Are you an Atheist/Believer?

[Leung Falang]

I wonder of those that don't believe in God, when you are child/loved one is diagnosed with cancer and the doctors say there is nothing that they can do, would you then pray to God?

My personal experience is that people with like minds find each other. The reason that the OP has no friends that are religious is because he isn't. Why would they or he want to be around people they cannot share their beliefs together?

I believe that there are a lot more people looking for something to believe in than not. My generation of people seemed to stray from faith but now those that have no faith often have children that want to understand what their parents reject.

There are those of faith that want to talk with everyone about it, and then there are those that have the same faith but are very private because of the scorn they get from the 7's on your list. It is socially acceptable to be atheist and talk about it, but it isn't socailly acceptable to praise the lord in mixed company. At least in Thailand people accept you and don't argue with you when you share with them.

1. If an unbeliever has a loved one dying and he chooses to pray. That does not make him a believer, it just means he's grasping at any hope no matter how irrational. I'm a 7 and I might pray if my child had cancer even though I really know it doesn't work.

2. Yeah, nothing worse than people that are really pro-religion. My fewer number of friends that do believe are not proselytizers so they're cool.

3. Younger people are straying from religion but their kids are not looking for what their parents reject. That just does not follow. It's like saying, my dad didn't believe in alchemy, I'm going to search that more deeply.

4. This is an interesting point and one I hadn't thought of before. It is now socially acceptable to profess atheism but religion gets scorn. The times have flip flopped things.

All the Thai Buddhists that I know pray to the "air", not Buddha, and sometimes in Isaan, they pray to the house ghost or village ghost.

I am "pro God", not "pro religion". Buddhism is a religion but Buddha said he was not God, but that people should continue to look for God since he had not yet found him.

[Eneukman]

I'd waver between 6 and 7. I can respect people's religion, or at least the right to adhere to one, as long as they respect my right not to.

Pretty much the same as I am. People are entitled to their views provided they don't try to ram them down my throat.

Alan

[GuestHouse]

Its interesting how religion threads attract so many zealots from the atheist camp.

[GAZZPA]

Please close this thread, as its going to turn in to a group of hateful religious comments.

People have the right to practice any religion they choose. Respect it

Christopher Hitchens:

Religion poisons everyhing!

Is Christopher Hitchins the new gospel? People seem to take his word without question.

SC

Christopher Hitchins was (he died of cancer recently) a well educated man who was an author and regular columnist for various magazines (i think Vanity Fair and the Times supplement). He had a fantastic grasp of language and a huge vocabulary which he used with expert precision. He was famous for participating in healthy debates and he had an unrivaled ability to articulate his argument crushing all but the most expert debaters. He wrote a book called "God is not great" which became a best seller and that catapulted him into the "famous atheist" that he was.

I liked listening to him very much but I did not agree with his scathing remarks on religion. He was a clever man with great ability with language and very intimidating to many I am sure, but people tend to follow him like sheep. I guess it's that kind of "well he's smarter then me so he must be right" thinking, it happens a lot with people and even though he would have likely torn me to pieces in a debate about religion this has more to do with his command of the English language then anything else.

Apart from his views on religion I liked him very much though,, you can google his debates, very entertaining.

[Thakkar]

You're a primitive man on the savannah. You see something move out of the corner of your eye. You assume it's a hyena. You run. You live. If you assume it's the wind and you're wrong, you die. We carry the genes of the ones who ran. We are genetically hard wired to believe in living forces that we cannot see.

Thoughtful reasoning can overcome this hard wiring. The awakening comes to millions every year. Unless science and progress are stymied (and religious fundamentalists are attempting just that), the relentless march of science ensures more and more of us will awaken.

I'm a 6.

T

[Leung Falang]

I believe in God. This is a really good debate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9t6Fkhu_MA

[little mary sunshine]

Just returned from Rome. I was fortunate enough to attend the Christmas Eve Papal Mass,

being a believer works for me...........

[GAZZPA]

Great topic. The problem with is that people today think they know so much. I not attacking any individual person, just stating a fact. We are all better educated nowadays and we have huge amounts of information available to us everyday with technology. We have made strides in Science and generally society has fallen into the trap of believing that we know everything and therefore we can categorically say that God does not exist, why? Because we have no evidence.

This is understandable, and yet if we take Darwins theory of evolution, it is exactly that, a theory. We cannot prove that an animal changes it's kind because of it is true it takes millions of years and no one lives that long. There are peices of information that support the theory but they do not prove it. However, the theory of evolution is pretty much taught as fact in todays schools. I am not stating that it is not correct, in fact I do "believe" there is some truth in evolution, in other words I have "faith" in it.

