CAPO will use combined forces against Bangkok shutdown

[noitom]

Death penalty? For demonstrating in Thailand.

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post and the reply to it.

[agam]

It appears that foreign Red apologists are losing their marbles more than usual now, if this discussion is anything to go by. This is probably a good sign, the reality of this movement is finally beginning to sink in. Its forebears resisted dictatorship in the 1970's and many paid the price (that generation of patriots is also on Rajdamnoen stage today). The cord runs through the movement that stopped Gen. Suchinda's rise to power in 1992, even though it was after an election and would have been perfectly legal. Good Thai patriots of both these earlier movements are lending their efforts to this one, indisputably by far the largest mass protests in this country's history. That same cord (the impetus of liberty I'll call it) runs back through Seri Thai, and earlier. In my opinion.

And yes I know that some '70's students side with Redshirts. So?

The movements of '73 - '76 and '92 were peaceful marches and gatherings like today, but nowhere near approaching the numbers. Both were crushed horribly. Now we have these threats from the appropriately named CAPO, and reports of provincial police forces being brought into Bangkok. Suchinda similarly moved in army troops from outside Bangkok, where they were isolated from news and were lied to about an uprising against the monarchy. There was even a brief revival of the Village Scouts (or something like it, I watched them training in Lumpini). I wonder who will play the role of Krathing Daeng this time (Red Gaurs)?

Frankly I can't believe some of the moronic stuff I've seen upthread. "Shoot their legs" and "send them out of the country" etc. What is wrong with some of you? Yet these types will throw the word "fascist" around with wild abandon. This is a Thai-style Satyagraha, and if you don't stand on truth then just sit down and shut up.

[CDNinKS]

Both sides are playing a game of brinkmanship and it all came about because of a very undemocratic amnesty attempt followed by an illegal rejection of a senior court's decision.

I'm obviously not as well read as many of you on this subject, but I was under the impression that the Amnesty bill was tabled by the Government in power, passed by a majority of seats in parliament, but shot down by the senate/court. This is exactly how the system works in Canada, who I assume most of you would agree is a democratic society. There are numerous bills that have been introduced by the current Canadian government that have been struck down by the Supreme courts as unconstitutional. But, and it is a big BUT, there is a "not withstanding" clause in the charter that allows the Government to basically ignore the court and pass the bill into law.

Again, I'm not supporting either side in this battle, just trying to point out that Thailand is not alone in having a democratically elected majority government that gets it own way on controversial subjects. It is obvious to me that Thailand is simply not ready for democracy, being ruled by the military or a monarchy seems the only thing that Thai's respect.

[smedly]

so we are going to have millions of people actively protesting in BKK that will be arrested and put to death according this Thaksin puppet

[animatic]

We have two sides, both calling each other corrupt and threatening 'dire measures' unless, of course, the other side bows to their moral and nationalistic supremacy. Really. Really?

Please stop insulting the the local and international community's intelligence -- this is all about control and who posseses it.

Nobody who matters is being fooled here or abroad. If you two whinging and grasping children cannot stop fighting, the military is going to give both of you a time out, and which is horribly tragic for your nation. it will mean you have not learned how to 'play nice' with each other. In a top-down society, it is just too easy to manipulate the masses, up north, down south, and in Krung Thep, too. In the darkness of ignorance, those two pristine incarnadines of freedom, Greed and Egomania, mate and give birth to their darling child... Chaos...

Is this the child you give as a gift to the future of your people? Is it? Show us! There is often talk about Thai sophistication and beauty, and that is no lie, so...show us your strength. We know you have it. Show it! Thai people are better than this. I see it every day. I know it with every kind and polite gesture, I hear it in your music, and I taste it in your food. I see it reflected in the beautiful eyes of my kind wife. I smell it in the sweet water winds of Songkran.

Become more Thai, not less. Be an example.

You have an opportunity to lead in many ways...please do not disappoint anyone, especially my unborn daughter. You are making her world.

Please be careful with that. Please.

Very sincerely,

Me

Yes this is about control, agreed.

Parliamentary systems evolved to peacefully resolve issues of control between the urban bourgeoise and the outsiders of the countryside to include the landed gentry. Politics, elections and the electoral process that produce parliaments are thus about the peaceful exercise of legitimate power and of attaining a reasonable balance in how the resources of the society are to be distributed.

The side that rejects this peaceful parliamentary process rejects progress itself.

In Thailand feudalism remains strong and its lords and barons remain all power consuming, obstinate. Their lieges continue to follow them devoutly, in this instance through the streets and to the gates of hell. It is they who reject the whole notion of modernism, i.e., the peaceful and orderly institutional (parliamentary) resolution of the predictable, normal and ordinary disputes that arise over the sharing of resources and doing it by means of a regularly expressed popular mandate.

