Please close this thread, as its going to turn in to a group of hateful religious comments.

People have the right to practice any religion they choose. Respect it

How about the rights of freedom of speech???????

I wonder of those that don't believe in God, when you are child/loved one is diagnosed with cancer and the doctors say there is nothing that they can do, would you then pray to God?

Praying to God means you think God exists, and therefore you would have to believe God gave your child or loved one cancer in the first place.

That being so, I think the very least God could do would be to bloody take it away again.

So a 4 for yourself on the proffered scale?

I choose to keep my own point on the faith scale to myself, which is I understand something many members would prefer we all did .... Though that begs the question, why does the question of faith arise so often on this forum.

I think a lot of atheists are frightened to admit that they are not 100% confident, and are nervous about that position; they're either looking for evidence to support their current position, or to contradict it before it is too late....

Let's face it - a one in a million chance of eternal damnation is not good odds....

SC

I know Christopher Hitchens is quoted often, but.......................

“Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. ... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated”

He later referred to the idea of heaven, as being a 'Celestial North Korea'

Why is he often quoted? That does not sound convincing to me, so I am guessing, it's because the quoter agrees with the quotee.

SC

Over the last few years, I have become convinced of the power of faith, and the benefits of adherence to the basic principles of some of the world's major religions. I can't deny the perils of sectarianism.

None of that has any bearing on whether God exists. Or whether many gods and spirits exist. I leave that up to Him. or them.

SC

Yes, I do believe in God, the reason why I'm in the right path, the reason why I always wanted to do good things.

Please close this thread, as its going to turn in to a group of hateful religious comments.

People have the right to practice any religion they choose. Respect it

Christopher Hitchens:

Religion poisons everyhing!

So a 4 for yourself on the proffered scale?

I choose to keep my own point on the faith scale to myself, which is I understand something many members would prefer we all did .... Though that begs the question, why does the question of faith arise so often on this forum.

Not only this forum, in general. Could be because as time goes by more and more people are getting fed up with theocratic encroachment on free society.

As long as believers can accept that i am not one of them, and dont want to "convert" me in any way...

i can accept them as believers, however silly their custom seem to be (for me).

Please close this thread, as its going to turn in to a group of hateful religious comments.

People have the right to practice any religion they choose. Respect it

Christopher Hitchens:

Religion poisons everyhing!

Is Christopher Hitchins the new gospel? People seem to take his word without question.

SC

I know Christopher Hitchens is quoted often, but.......................

“Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. ... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated”

He later referred to the idea of heaven, as being a 'Celestial North Korea'

Why is he often quoted? That does not sound convincing to me, so I am guessing, it's because the quoter agrees with the quotee.

SC

Well, he is also quoted often because he is witty and sharp as a tack, brilliantly well spoken and coming from someone who was not indoctrinated as a kid, let's face it, Hitchens was right.

I know Christopher Hitchens is quoted often, but.......................

“Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. ... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated”

He later referred to the idea of heaven, as being a 'Celestial North Korea'

Why is he often quoted? That does not sound convincing to me, so I am guessing, it's because the quoter agrees with the quotee.

SC

Well, he is also quoted often because he is witty and sharp as a tack, brilliantly well spoken and coming from someone who was not indoctrinated as a kid, let's face it, Hitchens was right.

Such faith is touching. Though I don't believe it's particularly constructive.

No, I'm wrong. That faith is the same as the faith of the Nazis, or the Jesuits of the Spanish Inquisition, It is dangerous.

Anyway, believe whatever guru you like. Or alternatively, form your own opinion and present it, rather than mouthpiecing for others

SC

I know Christopher Hitchens is quoted often, but.......................

Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. ... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated

He later referred to the idea of heaven, as being a 'Celestial North Korea'

Why is he often quoted? That does not sound convincing to me, so I am guessing, it's because the quoter agrees with the quotee.

SC

Hitchens is often quoted because his particular reflection on a very old question is the only one remembered.

Martin Luther in 1546....

