Sinsod maybe the end

[ericthai]

You never said how much Sin sod they want?

I married my wife paid 300,000B I was 41 she was 32 never married, no children. Her father gave us the money back and gave us 8 rai. My friend married his wife, her 1st marriage he was 38 she was 32, University educated, family has money, no children etc, he paid 300,000B which was given back after the wedding, just for show. of course some gold.

She was married before and has a child so there should be no sid sod. I would come to negotiate with the mother just to keep peace in the family. You do need to make a big show at the wedding giving money, so stop payments for several months and give them 150,000B plus some gold. If they dont like it there are many many more great girls out there. They have no money you do, guess who is in charge. Take a stand! However things work out, good luck to you!!

[tetleythedog]

From what I read if she has been married before and has kids you should not have to pay anything.

Precisely !!! How many times does her mother want to sell her?? You have already said you support the mother so basically she is just an unappreciative money grabbing bithch ! Don't be dictated to mate................you earn the money..............you dictate !

[HUAHIN62]

Agree with the posts about not paying sinsod to a woman that was already married. There could however be another reasons why sinsod is important to her. Part of sinsod is normaly in gold which serves as security in case of a divorce, so maybe due to her previous relationship she feels insecure. Another reason could be that the family wants to give her a proper wedding but dont have the funds and the sinsod will be used for this. There cant be a clear cut answer if they are trying to mine you or not, you will have to use your gut feel.

About 10 baht gold (B 200 000) and for a good wedding without bells and whistles about B 300 000. If they are asking for millions RUN.

[northengr]

one item I did not see anyone address here.

It is loss of face and almost impossible to "backup". that means what you are giving now, cannot be cut back. Its a real big deal. Maybe you not loving her so much. You will always be pushed by the needs of the poor to pay more and more and you must learn to dig in or like socialism you will all become equal and poor. You are marrying into the whole family, unlike in western societies. So starting high because you are enthused or madly in love is a bad start, because the costs will need to go up over time.

I love my wife and I am sure she loves me, but family is number one for her and for 10 years now it is normal to have to dig in my heals several times per year on bigger requests and to deduct little requests from my normal fixed monthly support.

I plan to have enough of my savings left as I age out of earning to be able to support us for the next 30 years, but her time horizon is about 6 months,

[12DrinkMore]

Don't cha'll just love the POWER of the internet.

The OP has gone from the original post

Posted 2014-01-06 10:22

To a bullet point solution discussed and accepted with future mum in law and wife

Posted 2014-01-07 07:49

All in 21 hours

Methinks we've be trolled again with this good old sinsod chestnut, guaranteed EVERYTIME to bring 'em all onboard.

[realenglish1]

In reality the first mistake you made was showing them you have money compaired with the Thai girl you love.l She has a child and was married before regardless of it was for the childs name or not.

You have to be firm and point out to the mother that no sinsod will be paid because she was married and has a child.

Understand that a previously married woman with child here in Thailand is not looked on too well in Thai culture. But the mother sees a pay day and figures you have money so what the hell.. She really knows on a second marriage with child there is no Sinsod.

I would suggest to you that since you pay about 1500 US per month Tell the mother you will not give sinsod they way she wants but will give her $2,000 usd or similiar amount to help the family and leave it at that . There will be some grumbling but they will accept it

Tell them that is the way it is out they will always look for money Be strong and don't be stupid even thought you love her.

I have been here 10 years and understand this well

[rct99q]

Hang on.......she originally got married (legal?) to put the fathers' name on the birth certificate? I don't think so.......they can put Justin Beiber on the birth certificate if they wanted to. Most Thai's do not go through with a legal marriage, mostly the traditional marriage (monk thingy).

So if this is what she told you....then she is still married to the father or is a pack of lies....or a troll post......

[Daniel Boon]

http://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand/thai-dowry.php

[TheFishman1]

Your 45 yrs old wow maybe your not thinking with what's between your ears ,or thinking with between your legs you don't know these people really well and if your sending 1500 US that is just crazy Sounds like you want to Fix girls problems her business her car her child her mother Wow One born every min

[yourauntbob]

If your dishing that type of cash every month then I would not worry about sinsod. Call her bluff (the mom's that is) and say that you are calling off the wedding and immedately stopping all futher payments. I guess it would be 10 minutes befure sinsod is off the table for good.

