Constitution Court opens first hearing of 2-trillion baht loan bill

[webfact]

Constitution Court opens first hearing of 2-trillion baht loan bill



BANGKOK: -- The Constitution Court today opened the first hearing of the 2-trillion baht loan bill to rule whether it is against the Constitution.

The controversial loan bill was forwarded to the court for ruling by the former Parliament president Somsak Kiartsuranont if any section of the bill is against Section 169 Paragraph 1, and Section 170 of the Constitution.

Former opposition leader Abhisit Vejjajiva questioned its legitimacy as the bill allows the Finance Ministry to seek a huge loan to finance mega transport infrastructure notably the high-speed rail project but without any details.

Mr Abhisit and government defenders of the loan bill will appear at the court to testify at the hearing.

The bill passed final approval by the Senate at 02.30 a.m. on November 20 with a vote of 63 to 13.

It earlier passed the House of Representatives with a vote of 287 to 105 on September 21.

But the bill was stalled pending the ruling by the Constitution Court after the opposition leader sought court’s ruling before it becomes effective.

The loan bill came under attack by the opposition party with claim that it would provide huge fiscal burdens for future generations with and estimated additional 3 trillion baht in interest over the course of 50 years. The burden of paying off this massive loan rests on the current and future taxpayers, children and their grandchildren.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/constitution-court-opens-first-hearing-2-trillion-baht-loan-bill/


-- Thai PBS 2014-01-08

[robblok]

I hope they are able to derail this bill.

If you want to invest in infrastructure that is good, but make good plans and make sure there is accountability. Doing it off the books only invites even more graft and the PTP is corrupt enough as it is.

Everyone knows that this loan was also to support the rice scam.

I have no problems with investments if opponents are allowed to check the spending.. not like this.

[tomacht8]

Hopefully the court judges with a variety of parliamentary requirements to be met in the future, no matter who is in power at the moment.

Like for all future budgeting processes they make it compulsory for all future governments, that

- the use of money for project proposals are accurately represented in detail and coherent on the last baht.

- the use of money for project proposals is described in detail for all people publicly documented and visible

- Public monthly or quarterly reports on Finance and project progresses.

- Public invitation for project proposals and at least three competitive compare offers.

- Project completion reports including all expenses with receipts.

- a strong supervisory committee composed of members is formed by all parties,

to control the entire investment process without disabilities and time delay restrictions.

The results of the process and progress checks are presented to the parliament.

The members of the supervisory body should rotate so that corruption is impossible or more difficult.

When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

Democracy requires transparency and not dubious vote in the middle of the night for the largest credit since the existing of Thailand,
with a term of 50 years. In fact, affected at least three generations in a row.

With compound interest, it is then 6 trillion baht.

This government has no ethics and no morals to society.

Edited January 8, 2014 by tomacht8

[Thaddeus]

The bill passed final approval by the Senate at 02.30 a.m. on November 20 with a vote of 63 to 13.

Would it have passed if the rest of the Senate members who were told to go home had been there?

[ikke]

Hopefully the court judges with a variety of parliamentary requirements to be met in the future, no matter who is in power at the moment.

Like for all future budgeting processes they make it compulsory for all future governments, that

- the use of money for project proposals are accurately represented in detail and coherent on the last baht.

- the use of money for project proposals is described in detail for all people publicly documented and visible

- Public monthly or quarterly reports on Finance and project progresses.

- Public invitation for project proposals and at least three competitive compare offers.

- Project completion reports including all expenses with receipts.

- a strong supervisory committee composed of members is formed by all parties,

to control the entire investment process without disabilities and time delay restrictions.

The results of the process and progress checks are presented to the parliament.

The members of the supervisory body should rotate so that corruption is impossible or more difficult.

When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

Democracy requires transparency and not dubious vote in the middle of the night for the largest credit since the existing of Thailand,

with a term of 50 years. In fact, affected at least three generations in a row.

With compound interest, it is then 6 trillion baht.

This government has no ethics and no morals to society.

Right, this and former governments has no ethics to society , and will never have, as it is in the Thai culture....

But the only government that really invested in huge infrastructure in Thailand was and is the Taksin governments, airport(s), highway, airport link, sky trains, all what we see and use of high end infrastructure, so hopeful also high speed rail system.

