Thait Spot Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim of the protesters is to get rid of the shinaclan. Yingluck can propose anything she wants, but anything other than her stepping down will not be accepted by the protesters. Here's an idea. Why not hold an election and see what the electorate actually wants. If she loses the election, she won't be PM. Even someone as cycloptic as thee can see that PTP broke Thai democracy along with several laws. These issues need to be fixed before Thailand can move on. Besides, any election sans Democrats will never be accepted Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thait Spot Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim of the protesters is to get rid of the shinaclan. Yingluck can propose anything she wants, but anything other than her stepping down will not be accepted by the protesters. The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces so they can be in power for the next 30 years. I would call that a return to dictatorship. Don't forget, a lot of the protesters are not part of the Democrat party. Just tired of government corruption and lies. This isn't about the Democrats, though they are leading the protests. If it was just to get them back in power, the protesters wouldn't be there. The ONLY aim of the protests are to get the Democrats back in power. Maybe the protesters just dont know that. The aim is democracy. Not the criminality and corruption of the PTP and its family Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Don't forget, a lot of the protesters are not part of the Democrat party. Just tired of government corruption and lies. This isn't about the Democrats, though they are leading the protests. If it was just to get them back in power, the protesters wouldn't be there. Well, why not put your claim it to the test at the ballot box? Why are you afraid of an election? I'm not afraid of anything. I'm no fan of any political party here. They are all corrupt. Just trying to put a different perspective on some comments here. My village manager is a red shirt. He's been attending the protests on his day off for the past few months. Why? He pays taxes and is tired of the government wasting his money. Unfortunately, the dems have hijacked these protests, which started out as peaceful, civil disobedience towards a very corrupt government. Read Voranai's article today in the Post. Really lays things out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halion Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 For those who truly wish to see the malevolence of this government simply look at how little the PTP has done with regard to stability in the south because of they nature of their vote. Democracy is a much used word which has no value in this country. Like so many things it is a cosmetic condition for superficial face within a culture that worships power and money and will adopt any form of manipulation to achieve and hold on to that power regardless of the civil unrest that it causes. All this Thai brothers and sisters rhetoric that flows so freely from the Shins is pure manipulation lacking in substance and sincerity. It's purpose is purely to secure the vote and cling on to the power and privileged.in a country gridlocked by greed and stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thait Spot Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Its Sunday morning. A question for the Red Brigade If the Red Shirts are grass roots supporters of poor farmers, why do they have no support in the south? Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRSoul Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 They did the exact same in 2006. The voting system was changed in order to water down the weight of the votes in the North. News to me. Care to enlighten us with a link, or even a description of the changes, made by the Thaksin government in power at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangkokheat Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 as harsh as it sounds, perhaps a civil war will change the course of politics and corruption in thailand and is what is needed 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thait Spot Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 PM may opt to issue resounding belch. Commentators widely agree that such a course would be the brightest statement from her premiership Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
culicine Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces Do you have anything to support your unfeasible contention? They did the exact same in 2006. The voting system was changed in order to water down the weight of the votes in the North. Detail just how this was done, or provide a link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPH Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 They did the exact same in 2006. The voting system was changed in order to water down the weight of the votes in the North. News to me. Care to enlighten us with a link, or even a description of the changes, made by the Thaksin government in power at the time? As far as I remember the new constitution was written after the military coup under influence by the Democrats. I will try to find some links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thait Spot Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces Do you have anything to support your unfeasible contention? They did the exact same in 2006. The voting system was changed in order to water down the weight of the votes in the North. Detail just how this was done, or provide a link. www.redpropaganda.com Masters of the art of deceiving the poorly educated Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millwall_fan Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces Do you have anything to support your unfeasible contention? They did the exact same in 2006. The voting system was changed in order to water down the weight of the votes in the North. n It really is as simple as that: the party of the ruling elite can't garner enough votes by democratic means. They believe these peasants in the North and North East shouldn't be allowed to vote anyway, as they aren't clever enough to know what's best for them. Ispo facto they shouldn't vote or at best their votes shouldn't count as much as the clever people in Bangkok who know best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thait Spot Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces Do you have anything to support your unfeasible contention? They did the exact same in 2006. The voting system was changed in order to water down the weight of the votes in the North. n It really is as simple as that: the party of the ruling elite can't garner enough votes by democratic means. They believe these peasants in the North and North East shouldn't be allowed to vote anyway, as they aren't clever enough to know what's best for them. Ispo facto they shouldn't vote or at best their votes shouldn't count as much as the clever people in Bangkok who know best. So, according to your geography, Thailand ceases south of Bangkok. P'Lok saw the light. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRSoul Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 They did the exact same in 2006. The voting system was changed in order to water down the weight of the votes in the North. News to me. Care to enlighten us with a link, or even a description of the changes, made by the Thaksin government in power at the time? As far as I remember the new constitution was written after the military coup under influence by the Democrats. I will try to find some links. There was only one abortion of an election in 2006, called by Thaksin to deflect criticism of his corruption, and marked by TRT setting up dummy parties to run in single candidate electorates because they couldn't get 20% running unopposed. Strangely enough, the 2007 constitution was written in, you guessed it, 2007. