Major evidence that low carb diets not needed for long term weight loss/maintenance success

[JSixpack]

Meet Freelee the Banana Girl

She's on 80/10/10

that's means 80 PER CENT CARBS/ 10 per cent ^proteins/ 10 per cent fat

She is super SKINNY

Living proof carbs are good for you and make you slim!

Try it yourself and report back in a few years. One gentic freak does not constitute proof.

Even more to the point, let's see how great she looks once she hits 40 or 50. Young kids can maintain lean physiques on any proportions of macronutrients.

Yep, we'll see what happens as the insulin resistance grows over time.

Good point about genetics.

Edited September 7, 2014 by JSixpack

[tropo]

Meet Freelee the Banana Girl

She's on 80/10/10

that's means 80 PER CENT CARBS/ 10 per cent ^proteins/ 10 per cent fat

She is super SKINNY

Living proof carbs are good for you and make you slim!

Try it yourself and report back in a few years. One gentic freak does not constitute proof.

Even more to the point, let's see how great she looks once she hits 40 or 50. Young kids can maintain lean physiques on any proportions of macronutrients.

Yep, we'll see what happens as the insulin resistance grows over time.

Good point about genetics.

I didn't discover my insulin resistance until I was 45. In my 20's I couldn't put on weight no matter what I ate. In the 30's it wasn't easy either. I couldn't easily put on weight until I was over 40. In my 20's and 30's I never considered percentages of macronutrients... I just ate LOL. (I did however consider the quality of the food I ate).

I wouldn't bother watching a video of some naive young girl suggesting what to eat to stay lean...

Edited September 7, 2014 by tropo

[h90]

Meet Freelee the Banana Girl

She's on 80/10/10

that's means 80 PER CENT CARBS/ 10 per cent ^proteins/ 10 per cent fat

She is super SKINNY

Living proof carbs are good for you and make you slim!

Well terrible voice........

1 person is no proof or disproof....There are heavy smoker who get 100 years old....they are no proof that you get 100 years old if you smoke a lot.....

[h90]

Meet Freelee the Banana Girl

She's on 80/10/10

that's means 80 PER CENT CARBS/ 10 per cent ^proteins/ 10 per cent fat

She is super SKINNY

Living proof carbs are good for you and make you slim!

Try it yourself and report back in a few years. One gentic freak does not constitute proof.

Even more to the point, let's see how great she looks once she hits 40 or 50. Young kids can maintain lean physiques on any proportions of macronutrients.

There are also older people who always eat crap and maintain a lean physique....they are just lucky on their genetics.....But that doesn't help me if I have a different one.

[Ragz]

Where’s the straw man? I know that’s your favorite fallacy so please do tell.

Here:

Taubes presents evidence of 6% decrease in fat as a percentage of calories intake . . .

Yep.

But they were not lower fat diets

Percentage-wise, they were--the point he was making with his evidence you admit he presented. But the Taubes that said people weren't or may not have been eating more fat as part of an increase in total calories doesn't exist except in your fevered imagination.

OK, you've been spoon fed (some protein) now, and my spoon feeding charge is normally B500/hr. Are you done wasting our time w/ this irrelevant distortion?

500baht per hour eh? Just goes to show you get what you pay for. Is this how much you charge Gary Taubes to put words into his mouth? He is a journalist and knows how to type and he clearly says lower fat diets. However people are now eating higher fat diets because they are eating more fat! He fails to point out that despite recommendations to eat less fat that started in the 70s, people actually ended up eating more fat. And as we know, during this time obesity and other health problems proliferated. Very relevant.

Now, I am not simple/close-minded enough to just focus doggedly on a single macro nutrient when looking at this data….of course carbohydrate consumption increased too during this time, mainly in the form of refined sugar, high fructose corn syrup, refined flour etc. and of course this played a part in the health issues that arose, when combined with the increase in fat intake.

[Ragz]

Meet Freelee the Banana Girl

She's on 80/10/10

that's means 80 PER CENT CARBS/ 10 per cent ^proteins/ 10 per cent fat

She is super SKINNY

Living proof carbs are good for you and make you slim!

Great vid. Freelee went from overweight to lean on a fruitarian diet. She has now transitioned to some cooked vegan foods.

But some have brought up the long term effects of a fruitarian vegan diet, so here is a video showing how these diets ravage the body after many years This guy has been a raw fruitarian for 30 years and a vegan longer. However he is now 68 and looks in rough shape, maybe he needs to eat some bacon.

[sustento]

If I eat 100g of cherries my 1 hour PP BG is around 9.5. Do you suggest I go on a 'fruitarian' diet?