[cuhullan1]

Really,1500.00 is an absolute fortune,Why get married ? I live with my girl and am pretty happy.I pay all the bills food everything.I give her 400 bucks a month to do whatever with she wants.I met the family once and made it clear i had no intention to get married.I also made it clear that this is my house and not for her family to visit.I respect women and treat her like a princess.Why should i fund her lazy brother who sits around all day doing nothing.Brother arrived unannounced at our house and was promtly driven to the bus station.She has a good life with me and wants for nothing and still can send money back to lazy family.Marriage,,,maybe in another lifetime

[chuenyongman]

When I got married to Thai lady she had grown up son . Her parents had passed away. Her eldest sister. discussed with my wife about giving her 10,000 baht. I told her to take a flying leap. I already heard about no sin sod if lady had been previously married.

[jinners]

Sinsot is for the traditional marriage ceremony of virgin brides. To be a little bit more practical, it's for brides who appear to be virgins - no previous relationship and no children. To be even more practical, it's about 'face' for the family whether or not there have been previous marriages or there are children. The cash and gold go to mother who usually pays for the wedding from the cash and hands the gold and remainder of the cash to the bride.

Paying the sinsot by instalments is not on the cards. It has to be shown off at the wedding.

Mother's wishes override those of the bride and groom.

The traditional wedding is not recognised in law. My understanding is that the groom acquires no legal rights whatsoever.

The groom might suggest having a legal marriage at the local Amphur office first and considering the traditional ceremony and party later. By doing that he would acquire a husband's legal rights and have time to see how things pan out with mother.

Sinsot is against the instinct of most Western husbands but this is Thailand, as they say. Dig in your heals with a total refusal and you may lose a genuine lady because she is obliged to put mother first. You need to be flexible. The lady is caught in a cleft stick and the would-be husband should look for a compromise that suits him and digs her out with dignity.

At last, common sense! Well said.

[mrowe1973]

Your being suckered big time. You are only a cash cow, man up! Sinsod is never paid for a divorcee with a child. Look it up. Any relationship that begins with money is not real. You are paying way too much monthly. That is the reason that they think they can milk you big time. Would you pay this to get a white women? You left your brains on the train. Another sucker comes to Thailand, why do educated normal white guys lose their brains when it comes to Thai girls? You are a future victim, I await your sad story in the future. Read Thailand Fever.

Yep another bitter man walking around Thialand complaining about Thai Women and how they take advantage of white guys! I swear it's like a guy never has been laid in his entire life untill he goes to Thialand. If they want you to be a customer it's cheaper to just pay the bar girl the 2,000 Bhat! Wake up!!!!

[puukao]

Who says Thais are dumb? Bad business people? poor? This family has an annuity of 1500 per month for doing nothing, and going for more!!! and they will likely get more money!! OP, you knew your answer before you posted. We are all suckers in life; working for the man, buying junk, wasting money on whatever, etc....so don't feel too bad. But you are their bank, and that bank must close their doors immediately. It's so sad how money owns and destroys so many lives. Your heart is in the right place, but you don't need to waste 18,000 USD a year to experience emotion.

[ttthailand]

US$1500 a month? I pray and hope my gf doesn't read this....!

Too late....mine already has. Guess what we're goin to be 'discussing' all day today then...

You will be discussing how smart you are and that you are not same the moron who pays out big money in hopes of getting laid .... Also, you gf will respect you , can not say same for OP

[Phuketboy]

Sounds like you are seriously being taken for a ride. I am sitting here with my Thai fiance responding to this as I feel this is a very important issue as so many farang think they have to pay ridiculous amounts. Sinsod is actually a Chinese tradition not a Thai one, although the Thai's have adopted this tradition. A sinsod is normally paid to a family for their virgin daughter, not to enrich the brides parents, but in order to show that the groom is financial stable. Occationally, this is given back to the couple after the wedding to begin their life, set up home, build house etc (such is our case). The price of the sinsod depends on many factors such as social status, level of education as well as what she can bring into the marriage. If your future wife has been married before and a sinsod is asked, it should be much lower than what would be asked if she had never been married. You should make your own judgement on what you think should be paid. Basically, the sinsod for a middle class university graduate who has never been married and has no kids would average between 100,000 - 300,000.

