Teacher with a degree vs a teacher without a degree

[Eddy B]

I would like to see how a teacher with a degree or one without, would deal with a class of 40 students. Say Anuban, pratom or highschool classes. Without a Thai co-teacher/help and make a lesson work?

Edited January 12, 2014 by Eddy B

[culicine]

Both would such if they have never taught a class before.

The content is another issue. Put a professor fresh off the boat in front of 40 Thai kids and he'll be running for the door at the end of the lesson.

[Thaddeus]

Both would such if they have never taught a class before.

The content is another issue. Put a professor fresh off the boat in front of 40 Thai kids and he'll be running for the door at the end of the lesson.

They would be running for the door well before the end of the lesson.

[NeverSure]

Thai culture is different. Some survive it as a teacher and some don't, regardless of education. You have to be very ready to put everything you ever thought about school aside, and adapt. Teaching is a gift as well as an education. People skills are a gift and some never have it.

I think it is impossible to predict, with no other information, who will "survive." You have to survive the school culture or you can't teach.

It also depends a lot on the school. Some schools make it dang near impossible, while others pretty much let you do your thing.

I really admire anyone who can succeed at teaching Thai children for perhaps 30k per month in the rural areas.

[chonabot]

My first class contained about 55 16 year olds, it was madness.

I then made the mistake of asking a Thai co-teacher to assist with my second class.

It was akin to being in a Thai version of that old UK TV Sitcom - Mind Your Languge.

After a month or so, my lesson plans were starting to work, at least about half of the class were responding.

I'll not pretend that I made a difference to those 1000 kids over the 2 semesters, but I tried.

On the theme of becoming an entertainer/clown, this does actually help somewhat.

I ran a singing contest that was based on 'Thailand's got Talent' and this turned into a minor success.

They learned some English language pop songs and we held an end of year finals in front of 4000 other students (Whether they liked it or not )

One thing I did learn about teaching during that year was the following:

• Always have 2 lesson plans for each class.
• After lunch and during lesson 8, the kids will be harder to teach than at any other time.
• Never expect a Thai co-teacher to let you take any credit for any ideas you may have.
• If you volunteer to help your co-teachers, they will expect this to be a regular occurence thereafter.
• Controlling 50-60 M3 kids is possible, but only if they respect you.

I have a BA, I am a NES and I have completed 2 TEFL courses, one in the UK and the other in Bangkok.

Even though I had a little classroom exposure prior to the first lesson, nothing can prepare you for this shock.

It was the hardest job that I've ever had, and I kind of loved it.

Edited January 12, 2014 by chonabot

[Scott]

The variable of a degree would probably not be the important factor in dealing with a class of 40 students. Experience would be the most important variable.

[recom273]

Going slightly OT .. But this has always been my observation

"• Controlling 50-60 M3 kids is possible, but only if they respect you."

Successful TT's receive 'love' from their S's, even if they are strict (or brutal), they have a 'trick' or 'skill' and thats how they get them to work.

If you gained respect from your kids in that year then you definitely made a difference, to both the students teachers in years to come. Thanks.

Having a degree in photoshop doesnt automatically provide that skill, nor is it apparent to some non-degree NES who gain their popularity by letting the kids run riot.

I heard from one director, that a non-degree teacher will work harder, sees any opportunity in the longer term and has more transferrable life experience skills than a degree holder. Every case is individual.

[bundoi]

I think the question of whether a Thai co-teacher is required depends on the objective of the particular class (for example, conversation or grammar, reading, writing, listening or speaking), and the level of fluency the NES has in Thai.

If the class is for M5 or M6 who are preparing for university, then clearly a university background is going to be a great help to the NES.

But from the point of view of classroom management, for a class that size experience is going to be more important than a degree any day.

[umbanda]

The variable of a degree would probably not be the important factor in dealing with a class of 40 students. Experience would be the most important variable.

I strongly believe that love for teaching, and passion about you do it is more important than experience and any degree....Make a big difference in somebody's life, even for one in a hundred,.......says everything about what means to be a teacher.

By the way...During my short experience teaching English for free in a Thai Government Elementary School, Pichai Wittaya in Lampang, I had the opportunity to play a 1988 movie to "my" kids and some school's teachers. I knew that for many of them, the movie will be boring and many exited the room......So many....Was expected...and I didn't care.

At the end, a teacher, a Filipino Math Teacher, come to me to tell me that the movie give her meaning for her life....

Mission accomplished..