Elite rule by the anointed few is at the core of the feudal idea as we know it from history. It's an idea whose time passed long ago in favor of institutionalized democracy, i.e., constitutionalism. Thailand is failing because it continues to have two directly contradictory institutions of society, namely, elitist and hierarchical feudalism vs democratic and egalitarian constitutionalism.

Feudalism in the modern period is called fascism and it's a very uncomfortable thing to find one's self witnessing it firsthand.

And in this case we have two sets of interlocking layers of modern-feudal, proto-fascists fighting over the trough.

Some elements are actually democratic, though not completely understood it appears,

others modern communists in Democratic drag, others on both sides amoral opportunists,

and throw in some young sociopaths, who just like a good set battle to make face as warriors.

But one side is run by Skype from abroad,

and has purchased the government by controlling the rice farmers votes as a block

through their distribution network puyais and made a total hash of it.

To the tune of 800 million loses so far, among other mis-managed projects.

That has given an opening to the cry of 'utterly corrupt mismanagement that is breaking the bank'.

Even the bankers are saying this as loudly as they dare, or in code words that mean the same.

And while impeachment exists, if the parliament is completely purchased in a neo-feudal manner,

there is no chance of a reset except through the courts.

If the courts are ignored by the parliament and government,

then there is deadlock, but the massive loses continue.

Loses which successive generations will inherit as high interest debt.

It is quite clear yet another constitution, writen from scratch,

has ineffective control on political machines. That is Thailand's boggieman.

So the question comes as:

How to get it right, when the current powers that be refuse to allow that to happen

as they are profiting from it themselves, and seem oblivious to the consequences?

All for the ability to keep controlling the rice farmers vote under a shiny patina of being

their best friends and old school feudal benefactor.

The problem is it doesn't work in a slack economy.

And the rotten rice is hitting the fan, and not the market.

[londonthai]

It appears that foreign Red apologists are losing their marbles ... shut up.

As with pad in 2006, 2008 and now, it's about authoritarian, pro-military, antidemocratic, xenophobic, feudalistic ideas. So far this protest was peaceful, but the rhetoric from the stage was different, including military songs. Protesters well know, that army and bloodshed is behind them, if the royalists decide so

[Publicus]

so we are going to have millions of people actively protesting in BKK that will be arrested and put to death according this Thaksin puppet

Wrong again.

The government is facing an openly declared civil insurrection, the announced purpose of which is to overthrow the legitimate democratically elected government. The present means of overthrow are to prevent a scheduled election and to forcefully paralyze the capital. The purpose is to establish an arbitrarily and whimsically appointed People's Council from among the traditional yet unnamed elites to rule absolutely over the nation.

Any legitimately elected government anywhere has the inherent right to defend itself and to preserve and protect itself. The legitimately elected government of Thailand has the obligation to the nation and its people to defend and preserve itself in the name of the state, the nation and its people, and to preserve the electoral process that produced it and which is invoked again to determine who shall govern.

To be clear, a revolution moves society forward whilst the forceful imposition of feudalism - in modern terms fascism - is a giant fall backward into the abyss.

[A1Str8]

So if an arrest warrant has been already issued against this Suthep then why don't they go and get him. When this country is going to start walking the talk, maybe then it is going to make progress.

[smedly]

This government was elected through policies and promises to a certain portion of the electorate - putting it in other words "they were bought" Stronger rules and regulations to prevent this type of vote buying must be put in place before any elections are held, a line has to be drawn between what is reasonable and downright populist policy making and promises in order to win an election

Lets take it to the extreme - suppose during the last election the Democrats declared they would give every Thai voting citizen free rice for two years, would that be considered reasonable - well no it wouldn't

The Rice scheme - the 100k first car scheme - the free tablet computers were all election promises to lure/buy votes and as it turns out has after two years left the government finances in tatters to the extent they need to borrow 2 trillion baht to support them - in the end all of the Thai people will end up paying for these outrageous schemes for generations

Not only that but spending their main focus in office on amnesty for one convicted criminal abroad, trying every way possible to push through policies and charter changes that eventually were denied by the courts and the people after which they then announced that they refused to recognise the courts

Is it any wonder how the current situation has come about, I'm not sure Suthep has the answers or is the correct solution or indeed if in the end he will end up just as bad as PTP but something needed to happen

I would also criticize the EC if they intend to financially support the rice scheme as it was very obviously a vote buying scheme to help PTP win the last election

Also when in the last 2 years has PTP released true and accurate figures of were the rice scheme is financially - never, I have a big problem with that, alarms started ringing for me when they wanted an off books 2 trillion baht loan

[Ricardo]

For such a serious crime as criminally trying to overthrow an elected government, the police and the army should surround the protesters, truck them to Isaan, lock them for 6 months inside a rehab camp,... supervised by the red shirts

That should be ok to calm them down a bit

A farang section could be added too

Except Suthep, of course, who should vanish from this planet forever...

