Shortage of Massage ladies

[falkan]

look outside the tourist ghettos and you find proper massage..

[bunuel]

Here in Pattaya there once were two excellent massage facilities that my wife and I used to go to together on

a monthly basis, In the first case, the facilities were superb, with Jacuzzi, sauna and Turkish bath for free, and some truly talented masseuses whom both my wife and I liked. The ambience was Japanese, so tea was served after the massage. We liked it so much we would bring our friends whenever they came to visit, and we would tip 500 baht each for a two hour massage. There was only one private room - and there never seemed to be any side business gping on. Then, after a while, the good masseuses told us they were going to quit because the manager was making impossible demands. Without good masseuses, the place quickly went down hill, and soon went out of business, it is now a parking lot.

The only other place we liked that offered legit massage with first-rate older masseuses also was closed down, even though business seemed to be good. Very strange. My wife and I now are looking for a new place we can go to together.

Unfortunately, I know of some qualified masseuses that joined the "pretty girl happy endings brigade" as you put it.

And this is due to lack of sufficient earnings.

They start with a dream, but when money is not enough to support the family, they turn the other way.

Feel sorry for them and I beg you as you have "financial interest in some massage shops" try to convince the massage parlour owners to reward them better.

After all they do a good and exhausting job.

Typically, the shop owners do not care about the staff....just want them to work...

Was talking to a lady doing a massage last week, she said that if she wants a day off, she has to pay the owner 500 bahts... And I heard that many times...

So they freelance..

And other girls then must be hired.....

[Beetlejuice]

I would say that due to the facts that economically Thai people are better off these days than they were 10 and more years ago, that many women no longer want to be employed as staff within the Thai massage industry

Firstly, this is demanding hard physical work for a pittance. Many customers insist on a firm massage and the outcome of this is that many masseuses have suffered severe finger joints disabilities and major back problems after years of this grinding physical work and then find themselves caste out with nothing once they become too old or weak to do the job according to the customers specifications and the employers expectations of them.

It`s really a mugs game that used to be for the desperate that had little other options of making a living when times were tough. Thankfully times have changed and the days of the sweet, subservient, desperate Thai workers willing to work their guts out for slave labour wages have now gone.

If the OP is a legitimate massage parlour owner and want`s to staff his parlours with professional staff, than he has to offer the appropriate wages accordingly in order to attract these people into wanting to work for his business.

Get it?

[Dannyboy6]

Andre0720

Wouldn't believe everything you are, told by a worker, is actually the status quo :-)

Remember they chat to keep you happy and to maximise "tip" potential.

ie they are hard doneby and therefore you will be generous.

Human nature at work.

As an example, in my shops, we have trouble getting them to take a day off!!

They are there for the money!!!

You may be confused with a take a day off ""with a customer"", a fee that is usually paid as its all last minute.

The 500 baht fee is paid by the customer.

Planned days off are no problem.

and the other comment about getting 500 baht for a wank verses 30 baht for a hours work.

Best you update your knowledge on what ""real"" massage ladies get paid..

Many are on 50% of the fee plus 100% of tips.

All commenter's should also understand that many massage ladies are not there for the day to day money but to find a falang boyfriend to take care of them.

Well that's our experience in Phuket.......About 2 or 3 a month (low season) leave us for this reason!

. My girlfriend had to pay the Pricks 500 baht for each day off... Don't give me that Rubbish...

[jacko45k]

Andre0720

Wouldn't believe everything you are, told by a worker, is actually the status quo :-)

Remember they chat to keep you happy and to maximise "tip" potential.

ie they are hard doneby and therefore you will be generous.

Human nature at work.

As an example, in my shops, we have trouble getting them to take a day off!!

They are there for the money!!!

You may be confused with a take a day off ""with a customer"", a fee that is usually paid as its all last minute.

The 500 baht fee is paid by the customer.

Planned days off are no problem.

and the other comment about getting 500 baht for a wank verses 30 baht for a hours work.

Best you update your knowledge on what ""real"" massage ladies get paid..

Many are on 50% of the fee plus 100% of tips.

All commenter's should also understand that many massage ladies are not there for the day to day money but to find a falang boyfriend to take care of them.

Well that's our experience in Phuket.......About 2 or 3 a month (low season) leave us for this reason!

. My girlfriend had to pay the Pricks 500 baht for each day off... Don't give me that Rubbish...

Other than that was she expected to work 7 days/week?

If not..... I think it is a fair way to ensure they turn up for work for the remaining days.

If yes, did she not know the working schedule before accepting the job?

It is like paying her own...OFF and quite common practice.

[seedy]

The very first Thai massages I had 32 years ago in Koh Samui were from an 83 y.o., ex-Thai boxer and he was a true master.

Never even heard of this. I use massage to alleviate some old injuries - 'Sportster Knee' being the most painful, and a deep penetrating massage helps.