Not too long ago people thought man could not fly and never would be able to fly. This was not the view of simpletons, everyone including scientists, scholars and highly educated individuals thought this. However today we would laugh at such a notion because we have planes and we now take them for granted. We then fall into the trap of believing we are much cleverer then society back then.

The fact is we probably aren't any smarter, not really. The general man in the street would never have conquered that feat of flight, it took exceptional, dedicated individuals to make it happen, we just stand on their shoulders.

So, today we all think we are so clever. most of us probably can't imagine what we will invent next, we probably think like the Victorians did and believe their is nothing left to invent. Which of course is total rubbish.

So, people today look at Science and technology as their answer to everything. I think people believe that Science will eventually have all the answers but it won't. it's just false. the danger i think is that people don't even need any particular proof of Science anymore, if the idea / theory comes from a clever person with plenty of letters after his / her name is is very quickly accepted as fact. For example, the Big Bang theory, no one knows if this is true, it is just a theory but how many people are "certain" that this is correct even though there is no proof? I suspect many, and that requires faith. Faith in Science.

I am not trying to evangelize here, I just think we are all heading towards too much "faith" in Science. We do not understand where the Earth, the Universe or anything else came from, we simply do not know. So, we guess and that requires faith. So, what is wrong with someone having faith is a different idea, i.e, believing in a God, a Creator?

From what I can see nothing at all. Perhaps people should be less "violently" apposed to people who have faith in God and start questioning their own beliefs a little more, even if they chose to remain atheist.

[Guest]

I choose to keep my own point on the faith scale to myself, which is I understand something many members would prefer we all did .... Though that begs the question, why does the question of faith arise so often on this forum.

I think a lot of atheists are frightened to admit that they are not 100% confident, and are nervous about that position; they're either looking for evidence to support their current position, or to contradict it before it is too late....

Let's face it - a one in a million chance of eternal damnation is not good odds....

SC

People are looking for reasoning of being. That's a very good thing. Also on this forun, there is people who think differently. For example before I moved to live in Asia (and got involved to these international forums), I thought that only fraction of US people, some extreme groups, do not believe in evolution. I was wrong.

Here people have more free time to think of life itself as many of us are out of the rat's feel. It's also interesting to learn how different people think and why they think the way they do.

I would be agnostic on that scale if the question would be real. For me it's similar to "Do you believe in magic?". I don't really, but wish to understand what is the mechanism behind the magic. I also wish to understand why some people do believe it as well as some people so strongly oppose it.

Religions and religious groups can give support for individual who can be part of something bigger. That's an important feeling for most of the people. But on the other hand, religions often give fear.. believe or you'll go to the hell. That's one element which is there to control people and take away their freedom of choice. Acting or believing out of fear is not really freedom, is it?

[CIHUAHUA]

Please close this thread, as its going to turn in to a group of hateful religious comments.

People have the right to practice any religion they choose. Respect it

I don't think it is about what I think about your beliefs but my beliefs. Anyone can practice any religion then want. Many religious people don't want their beliefs questioned for fear of losing theirs. So let's keep our right of freedom of belief and don't close the threat - I mean thread.

[Old Croc]

I notice a number of posters want this thread closed down.

Posters whom I know have very strong beliefs. I know this because they constantly bring up those

beliefs on this forum. Check "outside the box" if you have access.

Quite ironic that they want a thread with opposing beliefs censored.

[OmegaRacer]

I find it hard to find a number.

I used to be atheist until something in my life happened. An experience so real that what we call reality seemed like a small dream, and from that point on I just couldn't deny that there is something greater. After that experience, I devoured books after books on all sort of religious and spiritual topics, just trying to understand what actually had happened to me. I found many answers and I think I'm a better man due to it.

I can't call myself a believer, because that would mean that I assume something (an idea/belief) about reality to be true. For me that's not the case. It might sound arrogant, but I don't believe, I know. If you hit your finger with a hammer, people can tell you it's all in your head, but in the end you know better.

I'm not religious and I try to steer clear of superficial religious rituals. I find bits of truth in every religion, but don't follow any of them. The core thought is the same for all of them, the rest is a ritualistic and dogmatic burden that divides rather than unites . I don't like to use the word 'God' or refer to 'him' as a 'he', as it can mean so many things for different people and generally evokes the outdated images of the old bearded guy sitting on a throne in heaven.

If I had to call myself something, I would say I'm spiritual.