Sent from my HTC One using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Mass-arrests and concentration-camps, political-assassination and xenophobic-fervour, No Thanks !

When these things do occasionally happen in Thailand, when Muslims are carted-away or political-agents attacked/murdered while campaigning, when ex-PMs homes are shot at or grenades thrown at protesters, when people are shot-at & gassed when protesting peacefully, when convicted-criminals remain unarrested because they're in government, most of us condemn these things.

They are the exception, not the rule, this isn't yet Burma, although some pro-government supporters might not like the fact.

I'm not sure how the current problems will be resolved, but threats from government-bodies like CAPO don't help, nor do posts (from whomever) advocating Cambodian-style violence.

[MaxLee]

"CAPO to use combined forces against capital shutdown"

That means Red Shirts are getting ready to kick Anti-government people's behinds...

[Bkungbank]

Death penalty should apply on those corrupted politician make billions of baht

[NoshowJones]

Well done CAPO, just hope you are sincere in what you intend to do.

[NoshowJones]

This is exactly what suthep wants. he wants blood in the streets again just like 3 - 4 years ago. he was the cause of it then and he will be the cause of it now.

I thought Thaksin and the red shirts were the cause of that. Not knowing much about Thai politics, maybe I am wrong.

[gerry1011]

Death penalty should apply on those corrupted politician make billions of baht

Luckily death penalty already applies to those who commit treason.

I hope they will get Suthep soon...

[theslime]

Death penalty should apply on those corrupted politician make billions of baht

Luckily death penalty already applies to those who commit treason.

I hope they will get Suthep soon...

You think this is a game, what with your idea about interment camps guarded by Reds, get alife.

[smedly]

actually if any group committed treason in the last 2 years it is more likely to have been PTP - they have worked relentlessly at destroying Thailand and would have succeeded it it hadn't been for the current protests stopping them in their tracks, unfortunately they haven't done the honourable thing and stepped down in shame, I only hope that everything they have done is fully exposed to the Thai people and they are brought to justice

Treason = The betrayal of one's own country and it's people

Edited January 5, 2014 by smedly

[EyesWideOpen]

Civil war here we come.......Time to stock up on food.

[bkkgooner]

This seize the capital is either going to be another wet fart like all of SUthep's V for Victory Days so far or there will be blood flowing in the streets like 2010 all over again.

Still people on this forum siding with this lunatic who wants an unelected council of 400 with 100 of its members being selected by HIM to rule the country. Reform should take place in a democratic system not be decided upon by 400 people who have all benifitted directly from corruption. The undemocratic amnesty bill was shelved because of the protests and that is where it should have ended and it certainly should have gone no further than when the snap election was called. Anyone who is blocking the election going ahead is supporting fascism, reform the country together in parliament.

[pxlgirl]

meh... all this is just virtual dick-fencing. The current government does't have the balls to intervene, but when the big boys with tanks and toys come out, the other fan club will join the party and play with some fire.

[smedly]

This seize the capital is either going to be another wet fart like all of SUthep's V for Victory Days so far or there will be blood flowing in the streets like 2010 all over again.

Still people on this forum siding with this lunatic who wants an unelected council of 400 with 100 of its members being selected by HIM to rule the country. Reform should take place in a democratic system not be decided upon by 400 people who have all benifitted directly from corruption. The undemocratic amnesty bill was shelved because of the protests and that is where it should have ended and it certainly should have gone no further than when the snap election was called. Anyone who is blocking the election going ahead is supporting fascism, reform the country together in parliament.

In the history of all democracies they have all had unelected leadership simply because they have to start somewhere and transform - the problem is that all democracies need time to develop and iron out the rules that will eventually lead to a good foundation, for some reason Thailand seems to have difficulty reaching that point, The Thaksin regime has been in power here for many years and is constantly and wilfully feeding of the good Thai people, that is evidence enough to know were most of the blame is for this stagnation.

PTP proved beyond any doubt that they were intent on dismantling what little foundation existed and to continue to suck the people dry for their own gains, some would say if the people are stupid enough to keep electing these thieves then they only have themselves to blame - I disagree, they need to be stopped by force if necessary and exposed for what they are.

