Midnight Curfew Rule Postponed For Further Review

[george]

Cont'ed from this topic: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6752

Midnight curfew rule postponed for further review

BANGKOK: (The Nation) -- Thai night entertainment establishments operators have won a reprieve from a government plan to impose a midnight curfew, according to government official.

Last month the Cabinet approved a regulation that will close all venues outside specified entertainment zones, including bars, clubs, restaurants and massage parlors, at midnight instead of 2 a.m. in its campaign to curb youth crime and restore traditional values.

Today, the government appeared to backtrack on its plan, saying it was still open to review.

The Cabinet will reconsider this matter during its meeting on tomorrow, government spokeswoman Sansanee Nakphong said.

--The Nation 2004-03-01

[george]

Thailand may back off plan to curb nightlife

BANGKOK (Reuters) - The Thai government looks ready to back off its plan to curtail the country's lively nightlife and notorious sex industry, officials say.

On the day the nightclubs, bars, discos and massage parlours were due to have their opening hours shortened, the officials said the cabinet would be given a new proposal on Tuesday which would allow existing institutions to open and close without change.

"The new regulations will not have retroactive impact or hurt existing bars," Vichien Chavalit, an Interior Ministry official who helped draft the rules, told Reuters.

They would be applied only to new ones, officials said.

"We forwarded the draft to the cabinet a while ago. If the cabinet discusses and approves it tomorrow, it will become effective by March 15," Vichien said.

Under the plan due to go into effect on Monday , massage parlours -- previously allowed to operate 12 hours a day and close by midnight -- would have been restricted to opening just eight hours a day and close at midnight.

Discos, nightclubs, go-go bars and massage parlours in specially designated zones would have been allowed to operate for seven hours a day.

Some would have been allowed to stay open until 1 a.m. and the rest would close by 2 a.m. -- the current limit.

Those outside the zones would have been able to open only three to six hours a day and should shut their doors at midnight.

The new draft was to be discussed by the cabinet on Tuesday and the plan was for the rules to become effective by mid-March, officials said.

The original cabinet decision had enraged club owners who said hundreds of thousands of jobs would be threatened and had lobbied the government publicly and privately to reverse it.

Bar owners, who had complained the regulations threatened to drive them into bankruptcy, now told Reuters they were satisfied with the government compromises.

"We've talked to senior people in the government and they have assured us that existing bars will operate as usual," said Somyot Suthangkool, owner of a popular Bangkok nightclub and chairman of an industry body with 50,000 members.

"Only the new bars will have to follow the new rules," said Somyot, who complained last month millions of waiters and singers would lose their jobs if the regulations took effect.

But some operators said the distinction between existing and new bars was likely to offer opportunities to corrupt officials.

"How could police officers keep track of all bars in their districts," asked Chuwit Kamolvisit, who owns six upscale massage parlours in Bangkok and has alleged publicly he paid $300,000 (160,000 pounds) a month in bribes to senior policemen.

"The new massage parlour owners will have to bribe officers to have operating hours the same as their rivals," he said.

--Reuters 2003-03-01

[dr_Pat_Pong]

180 degree turnarounds are making the Government look stupid. This isn't an isolated case. Thailand is the laughing stock of the world.

[britmaveric]

Typical - anyone think now they reversed themselves that this will be a forgotten issue now? I think personally they want to forget this and do so rather quickly.

[Maverick]

Now that many of the international press have reported the clamp down (with glee) this about turn will attract a lot of attention [from the international press] as they attempt to understand and report the situation.

[robsamui]

Sukhumvit Square?

The APEC conference and the hospitals closed, street vendors thrown out and the stray dogs butchered?

2,000 drugsters shot by the police (1 day after the dept Prime Minister stated it was 46)??

The chicken 'flu lies and subsequent exposure?

The BKK Post editor sacked for criticising the Government?

If Mr Taksin wants to be in the First World and play with the big boys, he better turn Thailand upside-down and inside-out first, because he hasn't caught on to the fact that it is the structure of the society that qualifies for this, not how many hotels, mobile phones and Satelite channels Thailand has.

Rob

[The Gentleman Scamp]

So now the government has egg on it's collective face, which may contain the bird flu virus...

Som nam naa.

