Major evidence that low carb diets not needed for long term weight loss/maintenance success

[h90]

Really? I would say the opposite is true and everyone is talking about it (where have you been hiding?).

It's not a fad, but a seriously effective way to lose weight AND help your blood sugar levels at the same time.

Somehow only half my post was published.

I usually try to keep track of things and yes, low carb has gone out of style at least in the bodybuilding and athletic circles.

Eat enough protein which is something many don't do and relatively expensive in Thailand. Eat enough good fats as well as enough of what most call the bad fats because without them the major hormones cannot be produced. eat enough carbs because without them, for unknown reasons, testosterone decreases and who wants that?

Eat a little less than maintenance, increase physical activity and healthfully lose fat the way it has been done for tens of thousands of years.

just my opinion.

Low carb has not gone out of fashion. Everyone talks about it. Very effective too - got down to single digit figures with veins popping out everywhere on low carbs/high protein. It's the diet I would choose if I wanted to get very lean.

If you have 20 kilos to lose would you do it all on a low carb? The viens showing is you being dehydrated as a low carb does that and most of us find veins to be unattractive.

I'm thinking about the common person and not specialized cases. And who is talking about it? not the pros.

viens are showing also when you aren't dehydrated....There are people who have huge visible viens other doesn't and of course they get more visible if you train and if you have low body fat.

Actually everyone who lost weight successful did it with low carb, so many people talking about it.

[tropo]

If you have 20 kilos to lose would you do it all on a low carb? The viens showing is you being dehydrated as a low carb does that and most of us find veins to be unattractive.

I'm thinking about the common person and not specialized cases. And who is talking about it? not the pros.

Talk about making assumptions. No, the veins pop when I'm under 10% bodyfat and highly trained. I'm never dehydrated. As the fat goes up, my veins start to disappear.

Of course I'm not talking about pro bodybuilders. I'm talking about normal people who don't pump their bodies full of hormones and other miscellaneous drugs. This is the health forum.

I don't go so low that I'm going into ketosis. If I wanted to drop 20 kg in a hurry, yes, I would go low carb without a doubt. You can lose weight on any combination of macronutrients, but low carb is the most efficient. Another point that should be made... anyone who needs to drop 20kg of fat to get into shape is in a seriously bad condition and it's very likely to be due to a disorder in sugar metabolism... or some other metabolic disorder. People in that condition will be very well advised to go low carb.

Don't confuse low carb with zero carb. Also the word "low" is a subjective description, not an absolute. Low carbs to one person could be high for another depending on their ratio of carb:protein:fat.

[healthbkkbkk]

"Don't confuse low carb with zero carb. Also the word "low" is a subjective description, not an absolute. Low carbs to one person could be high for another depending on their ratio of carb:protein:fat."

I was going to say much the same thing when my browser froze.

If you can get below 10% body fat and maintain a large, dense muscle mass without drugs then you're a genetic monster. I'm not saying you use anything because there are gifted individuals out there but what works for you would be ill-advised for a normal person.

[h90]

"Don't confuse low carb with zero carb. Also the word "low" is a subjective description, not an absolute. Low carbs to one person could be high for another depending on their ratio of carb:protein:fat."

I was going to say much the same thing when my browser froze.

If you can get below 10% body fat and maintain a large, dense muscle mass without drugs then you're a genetic monster. I'm not saying you use anything because there are gifted individuals out there but what works for you would be ill-advised for a normal person.

I was never in the in the body fat percentage game....wikipedia says 6-13 % for athletes (non bodybuilding) and bodybuilder at contests 2-4 %

While surely very low 10 % doesn't sound impossible to me.

[healthbkkbkk]

"Don't confuse low carb with zero carb. Also the word "low" is a subjective description, not an absolute. Low carbs to one person could be high for another depending on their ratio of carb:protein:fat."

I was going to say much the same thing when my browser froze.

If you can get below 10% body fat and maintain a large, dense muscle mass without drugs then you're a genetic monster. I'm not saying you use anything because there are gifted individuals out there but what works for you would be ill-advised for a normal person.

I was never in the in the body fat percentage game....wikipedia says 6-13 % for athletes (non bodybuilding) and bodybuilder at contests 2-4 %

While surely very low 10 % doesn't sound impossible to me.