Any idea where I can go to find one of these guys ?? Live in CNX.

Thanks

[siamjimi]

shortage of true massage girls everywhere - at times I am much worse off after having been to an unskilled massuese and quite sore for many days after

try looking for wat po trained massuese and once you find one that is trained make sure to get her phone number - these girls frequently move from job to job - location to location

[bbbbooboo]

Probably its basic human nature wanting to massage the muscles that give the most money in the shortest time, however I suggest there is one group of muscles that the thais are notorious for not using

[ozyjon]

I remember some time ago i was visiting friends in Nong Bua Lamphu,, one day the lady of my friend asked if we would like to have a massage, we (my friend and i both males) agreed and we went to a Wat where there were many type halls and we went to one where there were about 60 ladies of all ages and types, they were there learning massage the right way and after asking and speaking to many some i found out were already employed some wanted to go to Bangkok but surprising many were eying going overseas to Malaysia and Singapore,, maybe that's that's where the talent are heading.

[Beetlejuice]

Ever run a business Fifty?

I'll pass on your excellent suggestions to the misses and see if she happy to run at a loss during the high season.

Not many of these farang owned massage parlours are run properly and have no proper management controls on the business or their staff.

I frequent massage parlours in Chiang Mai, and in the past have seen the farang owners sitting there trying not to appear conspicuous as if they are customers, then I see them shiftily sneaking back and forth into an office or room at the Back or quietly giving the staff orders or chatting with the lady manageress who is usually their Thai wife or Thai girlfriend. It`s obvious that these farangs have no work permits and using Thais to front the businesses. Sooner or later the staff catch on to this and it therefore becomes more difficult to have controls over the staff and the business as a whole, which is a main reason why these farang backed massage parlours are such a shambles, as in many cases the Thai wives or girlfriends have no managerial skills whatsoever, but are in it as an experiment believing that running a business is just opening shop and taking the money, especially if it`s a gift handed to them by a farang husband or boyfriend. The attitude being to let the staff handle the customers as they see fit providing the money keeps rolling in, especially within the main city centres and main tourist areas which seems to be the favourite locations for these farang financed massage parlours. For obvious reasons the staff prefer male customers because they are more inclined to tip for those little extras and not so fussy regarding the condition of the premises providing the girl is young and sluttish enough.

I try to avoid these places and prefer to use the more established Thai owned massage parlours outside of the main tourist drags, that usually have more professional staff giving legit massages and more inclined to receive a better less hurried service that is better value for money.

[baldman]

Thank you ladies and gentlemen of the commenting community.for your opinions.

As I have come to expect.one or two diamonds in amongst the dross.

Most of the posts were off topic and rattling on about things that the poster probably thought were true or valid but that is to be expected on this forum.

Some perspective, I have been a small business consultant and business owner(off and on) for 40 years, Asia, Canada and Australasia.

I never cease to be amazed by the "common folk" who seem to thing every staff problem can be solved by the pay more wages mantra as tho that can happen overnight. Remember these are small business who do not have large cashflows or reserves to implement such things and have to plan and manage accordingly.

For information, in this part of the world. mature massage ladies can expect to receive well over 1,000baht a day plus tips plus (free accomodation and food at the shops I am involved with.)

Many will receive tips of over 300 baht a day. Some will only work for 8 hours a day (4pm-midnight). Some will not work every day by choice.

I agree with a couple of posters who actually address my original post.

Economically the street level income of Thai has gone up.

It is only time then that will see an increase in the price of massages (and other labour intensive services) to fund increasing rents and incomes.

Interesting times ahead.

Thanks again for all your comments.

[brit1984]

we have a spa in phuket - it's been open less than a year so can't compare to previous years but can compare to bangkok...

in phuket, most good therapists are settled in good jobs with long term contracts so the labour market is not so fluid like bangkok

therefore we hired most staff directly from massage schools up north (and we had to offer more salary / benefits vs bangkok)

plus side is lower staff turnover in phuket (maybe because most live together in accommodation we provide so there's more team spirit)

the thai spa industry is growing fast and recruiting / retaining staff is one of the growing pains that all spas need to deal with

[Old Croc]

Ever run a business Fifty?

I'll pass on your excellent suggestions to the misses and see if she happy to run at a loss during the high season.

Not many of these farang owned massage parlours are run properly and have no proper management controls on the business or their staff.