As for you paying US $1500 per month to her family, this is way too much as most people in this forum would probably agree. My Thai fiance sitting next to me asked if you are supporting your girlfriends entire family (parents, kids, uncles, aunties, cousins etc)? She says, like myself and others would say, this girl sounds like she just loves your money. I suspect that anyone paying this money is either a fool or has so much money that they just don't care to think about it. My personal advise would be run for the hills, but each to their own. I give 10,000 baht per month to my fiance's mother as she helps to look after our daughter (here with us) and take care of her sick father who is back on the farm. Basically, if I was to hire a nanny I would be paying the same, therefore I'm really not paying them for doing nothing. Her family are very grateful for this and never ask for anything else. Do some investigating on your partners past, find out if she has a husband or thai partner around the corner (there are many PI's that can do this in Thailand) cause this family clearly want to take you for all your worth.

[RoyEngland]

Sounds like you are seriously being taken for a ride. I am sitting here with my Thai fiance responding to this as I feel this is a very important issue as so many farang think they have to pay ridiculous amounts. Sinsod is actually a Chinese tradition not a Thai one, although the Thai's have adopted this tradition. A sinsod is normally paid to a family for their virgin daughter, not to enrich the brides parents, but in order to show that the groom is financial stable. Occationally, this is given back to the couple after the wedding to begin their life, set up home, build house etc (such is our case). The price of the sinsod depends on many factors such as social status, level of education as well as what she can bring into the marriage. If your future wife has been married before and a sinsod is asked, it should be much lower than what would be asked if she had never been married. You should make your own judgement on what you think should be paid. Basically, the sinsod for a middle class university graduate who has never been married and has no kids would average between 100,000 - 300,000.

As for you paying US $1500 per month to her family, this is way too much as most people in this forum would probably agree. My Thai fiance sitting next to me asked if you are supporting your girlfriends entire family (parents, kids, uncles, aunties, cousins etc)? She says, like myself and others would say, this girl sounds like she just loves your money. I suspect that anyone paying this money is either a fool or has so much money that they just don't care to think about it. My personal advise would be run for the hills, but each to their own. I give 10,000 baht per month to my fiance's mother as she helps to look after our daughter (here with us) and take care of her sick father who is back on the farm. Basically, if I was to hire a nanny I would be paying the same, therefore I'm really not paying them for doing nothing. Her family are very grateful for this and never ask for anything else. Do some investigating on your partners past, find out if she has a husband or thai partner around the corner (there are many PI's that can do this in Thailand) cause this family clearly want to take you for all your worth.

Hold on, you live with the mother! Buddy don't listen to him! Just keep running!

[FlorenceM]

I guess I found this topic a bit too late as I saw you've already made decision.

But I'd like to share my opinion about this and a little bit of my story...

I'm a Thai woman. My mom and step dad live in Bangkok. My family is poor but my parents always work hard for a few amount of money each month.

I've been working since I was in high school and supported myself until I graduated and got a good job.

Now, I'm in relationship with a very lovely guy from Austria. We live together and love each other deeply.

We've met each other's parents and both of us received a lot of love from them.

He and his family always want to help me about financial stuff but I always refuse because I'd like to support my family by myself

and I don't want him to think that he's an ATM like some other Thai girls think about foreigners. I never let him pay anything for me. We always share.

My mother is kinda old-fashioned mom too and I know that she would ask for sinsod as it's a tradition.

I told my bf about that 'cause we planned to marry someday (but not soon) and if that day comes, I'll pay for the sinsod myself (I'm collecting money). It's my country's tradition, not his so he doesn't have to take the burden. He doesn't have to do anything except loving me and take good care our own family, only two things I would ask for.

Well, I just wanted to say there is no need to give away your money every month for that. If she really loves you, she will still loves you even if you're broke.

I've seen so many people I know who have bad experiences about Thai girls. They came here rich but went back broke because

they think it's normal to give money to their gf and gf's families every month. They think they should give them money every time they want.

It's not true at all, not for Thai guys either. Thai girls are very good at taking care of their partners, doesn't matter they love you or not.

You have to be careful.