During the years of undemocratic government with Abhisit as PM, nothing was build up, only debts.

Let's wait to what the court comes up with, maybe there is a good financial plan and the payback of the loan could be done by income from the investments, so not to quickly with calculating for tax payers in generations.

[antimuds]

Thailand will be in more debts if this 2 trillion project pass. Currently thailand is is still in heavy debts. How much can u pay from the income? Building railways that don't carry passengers don't earn much. Thai people won't benefit from this..only work and work and pay more tax. They will be involve in this debt as time goes on. Thai government don't even have enough money to pay farmers for their rice. How to pay back the loan?

[antimuds]

In a democratic country, government do investments to benefit the people, even if people need to pay tax , they are still using the facilities that the government built or invest in. Who the hell will take a train costing you 2000+ baht per trip?

[MaiChai]

Hopefully the court judges with a variety of parliamentary requirements to be met in the future, no matter who is in power at the moment.

Like for all future budgeting processes they make it compulsory for all future governments, that

- the use of money for project proposals are accurately represented in detail and coherent on the last baht.

- the use of money for project proposals is described in detail for all people publicly documented and visible

- Public monthly or quarterly reports on Finance and project progresses.

- Public invitation for project proposals and at least three competitive compare offers.

- Project completion reports including all expenses with receipts.

- a strong supervisory committee composed of members is formed by all parties,

to control the entire investment process without disabilities and time delay restrictions.

The results of the process and progress checks are presented to the parliament.

The members of the supervisory body should rotate so that corruption is impossible or more difficult.

When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

Democracy requires transparency and not dubious vote in the middle of the night for the largest credit since the existing of Thailand,

with a term of 50 years. In fact, affected at least three generations in a row.

With compound interest, it is then 6 trillion baht.

This government has no ethics and no morals to society.

Right, this and former governments has no ethics to society , and will never have, as it is in the Thai culture....

But the only government that really invested in huge infrastructure in Thailand was and is the Taksin governments, airport(s), highway, airport link, sky trains, all what we see and use of high end infrastructure, so hopeful also high speed rail system.

During the years of undemocratic government with Abhisit as PM, nothing was build up, only debts.

Let's wait to what the court comes up with, maybe there is a good financial plan and the payback of the loan could be done by income from the investments, so not to quickly with calculating for tax payers in generations.

You really believe this?

[DLock]

"We need it because have no money to pay the Farmers, no money to buy tablets, no money to buy votes, no money for an election campaign...and no money for shopping"

[Thaddeus]

Hopefully the court judges with a variety of parliamentary requirements to be met in the future, no matter who is in power at the moment.

Like for all future budgeting processes they make it compulsory for all future governments, that

- the use of money for project proposals are accurately represented in detail and coherent on the last baht.

- the use of money for project proposals is described in detail for all people publicly documented and visible

- Public monthly or quarterly reports on Finance and project progresses.

- Public invitation for project proposals and at least three competitive compare offers.

- Project completion reports including all expenses with receipts.

- a strong supervisory committee composed of members is formed by all parties,

to control the entire investment process without disabilities and time delay restrictions.

The results of the process and progress checks are presented to the parliament.

The members of the supervisory body should rotate so that corruption is impossible or more difficult.

When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

Democracy requires transparency and not dubious vote in the middle of the night for the largest credit since the existing of Thailand,

with a term of 50 years. In fact, affected at least three generations in a row.

With compound interest, it is then 6 trillion baht.

This government has no ethics and no morals to society.

Right, this and former governments has no ethics to society , and will never have, as it is in the Thai culture....

But the only government that really invested in huge infrastructure in Thailand was and is the Taksin governments, airport(s), highway, airport link, sky trains, all what we see and use of high end infrastructure, so hopeful also high speed rail system.

During the years of undemocratic government with Abhisit as PM, nothing was build up, only debts.

Let's wait to what the court comes up with, maybe there is a good financial plan and the payback of the loan could be done by income from the investments, so not to quickly with calculating for tax payers in generations.

How has anything you mentioned benefited most ordinary Thai people?

