a personality of god(s). The term believer is a larger umbrella that can include a belief in a higher power which is impersonal.

yes true

But the other part of the title of this thread is "Atheist", so it is safe to assume that believer in this context is a Theist

[sirineou]

Atheism is simply a term, personally I don't like it at all , I would rather be called a skeptic.

It is a term but it defining something by what it is not. We have no term for someone who does not collect stamps do we? Is the term an astampcollecter in any way meaningful?

As I understand it, atheists believe that there is no god. I know a lot og atheists on this thread try to portrray themselves as agnostics, and I can understand why, from a practical point of view, due to a lack of confidence in their beliefs, they might choose to do so, but I am not convinced, and in my view it is dishonest, and if there is a God, I doubt He will be fooled either

SC

Sorry SC but you understand it wrong, and since you understand it wrong, your whole premise in this reply is wrong also.

Every Atheist I know of, including Richard Dawkins place them selves no higher than a 7 in the scale, so I don't know where you get your understanding from.

Unless of course this is an other belief unsubstantiated by facts and should be taken on faith

[notmyself]

Atheism is simply a term, personally I don't like it at all , I would rather be called a skeptic.

It is a term but it defining something by what it is not. We have no term for someone who does not collect stamps do we? Is the term an astampcollecter in any way meaningful?

As I understand it, atheists believe that there is no god. I know a lot of atheists on this thread try to portray themselves as agnostics, and I can understand why, from a practical point of view, due to a lack of confidence in their beliefs, they might choose to do so, but I am not convinced, and in my view it is dishonest, and if there is a God, I doubt He will be fooled either

SC

Edit: Spelling

I replied very early in this thread to you directly saying that it was not the case my dear fellow member SC. Would you like me to drag it up? (groan)

[notmyself]

I think skeptic is a better term and covers everything.

I fully agree but it covers more than the topic at hand.

[wym]

The topic is ambiguous.

A theist denotes someone who believes in a personality of god(s). The term believer is a larger umbrella that can include a belief in a higher power which is impersonal.

yes true

But the other part of the title of this thread is "Atheist", so it is safe to assume that believer in this context is a Theist

What?

My conception of God certainly does not include any aspect of "personality", that's just anthropomorphism.

I am absolutely certain that my mind isn't capable of comprehending the nature of something even a few levels above humanity, much less all the way at the top, the First Cause, All That Is.

[wym]

Atheism is simply a term designed to describe some one who does not accept your theistic assertion. It describes nothing else about the person.

As soon as theists can accept that proposition, we can move on and explore your claims.

we simply say. we heard all that you said and we don't believe you, we don't necessarily think you are lying, but we think,based on the available evidence, you are deluding your selves.

and we would not care very much about your delusions,until your delusions (not necessarily yours personally:) ) infringe on our right to not delude our selves.

I think you would agree, that there are many contradicting religious claims, and not all of them can be true, in fact since yours (not necessarily yours personally) is the only right one ,all others must be wrong. Yet most of them have attempted or are attempting to impose theme selves upon as.

Well I personally have never tried to impose my beliefs on anyone, including (especially) my children.

And any belief system that included such practices, including claiming that one path was "better" than another, any idea of "us vs them" would IMO not be valid, not in alignment with what I consider genuine spirituality.

In those ideas I am fully in alignment with the atheists, very much opposed to any dogmatic or even organized religion.

However I think refusing to even consider that there may be valid beliefs and practices within those traditions buried under all the accumulated garbage to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[notmyself]

Atheism is simply a term designed to describe some one who does not accept your theistic assertion. It describes nothing else about the person.

As soon as theists can accept that proposition, we can move on and explore your claims.

we simply say. we heard all that you said and we don't believe you, we don't necessarily think you are lying, but we think,based on the available evidence, you are deluding your selves.

and we would not care very much about your delusions,until your delusions (not necessarily yours personally:) ) infringe on our right to not delude our selves.

I think you would agree, that there are many contradicting religious claims, and not all of them can be true, in fact since yours (not necessarily yours personally) is the only right one ,all others must be wrong. Yet most of them have attempted or are attempting to impose theme selves upon as.

Well I personally have never tried to impose my beliefs on anyone, including (especially) my children.

And any belief system that included such practices, including claiming that one path was "better" than another, any idea of "us vs them" would IMO not be valid, not in alignment with what I consider genuine spirituality.

In those ideas I am fully in alignment with the atheists, very much opposed to any dogmatic or even organized religion.

However I think refusing to even consider that there may be valid beliefs and practices within those traditions buried under all the accumulated garbage to be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

You seem to know your stuff so perhaps you could explain just what 'spirituality' means because it's pretty wishy washy.

[sirineou]

The topic is ambiguous.

A theist denotes someone who believes in a personality of god(s). The term believer is a larger umbrella that can include a belief in a higher power which is impersonal.

yes true

But the other part of the title of this thread is "Atheist", so it is safe to assume that believer in this context is a Theist

What?

My conception of God certainly does not include any aspect of "personality", that's just anthropomorphism.

I am absolutely certain that my mind isn't capable of comprehending the nature of something even a few levels above humanity, much less all the way at the top, the First Cause, All That Is.

The title of this thread is:

Atheist/Believer?

so it is safe, with in the context of this thread, to take the word "believer"

to mean Theist

This is answering the What?

The rest of this reply is incoherent, at least to me it is,

When some one says that they'r created in the image of god, that's not anthropomorphism?

[notmyself]

The title of this thread is:

Atheist/Believer?

so it is safe, with in the context of this thread, to take the word "believer"

to mean Theist

Nope, could mean Deist.