[Ragz]

If I eat 100g of cherries my 1 hour PP BG is around 9.5. Do you suggest I go on a 'fruitarian' diet?

I’m not suggesting you do anything. You have found something that works for you, and I believe you when you say it works for you. You are dealing with a serious condition via lifestyle changes and kudos to you for doing it. But, I am pointing out that other people eating high carb diets, indeed diets of only fruit, are not experiencing health problems and are displaying normal blood tests. I have also pointed out that many people are claiming they control their type 2 diabetes with high carb plant-based diets, and many studies support this. I am not sure whether these people were able to start eating fruit immediately or after transitioning some time, I am sure it varies from person to person.

I think it is important to present options for people who are concerned that high dietary fat will cause heart disease. Again, some people question whether dietary fat intake is connected to heart disease, which is fine, but I think the evidence is pretty solid for this.

[Ragz]

Meet Freelee the Banana Girl

She's on 80/10/10

that's means 80 PER CENT CARBS/ 10 per cent ^proteins/ 10 per cent fat

She is super SKINNY

Living proof carbs are good for you and make you slim!

Here's another one. 70 years old and ravaged by 30 years of high fruit and fruit juice intake. Somebody get her some pork rinds immediately!

Edited September 8, 2014 by Ragz

[JSixpack]

he clearly says lower fat diets.

We have an echo in here. Many of our forum members such as yourself believe that repeating a misconception over and over makes it true. It doesn't but merely proves obtuseness. Again:

Percentage-wise, they were--the point he was making with his evidence you admit he presented.

He fails to point out that despite recommendations to eat less fat that started in the 70s, people actually ended up eating more fat. And as we know, during this time obesity and other health problems proliferated. Very relevant.

50s, w/ Ancel Keys. Duh. Taubes doesn't point that out because

• he's addressing the topic of percentages;
• it's completely obvious to any dolt;
• it's irrelevant to his point, as so much obesity is observed in populations eating fewer total calories but higher percentages of carbs;
• he's suggesting that the low-carb recommendation led to the eating more--most importantly, far more carbs.

So, to summarize:

He says that the whole 'low fat craze' has failed because everyone has gotten fatter.

No. And, as has been evident, your own quotation proved he never said that, thank you.

Nor, as has been evident, does he use any "tricks." Looks like the trickster here is actually yourself. A projection?

Now, we need a symbol to distinguish the real Taubes from the imaginary straw man anti-Taubes, the "trickster," the fraud who's been haunting your dreams. Something mathematical, since you're so precise about numbers, logical reasoning, understanding complex relationships, and having your facts straight and all? Maybe jTaubes? j being the symbol in EE for imaginary numbers.

Edited September 8, 2014 by JSixpack

[Ragz]

You charge 500 baht per hour for that drivel? I want my money back.

[JSixpack]

You charge 500 baht per hour for that drivel? I want my money back.

An expected response of typical grace from a troll whose assertions (not arguments, which require facts & rationality) have been refuted and shown up as nonsense. Nothing new there, pal.

And you got the special spoon feeding rate for the learning impaired. It's merely one of my many charitable contributions. Sorry, can't go lower for you.

We all know you're just trolling. Maybe the mods will come down on you--as they do.

When do we get to hear more about jTaubes?

Edited September 8, 2014 by JSixpack

[Ragz]

You charge 500 baht per hour for that drivel? I want my money back.

An expected response of typical grace from a troll whose assertions (not arguments, which require facts & rationality) have been refuted and shown up as nonsense. Nothing new there, pal.

And you got the special spoon feeding rate for the learning impaired. It's merely one of my many charitable contributions. Sorry, can't go lower for you.

We all know you're just trolling. Maybe the mods will come down on you--as they do.

When do we get to hear more about jTaubes?

I don’t’ care how strenuously you try and defend Taubes. When someone says:

“the incidence of heart disease does not seem to be declining, as 
would be expected if lower fat diets made 
a difference”

yet everyone is eating MORE TOTAL FAT, that is a sleight of hand.

A more clear way of putting it would have been:

“the incidence of heart disease does not seem to be declining, but this is to be expected because EVERYONE IS EATING MORE FAT”

I know you will probably try more acrobatics on this one, but really I am done going round and round. We didn’t even get a chance to touch on that bogus study you posted that sparked this whole debate but then again that one was effectively shot down by your hero Ms Minger.

Next!

[JSixpack]

But, I am pointing out that other people eating high carb diets, indeed diets of only fruit, are not experiencing health problems and are displaying normal blood tests.