[belg]

look at all the misery , wars, hunger in

the world

i can blame one major thing for this: all the crap about a god or another belief causing all this and men misusing it for their power, greed, money, benefits

[orosee]

Gazpa, while your post was pleasant to read you should know that in science - quite different from our daily language - a "theory" is about as good as it gets. This is a common argument used by Creationists to cast doubt where there is none. To make it more confusing, a "law" is of a lesser order than a "theory". More accurate definitions on the Web, I'm just telling you because using the "theory" fallacy destroys all the good arguments you may have.

[Sabot]

I notice a number of posters want this thread closed down.

Posters whom I know have very strong beliefs. I know this because they constantly bring up those

beliefs on this forum. Check "outside the box" if you have access.

Quite ironic that they want a thread with opposing beliefs censored

I agree. Why can't there be a discussion with various viewpoints. If you don't like the views being expressed, don't read the thread...seems easy enough and better than complaining.

Being an atheist, we are often treated with contempt or prejudice when our views are given. Therefore, many atheists do not express their views.

[mimithewoof]

I'm a serious 'don't know', but have major problems with the concept that an all-knowing, all-seeing god is there for humanity.

BUT - I do believe there is much about our basic spirituality yet to be discovered, if only we'd go back to basics as regards the original messages of the few extraordinary humans who founded the world's major religions.

Unfortunately, all that seems to happen is that those coming later, for their own reasons, spin the messages to permit all kinds of unacceptable actions. For example. 'thou shalt not kill' is a pretty basic requirement in Christianity and Buddhism, but not when it doesn't suit the warmongers and those decimating the planet for gain.

I received Reiki training some years ago, and some of its results are inexplicable, especially when it's used on animals. Knowing it couldn't have been 'me' causing the effects was thought-provoking as to how much we humans don't yet understand about the possible existence of a spiritual realm.

But an all-loving God, NO. Maybe prayer is just a way of contacting a huge store of positivity. Just my take...

[uptheos]

Paul said to the Corinthians; 'do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God'

Doesn't look good for ex-pats.

[Sabot]

Gazpa, while your post was pleasant to read you should know that in science - quite different from our daily language - a "theory" is about as good as it gets. This is a common argument used by Creationists to cast doubt where there is none. To make it more confusing, a "law" is of a lesser order than a "theory". More accurate definitions on the Web, I'm just telling you because using the "theory" fallacy destroys all the good arguments you may have.

Agreed, let's not forget the "Heliocentric Theory". This is still called a theory but I doubt anyone would disagree with it. Don't let semantics get in the way of the truth.

[shaurene]

Please close this thread, as its going to turn in to a group of hateful religious comments.

People have the right to practice any religion they choose. Respect it

He has not condemned it or criticised it, read it again, he is just asking peoples believes.

[Arif Khalil]

A believer who believes that believing resolves most of my philosophical needs and dependency on humans. It makes me a member of the most freer world society and bounds me to respect the freedoms of everybody else and the environment.

[williamta20012]

I just have lot of trouble understanding what created god and what created that and am I even alive or just some kind of process

[GAZZPA]

@ notmyself, how has my statement been demolished? I have simply stated, if there is a God you win, if there isn't, you lose nothing, pray tell how that is demolished? If you choose from whichever gallery you wish, if he/she is there you win, if not, nothing to lose.

You say "if there is a god, you win, if there isn't, you lose nothing"

Tell this to parents of murdered Palestian kid, to mom of murdered Isrealy kid!

In 17th century, men like me were burned alive by Catholics, I doubt that it was fun for the people who were burned alive.

Your quote is simply wrong.

The author of the quote you posted, sees religion as a harmless, fun game. It is anything but.

When it comes to religeon, we all lose. Big time.

This is such a weak argument.

You cannot blame religion for the act of some crazy individuals, this is called generalizing. There are over 2 billion Chrisitans in the world today and 1.6 billion muslims, (over 50% of the worlds population) the vast majority of which do not condone violence. The religion is not to blame, these are the acts of men.

Also, we are doing a good job of killing each other with non religious wars as well,, how many people have been killed over oil or any number of natural resources or territories,, what do you have to say about those killings? Who is to blame for those? It's pretty simple, it's man who is to blame.

Basically, religion is about living in peace to most people and treating fellow man with respect. The flaw in this is that man has a free will and we kill each other for any reason we can find. You should not tarnish religion as a whole as an evil entity because of lunatic suicide bombers etc,,,

So, we do not all lose big time.

[klauskunkel]

I respect any religion for what they are: Ideas, Ideals, Philosophies, Way of Life.

I despise religious institutions: Churches, Temples, Synagogues, Mosques...corrupt bunch of patriarchic, authoritarian, demagogic bull crap. Every one of them.