But since the devil's bride, Reason, that pretty whore, comes in and thinks she's wise, and what she says, what she thinks, is from the Holy Spirit, who can help us, then? Not judges, not doctors, no king or emperor, because [reason] is the Devil's greatest whore.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Martin_Luther

Same thing from different sides.

Please close this thread, as its going to turn in to a group of hateful religious comments.

People have the right to practice any religion they choose. Respect it

Christopher Hitchens:

Religion poisons everyhing!

Is Christopher Hitchins the new gospel? People seem to take his word without question.

SC

No no,

I question everything. But I happen to agree with Hitchens on this. Every atheist does.

I very must agree with and admire Richard Dawkins, brilliant scientist, and atheist.

Most misery and suffering in the world is caused by one religion or another.

Even Buddhists, usually considered the least hateful and tolernt religion.. But ask Muslims in Myanmar, how they feel about Budhists people passinately attacking and killing men, women, and children, just because they are Muslim minority in Myanmar.

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Edited January 3, 201412 yr by valgehiir

I'm a 4: Pure agnostic.

Basically, I wouldn't be too surprised either way. But I'm inclined to think that if there is a god, it is in no way related to any earthly religion.

You'll need to explain to me again where Buddha taught that Muslims should be murdered,piled into trucks and so forth. I don't blame the bank of England for every robbery involving pound notes.

SC

You'll need to explain to me again where Buddha taught that Muslims should be murdered,piled into trucks and so forth. I don't blame the bank of England for every robbery involving pound notes.

SC

St. Cowboy, take it easy man. This wasn't intended to be a debate on every poster's point that is disagreed with. It was simply a curious question on whether TV'rs are more atheistic or religious.

It is quite clear what side of the fence you're on. No need to belabor the point. Thanks.

I know Christopher Hitchens is quoted often, but.......................

“Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. ... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated”

He later referred to the idea of heaven, as being a 'Celestial North Korea'

Why is he often quoted? That does not sound convincing to me, so I am guessing, it's because the quoter agrees with the quotee.

SC

Because he was a brilliant man.

Read his books!

Maybe search Youtube, there are many long clips, an hour long debates, usually held in universities, Hitchens debating religous person. These debates are hugely entertaining.

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I know Christopher Hitchens is quoted often, but.......................

“Faith is the surrender of the mind, it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other animals. It's our need to believe and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. ... Out of all the virtues, all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated”

He later referred to the idea of heaven, as being a 'Celestial North Korea'

Why is he often quoted? That does not sound convincing to me, so I am guessing, it's because the quoter agrees with the quotee.

SC

Well, he is also quoted often because he is witty and sharp as a tack, brilliantly well spoken and coming from someone who was not indoctrinated as a kid, let's face it, Hitchens was right.

Such faith is touching. Though I don't believe it's particularly constructive.

No, I'm wrong. That faith is the same as the faith of the Nazis, or the Jesuits of the Spanish Inquisition, It is dangerous.

Anyway, believe whatever guru you like. Or alternatively, form your own opinion and present it, rather than mouthpiecing for others

SC

Admiring somebody is not faith. Faith is blind belief in supernatural.

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

...

...

Well, he is also quoted often because he is witty and sharp as a tack, brilliantly well spoken and coming from someone who was not indoctrinated as a kid, let's face it, Hitchens was right.

Such faith is touching. Though I don't believe it's particularly constructive.

No, I'm wrong. That faith is the same as the faith of the Nazis, or the Jesuits of the Spanish Inquisition, It is dangerous.

Anyway, believe whatever guru you like. Or alternatively, form your own opinion and present it, rather than mouthpiecing for others

SC

Admiring somebody is not faith. Faith is blind belief in supernatural.

Sent from my C6802 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Or otherwise. Personally, I have blind faith in all this electron stuff. I've never seen one, but blokes tell me they have, and the light bulbs light up, the sun rises, and the little birds cheep. If I'd gone to a good madrassa, no doubt I could have related all those things to God.

I have complete faith that things unless otherwise supported will fall downwards. Many people believed that before Newton, and not many more, after him.

Anyway, believe what you want.

Quote whom you want, though your own views may be more convincing.