The name of the movie " Stand and Deliver ". Part of the life of Jaime Escovedo....He was a foreigner Math Teacher at a high school in LA...probably the school with the "lowest" level teenagers students in America......

This movie was filmed in 1987 when he still a teacher....That why the movie will not show that Mr. Escovedo becomes a Secretary of Education for the Sate of California in the 2000s.

Edited January 13, 2014 by umbanda

[Mario2008]

The dergee might determine if you get the job (and work permit) or not, but doesn't say much about quality or experience.

[sam sen]

i dont understand what point the OP is making, if someone has a degree or not is irrelevant in respect of someone's classroom management skills.

if you have a PGCE, CELTA or other teaching qualification you will have studied classroom management and therefore be better equipped to manage a class of students.

its like saying 'i'd like to see how someone with a degree would get on being a dentist/doctor/surveyor'

[culicine]

The degree will untlimately be important if you need to teach a content based subject, such as maths, physics, and perhaps english literature. At the level most Thai kids operate, a TEFL is adequate and a minimum for teaching ESL english. Most teachers I know really only 'mature' after about 3 to 5 years. Before that, there is a steep learning curve. The TEFL certainly doesn't teach everything. Especially in an EP when the kids have a god grasp of the language and can ask quite tricky questions.

[isawasnake]

I find the kids relatively easy to deal with. The problem is dealing with co-workers here, they are God awful, or can be. Depends where you are at.

[Yooyung]

Better to be the guy with a degree and no experience than the guy with no degree/ no experience. Once both of them have run out of the classroom, the guy with a degree will have more options. Like it or not that piece of paper helps get you legal here. The guy with no degree will not only have to put up with the large classes, he will also have the pleasure of needing to do endless border runs. It doesnt mean the guy with no degree will not turn into a good teacher. It does mean though, that he is up against it in regards to gaining stability, getting the better jobs and maintaining his sanity.

I know,I seen both sides of the coin....

Edited January 13, 2014 by Yooyung

[Shipwreck]

Some of the worst/laziest teachers at my school are the ones with the most Ed. degrees. Some of the best are the ones with no Ed. degree, but a lot of passion.

Anyone's ability to teach is not based on the degree they have, but on the passion they have in the classroom. Unfortunately the Thailand Ministry of Education doesn't see it that way.

[PankajAmrit]

What are you talking about?

I do this everyday five or six times. No problem at all.

By the way, I do have a degree.

[NoshowJones]

I think the question of whether a Thai co-teacher is required depends on the objective of the particular class (for example, conversation or grammar, reading, writing, listening or speaking), and the level of fluency the NES has in Thai.

If the class is for M5 or M6 who are preparing for university, then clearly a university background is going to be a great help to the NES.

But from the point of view of classroom management, for a class that size experience is going to be more important than a degree any day.

There is no need to have any experience in Thai. You must only use English in the classroom. Some school directors are strict about this.

[Showbags]

Does having a degree mean you are a qualified teacher...regardless of if you can teach or not...just askin.

Cos at my kids school there is a couple of unqualified teachers, one never even taught before I believe, International school....and my grudge is I am paying for good qualified teachers and paying a lot.

However, I place no importance on a piece of paper if that paper still means a useless teacher.

I would prefer 20 outstanding unqualified teachers than 20 qualified halfwits.

[NoshowJones]

What are you talking about?

I do this everyday five or six times. No problem at all.

By the way, I do have a degree.

So you think that having a degree automatically makes you a better teacher than someone with no degree, no chance, especially if the degree is not in English. Is yours?

[lostmebike]

@EDDY B

I know of many foreign teachers that teach large classes without Thai co teachers. So what? What's the problem? Who's rocked your boat? Got fired did we? LOL

[Thaiready]

I had to prove a 4 year degree just to get the work permit....I started with 40 students 12 to 13 year old in my first class...was hard at first but made it threw 5 years.....I now teach at a University Love it

[bundoi]

al schools

I think the question of whether a Thai co-teacher is required depends on the objective of the particular class (for example, conversation or grammar, reading, writing, listening or speaking), and the level of fluency the NES has in Thai.

If the class is for M5 or M6 who are preparing for university, then clearly a university background is going to be a great help to the NES.

But from the point of view of classroom management, for a class that size experience is going to be more important than a degree any day.

There is no need to have any experience in Thai. You must only use English in the classroom. Some school directors are strict about this.

Possum I never said there was a a need to speak Thai (pls re-read the post). But there are many situations where an NES would be at a disadvantage if they did not have a Thai co-teacher and if the could not speak Thai.

It's a very big generalisation to say that "you must only use English in the classroom", I'm sure you realise this.