[Moving]

First, the proposed "fix" to the problem they have created sounds almost as stupid as the initial proposal.

Second, I have heard and read numerous comments of Thai police and other officials taking bribes...many related to the government's bungling of the proposal to limit hours of operation for bars and massage parlors. A little corruption is to be expected but it appears that this practice is accepted as the "law of the land" and if true to this extent than it really doesn't make any difference what type of laws or legislation are passed if they cannot be enforced. Owners will simply pass this expense along to the customers in way of increased prices.

[sillyfools]

So funny.

Yesterday and today on the cover of cnn.com : "New curfew to tame Thai nightlife".

The day itself not.

[El_D]

Why doesn't the bird(flu)brain PM get some schmuck (whose votes he bought for him) to introduce stupidity like this into Parliament, then allow the Parliament to do its job?

Even if it wasn't the PM who decided to start this then whichever idiot Cabinet minister could have done the same.

Some obscure bill/proposal floating around Parliament would have hardly raised an eyebrow amongst the international press and tourist organizations, and could have just as easily succombed to the apparent death it has succombed to without pissing off half the Kingdom and most of the visitors here who were following the story.

The entire issue of what time bars had to close never really bothered me. It was the Draconian and completely un-democratic way that it was going to be imposed.

Why bother with provinces and local elections if such simple matters as bar closing times are dictated from the "Ruling Council" (ie: the Cabinet with Saddam Shinawatra at its head)

Democracy isn't perfect, but handing out supposed executive decrees sure doesn't help the process, especially when the decision-makers waffle the way they do.

Maybe Thaksin is trying to butter up to "Mr. Waffle" John Kerry, as GW Bush is a "worthless friend".

[Dove]

Maybe somebody has finally come to their senses that they do not have the resources to enforce the curb.

[Sick Boy]

None of the bar/club owners that I've spoken to have received any official conformation of the new closing times.

One would have thought that the government would at least have the decency to let them know what <deleted> is going on.

Too much like hard work I suppose.

[Bit Beefy]

Hopefully this complete change of plan will be confirmed.....

[PlanetMan]

Oh, to be a sheep in a flock with such a shepard.

Beam me up Scotty. No intelligent life here.

[ASIC]

First we are angry about the midnight closing hours. Now that it seems it has been reversed, we are still agry. What's wrong with us Farang? Let's all praise Taksin for once and say thank you for not destroying our nightlife. Thank you Dear Leader. Thank you. We are not worthy!

ASIC

[BlackJack]

GOD !!!!!!

I

LOVE

THIS

COUNTRY

[Phil Conners]

Actually I think the zoning idea is great. Why do we need to have booming music in the residential areas? In Pattaya all of the intertainment area btwn beach and 3rd rd and north and south pat. rd are zoned. Limit entertainment to this area and do away with closing hours. Problem solved, everybody happy.

[ASIC]

I agree with madsere. The zones and the closing hours are two different issues.

The zones are a good and workable idea, but why have they chosen zones only frequented by 1) horny Thai politicians, 2) tourists and 3) drugged up Thai teenagers? None of the zones provides a place for the average Joe.

If it's not possible to create zones at the existing areas of nightlife, would it not be possible to give the exisiting places time to move to a zone, or find some other reasonable solution (i.e. 3 to 5 years). Toxin's wife has some land for sale I heard and with Toxin in power for 20 years more, 3 to 5 years should sound quite reasonable.

By the way, is there any proof statistically that shorter closing hours will reduce crime?

I think the biggest problem is the illegally opened bars, karaoke places, etc. I would love to see them closed. There is one such open-air bar, open till 6 am every morning, just next to my old office. It's full of Thais (and an lone alcoholic Swede) drinking and dancing in the street with the CD player blasting at max volume. Despite several complains, police has never done anything.

There are also many "bamboo huts" with dim lighting in the areas at Rangsit just next to the major universities. They are all open during the day, serving alcohol to lazy students. But hey! That's still legal.

If the police followed up based on the current laws, there wouldn't be a need for such draconical measures as a curfew, but I guess noone can demand that the men in brown ever does anything according to the law?

ASIC

[MekhongKurt]

APIC asks a very relavent question: "By the way, is there any proof statistically that shorter closing hours will reduce crime?"