But you've shockingly failed to mention that some are experiencing health problems and, alas, aren't displaying normal blood tests. Even the foremost advocate, durianrider, friend of Banana Girl, has high triglycerides, LDL, and no B12 (so taking B12 injections). A few examples:

So all in all, this healthiest lifestyle ever gave me the shining gifts of health: Low energy, pale skin, anxiety and a mouth that looked like battlefield ruins. But I could definitely brag about how my poop didn’t smell, or that my urine was crystal clear! Raw vegan ftw!

--http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/3484206816/interview-with-an-ex-vegan-erim-bilgin

I was a raw food vegan for almost a year which I loved and then switched to an all fruit diet because I wanted to lose an extra 10 pounds of unwanted fat. I was only on this diet maybe four months and did not shed 1 pound. I also run marathons and participate in triathlons so it couldn't have been from not exercising. They also, claim that their diet can help with people that have diabetes. Well, shortly after I strated the diet I was diagnosed with prediabetes. I continued the diet and monitored my sugar just to see what was happening within my body. My sugars were going sky high even with very low amounts of fruit. I decided to ditch the fruit diet and placed myself on a low carb diet instead in order to get my sugar levels under control. Amazingly my sugar levels dropped dramaticlly. I am still prediabetic levels but at least they are way lower. I will always have to stick to a low carb diet now.

--http://paleohacks.com/fruit/your-thoughts-on-the-30-bananas-a-day-site-1071

I was a vegetarian for years and I was overweight, developed diabetes and high blood pressure. I switched to a high fat carbohydrate restricted diet and lost the weight and the diabetes and the high blood pressure.

--http://www.marksdailyapple.com/vegan-island/

I think it is important to present options for people who are concerned that high dietary fat will cause heart disease.

This is a very important thinking for our forum members that you've arrived at. Yes, let's do a better job of reassuring those concerned--and presenting options. As a starting point: Ta da! Your hero:

What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?

Then a few articles presenting options:

How Steve Pavlina and Raw Veganism Almost Killed Me

My Escape from Vegan Island

Vegan Lies And Their Stick Figure People

http://www.womenshealthmag.com/weight-loss/80-10-10

http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/3484206816/interview-with-an-ex-vegan-erim-bilgin

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-can-some-people-eat-anything-they-want-and-never-gain-a-pound/

[JSixpack]

When someone says:

“the incidence of heart disease does not seem to be declining, as 
would be expected if lower fat diets made 
a difference”

yet everyone is eating MORE TOTAL FAT, that is a sleight of hand.

No, what is obviously the sleight of hand is to claim it says what it doesn't and insist it make some other point not under discussion and then attempt to refute his non-existent point on that basis. Laughable, really. I've enjoyed this.

Again (and again) the narrow point, that you consistently ignore, was that percentage-wise, calories formerly taken up by fat have been replaced by carbs but that fact alone hasn't led to expected results. The MORE TOTAL FAT is irrelevant to the point Taubes was making--which is, to your consternation, why he didn't make it!

And besides researchers have found numerous examples of obese populations with lower calorie diets with less total fat but more total carbs. No one advocates a high-carb high-fat diet that I know of, certainly not Taubes. His own low-carb diet (he doesn't have any diet book) is published on his site along with his bloodwork numbers (since so many skeptics asked for them).

Edited September 8, 2014 by JSixpack

[tropo]

LOL. Who's going to stop first? I'm glad I ended my debate with Ragz a few pages back.

[Kitsune]

These video are not spam

these people have NOTHING to sell

These are people like you and me who tried a diet that is based on carbs and lost weight

[sustento]

Of course they're spam. They're all trying to sell something even if it's only their own website or youtube channel. The first video even has an offer of 0% financing at the end!

[h90]

These video are not spam

these people have NOTHING to sell

These are people like you and me who tried a diet that is based on carbs and lost weight

I have no doubts that it works, actually I think just about everything works if you eat less than your body burns.

While I don't know these people, Roblok and I really lost a lot weight with low carbs.

High carbs, low carbs, high fat, low fat, high protein, low protein....I guess everything works if you don't eat too much.

[metisdead]

A video in a foreign language has been as well as another video of a commercial nature. Do we really need to flood the topic with videos as opposed to discussion?

[tropo]

If I eat 100g of cherries my 1 hour PP BG is around 9.5. Do you suggest I go on a 'fruitarian' diet?

Even 70 g of oats, supposedly totally safe complex carbs, eaten alone with no sugar and a dash of milk put me at 8.0... and I tell you, I would have preferred eating 100 g of cherries.

[Kitsune]

A video in a foreign language has been as well as another video of a commercial nature. Do we really need to flood the topic with videos as opposed to discussion?