It's under 10% WITH muscle. It is very difficult to do for 90% of humans. There are some people born with the genetic ability but those are few. usually people only get there with some chemical assistance.

[h90]

"Don't confuse low carb with zero carb. Also the word "low" is a subjective description, not an absolute. Low carbs to one person could be high for another depending on their ratio of carb:protein:fat."

I was going to say much the same thing when my browser froze.

If you can get below 10% body fat and maintain a large, dense muscle mass without drugs then you're a genetic monster. I'm not saying you use anything because there are gifted individuals out there but what works for you would be ill-advised for a normal person.

I was never in the in the body fat percentage game....wikipedia says 6-13 % for athletes (non bodybuilding) and bodybuilder at contests 2-4 %

While surely very low 10 % doesn't sound impossible to me.

It's under 10% WITH muscle. It is very difficult to do for 90% of humans. There are some people born with the genetic ability but those are few. usually people only get there with some chemical assistance.

And you think the athletes have no muscles? And as you say for "very difficult to do for 90% of humans". Why do you think Tropo can't do something that is very difficult, if he is dedicated to do it. Beside it is not that difficult to have a lot muscle and drop below 10 % for a short time. And btw. he never told that it is without chemical assistance.....only we assume that, but it doesn't came from him.

[healthbkkbkk]

"Don't confuse low carb with zero carb. Also the word "low" is a subjective description, not an absolute. Low carbs to one person could be high for another depending on their ratio of carb:protein:fat."

I was going to say much the same thing when my browser froze.

If you can get below 10% body fat and maintain a large, dense muscle mass without drugs then you're a genetic monster. I'm not saying you use anything because there are gifted individuals out there but what works for you would be ill-advised for a normal person.

I was never in the in the body fat percentage game....wikipedia says 6-13 % for athletes (non bodybuilding) and bodybuilder at contests 2-4 %

While surely very low 10 % doesn't sound impossible to me.

It's under 10% WITH muscle. It is very difficult to do for 90% of humans. There are some people born with the genetic ability but those are few. usually people only get there with some chemical assistance.

And you think the athletes have no muscles? And as you say for "very difficult to do for 90% of humans". Why do you think Tropo can't do something that is very difficult, if he is dedicated to do it. Beside it is not that difficult to have a lot muscle and drop below 10 % for a short time. And btw. he never told that it is without chemical assistance.....only we assume that, but it doesn't came from him.

Please, don't address any more comments to me. You either didn't read what I wrote or you can't understand it. Hypertrophy under 10% but you don't get it so don't try. And BTW, no one serious uses Wiki as a reference source and I am talking about farrang bodies, not S.E. Asians.

[fletchsmile]

There's some interesting stuff around on this. My 3 cents:

1. People's bodies are different and different things work for different people

2. Since I cut down on sugar a couple of years back (based on links to other diseases rather than to diet) plus cut out carbs at night time I've dropped weight without really even trying. I eat carbs day time just not often at night. Particularly around my waist, which as guys know is a losing battle after about 30. First time in years I can start to see a 2 pack - hopefully 6 in time though I'd not that vain to be really bothered, it is nice when you see the beer gut disappearing

3. In the context of this thread, when someone talks about carbs it's important to distinguish between two basic types: sugars and fibre. Sugars to me seem to have very little nutritional benefit (apart from short term energy boost) and spike blood sugar levels, affect insulin, create cravings etc and what's not used goes to fat. Fibre is far more beneficial and more slowly broken down for other benefits compared to sugar cravings and fixes. Refined sugar is a relatively new addition to the human diet over however many tens/hundred thousands of years we've been around and it was never needed before.

So I cut out sugar, watch out for it in fruit juices, other items etc, and generally avoid.