Short answer: no, not according to my admittedly relatively low-level sources. But those sources are people on the street confronting have to deal with this garbage if it comes about, deal with it in their faces.

My home country's experiment (America's) with Prohibition last century showed the foolishmess of such an approach. And I speak as a former police officer and security officer in the United States.

Something that has not been commented on enough in forums I regularly visit is the cultural issue. Thailand has a derived culture, to which Thais have made contributions. But there are Thai -- spelled "Tai" people in mainland China who are also classifed there as a so-called "minority nationality," and from whom many people in modern-day Thailand spring.

For Thailand to have a derived culture is not to say it is bad. After all, I myself am almost entirely of European stock (other than my 1/64th American Indian blood), but American by birth, and I am in the vast majority of my countrymen, so I'm hardly in a position to criticize Thailand or any other country whose culture originally came from somewhere else.

I can, and am, saying it's a load of garbage for government officials to talk, moan, weep, and carry on about violations of "Thai culture."

Most of the economic and political ruling groups in Thailand are of either Chinese or Indian descent, though they are not always very happy to admit it, especially regarding Chinese ancestry.

The current administration in well posed to do great good for the Kingdom, given its commanding control of the Parliament. I will become very encouraged when that administration does something both worthy and substainable (unlike the bankrupting 30-baht health scheme) tp help the nation -- even if it remains anti-foreign.

[Thaksin]

Somebody has written: "180 degree turnarounds are making the Government look stupid. This isn't an isolated case. Thailand is the laughing stock of the world."

Not to be antagonistic here, but ALL governments, all over the planet, have made major about-turns, on all matters of policy. It's what they do best! Additionally, I'm not sure that beyond Thais themselves, and a number of "farangs" interested in that part of the world have any idea about Thai social policy. Not really a laughing stock I'm sure.

[britmaveric]

Yes most Govt(s) shift policies 180 degrees, but I think most ferang and thai were pissed at the arbitrary way the government tried to enforce these new laws.

If they want to impose laws like this then they should have a referendum on the matter. I think the govt knows that most Thai(s) would want longer closing times rather than shorter.

Good idea to section off businesses in an entertainment zone, but impractical to enforce something in 2months without creating hardship. (1-2 years would be more likely scenario)

[pschef]

I mus agree with the last post, and surely we as farrang have no idea about Thai sociality. I for one have no idea, but I never got a penny for my vote. Just imagine the world with no 100 for a vote, 30 baht per year with no social security. who is kiding who?

[impy_la_blimpy]

. . . . .breathes a sigh of relief

[spike]

i appluad the government of Thailand in recognizing the economic impact the midnight closing would have had on the life of the Kingdoms citizens. previous posters have mentioned egg on the face of Thailand and that Thailand is now a laughing stock for the about face on this issue, but, i disagree. i only wish other nations were as quick to correct a situation that could have impacted the lives of millions of people.

[castelleone]

I am sure there are also ,,thinking,, members of the so called Thai parliament and maybe somebody even found out that they were scoring an own goal by issuing all these new regulations.

Now again 15 days to think about. Let`s see what will come out of this new brain storming.

[astral]

Maybe somebody has finally come to their senses that they do not have the resources to enforce the curb.

Oh come on!

There are plenty of policemen to collect bribes for looking the other way.

Sorry did you say "enforce"?

Since when did the law get enforced in Thailand, except on a very selective way?

[astral]

Of course zoning is needed, but not just in the night life industry.

It needs to be applied to all areas and all types of business.

Who wants noisy bars, or factories etc in residential zones.

However that requires planning and enforcement, neither of which are strong Thai suits.

[Kringle]

[marquess]

Interesting that the Bangkok Post has remained stum about all this. Even though it has been reported on the BBC. Perhaps they have really been muzzled?

[Guest timbee]

HUMBUG! Methinks I smell a government in panic.

TRT's LIST OF BOOBS ... could we start a forum for list postings on this subject - forced and unforced errors ... and sleights of hand?

I for one don't subscribe to the popular view that Toxsin will be Fuhrer for years to come: in fact, I wonder whether this time next year TRT will still be able to contest local council elections with three candidates all insisting they are the only "official" party candidate ... the wannabes may not be falling over themselves to join "the party most likely to flop" by then!