More affordable health care and education would have been better wouldn't it. (hmmmm)

[Scamper]

The fallout of two and half years of preposterous Pheu Thai governance has left a trail of massive corruption. And it's all coming to roost. Indeed, in any other country, the idea that 2 trillion baht could be approved without any details as to how it is allocated is no accidental strategy on the part of this administration. It is tailor-made for corruption. And it's now ended up at the Constitutional Court, along with a string of other massive improprieties awaiting judgement. The question is at what point does the Yingluck administration sink by the sheer weight of them.

[antimuds]

The ship will sink as more people gets involved.

[xminator]

In related news, constitution court rules that it is against the constitution to have a constitution.

[ekkamai]

In a democratic country, government do investments to benefit the people, even if people need to pay tax , they are still using the facilities that the government built or invest in. Who the hell will take a train costing you 2000+ baht per trip?

Who needs a new hight-speed train?

They should invest in bringing the existing train lines up to date. That might make sense.

[Thait Spot]

The bill passed final approval by the Senate at 02.30 a.m. on November 20 with a vote of 63 to 13.

Would it have passed if the rest of the Senate members who were told to go home had been there?

Quite right. And not the first time the PTP cheated on the vote.

I would expect that the CC would take into account other midemeaours from this bunch and ban the lot of them from politics along with their bumbling leader.

[Baerboxer]

The bill passed final approval by the Senate at 02.30 a.m. on November 20 with a vote of 63 to 13.

Would it have passed if the rest of the Senate members who were told to go home had been there?

That is the million dollar question my friend.

Clearly, PTP didn't think so which is why they cheated many senators out of their right to votes. Standard PTP behavior. Simply lie.

[tomacht8]

Hopefully the court judges with a variety of parliamentary requirements to be met in the future, no matter who is in power at the moment.

Like for all future budgeting processes they make it compulsory for all future governments, that

- the use of money for project proposals are accurately represented in detail and coherent on the last baht.

- the use of money for project proposals is described in detail for all people publicly documented and visible

- Public monthly or quarterly reports on Finance and project progresses.

- Public invitation for project proposals and at least three competitive compare offers.

- Project completion reports including all expenses with receipts.

- a strong supervisory committee composed of members is formed by all parties,

to control the entire investment process without disabilities and time delay restrictions.

The results of the process and progress checks are presented to the parliament.

The members of the supervisory body should rotate so that corruption is impossible or more difficult.

When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

Democracy requires transparency and not dubious vote in the middle of the night for the largest credit since the existing of Thailand,

with a term of 50 years. In fact, affected at least three generations in a row.

With compound interest, it is then 6 trillion baht.

This government has no ethics and no morals to society.

Right, this and former governments has no ethics to society , and will never have, as it is in the Thai culture....

But the only government that really invested in huge infrastructure in Thailand was and is the Taksin governments, airport(s), highway, airport link, sky trains, all what we see and use of high end infrastructure, so hopeful also high speed rail system.

During the years of undemocratic government with Abhisit as PM, nothing was build up, only debts.

Let's wait to what the court comes up with, maybe there is a good financial plan and the payback of the loan could be done by income from the investments, so not to quickly with calculating for tax payers in generations.

“Right, this and former governments has no ethics to society”

I agree

To lament the past, who built which road, is interesting for historians, but helps now little.

Much more important is what is happening today and in the future.

The bill for the loan was exactly 4 pages long. Without reasonable load testing and

without accurate conceptual content and without a projection is such a loan application itself unconstitutional and not only the circumstances!

There are far more important things you can do with that money, for example,

Schools and hospitals modernize, to ensure drinking water supply, repair roads and environmental protection.

The state money should benefit all Thais equally and not only a few.

[theslime]

Hopefully the court judges with a variety of parliamentary requirements to be met in the future, no matter who is in power at the moment.

Like for all future budgeting processes they make it compulsory for all future governments, that

- the use of money for project proposals are accurately represented in detail and coherent on the last baht.

- the use of money for project proposals is described in detail for all people publicly documented and visible

- Public monthly or quarterly reports on Finance and project progresses.

- Public invitation for project proposals and at least three competitive compare offers.

- Project completion reports including all expenses with receipts.

- a strong supervisory committee composed of members is formed by all parties,

to control the entire investment process without disabilities and time delay restrictions.

The results of the process and progress checks are presented to the parliament.

The members of the supervisory body should rotate so that corruption is impossible or more difficult.

When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

Democracy requires transparency and not dubious vote in the middle of the night for the largest credit since the existing of Thailand,

with a term of 50 years. In fact, affected at least three generations in a row.