But if you want to avoid conflict, I suggest that you avoid rubbishing the views of others

SC

There are some who have had the opportunity to see what is on the other side. Searching "near death experience" or "NDE" on youtube or elsewhere yields many reports (of varying degrees of credibility) from people who have died and come back. Most have had these experiences during surgeries where their actual physical death was proven and documented by the medical staff present. These reports may be the closest thing we have to a proof of what is beyond.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSjzY0s0SM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B4b1hlU7Pg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRk9_dK7Quo

Edited January 3, 201412 yr by greytown

I reckon most people don't know what stand to take until they hit a major crisis...then the decision pops out

OMG, god help me, god spare me, there is no god

That is called cultural conditioning since birth. I do it myself, but as a knee-jerk reaction to a situation.

You die ,end of road ,there is nothing .

There is anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

----------

As far as the OP's question, the rabbit hole goes much deeper than the question of whether there is a "God" or not. As someone who has been asking himself that same question for over 1/2 a century, let me put you on a little different path. There is no question that there is an "ultimate being" or multiple races of what we would consider "ultimate beings" based on our limited knowledge of the universe. The same way an insect would consider humans as being ultimate beings. The real question is whether we should consider these beings as Gods or perhaps relatives.

When you consider that there are over 5200 separate deities worshiped on the planet today, who is to say which is valid or which is bogus. The only historical evidence we posses is the writings of our ancestors concerning their individual fables, legends and myths. The common denominator throughout all of the writings is the influence from "great heavenly beings", steering the culture in a particular direction. My belief is that religion has been confused for spirituality. The ancient teachings tell us that we are to love each other and live in harmony as a community. This message has been bastardized into worship me or you will go to hell. Let's not forget that the winners always write the history books and we know that the Christian bible has gone through multiple revisions down through the centuries. The greatest hack-job being made by Emperor Constantine who removed over 34 separate chapters from the teachings. The point is, the revisions were made to support an agenda by the powers that be in that time in history, so what was really conveyed in those ancient teachings and who were these heavenly beings? Even the included chapters were redacted as it turns out. Instructions on exactly how to commune with "God" were omitted from several chapters.

Examining the question from a scientific perspective, developments in Quantum physics as related to consciousness are leading scientists to re-examine just what reality really is. The Particle theory of matter is being replaced with Wave theory, which opens mathematical alternatives not possible until Particle theory. The pretext is that reality, as we know it, is nothing more than a manifestation of our consciousness on a moment by moment basis. We live in a holographic, metaphysical universe, comprised of nothing but energy. This became evident when scientists going back to Einstein realized that a human presence during laboratory experiments actually changed the results of the experiments, meaning that humans actually influence the physical world around them. In this context, is a concept of "God" really applicable or is it just another construct of the matrix?

If you peel back the layers, remove the dogmatic agendas and applying scientific theory, existence is our consciousness within the confines of the universe as we know it. This physical world is a metaphysical matrix, in which our consciousness is placed to mature. Our individual consciousness must mature to a certain level in order to be able to progress to the next level of consciousness, or the next vibrational level. Our consciousness returns to this place for as many physical lifetimes as required for this maturation process to complete. The philosophy which most closely conveys these theories is Buddhism.

There is a lot of material on the net concerning new age spirituality which rejects the generally accepted dogmatic approach to religion. There is much to be said for the old adages of Positive Thinking and the Power of Attraction as they are turning out to be true.

Which god are you talking about? Ahura Mazda? Vulcan? Hanuman?

...

It is quite clear what side of the fence you're on. No need to belabor the point. Thanks.

I think I would describe myself as an agnostic; or perhaps verging on an atheist.

From my observations, whether God exists or not, you'll benefit in believing in him.

And for sure, if God is omniscient, omnipresent and merciful, then not believing in him will not be a hindrance to entrance to the kingdom of heaven. Unless God is a petty, vindictive, unchristian sort of bloke, which few religions seem to believe that he is...

But for all that, I don't believe in God - I suppose for the absence of a coherent and convincing theory. And also a faith in the absence of the supernatural.