But if you're totally sure you gf loves you and you would like to help them that way. Then, it's your choice. You have the right to do that.

Wish you good luck with your decisions and a happy married life with you beloved one

[Gowolfpack77]

I know from my own disasterous experience with a Khon Kaen professional scammer in 2010... I was taken with the same situation as you are going into.

That disgraceful deed by a pretty and very clever unmarried Thai woman (Jula Maya, age 37 on the wedding date) acting under daily direction of her 74 year old mother... knocked me to my senses after wasting over 2 years and over 20,000 USD. Now after that debacle and an in depth 3 years studying this pattern in Thai-Farang relationships, I realize you can not really believe anything the Thai girlfriend says or promises you until you have her visa in hand and you, she and kids have boarded the plane to move to your own country where you should legally marry first giving you some bargaining leverage using your own nation's domestic laws.

While you are in Thailand under the romantic and mystical spell of your lovely Thai girl and she is under the emotional Thai face-saving cultural and social control of her mother, you really have absolutely no negotiating power. If you are foolish and gullible, the amount of financial resources this duo (of likely scammer mother and scam abetting daughter) will work you for could be limitless and actually out on the moon.

Please hear me and let it sink into your common sense and good judgement. The Present Worth Value of your feelings of love, your kindness, payments of current and past support and willingness to care in purpetuity forever for the girlfriend and her daughter... are not really a part of the Thai Marriage Present Worth Valuation Model equation used by the Thai wedding mothers who turn out to be scammers.

The only Present Worth Value relevant to the scammer mother is whether you will pay a very high monetary sinsod up front to put the mother on easy street, pay completely for the Buddhist Temple Ceremony and an extravagant hotel showoff wedding, and as though that were not sufficient to keep your Thai wife... after that you must continue to funnel money through the daughter forever to her mother regardless of whether you reside in Thailand or you reside with your new wife in your own country.

This is not always the case... but is a typical scmmer case as I was told by my Thai-American law firm attorney in Bangkok. In your case the odds are at least 20 to 1 that you are being scammed with the mother orchestrating and advising her daughter every time your name comes up in converstation to take you financially as a fool whether you end up together at all or may actually have a future together.

Please know that the average Thai woman earns approximately 65,000 THB ( 2000 USD) annually with which she lives and sends money to her mother monthy to help her and any kids the daughter may be leaving with her mother while she is away working. That is only approximately 300 USD monthy to support herself, her mother and any kids.

Knowing that... you should see that the idea of sending any amount greater than 300 USD to supplement the income your girlfriend should be earning is rediculous and sends the message to your girlfriend and her mother that you are not informed about Thai marriage and appropriate financial support. As another poster said here, they see you as a nice man but for them you are a soft touch who is going to be their con game target.

The mother could care less about whether her daughter ever loves or cares for you in return for your honest although naive generosity. The reality of this is that the male-dominated Thai social and so-called family responsibility system allows the Thai boys and men to date and marry and otherwise knockup the pretty young Thai ladies, then usually during the pregnancy the guy runs off to another younger girl or takes to drimking and finding sex elsewhere with bargirls.

The pregnant wife or girlfriend figures it out, then she and any kids go to live with her mother who she is already having to support financially because her father has already left, abandoned or divorced her mother due to the same culturally supported self-destructive behavioral cycle. Sometimes the divorced or abandoned wife or girlfriend tries marriage again with another Thai man or a farang often ending similarly and leaving the Thai girlfriend with as many as 3 or 4 kids fathered by 2 or more males.

In any event, a farang looking to marry such a Thai woman, having been legally married or not and whether with or without kids, will be expected and required to give financial support to the mother, daughter etal if he want to marry and live with his Thai wife permanently! Otherwise the marry will not last and the daughter will return to Thailand to support her mother and kids just as though nothing ever happened!

As in your case and in most cases, the safest and now I know the most economically best approach for any honest and responsible farang, regardless of financial ability, to mange this proposed marriage is as follows:

In your case, you should consult in depth with and obtain the legal assistance of a Thai-American or another Thai-Farang Law Firm attorney located either in Bangkok or in your own country.

Hire them for 5000 to 7000 USD (pay as you go if possible) to start over to renegotiate everything with your fiancee henceforth.