[bundoi]

Does having a degree mean you are a qualified teacher...regardless of if you can teach or not...just askin.

Cos at my kids school there is a couple of unqualified teachers, one never even taught before I believe, International school....and my grudge is I am paying for good qualified teachers and paying a lot.

However, I place no importance on a piece of paper if that paper still means a useless teacher.

I would prefer 20 outstanding unqualified teachers than 20 qualified halfwits.

Showbags, having a degree definitely doesn't necesssarily mean you are a better teacher, but I'm sure that in general anyone who has invested the time (and money) into the necessary educational qualifications has a much greater commitment to the profession than someone who hasn't. They would still need to get the classroom experience to become a good teacher, no doubt of that whatsoever.

By the way, where I work applicants who are very highly qualified (I would say over-qualified to teach in a village school) are rejected if they cannot demonstrate substantial relevant experience.

[tingtongteesood]

Makes no difference at all,what does is relavant experience and the personality and style of the teacher....A bit of common sense, some ingenuity and learning to read the reactions of the students is also helpful.

[smotherb]

The variable of a degree would probably not be the important factor in dealing with a class of 40 students. Experience would be the most important variable.

I agree, but perhaps the extent to which the students want to learn would be a more important factor. Unfortunately, Thai students, like Western students, are heavily influenced by their peers; and in most of the peers the desire to learn.is dormant. That may be the answer to the OP in another forum who asked why his school wanted him to entertain--sing and dance for--his students. .

[bkkrooftop]

dont think it makes a difference in teaching,, i have masters degree in linguistics, speech and language.. tons of knowledge.. but i have been in this situation and its scary.. if the kids sense fear.. its like a mouse in a python cage..ha, u have to be quick on your feet, street smart, quick witted, entertainer, and apply basic rules.. i admire anyone that is dedicated in this line of work

[bundoi]

The variable of a degree would probably not be the important factor in dealing with a class of 40 students. Experience would be the most important variable.

I agree, but perhaps the extent to which the students want to learn would be a more important factor. Unfortunately, Thai students, like Western students, are heavily influenced by their peers; and in most of the peers the desire to learn.is dormant. That may be the answer to the OP in another forum who asked why his school wanted him to entertain--sing and dance for--his students. .

Unfortunately singing and dancing doesn't do much for the motivated and/or gifted student: dumbing down is never a good thing.

Where I work there is a regular flow of students going through to uni, some to study English. Which comes back to one reason why a university (or similar) education really is important for teachers: how can you be a role model for students who are en route to uni, or how can you discuss with them matriculation, choice of faculties, college life, post-grad opportunities etc if you have no experience of it yourself?

Having said that I would be in favour of relaxing the educational requirements for NES conversational assistants on a reduced wage, as proposed by another poster the other day, but there would have to be pretty robust vetting in place.

[tetleythedog]

Both would such if they have never taught a class before.

The content is another issue. Put a professor fresh off the boat in front of 40 Thai kids and he'll be running for the door at the end of the lesson.

9 years ..never had a co-teacher, taught secondary and Uni................no problems after the first few hours, gets better every year.

[Toscano]

Having a degree only permits a foreigner to teach , but otherwise is irrelevant . You either can teach or you can't , some have a gift others don't .

Teaching large classes of unrully children must be difficult anywhere , unthinkably daunting in Thailand .

[traveler103]

I have taught 6 years in a Temple school (grades 3 through 6). I also have taught 4 years at a University. The degree is necessary to teach if you want to get your Thai Teacher's license, which I have. There are ways to get around this requirement but having the license gives you a lot of status and flexibility. When I first started teaching in Thailand, I found it difficult figuring out how to get the students to settle down and participate. However, I developed my own techniques and found it easy to get th students to behave.

I don't like having Thai teachers in my classes as they tend to distract from what I am trying to accomplish. I also find it useful to be able to speak a little Thai so you can tell the kids the English words and the Thai equivalent. The sad thing about the lower levels is that the students do not get enough time in their lives to practice English.

I don't think it is necessary to become an entertainer or clown to get the students interested. Being innovative and loving to see kids learn and perhaps give a few an opportunity to change their lives is very rewarding. Working in the lower level schools can be frustrating at times with the general isolationism from Thai teachers.

I really love teaching at the University where I not only teach English but various International Courses. The Thai teachers are great and very supportive. Like any students, you still have to gain the respect of your students. Teaching/training is a skill that one can learn and be great at without having any degrees. However, like others said here, the degree opens doors to better opportunities.