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhizBang Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Yingluck is brainstorming.... She provided the storm, I guess. And who provided the brain? No one. And therein lies the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emptyset Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Its Sunday morning. A question for the Red Brigade If the Red Shirts are grass roots supporters of poor farmers, why do they have no support in the south? Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app It's a bit of a straw man isn't it? Is anyone here actually claiming that the red shirts are simply grass roots supporters of poor farmers? Does anyone here actually believe this? Why do they have no support in the South? Simple answer is that the South is entrenched Democrat territory. lol. On the poor farmer thing though, there are more poor farmers in the NE and the N. The South is much more urbanized, wealthier, different types of farming (rubber mainly), industry, less of the 'peasant' rice growing farmers who make up the largest proportion of the economy & work force north of BKK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim of the protesters is to get rid of the shinaclan. Yingluck can propose anything she wants, but anything other than her stepping down will not be accepted by the protesters. You are a broken record on this. Just the same post repeated over and over. What is your suggestion for resolving the conflict? Broken record, you talking about yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emptyset Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 They did the exact same in 2006. The voting system was changed in order to water down the weight of the votes in the North. News to me. Care to enlighten us with a link, or even a description of the changes, made by the Thaksin government in power at the time? Not sure what CPH means, but a vote in the North at present counts for as much as a vote in the BKK. There are those who support the protesters who want that to change though, obviously. The changes the junta made were mainly to try to limit power of parliament by strengthening "independent" agencies, making sure the senate was filled with anti-Thaksin folk and that kind of thing. They tweeked the electoral system by going back to multi-seat constituencies, which in theory, reduces the possibility of local MPs to coerce and vote buy. The Democrats changed in back to single seat in 2011 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smedly Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim of the protesters is to get rid of the shinaclan. Yingluck can propose anything she wants, but anything other than her stepping down will not be accepted by the protesters. The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces so they can be in power for the next 30 years. I would call that a return to dictatorship. That is complete rubbish and you know it - any changes would have to be approved by a national referendum - all the people I wish people here would stop posting blatant lies intended for deception - something that PTP are extremely good at 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab4 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces Do you have anything to support your unfeasible contention? Well to be honest they already did when abhisit amended "Sections 93-98 of the current 2007 constitution to raise the number of House members to 500 from the current 480 with a smaller number coming from constituency representation and a larger number of party-list MPs. Under the proposed change, 375 of the 500 House members will come from constituency representation while the other 125 from party-list representation. Currently, the 480 House members consist of 400 constituency representatives and 80 party-list representatives." http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90851/7285017.html In the previous general elections in 2007, the Democrat Party had lost the constituency vote but won the proportional party list vote That didn't work, obviously, so now they're coming back for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spare5 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim of the protesters is to get rid of the shinaclan. Yingluck can propose anything she wants, but anything other than her stepping down will not be accepted by the protesters. Bhichai and the other Democrats can push their unelected council as much as they want, but any government that results from a process which doesn't involve an election will not be accepted by those who support democracy. Respect my vote: 1. The paymaster and his clan should have though about that subject when in the past they said that if people don't vote for us we don't take care of you (or words to that effect). 2. You want me to respect your vote? Well that's fine, but you must also respect my right to protest. The Suthep will screen and select 400 MPs, so good and pure of corruption that all the "People" in Thailand will live in happiness forever. Even the Red shirt will agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FangFerang Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Look at the picture. These are not thugs or movie stars (both groups who are much less attractive than the peopole shown). These are the beautiful people who are extraordinarily ordinary. These are real Thai people, not the standaerd loons on television. I hear their voices. I see their eyes. I see them.....and give them each a smile (even the two men almost hidden in the background). Edited January 12, 2014 by FangFerang 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces so they can be in power for the next 30 years. I would call that a return to dictatorship. As opposed to the PTP who illegally purchase votes from the poor Northern rice farmers, while lying to them and ripping them off, so they can be in power for the next 30 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scamper Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 It is ironic that the Yingluck administration, that has been so adamant that - in a caretaker capacity - it has the authority to delegate hundreds of billions of baht to the rice farmers to secure the election after it has already been called - and yet - are terribly reticent to assume that it has the authority to initiate a process that is clearly aimed at disabling the Thaksin machine. But apparently - with their back to the wall - all things are indeed possible. Whether or not the executive decree occurs is uncertain. But one thing is clear - no one really believes the sincerity of the Yingluck administration. They appear only willing to act under duress. The drive towards reform in recent months has been stunning. So much so in fact, that Brichai's proposals - which would have seemed terribly far-fetched just two months ago - now seem the most plausible way forward - postponement of the February 2 election, formation of a cabinet that would not function longer than eighteen months, a concurrent reform process that is the result of agreement between all parties as