New refrigerator earthing. I'm in disbelief

[mayview]

I'm researching a replacement refrigerator and am investigating a renowned international brand model. I needed additional information from the retailer and specifically asked about the plug attached to the fridge. I was surprised that the response advised me that it came with a "standard 2 pin plug" . I suspected it's an Euro style plug with the earth connector running alon the sides of the plug so I asked for confirmation suggesting that a non-earthed fridge is potentially very dangerous. Apparently not.

Here's the reply:

<blockquote>As refer to our earlier discussion that concern with xxxxxxx round plug -2pin.

I’ve got a confirmation from xxxxxxx that their refrigerator comes with 2pin plug.

Also, I’ve check with some other refrigerator brand; they also have a similar kind of plug.

Yet, this 2 pin plug have met the requirement of TISI (Thai Industrial Standards Institute).

This is because, the earthing wire is installed in the refrigerator. Therefore, refrigerator

legs is acts like a ground medium where it deliver an excess electric shock to the ground.

As an optional, this ground wire could be extended out and plug in into the earthing socket (if available)</blockquote>

I think that the explanation is wrong and would like an opinion on the rationale

Edited January 8, 2014 by mayview

[Forkinhades]

You need to earth it buddy.

[Forkinhades]

Post a pic, and we can advise. Back of the fridge where the cable comes from

[canman]

Most likely this is a class 2 or double insulated appliance. If it comes from the manufacturer with a 2 pin plug it is unlikely an earth connection is required. The bit about the earth through the legs is BS.

[Crossy]

Short answer:- the response is &lt;deleted&gt;.

Longer answer:- If your assertion is correct and the unit comes with a Euro (Schuko) plug you can either remove it and replace with a local 3-pin (watch the warranty) or get an earth adaptor like this from HomePro.



If your fridge has a 'normal' 2-pin plug check if it's double-insulated and therefore doesn't need a ground, it should have a symbol like this on the rating plate if it is;-

If you can't find that symbol, and it has a 2-pin plug, nothing to stop you running a separate ground wire from a screw on or near the compressor to the ground pin of a 3-pin plug.

[thomasteve]

It will probably come with a 2 pin and sliding earth contact (European 'Schuko' type) plug and in addition may have a separate loose green or green /yellow wire. That's how our fridge/freezer was supplied.

You should remove the fitted plug and fit a 3 pin one suitable for Thailand or use the fitted one and connect the separate earth wire to an earthing ground rod.

Crossy's advice above is correct. I have never seen a double insulated (Class 2 Insulation) refrigerator only Class 0 or Class 1 both of which require an earth connection.

Edited January 8, 2014 by thomasteve

[h90]

last time I move the things I saw they (it might be the washing machines and not the fridge) have a green/yellow wire connected to the frame which should be grounded.

Considering that the plugs with 3 pins are usually NOT connected to the earth in Thailand it makes sense.

I saw on the installation they drilled a hole in the floor (between the ceramic tilts), put in that plastic thing for fixing a screw in a wall, put in a screw (maybe 20 mm long) and wrapped the wire around it. I am complete sure that will safe me from any electric problem

[Forkinhades]

OK joking aside, electricity is serious stuff and can kill. Whislt we all need humour in our life, lets try and keep the comments sensible.

BTW the screw needs to be 100mm :D:blink::p 5 silly icons after a tongue in cheek remark might work. lol

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ignis]

In the kitchen have 2 large fridges 21 and 23 Q size, have a large 15.2 Q chest freezer 23 Lt Microwave and a 13 KG size washing machine all are 2 pin, but all have a length of green cable fixed with a scew on the back of all...

The 23 Q size fridge, Microwave and the washing machine are new in the past 6 months, but still the same as the 10 year old ones they replaced. [Hitachi and Panasonic so not some cheap make]

Edit: as a PS, a couple of years ago had a problem with something I came here with from the UK, plug as normal for UK was 3 pin... un doing the screw on the plug to make sure the cable was connected OK was in for a supprise, have also found the same thing here with a big Kenwood Mixer bought here, that had a UK plug on it... inside the plug was a normal round 2 pin plug !! the UK type plug was like an adapter conversion, and of course NO earth [you just feel safe because it has a 3 pin plug]

Edited January 9, 2014 by ignis

[masuk]

When I equipped my kitchen in a rented house 18 months back, nothing, repeat nothing, came with an earthed wall socket.

I had a look at a large electrical retailer's stock, and their kitchen appliances had five (5) different plugs between them.

