ketherin Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Our condo for the last 10 years or so has been run really well, the security, garden maintenance, pool...etc,etc have all been kept up to a very good standard. The strict rules means that the standards are kept up and everyone's been happy, the committee has an annual AGM, the members are voted in for the year, they decide where the budget will be spent and direct the Thai office staff. Yesterday however the chairman sends out an e-mail to all the owners saying that someone has spoken to him (another owner) and said he's going to report him to immigration as he hasn't got a work permit, and insist they get him deported !! (dont know the full details). The chairman has then spoken to all the other committee members and they have all resigned. Without the owners committee the place will fall to ruin, imaging the Thai office staff looking after our annual budget ......it will probably be gone in the first week on one new lawnmower, which they would have a receipt for 5 million thb. My question is does anyone have any views to this type of thing being classed as working, which would require a work permit, there's no salary involved all voluntary. It must be going on all over Thailand, on the condo complexes. Thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrules Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 It will be interesting to hear how this turns out. I wonder, was it a Thai condo owner who made this threat or another foreigner ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kikoman Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Anything than could be done by a local person, could be classified as working, whether it is paid or not. During the Tidal wave aftermath a question arose where Thailand required a work permit, for foreign aid workers that donated their free services, at that time cooler heads prevailed and the aid workers were allowed to help without work permits. That being said, I would hope that serving on a committee at your condo, that you can legally own in Thailand would be classified as working, it may just be a case of one person using fear and intimidation to get access to the funds involved, I would get a lawyer and ask for a legal opinion or better yet just call the work permit office to ask if you do in fact need a work permit! Good Luck! Edited January 5, 2014 by kikoman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlycw Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Well, look at my condo's management and weep. 1 elevator has been shut off for over a year now the other one had been out of order for many weeks. (Whatever the issue, 100,000 should have been all to get it repaired. With over 300 units, that would mean less than 400 Baht per unit...) Security had been a joke - and now the security company resigned. Watch out for unfinished projects - it speaks volumes when a company gets it so wrong and then throws away all the 70% already spent rather than going to complete the project and sell it at half the cost. (Yes, the developer is listed on the SET). There has been a string of financial irregularities and stuff like one employee embezzling all the monies paid for electricity etc. Then there is the unwillingness or incompetence to get those to pay HOA fees who won't. (Many are >500,000 Baht). Decent folks pay for these deadbeat owners!!! This will be a nice new development. Hope they will find a way to deposit the cash daily and ascertain the bills get paid. You cannot make this up! Be afraid, be very afraid! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jack Mountain Posted January 5, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2014 Another reason out of many, NOT to buy in Thailand .... 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaPhom Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 It is in all effect working however he dosnt need a permit. Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris2004 Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 I raised a similar topic on 14/7/13. Look at the responses. That's why i, and many others, resigned from our condo committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culicine Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Most kinds (if not all) of work, volunteer or not, require a work permit. Sounds like the condo manager got on the wrong side of someone or saw a potential cash cow going to 'waste'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culicine Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 It is in all effect working however he dosnt need a permit. Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Where did you get that information from, that a WP is not required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiangmaibruce Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 There were one or two substantial discussion threads about a similar situation that occurred in Phuket a couple of years ago. It's worth spending to time to try the Thaivisa forum search to find that/those thread/s. Maybe try "Phuket condo deportation" or terms like that. If you can't find it then I will trawl my old records as I think I made a note of it somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post harrry Posted January 5, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2014 Committee member does not need a work permit. Commite Chairman does not need a work permit. Jurasic Manager does need a work permit. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaPhom Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 It is in all effect working however he dosnt need a permit. Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Where did you get that information from, that a WP is not required? From a lawyer Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaldwin Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Our condo for the last 10 years or so has been run really well, the security, garden maintenance, pool...etc,etc have all been kept up to a very good standard. The strict rules means that the standards are kept up and everyone's been happy, the committee has an annual AGM, the members are voted in for the year, they decide where the budget will be spent and direct the Thai office staff. Yesterday however the chairman sends out an e-mail to all the owners saying that someone has spoken to him (another owner) and said he's going to report him to immigration as he hasn't got a work permit, and insist they get him deported !! (dont know the full details). The chairman has then spoken to all the other committee members and they have all resigned. Without the owners committee the place will fall to ruin, imaging the Thai office staff looking after our annual budget ......it will probably be gone in the first week on one new lawnmower, which they would have a receipt for 5 million thb. My question is does anyone have any views to this type of thing being classed as working, which would require a work permit, there's no salary involved all voluntary. It must be going on all over Thailand, on the condo complexes. Thanks for your help I think I know which condo you are talking about. I have received very clear legal advice that no work permit is required for the activities I undertake as Committee Chairman. In addition, the Juristic Person Manager, used her contacts to make an appointment to meet a senior official of the Land Office. He also confirmed that no work permit was required. Equally as importantly we received advice on the circumstances under which immigration is likely to start an investigation and the type of evidence that would be required to take an investigation forward. Although it was important to confirm our understanding of the legal position, concerns about this were not the main reason for the resignation of the Committee. The behaviour of the co-owner was much more important. Until there are volunteers to form a new committee, the Condo will now be run entirely at the discretion of the Juristic Person Manager, who still owns a substantial number of units. Actually, I would be more concerned that there will be great reluctance for her to approve any major item of future expenditure which, over time, may lead to a deterioration in the appearance and condition of