An unelected council if done correctly and made up of the right people can move this country forward to a more solid foundation that will be for the betterment of all the people and the country, democracy isn't working here (history doesn't lie) as it is so it must be changed

You can preach the elected argument all you like but it is obvious it is not working

Yes the question is why didn't they do this in 2009 - I believe the simple answer is they didn't know how, now PTP has educated the people and exposed what needs fixing, they could even ask for outside help to make sure all the holes are plugged making way for a government that can actually serve all the people and do what it needs to do within the bounds of the law and a good solid constitution that will bind them with rules and regulations and force them to be open and accountable to all of the people

Thai people don't realise that out of all the SE Asian countries they have moved little beyond Burma and Cambodia, they are not even in the same league as Japan Singapore Malaysia and Taiwan they have been left far behind and are the hub of no progress, they have no products of their own - name me one car that or motorbike that they make and can call their own = Zero

They are a cheap manufacturing labour camp for all the other SE Asia countries that have actually progressed over the years, without them they would be nothing and be doing nothing of their own except growing rice and rubber

[bkkfaranguy]

This government was elected through policies and promises to a certain portion of the electorate - putting it in other words "they were bought" Stronger rules and regulations to prevent this type of vote buying must be put in place before any elections are held, a line has to be drawn between what is reasonable and downright populist policy making and promises in order to win an election

Lets take it to the extreme - suppose during the last election the Democrats declared they would give every Thai voting citizen free rice for two years, would that be considered reasonable - well no it wouldn't

The Rice scheme - the 100k first car scheme - the free tablet computers were all election promises to lure/buy votes and as it turns out has after two years left the government finances in tatters to the extent they need to borrow 2 trillion baht to support them - in the end all of the Thai people will end up paying for these outrageous schemes for generations

Not only that but spending their main focus in office on amnesty for one convicted criminal abroad, trying every way possible to push through policies and charter changes that eventually were denied by the courts and the people after which they then announced that they refused to recognise the courts

Is it any wonder how the current situation has come about, I'm not sure Suthep has the answers or is the correct solution or indeed if in the end he will end up just as bad as PTP but something needed to happen

I would also criticize the EC if they intend to financially support the rice scheme as it was very obviously a vote buying scheme to help PTP win the last election

Also when in the last 2 years has PTP released true and accurate figures of were the rice scheme is financially - never, I have a big problem with that, alarms started ringing for me when they wanted an off books 2 trillion baht loan

Ahh Spicoli, in every democratic government you always support the people that vote for you, that is not vote buying. The rice scheme, the computors, the minimum wage increase, the first time car buyers program where all programs to to try and improve the lives of the poor people in Thailand who helped put these people in offfice. Granted the programs are miss managed but that is typical with any Governmant on the planet. So really what you are saying is that you want to keep the people poor and not offer them any opportunities to improve there lives!

[bkkfaranguy]

actually if any group committed treason in the last 2 years it is more likely to have been PTP - they have worked relentlessly at destroying Thailand and would have succeeded it it hadn't been for the current protests stopping them in their tracks, unfortunately they haven't done the honourable thing and stepped down in shame, I only hope that everything they have done is fully exposed to the Thai people and they are brought to justice

Treason = The betrayal of one's own country and it's people

No your grasping at straws!

[BlackJack]

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Edited January 5, 2014 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[Briggsy]

When there are mass protests in other countries and these protests turn violent, there are usually arrests of hundreds of demonstrators.

Although the police have moved on from totally untrained (watch from behind barbed wire to using live ammunition) to partially untrained (use of basic equipment in crowd control, shields, etc.), they still haven't got round to figuring out how to arrest people.

Still got a fair way to go.

[outsider]

The shutdown is a 'serious violation of human rights with no regard to the rule of law'... so what was that in 2010... a frigging garden party, with a giant campfire sponsored by Centralworld?

Edited January 5, 2014 by outsider

[smedly]

The shutdown is a 'serious violation of human rights with no regard to the rule of law'... so what was that in 2010... a frigging garden party, with a giant campfire sponsored by Centralworld?

some are assuming that people who need essential services like hospitals etc will be denied - I have only heard that from the government and I believe that will not be the case - why should it

[JRSoul]

All these Pad Thai people has something in common. They all look very ugly for some reason!

What a vacuous post.

You will probably win the TV cretin of the year award with that one only 4 days into it

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Sorry Spot, but it's nowhere near as good as the statement that police might not know what ammunition they were firing at the protesters.

[JRSoul]

Ahh Spicoli, in every democratic government you always support the people that vote for you, that is not vote buying. The rice scheme, the computors, the minimum wage increase, the first time car buyers program where all programs to to try and improve the lives of the poor people in Thailand who helped put these people in offfice. Granted the programs are miss managed but that is typical with any Governmant on the planet. So really what you are saying is that you want to keep the people poor and not offer them any opportunities to improve there lives!

So they're not corrupt, just incompetent? And the economic damage inflicted is OK with you?

You don't help people out of poverty by giving them money, you increase the education level of their children, and make that education as cheap as possible.