I frequent massage parlours in Chiang Mai, and in the past have seen the farang owners sitting there trying not to appear conspicuous as if they are customers, then I see them shiftily sneaking back and forth into an office or room at the Back or quietly giving the staff orders or chatting with the lady manageress who is usually their Thai wife or Thai girlfriend. It`s obvious that these farangs have no work permits and using Thais to front the businesses. Sooner or later the staff catch on to this and it therefore becomes more difficult to have controls over the staff and the business as a whole, which is a main reason why these farang backed massage parlours are such a shambles, as in many cases the Thai wives or girlfriends have no managerial skills whatsoever, but are in it as an experiment believing that running a business is just opening shop and taking the money, especially if it`s a gift handed to them by a farang husband or boyfriend. The attitude being to let the staff handle the customers as they see fit providing the money keeps rolling in, especially within the main city centres and main tourist areas which seems to be the favourite locations for these farang financed massage parlours. For obvious reasons the staff prefer male customers because they are more inclined to tip for those little extras and not so fussy regarding the condition of the premises providing the girl is young and sluttish enough.

I try to avoid these places and prefer to use the more established Thai owned massage parlours outside of the main tourist drags, that usually have more professional staff giving legit massages and more inclined to receive a better less hurried service that is better value for money.

A typical piece of idiotic babble from you.

Seeing you quoted my post in this attack on Farang owners, I'll give you a few facts, which will be no doubt ignored.

My GF owns and runs these businesses. It is a 100% Thai business! I have never even entered the premises of one of her shops, and haven't been to the other for about 6 years at which time I was staying at the resort to which it is attached. I couldn't imagine anything more boring than hanging out in one of these places.

I am a self funded retiree on a retirement visa with very adequate income. The money my GF makes doesn't support me and I don't work in Thailand legally or otherwise! I worked for 40 odd years, I have no interest in ever doing so again.

Your silly little predilections about which shops you enter add no value to this thread.

[Loles]

This means it's better if you change your demand to happy ending style (for example I skip always the massage part and start with the end..)

and no more complaint ....

<joke>

[brit1984]

This means it's better if you change your demand to happy ending style (for example I skip always the massage part and start with the end..)

and no more complaint ....

<joke>

But then after the happy beginning wouldn't there be 58 minutes and 30 seconds of awkwardness as you don't really want a massage and they don't really want to do a massage but neither of you wants to lose face by leaving the room early...

<joke>

[brit1984]

Here in Pattaya there once were two excellent massage facilities that my wife and I used to go to together on

a monthly basis, In the first case, the facilities were superb, with Jacuzzi, sauna and Turkish bath for free, and some truly talented masseuses whom both my wife and I liked. The ambience was Japanese, so tea was served after the massage. We liked it so much we would bring our friends whenever they came to visit, and we would tip 500 baht each for a two hour massage. There was only one private room - and there never seemed to be any side business gping on. Then, after a while, the good masseuses told us they were going to quit because the manager was making impossible demands. Without good masseuses, the place quickly went down hill, and soon went out of business, it is now a parking lot.

The only other place we liked that offered legit massage with first-rate older masseuses also was closed down, even though business seemed to be good. Very strange. My wife and I now are looking for a new place we can go to together.

i think there's a health land in pattaya

also lets relax and oasis spa have branches there

[brit1984]

Thank you ladies and gentlemen of the commenting community.for your opinions.

As I have come to expect.one or two diamonds in amongst the dross.

Most of the posts were off topic and rattling on about things that the poster probably thought were true or valid but that is to be expected on this forum.

Some perspective, I have been a small business consultant and business owner(off and on) for 40 years, Asia, Canada and Australasia.

I never cease to be amazed by the "common folk" who seem to thing every staff problem can be solved by the pay more wages mantra as tho that can happen overnight. Remember these are small business who do not have large cashflows or reserves to implement such things and have to plan and manage accordingly.

For information, in this part of the world. mature massage ladies can expect to receive well over 1,000baht a day plus tips plus (free accomodation and food at the shops I am involved with.)

Many will receive tips of over 300 baht a day. Some will only work for 8 hours a day (4pm-midnight). Some will not work every day by choice.

I agree with a couple of posters who actually address my original post.

Economically the street level income of Thai has gone up.

It is only time then that will see an increase in the price of massages (and other labour intensive services) to fund increasing rents and incomes.

Interesting times ahead.

Thanks again for all your comments.

to be slightly more positive, there is still a big gap (gross margin) between average prices and the direct labour and product costs but the issue for many massage shops / spas is that they are too focused on maximizing that gross margin per hour / customer and forget about overheads. therefore they set high prices and fight to minimize costs which together means the customer gets a bad deal, which in turn means less demand, low capacity utilization and failure to maximize profit.

with regards to the concern about rising staff costs due to economic development, i agree this is a concern for all businesses especially those reliant on labour, but it is far more relevant for lower margin more commodity type businesses in industries subject to global competition (e.g. toothpick manufacturers). the flip side is that as thais become more prosperous, thai consumers will have more disposable income to spend on services like massage / spa treatments.

[celso]

I went to Health Land yesterday in Asok, plenty of burly old ladies sat around not doing a lot. Actually it was very quiet - not many customers. I noticed the same in some shopping malls, I wonder if there are many tourists staying away at the moment?