BTW: My 4th cent tip. Everything in moderation, including moderation. Meaning go out and do things to extremes sometimes if you want to. Too much moderation is in itself an extreme in my view

Cheers

Fletch

Edited May 6, 2014 by fletchsmile

[h90]

There's some interesting stuff around on this. My 3 cents:

1. People's bodies are different and different things work for different people

2. Since I cut down on sugar a couple of years back (based on links to other diseases rather than to diet) plus cut out carbs at night time I've dropped weight without really even trying. I eat carbs day time just not often at night. Particularly around my waist, which as guys know is a losing battle after about 30. First time in years I can start to see a 2 pack - hopefully 6 in time though I'd not that vain to be really bothered, it is nice when you see the beer gut disappearing

3. In the context of this thread, when someone talks about carbs it's important to distinguish between two basic types: sugars and fibre. Sugars to me seem to have very little nutritional benefit (apart from short term energy boost) and spike blood sugar levels, affect insulin, create cravings etc and what's not used goes to fat. Fibre is far more beneficial and more slowly broken down for other benefits compared to sugar cravings and fixes. Refined sugar is a relatively new addition to the human diet over however many tens/hundred thousands of years we've been around and it was never needed before.

So I cut out sugar, watch out for it in fruit juices, other items etc, and generally avoid.

BTW: My 4th cent tip. Everything in moderation, including moderation. Meaning go out and do things to extremes sometimes if you want to. Too much moderation is in itself an extreme in my view

Cheers

Fletch

Just to add: there is not much difference between very sweet fruits, honey and sugar. And back in Europe at stoneage it makes complete sense...eat everything that is sweet and as much as possible, because after autumn (with the fruits) winter comes and every kg of fat helps surviving it.

Additional the way from sugar to fat is relative far...OK body is doing it but it is some effort. BUT using sugar as energy just now and just split the fat in the fat acids, reassemble them to your needs and store them is very easy if you eat fat and sugar at the same time.

If you don't eat any carbohydrates than the liver is producing sugar from protein. If you eat some carbohydrates that get split very slow than you have a slow normal base of sugar in your blood and no spikes similar to what you would have if don't eat carbohydrates, just the easier way.

If you want some extreme results....-20 kg in 4 month, being full of muscles 1 year later you have to do something extreme.....if it is healthy is a other question....I can't live in moderation....So I just search for some targets that aren't too crazy.

[billybatson]

So much information, and counter-information when it comes to food and health. Enough to drive you bonkers. I thinks its fair to assume that everyone is different and genetics probably play a major role in how you respond to a particular diet or fitness program. I keep thinking back to that video presentation from Dr Briffa. He basically recommends a caveman diet, it just happens to be low carb but I think its more about avoiding processed foods. That seems logical enough to me.

[h90]

So much information, and counter-information when it comes to food and health. Enough to drive you bonkers. I thinks its fair to assume that everyone is different and genetics probably play a major role in how you respond to a particular diet or fitness program. I keep thinking back to that video presentation from Dr Briffa. He basically recommends a caveman diet, it just happens to be low carb but I think its more about avoiding processed foods. That seems logical enough to me.

I agree that genetics play a major role. But people fight for their ideals like it is a religion. I don't know why but some just want to win the argument. And that also on university level. So just read everything, judge yourself, try it and if it doesn't work, forget about it and try something different.

I like the caveman diet....One thing puzzles me a bit: Considering I am a caveman in middle Europe, I'll eat low carb high protein all the time beside Autumn. Autumn I can get some nice fat to survive the winter.

Sounds very logic, but than if I am a caveman in say Thailand it is complete different. All the time I'll find plenty of bananas, Mangos, Coconuts and other fruits, so it will be high carbs.

[healthbkkbkk]

I think our age difference is showing. For me, when I hear low carb diet I understand that to mean entering into a state of ketosis or just above.

I don't think many people do that these days. On the other hand cutting calories by reducing carb intake is the only way I would diet or advise another to diet but not to cut them so low as to near a ketonic State.

[Tolley]

So much information, and counter-information when it comes to food and health. Enough to drive you bonkers. I thinks its fair to assume that everyone is different and genetics probably play a major role in how you respond to a particular diet or fitness program. I keep thinking back to that video presentation from Dr Briffa. He basically recommends a caveman diet, it just happens to be low carb but I think its more about avoiding processed foods. That seems logical enough to me.

I agree that genetics play a major role. But people fight for their ideals like it is a religion. I don't know why but some just want to win the argument. And that also on university level. So just read everything, judge yourself, try it and if it doesn't work, forget about it and try something different.