But I'm 99.9999% confident that will not stand me in bad stead at the final day of reckoning

SC

You'll need to explain to me again where Buddha taught that Muslims should be murdered,piled into trucks and so forth. I don't blame the bank of England for every robbery involving pound notes.

SC

No, I don't need to explain you anything.

But you for my own amuzment I'll answer.

I have no clue what Buddha, something or somebody that most likely never existed, taught.

I like to read, incl fiction. But ancient boring fairy tales about a man in sky, talking snake, magic underware, bunch of virgins waiting for a suicide bomber in skies, being born again in next life as a kangaroo.. No thanks!

But I watch the news, and I read and watched reports covering murderous rampage in Myanmar in 2012, these murders took place ONLY on religous grounds.

Here is the YT clip about this mass murder:

There will always be God, until you rid all the people of the thought of God, because where just one lonely sole sits thinking about God, God will exist.

I'm a white guy, I eat pigs, I don't drink, I only get down on the ground when I've dropped something under the lounge, but I've read books and respect that diversity is what makes us special. Science is getting pretty farken close now, holy........

I'm in good company

http://www.nobeliefs.com/freethinkers.htm

You'll need to explain to me again where Buddha taught that Muslims should be murdered,piled into trucks and so forth. I don't blame the bank of England for every robbery involving pound notes.

SC

No, I don't need to explain you anything.

But you for my own amuzment I'll answer.

I have no clue what Buddha, something or somebody that most likely never existed, taught.

I like to read, incl fiction. But ancient boring fairy tales about a man in sky, talking snake, magic underware, bunch of virgins waiting for a suicide bomber in skies, being born again in next life as a kangaroo.. No thanks!

But I watch the news, and I read and watched reports covering murderous rampage in Myanmar in 2012, these murders took place ONLY on religous grounds.

Here is the YT clip about this mass murder:

I'm not sure that you can reasonably ascribe to buddhism every crime committed by buddhists against muslims, even if the buddhists commited those crimes because the victims were muslims. I doubt that you would accept responsibility, as an atheist, for all Stalin's crimes, or those of Mao, against the respective religions in their countries.

In my experience, my more pious friends have been better behaved, in a secular sense, than my less so. It's still not enough to make me believe, but I can see some benefits.

SC

So a 4 for yourself on the proffered scale?

I choose to keep my own point on the faith scale to myself, which is I understand something many members would prefer we all did .... Though that begs the question, why does the question of faith arise so often on this forum.

Not only this forum, in general. Could be because as time goes by more and more people are getting fed up with theocratic encroachment on free society.

Or maybe…. just a thought here…. this mythical 'Free Society' is getting fed up of theocratic arguments against things such as the consumer society..

The greatest hack-job being made by Emperor Constantine who removed over 34 separate chapters from the teachings.

I am aware of this, yet I never researched the missing parts or wether they still exist.

Would be very interesting to read those.

We live in a holographic, metaphysical universe, comprised of nothing but energy. This became evident when scientists going back to Einstein realized that a human presence during laboratory experiments actually changed the results of the experiments, meaning that humans actually influence the physical world around them.

Hm, i think you are referring to quantum-mechanics, not Einstein.

It think it is actually a common misunderstanding of quantum-mechanics, that mere human presence changes the outcome of these experiments (Copenhagen-interpretation).

The concept of of a holographic, illusional Universe is still valid though.

philosophy which most closely conveys these theories is Buddhism.

Taking also neuroscience into account, i find buddhism quite remarkable as well.

One just needs to be careful not to fall into the 'new age-trap' and interpret writings into scientific theory.

There is an abundance of people who support their ideas with quantum-mechanics, yet failing to adhere to the actual science.

Kinda funny when buddhism is making the transition from religion to current science the easiest, yet creationists are trying to make the argument for genesis with the big bang etc.

By the way, I find this new atheism vs christian fundamentalism a bit bemusing.

Either this was never properly debated in the anglo-american history or it is simply provoked by the ignorance of creationists.

It's seems to be kind of a non-issue elsewhere.