Put it all in a formally written documented Pre-Marital Agreement with finances and an escape clause set up in detail, get her signature first, then you sign.

Then have the attorney manage the Visa Process.

Only after the Visa is approved and in possessiont, return to Thailand to marry her in a traditional but non-legal Thai wedding.

Then take her and you and the kids (if moving the kids is logival and possible as is written into the Agreement) to your country.

There you should legally marry in your mation first after a month to 3 months maximum so that you are both legally obligated to work together seriously.

If there is any extra last minute demands to extract more finances that is wriien in the Pre-Marital Agreement or there is any dealy or refusal to marry legally under the Agreementas is, then utilize the necessary legal language and Escape Clause in the Agreement to move away from the wife and kids with consultation with your own personal and private attorney to stop, prevent and protect against further legal or financial obligation to the wife and kids other than what your national domestic laws require of you.

[little mary sunshine]

Another <deleted> IDIOT.......You should stay in your country and keep

sending ALL you money to her...........Stupid....READ TV !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[2unique]

I wrote my original post after 6 or so posts and didn't realize this was supposedly happeninib in chiang mai.

This is sdshaman back with a parallel story to before and clearly he's taken the points that tv detectives gave him on trolling and attempted a more believable persona and relationship.

Parallels

2 visits

Chiang Mai

Engagement

Wedding

Sin sot

Mother in Law character

Doesn't live here

Points

The child is her own

Her age is too young

You're English isn't good enough to be a film producer

Just from the top of my head ...

Not only a troll but the same troll

Sent from Android please excuse errors in type or judgement

[KonKorat]

you don't pay if she was already married before,plus you are very generous sending her $1500/month. the mother should be ashamed of herself to ask for sinod money,knowing well herself her daughter was already married before and all the help you have already given them.

[Phuketboy]

Sounds like you are seriously being taken for a ride. I am sitting here with my Thai fiance responding to this as I feel this is a very important issue as so many farang think they have to pay ridiculous amounts. Sinsod is actually a Chinese tradition not a Thai one, although the Thai's have adopted this tradition. A sinsod is normally paid to a family for their virgin daughter, not to enrich the brides parents, but in order to show that the groom is financial stable. Occationally, this is given back to the couple after the wedding to begin their life, set up home, build house etc (such is our case). The price of the sinsod depends on many factors such as social status, level of education as well as what she can bring into the marriage. If your future wife has been married before and a sinsod is asked, it should be much lower than what would be asked if she had never been married. You should make your own judgement on what you think should be paid. Basically, the sinsod for a middle class university graduate who has never been married and has no kids would average between 100,000 - 300,000.

As for you paying US $1500 per month to her family, this is way too much as most people in this forum would probably agree. My Thai fiance sitting next to me asked if you are supporting your girlfriends entire family (parents, kids, uncles, aunties, cousins etc)? She says, like myself and others would say, this girl sounds like she just loves your money. I suspect that anyone paying this money is either a fool or has so much money that they just don't care to think about it. My personal advise would be run for the hills, but each to their own. I give 10,000 baht per month to my fiance's mother as she helps to look after our daughter (here with us) and take care of her sick father who is back on the farm. Basically, if I was to hire a nanny I would be paying the same, therefore I'm really not paying them for doing nothing. Her family are very grateful for this and never ask for anything else. Do some investigating on your partners past, find out if she has a husband or thai partner around the corner (there are many PI's that can do this in Thailand) cause this family clearly want to take you for all your worth.

Hold on, you live with the mother! Buddy don't listen to him! Just keep running!

No, the mother is staying with us at the present time due to me setting up a new business. Therefore, I asked her to come and help look after our daughter while this is happening. She is heading home to Isaan on the 10th January as things are nearing completion and she will no longer be required.

[quiuvo]

Wow, dude. $1,500 is way too much. I used to give $300 and I felt it was too much but you! I'm very certain the sex is great?