Nothing is for sell

These people are sharing their experience

I not we am responding to robblock who ASKED for more example of people losing weight on vegan diet

Veganism is not copyrighted

The discussion is pointless if you don't show examples

Please note that I showed many examples totally relevant to the topic proving carbs are indeed making youlose weight

Edited September 8, 2014 by Kitsune

[tropo]

These video are not spam

these people have NOTHING to sell

These are people like you and me who tried a diet that is based on carbs and lost weight

They're all spam, promoting the 80/10/10 diet, which is a book for sale on Amazon. Other's are promoting programs based on it.

Have you got any evidence that 80/10/10 works better than, for example, 70/15/15 or 60/20/20 etc.

What is the optimum number?

Obviously touting numbers like this is quite ridiculous as working it out would be impossible or at the very least a nightmare for the ordinary person. People need to have a life, and sitting down to every meal with kitchen scales and a calculator just won't work.

The low carb diet is the easiest of all to follow. Just take a rough estimate of your carb intake and you're done... or just eliminate carb foods in general, which is rather easy.

Edited September 8, 2014 by tropo

[Kitsune]

These video are not spam

these people have NOTHING to sell

These are people like you and me who tried a diet that is based on carbs and lost weight

I have no doubts that it works, actually I think just about everything works if you eat less than your body burns.

While I don't know these people, Roblok and I really lost a lot weight with low carbs.

High carbs, low carbs, high fat, low fat, high protein, low protein....I guess everything works if you don't eat too much.

Lowcarbs means more fat and more proteins of the bad kind

on the long term basis it's not sustainable

I would show you a video proving it, but its going to be erased

[Kitsune]

These video are not spam

these people have NOTHING to sell

These are people like you and me who tried a diet that is based on carbs and lost weight

They're all spam, promoting the 80/10/10 diet, which is a book for sale on Amazon. Other's are promoting programs based on it.

Have you got any evidence that 80/10/10 works better than, for example, 70/15/15 or 60/20/20 etc.

What is the optimum number?

Obviously touting numbers like this is quite ridiculous as working it out would be impossible or at the very least a nightmare for the ordinary person. People need to have a life, and sitting down to every meal with kitchen scales and a calculator just won't work.

The low carb diet is the easiest of all to follow. Just take a rough estimate of your carb intake and you're done... or just eliminate carb foods in general, which is rather easy.

You don't need to buy the book

DUH

Just watch the vids and eat 80/10/10

Millions are doing it and reaching healthier life

Edited September 8, 2014 by Kitsune

[tropo]

These video are not spam

these people have NOTHING to sell

These are people like you and me who tried a diet that is based on carbs and lost weight

I have no doubts that it works, actually I think just about everything works if you eat less than your body burns.

While I don't know these people, Roblok and I really lost a lot weight with low carbs.

High carbs, low carbs, high fat, low fat, high protein, low protein....I guess everything works if you don't eat too much.

Lowcarbs means more fat and more proteins of the bad kind

on the long term basis it's not sustainable

I would show you a video proving it, but its going to be erased

Why does it mean more fat and proteins of the bad kind? That's up to the person to decide if they want to consume good or bad proteins and fats, just as it is the choice of the people on your 80/10/10 diet to decide if they want to consume good or bad carbs, proteins or fats.

Edited September 8, 2014 by tropo

[sustento]

A video in a foreign language has been as well as another video of a commercial nature. Do we really need to flood the topic with videos as opposed to discussion?

Nothing is for sell

At the end of the first video was an advert for 'Dr Graham's Health and Fitness Retreats'. 0% financing was offered. A number of the other videos were advertising Dr Graham's retreats and website too.

They were spam - pure and simple.

[sustento]

What is 'protein of the bad kind'?

[tropo]

These video are not spam

these people have NOTHING to sell

These are people like you and me who tried a diet that is based on carbs and lost weight

They're all spam, promoting the 80/10/10 diet, which is a book for sale on Amazon. Other's are promoting programs based on it.

Have you got any evidence that 80/10/10 works better than, for example, 70/15/15 or 60/20/20 etc.

What is the optimum number?

Obviously touting numbers like this is quite ridiculous as working it out would be impossible or at the very least a nightmare for the ordinary person. People need to have a life, and sitting down to every meal with kitchen scales and a calculator just won't work.

The low carb diet is the easiest of all to follow. Just take a rough estimate of your carb intake and you're done... or just eliminate carb foods in general, which is rather easy.

You don't need to buy the book

DUH

Just watch the vids and eat 80/10/10

Millions are doing it and reaching healthier life

Trust me, I won't be... and also won't be watching the videos.

Millions are doing it? That's nonsense and you know it.

[Kitsune]

So people are asking for examples

But if I give examples they are deleted

So obviously Icannot win