No matter who 'wins', without reconciliation, Thailand will lose

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
No matter who 'wins', without reconciliation, Thailand will lose
The Nation

We need an antidote to the hatred that's running deeper and deeper on both sides of the political divide

BANGKOK: -- Anti-government protesters kicked off their ambitious campaign to shut down Bangkok on Monday, stepping up pressure on the Yingluck administration. Huge crowds turned up for the rallies, but the government appears to be standing firm. What happens next is anyone's guess. The only certainty after the protesters' bold move is that political tension has heightened.

Even before the People's Democratic Reform Committee moved the main protest site to the Pathumwan intersection in central Bangkok, the situation looked ominous for the government. The Pheu Thai Party is operating on hostile ground in the capital, which it will find difficult to govern if it retains power. Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra has been forced to work from various bureaucratic offices rather than Government House.

While it is true that only a minority of voters live in Bangkok, their hostility towards the government is worsening and unlikely to improve no matter how the crisis ends. An administration that loses the ability to run the capital will struggle to cling to power.

Meanwhile the opposition has boycotted the February 2 election and the Election Commission itself says the poll is likely to fail since it will not produce enough MPs for Parliament to convene. Even if the poll does take place, the next Parliament would likely face legitimacy problems.

With the situation darkening, the commission suggested the election be postponed. The government is now looking into the legality of such a move. The poll had been the only - if not the best - solution for the government, but the situation is no longer so simple.

Both sides have reached a point from which they are unable to step back. The stakes could hardly be higher. Yingluck and her government must face the National Anti-Corruption Commission on questions over its rule, including the costly and controversial water-management and rice-pledging schemes.

Likewise, despite early proclamations of "victory", the other side cannot afford to back down. The leaders of the People's Democratic Reform Committee and the Students' and People's Network for Thailand's Reform are also facing court action. Suthep Thuagsuban has been charged with sedition and other crimes. He has said he will accept a jail term if he loses this political battle. Likewise, his opponent, Yingluck, has declared she will remain in power to protect a democracy that represents all voters.

At this juncture, no one knows how long the crisis might last or how it will end. The certainty is that the prolonged battle has further divided Thais, with hatred running deeper on both sides. Even if the end comes soon, reconciliation will doubtless be much further down the road. The "winners" will likely be left sleepless at night while the "losers" will go back to plotting revenge. Rules will be rewritten, erased and written all over again. The vicious cycle of Thailand's political history will keep churning.

No matter how this latest episode ends, we can only make progress by accepting two things. First, this will take a very long time to heal. Second, everyone must be sincere about reconciliation. Without sincerity, the road to reconciliation will remain closed.


-- The Nation 2014-01-15

[cdmtdm]

i think u missed the major point which should be number 1

CORRUPTION MUST STOP

in all sectors , govt at all levels , military , police , education ...this is what will take generations to change, in the meantime anarchy will rule the day...

[VegasVic]

i think u missed the major point which should be number 1

CORRUPTION MUST STOP

in all sectors , govt at all levels , military , police , education ...this is what will take generations to change, in the meantime anarchy will rule the day...

Well at least you realize that the crackdown on corruption will be a generational thing in Thailand, sutheps wide eyed sheep think that they can do it by proclamation Remember that even as Plato penned "the Republic" he himself realized that it would never come to pass, because he knew the true nature of man (thanks to a very inciteful teacher of his)

[Raspberry]

And to think that all this started with the Shinawatra posted one too many happy photo on Facebook, which made AV mad.

And then I heard that the Shinawatra accused one of the royals that their brand name bag was from TJ Maxx.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Raspberry

[Hawk]

i think u missed the major point which should be number 1

CORRUPTION MUST STOP

in all sectors , govt at all levels , military , police , education ...this is what will take generations to change, in the meantime anarchy will rule the day...

Corruption will never ever be eradicated because greed is a basic part of human nature. The wheel turns, the poor pay.

[Halion]

Corruption is a human condition and as such it will be almost impossible to eradicate especially in this country where it has gained acceptance as a cultural norm. The best we can expect is that it may be reduced and programs put in place to flush it out of the cultural acceptance over the years ahead.

Reconciliation is also also a lame duck at this point in time as it requires integrity, sincerity and compromise which are all qualities that are sadly remiss in this society.