I like the caveman diet....One thing puzzles me a bit: Considering I am a caveman in middle Europe, I'll eat low carb high protein all the time beside Autumn. Autumn I can get some nice fat to survive the winter.

Sounds very logic, but than if I am a caveman in say Thailand it is complete different. All the time I'll find plenty of bananas, Mangos, Coconuts and other fruits, so it will be high carbs.

I like the low carb diet but as a general diet the best one that is accurate for me at least is the blood type diet.

I am blood type A+ and the diet and foods and general disposition of a blood type A fits me down to a tee.

I really wish I was a blood type O because they are of much stronger constitution and are more suited to eating meats than type As. THey are also much better at handling stress.

[h90]

I think our age difference is showing. For me, when I hear low carb diet I understand that to mean entering into a state of ketosis or just above.

I don't think many people do that these days. On the other hand cutting calories by reducing carb intake is the only way I would diet or advise another to diet but not to cut them so low as to near a ketonic State.

yes you are right.......Two things are always mixed.

Low carb....just reducing the carbohydrates...which helps for sure and it isn't extreme.

Low carb....go full into ketone body burning ... The fat is burned away like in a dream, but it is rather extreme. The body burns ketone bodies instead of sugar, which changes just about everything.

And all, including myself are discussing these 2 things together, but they are complete different. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Kitsune]

The key word to this is complex

I'm on high carb diet and lost 25pounds

But it's not refined carbs such as white pastas or rice which translate as sugar in your body.

- It's complex wholes starches,that the food industry has not reduced to one element.

- brown rice, millet, quinoa, lentils, beans etc

- loads of leafy greens

- fruits

Edited May 16, 2014 by Kitsune

[Wrong Turn]

Bumping this thread, because I like discussing this topic.

Jingthing:

As it's obvious that LOW CARB diets are still quite popular (and also controversial)

I don't think low carb is controversial at all. - it works. Period.

It works for some people.

it works for me.

Everyone is different.

[Kitsune]

Bumping this thread, because I like discussing this topic.

Jingthing:

As it's obvious that LOW CARB diets are still quite popular (and also controversial)

I don't think low carb is controversial at all. - it works. Period.

It works for some people.

it works for me.

Everyone is different.

it works for everyone at first, but not in the long run.

[Wrong Turn]

Bumping this thread, because I like discussing this topic.

Jingthing:

As it's obvious that LOW CARB diets are still quite popular (and also controversial)

I don't think low carb is controversial at all. - it works. Period.

It works for some people.

it works for me.

Everyone is different.

it works for everyone at first, but not in the long run.

I know a few people quite well who went low carb. They lost the weight and are keeping it off.

I think for some people it works long term and is successful. 2 of my friends have been low carb for over 10 years.

[Kitsune]

Bumping this thread, because I like discussing this topic.

Jingthing:

As it's obvious that LOW CARB diets are still quite popular (and also controversial)

I don't think low carb is controversial at all. - it works. Period.

It works for some people.

it works for me.

Everyone is different.

it works for everyone at first, but not in the long run.

I know a few people quite well who went low carb. They lost the weight and are keeping it off.

I think for some people it works long term and is successful. 2 of my friends have been low carb for over 10 years.

Yes you are losing weight because of the loss of calories intake, but it's not just about weight; How about constipation, headaches, halitosis, muscles cramps, diarrhea and general weakness.

These are all signs that there is something really wrong about the Atkins diet

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-09-03-atkins-study_x.htm

[JSixpack]

Bumping this thread, because I like discussing this topic.

Jingthing:

As it's obvious that LOW CARB diets are still quite popular (and also controversial)

I don't think low carb is controversial at all. - it works. Period.

It works for some people.

it works for me.

Everyone is different.

it works for everyone at first, but not in the long run.

Works in the long run, too. Why lie? http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130607-904498.html

Edited May 17, 2014 by JSixpack

[JSixpack]

Yes you are losing weight because of the loss of calories intake, but it's not just about weight; How about constipation, headaches, halitosis, muscles cramps, diarrhea and general weakness.