At my expense, I had the kitchen re-wired and 3 pin, earthed sockets fitted. Landlords must love us farangs, paying to have their houses join this century.

Also, for some strange, ancient reason, houses are still built and fitted with a light in the middle of the room. This way, you're guaranteed to be working in your own shadow.

Is there such a thing as Thai/ASEAN standards laid down for electrical wiring of domestic properties?

[eddie61]

who needs earth when you believe in heaven

[Crossy]

Our washing machine (LG) and refrigerator (Mitsubishu) both have a two pin plug. They are not double insulated.

I grounded the frame with a cable to an earth rod. The two units are in a different buildings. Later I connected the two earth rods with each other.

Are you sure the washer hasn't got a Schuko plug, many have?

Be careful linking ground rods if they are a distance apart. A local lightning strike could set up a significant earth potential gradient and cause a LOT of current to flow in that link wire.

[Stuart21]

AFAIK - willing to be corrected with evidence - an ELCB (earth leakage circuit breaker - a similar device is a GFCI ground fault circuit interrupt) when working will provide the same protection or better than an earth. Much easier to fit - just on active & neutral at main box. When an imbalance is detected, less than sufficient to kill, then the device trips cutting both active & neutral. Find & fix defective appliance or wiring, reset.

Some swear that only 'earths' protect properly, but they conveniently overlook that earths can fail as well.

[wayned]

When I equipped my kitchen in a rented house 18 months back, nothing, repeat nothing, came with an earthed wall socket.

I had a look at a large electrical retailer's stock, and their kitchen appliances had five (5) different plugs between them.

At my expense, I had the kitchen re-wired and 3 pin, earthed sockets fitted. Landlords must love us farangs, paying to have their houses join this century.

Also, for some strange, ancient reason, houses are still built and fitted with a light in the middle of the room. This way, you're guaranteed to be working in your own shadow.

Is there such a thing as Thai/ASEAN standards laid down for electrical wiring of domestic properties?

I'm sure that this will go over big, but:

I'm an American, and most houses do not have any ceiling lights in rooms other than the kitchen, bathrooms, halls and dining rooms. The other rooms are fitted with switchable electric plugs where you can plug in the electric lamp of your choice and place it wherever you like without having a ugly useless fixture installed in the middle of the ceiling.

Granted, the switchable plug is always on the wrong wall!

[Jeffrey346]

Get this guys... Yesterday I bought a new water dispenser. Clarte model SW318HCB. The water bottle is below and uses a pump to fill the hot and cold water tanks... No lifting bottles.

The use manual states you must earth this product BUT Clarte supplies this unit with a 2 prong cord with a 3rd hole for the earth pin but no pin.

I called Clarte in BKK and they confirmed that earth is required and was advised to buy a pin at Homepro. I asked, if earth is required why don't you supply the proper cord? No response from the person I was talking too.

This only happens in Thailand....

[thailandbeachisland]

Eating meat also is potentially very dangerous. Hope you are safe <3

[shaurene]

Hi, most places have the wall sockets for 2 pin only, had the same problem with the mother in laws house, I earthed the fridge by drilling a hole in the floor and connected the earth wire around a screw and screwed it into the floor which works ok.

[Crossy]

This is a Schuko plug, many devices are still being supplied with this plug, the ground is carried on the side contacts, or (in France) by a pin in the outlet (that's what the hole is for):-



You can get an adaptor from Homepro to correctly ground a Schuko if you have 3-pin outlets:-

Looks like this when fitted:-

[Sealbash]

This only happens in Thailand....

You have not been in Indonesia lately?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Crossy]

And this is the plug from our refrigerator. The washing machine has the same plug type. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If either of those appliances have metal casework (or a metal tub in the case of the washer) and are not indicated as double-insulated, you should run a green wire from a screw on the chassis either to the earth pin of your outlet, or to a local earth rod.

[mayview]

Thank you all for your responses and opinions.

Following up with the seller he asked the distributor for a copy of the manual and it states that in fact there is a ground wire separate and tucked in the back of the chassis and a sketch of this which is attached as an image to this reply.

4. Earthing wiring.

Ground this refrigerator to prevent electric shock and noise interference. Always ground this refrigerator when using it in places with high humidity or moisture. (Please consult with retailers.)

I will replace the 2 core/2 pin cable/plug with a 3 core/3 pin cable/plug and connect the earth wire of this to the chassis of the fridge.

The power usage of the fridge is stated as 150W with an inverter, Will it be OK to use 3 core 0.75 mm² twisted wire flex? (The power sockets are all earthed back to the power board and circuits protected by RCD's.)