[darth31]

Sinsod is paid for virgins or woman with higher education. If marry a so called superstar sinsod might be millions of baht, but for a woman that has been married and have a child it can be nothing or up to 50.000,- baht or 100.000,- baht. This is up to you and her family to decide by negotiations. When you pay 1.500 usd a month you are way out man, way out.. I suggest you wake up and start look around for a new woman. I met a thai girl when she was 19 and we still together after 1,5 years now. There has never been talking of money. She gives her mom about 1000,- baht pr month for support, but she never ask me for anything. We have stayed i her moms house several times and i have supported with food and paid the electrical bill, once. 600,- baht. She now lives with me and we not plan for marry or anything. Her mother does not mind and do not complain about anything. It looks like you are beeing screwed big time pal. Move on to a new, thats my advice. Love is easily faked by women in Thailand, just ask around.

[RoyEngland]

Sounds like you are seriously being taken for a ride. I am sitting here with my Thai fiance responding to this as I feel this is a very important issue as so many farang think they have to pay ridiculous amounts. Sinsod is actually a Chinese tradition not a Thai one, although the Thai's have adopted this tradition. A sinsod is normally paid to a family for their virgin daughter, not to enrich the brides parents, but in order to show that the groom is financial stable. Occationally, this is given back to the couple after the wedding to begin their life, set up home, build house etc (such is our case). The price of the sinsod depends on many factors such as social status, level of education as well as what she can bring into the marriage. If your future wife has been married before and a sinsod is asked, it should be much lower than what would be asked if she had never been married. You should make your own judgement on what you think should be paid. Basically, the sinsod for a middle class university graduate who has never been married and has no kids would average between 100,000 - 300,000.

As for you paying US $1500 per month to her family, this is way too much as most people in this forum would probably agree. My Thai fiance sitting next to me asked if you are supporting your girlfriends entire family (parents, kids, uncles, aunties, cousins etc)? She says, like myself and others would say, this girl sounds like she just loves your money. I suspect that anyone paying this money is either a fool or has so much money that they just don't care to think about it. My personal advise would be run for the hills, but each to their own. I give 10,000 baht per month to my fiance's mother as she helps to look after our daughter (here with us) and take care of her sick father who is back on the farm. Basically, if I was to hire a nanny I would be paying the same, therefore I'm really not paying them for doing nothing. Her family are very grateful for this and never ask for anything else. Do some investigating on your partners past, find out if she has a husband or thai partner around the corner (there are many PI's that can do this in Thailand) cause this family clearly want to take you for all your worth.

Hold on, you live with the mother! Buddy don't listen to him! Just keep running!

No, the mother is staying with us at the present time due to me setting up a new business. Therefore, I asked her to come and help look after our daughter while this is happening. She is heading home to Isaan on the 10th January as things are nearing completion and she will no longer be required.

I like my gfs mother even though she is very poor and teethless. She has worked every day of her entire life except for a few days. Helping out the poor ain't a bad thing, can only be good.

Whether it's 10,000 or a million.. do they need it, because if they don't then why the h3ll give it.

[Aland]

I'm afraid I will have to disagree with most everyone that has responded. I myself am getting married tomorrow, before the holidays we went to Bangkok and were legally married. I didn't mention sinsot and neither did my wife. A traditional wedding or marriage is a whole different story. I like yourself support not only my wife and her daughter but one way or another I support the entire family, when we buy food to take and eat at home, we have to buy enough for the entire family, when someone gets sick to where a hospital visit is needed? They turn to me to help out with a "loan". I don't like it but that's the way it is, however, when I need something the family will bend over backwards to help me out. Point being I also wasn't happy about paying sinsot but as I understand it it is a face thing, my wife's aunt married a Thai man last year and he refused to pay sinsot, we'll guess what? He caught crap from her family and his. I negotiated with my mother in law, it wasn't much of a negotiation as I told her I would pay baht 45,000 and she said ok. Everyone's happy now but me, I'll get over it, I have the best woman that I've ever met and she treats me like a king so if it cost me a couple days pay to keep the peace I figure it's well worth it. Just my opinion but what do I know, I live out in the sticks with the country bumpkins but they are good people.

[superdome]

You do not pay sin sot on 2nd marrage..and is only paid for virgins..if you can find one

[Ulic]

Have you read nothing on this site. You are a bit naive to say the least. Stop the money flow.

Sinsod may or may not be for virgins, however it is certainly not for divorced women with children.

Sending $1,500 USD you are a fantastic CASH COW. Got to be good for 10 million baht. Do what you

want but you are not making your situation any better by paying. Turn off the tap and see what happens.