the condo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancnx Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Idiotic state of affairs in my view. There is Thai management in place to do the work. The committee and chairman just oversee the operations and accountability of the condo in accordance with Thai Law, namely the Condominium Act. The JP should have robustly nipped this in the bud, which leads me to wonder is there more to this than meets the eye? The JP should be accountable to the Committee. If you don't get on top of this now all co-owners collectively will have regrets me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I think there must be a committee under the act. Of course if no-one except the jps friends nominate and attend the meeting that is the committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbaldwin Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I think there must be a committee under the act. Of course if no-one except the jps friends nominate and attend the meeting that is the committee. This is not the advice of the Land Office. If no Committee can be formed the condo will continue to operate but checks and balances over the way the JPM acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briley Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Chiang Mai immigration informed us that working as the JP was generally regarded as a paid job and required a work permit but immigration did not consider being on the committee to be work. Different immigration offices might have different opinions. I also believe that if complaints are made to them about a foreigner they will investigate, but from my experience they are very fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jomcondo Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 I've seen this happen many times before. Farang committee members start to get out of control with feelings of power, bring in too many rules etc. antagonizing & alienating people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 You need a work permit see: http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 It is in all effect working however he dosnt need a permit. Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Where did you get that information from, that a WP is not required?From a lawyerSent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Not a good one: http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancnx Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 It is in all effect working however he dosnt need a permit. Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Where did you get that information from, that a WP is not required? From a lawyerSent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Not a good one:http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329 Frits IMHO that is absolute rubbish and don't believe such an article to be authoritative whatsoever. Sitting on a condo committee is not work provided you employ a JP and a Thai manager and staff to run the day to day operations and administration of the building. It is an overseeing function safeguarding your own property interests. It is not work. It is not denying employment of a Thai in anyway shape or form! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritsSikkink Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 From a lawyerSent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Not a good one:http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers/details.asp?id=1329 Frits IMHO that is absolute rubbish and don't believe such an article to be authoritative whatsoever. Sitting on a condo committee is not work provided you employ a JP and a Thai manager and staff to run the day to day operations and administration of the building. It is an overseeing function safeguarding your own property interests. It is not work. It is not denying employment of a Thai in anyway shape or form! You can think it is rubbish what the chief of the work permit division in Phuket says but he decides and you don't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 It is in all effect working however he dosnt need a permit. Sent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Where did you get that information from, that a WP is not required?From a lawyerSent from my ST27a using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Er a lawyer can only offer a legal opinion, nothing more nothing less....if you ended up in court you have no defense by saying...cos he told me so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Chiang Mai immigration informed us that working as the JP was generally regarded as a paid job and required a work permit but immigration did not consider being on the committee to be work. Different immigration offices might have different opinions. I also believe that if complaints are made to them about a foreigner they will investigate, but from my experience they are very fair. Er immigration dont decide...the department of labour (DOL) decides the defintion of working and who does or doesnt need a WP So one supposes Chang Mai immigration gave you this in writing then ?.....if not, then lets suppose you didnt end up in court what basis would you have to defend yourself.....Private Somchai at immigration said it was ok...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Frits IMHO that is absolute rubbish and don't believe such an article to be authoritative whatsoever. Sitting on a condo committee is not work provided you employ a JP and a Thai manager and staff to run the day to day operations and administration of the building. It is an overseeing function safeguarding your own property interests. It is not work. It is not denying employment of a Thai in anyway shape or form! "Phuket Employment Office, Work Permit Division chief Jeeraphan Sookhwan" ....I would say its definitely authoritative...seeing as the answer given comes from the goverment official who decides in the case of Phuket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Issangeorge Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 One thing wrong with the answer is the part that you cannot get a work permit on a visa extension based on retirement. I have had four WPs from 3 different provinces all on a nonimmigrant O extension based on retirement. If they got that wrong, what else did they get wrong? Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) One thing wrong with the answer is the part that you cannot get a work permit on a visa extension based on retirement. I have had four WPs from 3 different provinces all on a nonimmigrant O extension based on retirement. If they got that wrong, what else did they get wrong? Sent from my i-mobile IQ X using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Who says they are "wrong" a debate on this exact issue, and you contributed... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/573800-work-permit-possible-on-retirement-visa/ and TV's own blurb on retirement visa's http://www.thaivisa.com/retirement-non-imm-oa-visa.html Edited January 10, 2014 by Soutpeel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condocondo Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Personal experience , Chairman and committee members do not need a work permit Farang JPM requires work permit. Had same problem, Let Condo lawyers deal with it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BradinAsia Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Committee member does not need a work permit. Commite Chairman does not need a work permit. Jurasic Manager does need a work permit. Is Jurasic Manager like the manager of Jurasic Park. But did humans exist on earth 150 million years ago? Oh, sorry. Maybe you meant juristic... Just joking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harrry Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Committee member does not need a work permit. Commite Chairman does not need a work permit. Jurasic Manager does need a work permit. Is Jurasic Manager like the manager of Jurasic Park. But did humans exist on earth 150 million years ago? Oh, sorry. Maybe you meant juristic... Just joking... Have you seen a few of them....Not joking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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