These are all signs that there is something really wrong about the Atkins diet

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-09-03-atkins-study_x.htm

Temporary carb addiction withdrawal symptoms. Good!

[Wrong Turn]

One thing to note on low carb / no carb eating lifestyles is the concept of carb cycling.

Carb Cycling seems to be for people who are physically active and/or workout regularly.

The point is that the Carb Cycling diet is a low carb / no carb diet that requires and recommends adding Carbs in specific amount to your body on certain days. The protein and fat ratio is also critical.

http://www.cutandjacked.com/Carb-Cycling-Made-Easy

[Jingthing]

Works in the long run, too. Why lie? http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130607-904498.html

That's an advert. Not very convincing.

[JSixpack]

Works in the long run, too. Why lie? http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130607-904498.html

That's an advert. Not very convincing.

(1) Bueno NB, Vieira de Melo IS, Lima de Oliveira S, Rocha Ataide T. Very-low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet v. low-fat diet for long-term weight loss: a meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials. British Journal of Nutrition 2013; FirstView Article pp1-10. Published online: 07 May 2013. DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1017/S0007114513000548.

(2) Hession M, Rolland C, Kulkarni U, et al. (2009) Systematic review of randomized controlled trials of low-carbohydrate vs. low-fat/low-calorie diets in the management of obesity and its comorbidities. Obes Rev 10, 36-50.

(3) Nordmann AJ, Nordmann A, Briel M, et al. (2006) Effects of low-carbohydrate vs. low-fat diets on weight loss and cardiovascular risk factors: a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials. Arch Intern Med 166, 285-293.

[Wrong Turn]

I vary my carb intake.

Yesterday was a higher day (but moderate in general as a whole) - I don't count the carbs, I just know based on what I eat.

Today was basically a no-carb day.

Tomorrow, I'll hit the gym for lifting so I'll have carbs for pre and post-workout in careful amounts and in complex carbs. But it's still on the lower end.,

[h90]

I vary my carb intake.

Yesterday was a higher day (but moderate in general as a whole) - I don't count the carbs, I just know based on what I eat.

Today was basically a no-carb day.

Tomorrow, I'll hit the gym for lifting so I'll have carbs for pre and post-workout in careful amounts and in complex carbs. But it's still on the lower end.,

Musli with oatmeal and protein powder in the morning of the workout day is doing wonders......

[Wrong Turn]

I vary my carb intake.

Yesterday was a higher day (but moderate in general as a whole) - I don't count the carbs, I just know based on what I eat.

Today was basically a no-carb day.

Tomorrow, I'll hit the gym for lifting so I'll have carbs for pre and post-workout in careful amounts and in complex carbs. But it's still on the lower end.,

Musli with oatmeal and protein powder in the morning of the workout day is doing wonders......

Yes, that is a very good workout breakfast. It's also yummy.

[h90]

I vary my carb intake.

Yesterday was a higher day (but moderate in general as a whole) - I don't count the carbs, I just know based on what I eat.

Today was basically a no-carb day.

Tomorrow, I'll hit the gym for lifting so I'll have carbs for pre and post-workout in careful amounts and in complex carbs. But it's still on the lower end.,

Musli with oatmeal and protein powder in the morning of the workout day is doing wonders......

Yes, that is a very good workout breakfast. It's also yummy.

in compare to the previous no carb, low fat diet the musli is working like steroids.....

I mix half whey and half casein protein, but don't know if the kind of protein has significants.

[robblok]

In general I am low carb, done some carb cycling seems to work too.

I am not against carbs, at least not against carbs like oats and musli, processed carbs that is a different story. Studies have shown that low carb is a bit more effective as other food programs in loosing weight and maintaining it. But the key still is eating less to loose weight just eating no carbs alone wont help you if you overeat.

[h90]

In general I am low carb, done some carb cycling seems to work too.

I am not against carbs, at least not against carbs like oats and musli, processed carbs that is a different story. Studies have shown that low carb is a bit more effective as other food programs in loosing weight and maintaining it. But the key still is eating less to loose weight just eating no carbs alone wont help you if you overeat.

If you don't eat carbs, and reduce fat, you can't overeat.....You just don't want another chicken breast, egg or pork......you may still hungry but don't want more protein.