[falangadang]

You die ,end of road ,there is nothing .

That refutes the laws of physics in that energy can never be destroyed,.. only transmuted.

It further conflicts with Einsteins Theory of Relativity and his Unified Field theory which says that everything in the universe, even consciousness is connected.

You don't need to be religious or subscribe to any common religion or beliefs to find G_d. Start looking my friend iclaudius, you might be amazed at what you will find!

[orosee]

I'd call myself a 6 leaning towards a 7. My pinay girlfriend probably a 2 or 3, absolute belief in Jesus but no interest in church, prayers or preaching. She knows the Golden Rule and that's really the extent of her religion. She knows about Dawkins but no surprise, doesn't like him.

So far for me, no problems. With a baby arriving in 6 months however, I need to negotiate a few good compromises.

She's not into nonsense like Santa Claus and tells that to other kids, I find that ironic. These kids react with such honest indignation that I can much better understand how a religious believer feels when confronted with Darwin, Dawkins or Hitchens.

Personally, I refuse to respect a belief "out of the box" as much as I refuse to respect a pedophile or a child/wife beater. Please note that I'm not equating or comparing here. I don't have to respect everything, I don't even have to tolerate everything blindly.

[Dimpys Dad]

Believer, I am, in Jesus Christ. I personally can't quite grasp the full concept of an absolute omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God. The ability to understand that concept transcends the mortal's ability to comprehend. However, Christ is God become man so he could demonstrate to man on our level what and who God is. That he wants all men to come to Him but is not forcing anyone to do so.

This thread is good. It allows those willing to participate the opportunity to express their beliefs, agree or disagree with others and discuss on whatever level they choose. But in all, it causes all participants to explore their own beliefs or views and hopefully question themselves and others and look for the truth. I believe that there are absolute truths that are given by the omnipotent God, and when my own actions are in alignment with those truths my life is always made better.

I look for peace. Peace of mind and peace with my fellow man but most importantly, peace with God.

[GAZZPA]

...

It is quite clear what side of the fence you're on. No need to belabor the point. Thanks.

I think I would describe myself as an agnostic; or perhaps verging on an atheist.

From my observations, whether God exists or not, you'll benefit in believing in him.

And for sure, if God is omniscient, omnipresent and merciful, then not believing in him will not be a hindrance to entrance to the kingdom of heaven. Unless God is a petty, vindictive, unchristian sort of bloke, which few religions seem to believe that he is...

But for all that, I don't believe in God - I suppose for the absence of a coherent and convincing theory. And also a faith in the absence of the supernatural.

But I'm 99.9999% confident that will not stand me in bad stead at the final day of reckoning

SC

According to Chrisitan belief God will accept anyone and everyone into Heaven as long as you confess your sins (no matter how bad, he will forgive you) and accept him as God and live according to his teachings.

If you chose not to do that then he will not know you and you will not go to Heaven on the day of reckoning.

[trihent]

I would be a 1. However not because I believe in God but because I believe in ALL GODS. Something that monotheists don't understand is that if you accept the possible existence of 1 god you open the door to all of them (whether you've heard of them or not). This is polytheist stance is actually in the Bible (Genesis) in the fall from Eden. (forgotten the verse #) "They have eaten of the knowledge so they must be cast out before they eat of the tree of life and become the same as us." (paraphrased) Please note the "us" in the text found in all common versions.

[ggt]

Did God create man...or man create God?

The problem with religion...is...one has to give up worship of one's self...to make room for a high being...

Most difficult for most people...

Is it my turn to buy a round of drinks?

[GAZZPA]

I wonder of those that don't believe in God, when you are child/loved one is diagnosed with cancer and the doctors say there is nothing that they can do, would you then pray to God?

I would seek another doctor immediately.

There are many uncurable illnesses. That is part of life. Praying to imaginary man in the sky, or sacrificing a sheep is something that educated, sane person does not do.

It is understandable that people pray to their gods in remote tribal areas in Africa. There are no schools, people have no educAtion in these parts of the world, so it is understandable people there belive in supernatural.

So, only remote people in African tribes with no education should believe in God? So what excuse do you give to highly educated people who believe in God? There are millions, maybe billions of them.

By the way, I also would go and seek additional medical advice, basically you would do anything you can to try and save your child or loved one. But, where did the ability come from for man to cure disease? Have you thought that perhaps everything we can achieve is indeed a gift form god and that's why we all have different talents, so that we can work together and form a balanced society?

This is what Catholics and Christians believe (probably other religions as well)