well as all sectors of society, culminating in a national referendum, followed by a new national election. As the February 2 election will result in a stillborn parliament, unable to open - this proposal does many things. It diffuses the situation. It gets the people off the streets. But most importantly, it engages the public for the first time in a genuine reform process - a process that will clearly mark the end of the Thaksin era, and the beginning of a new emancipation, public input, and new-found energy into Thai political life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab4 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces so they can be in power for the next 30 years. I would call that a return to dictatorship. That is complete rubbish and you know it - any changes would have to be approved by a national referendum - all the people I wish people here would stop posting blatant lies intended for deception - something that PTP are extremely good at Funny you should mention the referendum, it seems that the dems and abhisit only support a referendum when it doesn't involve their party's policies Activist Ruangkrai Leekitwattana applied to the electoral watchdog yesterday for a probe into Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva in connection with plans for a referendum on changing the Constitution. In a petition to the Election Commission, Ruangkrai said he suspected Abhisit violated the charter in opposing the holding of a referendum vote on amending the Constitution. "Abhisit circulated his open letter calling for Thai citizens to boycott the referendum," he said. Such a letter may be construed for two serious violations - defrauding the public in order to mislead voters and framing the ruling Pheu Thai Party, he said. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Complaint-over-Abhisits-remarks-about-referendum-30196754.html Yesterday, the PAD gathered in front of parliament to protest against the government-supported plans to amend two parts of the the constitution. The first amendment is to Section 190 of the constitution. The other amendment is to Section 190 of the Constitution which will move Thailand from multi-member constituencies (2 or 3 MPs per constituency) consisting of 400 MPs and 80 party list MPs to 375 single member constituencies and 125 party list MPs BP: Actually, the Democrats will benefit from the change to 125 party list MPs as they received almost the same number of votes as PPP in 2007 (whereas they received 7 percent less than Puea Thai on the electorate vote) so it is not surprising the proposal to increase the number of party list MPs from 80 to 125. BP: PAD can target Abhisit as the Democrats are now full-blown supporters of the proposed constitutional amendments, but it is interesting that the PAD are focusing on the more narrow aspect that referendum on the amendments is needed first. Technically, under the constitution, a referendum is not needed, but given the 2007 Constitution passed by referendum PAD are making the political argument that a referendum is necessary this time around. BP: So why is no referendum needed now? The reason for the change is clear. It may not be passed (and thus upset the coalition partners) and it will take too long (and thus upset the timing of an election in the first half of next year), but these are hardly reasons that Abhisit can admit to…. http://asiancorrespondent.com/42930/yellow-shirts-turn-on-abhisit/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggold Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim of the protesters is to get rid of the shinaclan. Yingluck can propose anything she wants, but anything other than her stepping down will not be accepted by the protesters. The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces so they can be in power for the next 30 years. I would call that a return to dictatorship. The democrats will not succeed in that. They will have to work hard to convince the voters in the north of the just cause of their fight. The missunderstood fugitive still seems to be a hero for many. The dems will have to prove to the people up north what the shinaclan is all about. I would suggest that maybe the people up north are becoming aware of what the Shinaclan are about, and I don't think Thaksin needs help in showing Just what he is all about either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FangFerang Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Don't forget, a lot of the protesters are not part of the Democrat party. Just tired of government corruption and lies. This isn't about the Democrats, though they are leading the protests. If it was just to get them back in power, the protesters wouldn't be there. Well, why not put your claim it to the test at the ballot box? Why are you afraid of an election? Well, perhaps a televised debate of the government's policies, a month before the election, would be a nice start. Yingluck's policies would have been torn to pieces - the rice scam in particular. Really want to see Abhisit vs Yingluck in front of a national audience. Same as is done in Australia and elsewhere. Not just some stupid billboard advertising 15K a month minimum salary - the consequences of that were obvious, but the government should have defended it in the public arena. Yes, this is a good idea, but at the end of February, when all television signals are slated to become digital, the poor will not be able to watch. I simply cannot see how all the people in the rural areas will have instant access to a converter box, or a digital television. And the coupons being offered are a tear in the ocean. The debate is going to go silent for them very soon....that will serve the aims of both sides, neither of which can even set foot on the moral high ground, much less claim it--it would burn their feet. Edited January 12, 2014 by FangFerang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces Do you have anything to support your unfeasible contention? Does common sense count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggold Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 The aim of the protesters is to get rid of the shinaclan. Yingluck can propose anything she wants, but anything other than her stepping down will not be accepted by the protesters. The aim for the Democrats is to rewrite the constitution to hinder or water down the weight of the votes from the Northern Provinces so they can be in power for the next 30 years. I would call that a return to dictatorship. That is complete rubbish and you know it - any changes would have to be approved by a national referendum - all the people I wish people here would stop posting blatant lies intended for deception - something that PTP are extremely good at go easy with them Smedly, the ignorance of some of the posters matches the ignorance of those they seem to support! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ulysses G. Posted January 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) As opposed to the PTP who illegally purchase votes from the poor Northern rice farmers, while lying to them and ripping them off, so they can be in power for the next 30 years. That pretty much sounds like both sides, now doesn't it? Personally, I rather see Abhisit in power, but the Thai people do not agree with me and, the truth is, that if neither side paid for votes, the reds would still win handily. Edited January 12, 2014 by Ulysses G. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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