Once again thank you for the information and workarounds.

Edited January 10, 2014 by mayview

[masuk]

This only happens in Thailand....

You have not been in Indonesia lately?

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I had the same problem in all 4 houses I rented over 6 years in Java. In South Sulawesi, our maid's nephew was electrocuted, when he hung a damp towel over a bare live wire in the roof area.

I was told by an old-timer that to save costs, insulated wires are only used externally and bare wires are run inside. It was almost impossible to buy 3-core cables for domestic use, and the one I found was imported from Japan.

One house I checked out actually used 2-core telephone wires for room lighting! Hopefully Thailand has slightly better standards.

BUT, all new commercial buildings, hotels etc were being fitted with BS35 (UK) outlets.

The Chinese have adopted the Australian/NZ standard plug, used throughout the South Pacific.

[Crossy]

I will replace the 2 core/2 pin cable/plug with a 3 core/3 pin cable/plug and connect the earth wire of this to the chassis of the fridge.

The power usage of the fridge is stated as 150W with an inverter, Will it be OK to use 3 core 0.75 mm² twisted wire flex? (The power sockets are all earthed back to the power board and circuits protected by RCD's.)

At 150W 0.75mm² flex will be just fine but to be safe check the size of the existing 2-core flex.

[TTALENTINO]

I recently purchased a new fridge and it came with a 2 prong plug but also had about 3 meters of ground wire in a drawer that was provided to earth the appliance. There was a grounding screw on the back of the appliance frame which I connected one end to and the other end got a hardwire connection to the green ground wire in the J-box for the fridge. All ground wires in my home run back to a ground bar on the breaker box and then on to a copper grounding rod buried 2m into the earth.

I was a little shocked myself that this very expensive 19.4cubic foot fridge did not simple come from the factory with a standard three prong plug. I get that not all outlets in Thailand are grounded, but I would have thought on a top model fridge they would assume that the house the fridge is being installed in has grounded outlets not the other way around.

Minor incovience to me to make it right but not a big deal and the parts to make it right were supplied just a bit of extra labor and thought to get it done.

[Jitar]

Hi, most places have the wall sockets for 2 pin only, had the same problem with the mother in laws house, I earthed the fridge by drilling a hole in the floor and connected the earth wire around a screw and screwed it into the floor which works ok.

That's probably why some power extension boards have 3 pin sockets and a 2 pin plug. Convenient if you don't mind separate or no earth.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Jitar

[jacko45k]

Translation on OP.

'I don't know what I am talking about but will tell you anyhow'.

[hellodolly]

When I equipped my kitchen in a rented house 18 months back, nothing, repeat nothing, came with an earthed wall socket.

I had a look at a large electrical retailer's stock, and their kitchen appliances had five (5) different plugs between them.

At my expense, I had the kitchen re-wired and 3 pin, earthed sockets fitted. Landlords must love us farangs, paying to have their houses join this century.

Also, for some strange, ancient reason, houses are still built and fitted with a light in the middle of the room. This way, you're guaranteed to be working in your own shadow.

Is there such a thing as Thai/ASEAN standards laid down for electrical wiring of domestic properties?

Yes there is Thai/ASEAN standards laid down for electrical wiring of domestic properties.

Problem is no one can find them.

[falangadang]

Yep,.. we had the same with the brand new dishwasher. The electrician got a shock from it when setting it up for us.

We had to put our own 3 pin earth plug on it as the standard Thai was a 2 pin and most unsafe.

Amazing Shocking Thailand!

[davidkas]

For the most part this topic is irrelevant, most houses and apartments are only wired with 2 core. So you can fit a 3 pin socket change plugs to your hearts content but you are not getting any earthing. The houses do not have earthing, you would need to have the building rewired with 3 core and an 'earth spike' fitted outside. Just an observation, not trying to flame or antagonize.

[falangadang]

For the most part this topic is irrelevant, most houses and apartments are only wired with 2 core. So you can fit a 3 pin socket change plugs to your hearts content but you are not getting any earthing. The houses do not have earthing, you would need to have the building rewired with 3 core and an 'earth spike' fitted outside. Just an observation, not trying to flame or antagonize.

That is a good point and one which home purchasers and renters need to be aware of when moving in and setting up home.

However,.. its not a mute topic at all when the OP is referring to the fact that big ticket appliances are not being shipped with standard three point pins as they should be.

Anyone plugging in an appliance into a wall that only has a 2 pin plate is asking for trouble.

At the very least, a good precaution is to have a tip switch box fitted to compensate for bad wiring configurations.