With compound interest, it is then 6 trillion baht.

This government has no ethics and no morals to society.

Right, this and former governments has no ethics to society , and will never have, as it is in the Thai culture....

But the only government that really invested in huge infrastructure in Thailand was and is the Taksin governments, airport(s), highway, airport link, sky trains, all what we see and use of high end infrastructure, so hopeful also high speed rail system.

During the years of undemocratic government with Abhisit as PM, nothing was build up, only debts.

Let's wait to what the court comes up with, maybe there is a good financial plan and the payback of the loan could be done by income from the investments, so not to quickly with calculating for tax payers in generations.

Airport has been on the cards long before Thaksin and did you know one of the runways was substandard when it opened,corruption. not enough toilets were built when it opened,crruption. highways, I seem to recall plenty of highways before Thaksin, same with sky train planning well down the track,airport link, hmm, most international airports have links, but does the link actually go to the Terminals?

[Loles]

OK, OK, but where is the money ... ?

[timber]

.They can't pay for the rice, but can borrow 2 trillion for questionable ventures. Maybe buy a retirement hotel in Dubai?

[DrTuner]

They couldn't nail Yingluck with the amnesty one, perhaps this'll stick. There's still the rice scheme and many more to go through, I suppose the problem is Y was so often absent, she actually had very little to do with any governing

[steveromagnino]

Right, this and former governments has no ethics to society , and will never have, as it is in the Thai culture....

But the only government that really invested in huge infrastructure in Thailand was and is the Taksin governments, airport(s), highway, airport link, sky trains, all what we see and use of high end infrastructure, so hopeful also high speed rail system.

During the years of undemocratic government with Abhisit as PM, nothing was build up, only debts.

Let's wait to what the court comes up with, maybe there is a good financial plan and the payback of the loan could be done by income from the investments, so not to quickly with calculating for tax payers in generations.

The reason for investment in infrastructure is basically because that's the best time to skim, plus it would be a good way to disguise lack of economic growth.

- airport indeed was a Thaksin white elephant, for which we overpaid about 2X what it was worth, probably more, and it is questionable whether it is fit for purpose (since it has already reached full capacity and lacks things like bathrooms etc as a result of all the corner cutting TRT did to increase their skim) - the claims that there was not much out of order is mostly because many of the civil service involved are terrified/part of the problem

- highways were mostly built prior to TRT, they did add a few in the areas they have lots of votes for I guess

- airport link is a financial disaster and huge failure - indeed this was created by TRT and passes and stops right past the former PM's wife's SC Asset development for no logical reason, part of a censure against TRT in 2004 from memory

- sky trains were built pre and post TRT, TRT only really got involved with trying to buy it so they could skim the cash out of it

- you didn't mention it, but underground MRT was built mostly pre TRT and all underway pre TRT, TRT only really got involved with first changing the specs (for skim mostly, resulting in some of the teething problems early on)and gifting the in station media contract which was already signed with TRIADS to How Come Entertainment, which coincidentally belongs to Panthongtae, the son of Thaksin

- the over the river BTS past Saphan Thaksin and other extensions indeed took far longer than it should have as a result of TRT, who blocked the extension for as long as they could as they fought to try to take control of it from the Democrat controlled BMA, the ongoing new routes and the new carriages via the BMA were all put together and while it is true PT were the government when it opened in late 2011, they had little to do with getting it all going

It's highly questionable that 'delivery of fresh fruit to Hua Hin' which was the first attempt of PT to justify the high speed rail is going to ensure that the system stacks up at all, if it is anything like SRT then for sure, it is going to be a total waste of time, and burden us with enormous costs for our lifetimes.

If it makes sense, let the private sector build it. If you want us (the taxpayers) to pay for it, then any government must show us why it makes sense to us, not just to the rich politicians going developments in Hua Hin, for example who are using our money to make their own developments more successful. Why we should pay for it without being even shown the cost/benefit analysis or what it will actually cost by writing a blank cheque, I don't know.

Many tax payers would rather have minimal infrastructure investment, than haphazard stupid investment which costs so much. Especially since the government gave all their own business a reduction in corporate tax rate, it really is only the salary people that are stuck paying high taxes.

Edited January 8, 2014 by steveromagnino

[cup-O-coffee]

Funny, isn't it.

All this hokus pokus about the Thaksin family, and we have right under our noses yet another scheme to fill the coffers of all the crooked politicians and their acolytes.

This seems to almost be a weekly event. Have these people ever really done anything in the last 10 years from all of those trillions and trillions in grants, loans, schemes, etc?

No! I think this Thaksin thing is simply a ruse to get keep people distracted.

[Skywalker69]

"We need it because have no money to pay the Farmers, no money to buy tablets, no money to buy votes, no money for an election campaign...and no money for shopping"

Also, no money for Thai Airways.

[fvw53]

Can somebody clarify if the Bank of Thailand (= Central Bank) has an influence in such mega loans?

I believe that the Bank of Thailand performed well since its existence but I never understood who controls this central bank: one can find the name of the Governor...but who are the others?

[thhMan]

And the train is in whose interest?

[Thaddeus]

And the train is in whose interest?

The children already have a cowboy outfit, now they want a train set.

[Ulic]

Sheer lunacy to not have oversight and transparency on a project by project basis in a country were both

major parties are corrupt and the only thing keeping the corruption cost to 30% is the feeble level of

oversight and transparency that currently exists. This borrowing bill could be what puts Thailand in the

sub Saharan Africa category of corruption.

[mikemac]

Hopefully the court judges with a variety of parliamentary requirements to be met in the future, no matter who is in power at the moment.

Like for all future budgeting processes they make it compulsory for all future governments, that

- the use of money for project proposals are accurately represented in detail and coherent on the last baht.

- the use of money for project proposals is described in detail for all people publicly documented and visible

- Public monthly or quarterly reports on Finance and project progresses.

- Public invitation for project proposals and at least three competitive compare offers.

- Project completion reports including all expenses with receipts.

- a strong supervisory committee composed of members is formed by all parties,

to control the entire investment process without disabilities and time delay restrictions.

The results of the process and progress checks are presented to the parliament.

The members of the supervisory body should rotate so that corruption is impossible or more difficult.

When public funds are used, then the public has the right to see what the representatives of the people plan to do with the money and how it was used.

It must be prevented that a country can be completely plundered by a few unethical people just because they are currently in power.

Democracy requires transparency and not dubious vote in the middle of the night for the largest credit since the existing of Thailand,

with a term of 50 years. In fact, affected at least three generations in a row.

With compound interest, it is then 6 trillion baht.

This government has no ethics and no morals to society.

Right, this and former governments has no ethics to society , and will never have, as it is in the Thai culture....

But the only government that really invested in huge infrastructure in Thailand was and is the Taksin governments, airport(s), highway, airport link, sky trains, all what we see and use of high end infrastructure, so hopeful also high speed rail system.

During the years of undemocratic government with Abhisit as PM, nothing was build up, only debts.

Let's wait to what the court comes up with, maybe there is a good financial plan and the payback of the loan could be done by income from the investments, so not to quickly with calculating for tax payers in generations.

During the years of undemocratic government with Abhisit as PM, nothing was build up, only debts.

I don't think you have been paying close attention to what the PTP has been doing to the country in recent times.

The debts they plan to rack up will make the rice scam and all their other fiscal disasters look puny, and our grandchildren will be still be paying it off long after we are gone.

Your inane and one-eyed view of things is not going to make the PTP sins go away, so stop the bs !

[connda]

I hope they are able to derail this bill.

If you want to invest in infrastructure that is good, but make good plans and make sure there is accountability. Doing it off the books only invites even more graft and the PTP is corrupt enough as it is.

Everyone knows that this loan was also to support the rice scam.

I have no problems with investments if opponents are allowed to check the spending.. not like this.

You know, they're still paying off the debt created during the 1997 crash. <deleted> are they thinking about by taking on another 2T ฿ in additional debt? The only upside I see is that the baht will be debased faster against the dollar (euro, pound, etc), well, at least for awhile. Any actual infrastructure repairs will be cosmetic or politically motivated while making the amart richer in the process. How about limited access (clover-leaf onramps and offramps) super-highways spanning North to South and East to West with funds set aside for the purchase of highway patrol cars and Westernize police training for traffic control and the enforcement of moving violations. That might actually save a few lives. Wait a minute! I lost my mind...it's about the money. Never mind.