Reform is a key element however ,the means and mechanisms to achieve this are unlikely in this polarized society.

History should have shown the Thai people that change which would be an integral part of good governance is not a feasible option in this culture and can only come from the bottom up. It can only come if the ordinary people raise the bar as to their expectancy from those who purport to serve them.

[donmuang37]

If one was to pick a person to lead the drive against corruption, it would hardly be Suthep, the master of corruption! Yes, corruption is a part of human nature, but it can be reduced to quite low levels. Even in Asian countries - Singapore, Hong Kong and Japan come to mind.

Thailand has followed China's road to extreme corruption and 63% percent of Thais say corruption is OK if it benefits them personally.

So this struggle isn't about doing away with corruption; it's about gaining power to benefit from existing corruption. Since the Democrats haven't won an election since 1992, they have decided to do away with democracy and one man one vote until they can rewrite the rules to ensure they win. In other words, it's just a power struggle between the old elite and the new elite.

[crazydrummerpauly]

Some of the comments on here about 'Corruption' being endemic, part of something called 'human nature', are just inane. While there might be SOME corruption everywhere, everything important is to be found in the details of who is involved, at what level/s, and exactly how much it impinges on everyday life. To try to lump all the countries in the world under the cliche that it is 'human nature' is plain dumb. Just one example (i'm too busy to list more) - in Thailand, a school-teacher who wants to move schools, might well be expected to slip a very large wad of cash to the civil-servant/education administrator who will process the application paperwork - anyone EVER heard of that happening in for example, the UK ? No. Now repeat that exercise for as many situations as you want - the DIFFERENCES between countries really matter !!!

[Baerboxer]

Some of the comments on here about 'Corruption' being endemic, part of something called 'human nature', are just inane. While there might be SOME corruption everywhere, everything important is to be found in the details of who is involved, at what level/s, and exactly how much it impinges on everyday life. To try to lump all the countries in the world under the cliche that it is 'human nature' is plain dumb. Just one example (i'm too busy to list more) - in Thailand, a school-teacher who wants to move schools, might well be expected to slip a very large wad of cash to the civil-servant/education administrator who will process the application paperwork - anyone EVER heard of that happening in for example, the UK ? No. Now repeat that exercise for as many situations as you want - the DIFFERENCES between countries really matter !!!

Correct. The different country cultures will influence they way their people behave, their world views, there opinions, morals, ethics, and societal views.

Effectively taking basic human belief systems and contextualizing them to that countries evolved belief system.

So, a massive change in culture through education, role model behavior, justice and fair opportunities for all might be a good start.

Will it happen - not seen anything to suggest its even on the radar. Too many vested interests on both sides for keeping control.

[Mystory]

Some of the comments on here about 'Corruption' being endemic, part of something called 'human nature', are just inane. While there might be SOME corruption everywhere, everything important is to be found in the details of who is involved, at what level/s, and exactly how much it impinges on everyday life. To try to lump all the countries in the world under the cliche that it is 'human nature' is plain dumb. Just one example (i'm too busy to list more) - in Thailand, a school-teacher who wants to move schools, might well be expected to slip a very large wad of cash to the civil-servant/education administrator who will process the application paperwork - anyone EVER heard of that happening in for example, the UK ? No. Now repeat that exercise for as many situations as you want - the DIFFERENCES between countries really matter !!!

No in the UK, they are smarter, they get a free paid for holiday, no receipts, no access cash left around, just get on a plane and go.

Corruption is everywhere, as someone else posted, it is the morals of society whether they accept it or not when they find out. Thailand seem to except it. As in the UK, they would make the person quit from government.

TIT, when I moved here I accepted it. When in Thailand do as the Thai's do. Respect the culture.

[tingtongteesood]

If one was to pick a person to lead the drive against corruption, it would hardly be Suthep, the master of corruption! Yes, corruption is a part of human nature, but it can be reduced to quite low levels. Even in Asian countries - Singapore, Hong Kong and Japan come to mind.

Thailand has followed China's road to extreme corruption and 63% percent of Thais say corruption is OK if it benefits them personally.

So this struggle isn't about doing away with corruption; it's about gaining power to benefit from existing corruption. Since the Democrats haven't won an election since 1992, they have decided to do away with democracy and one man one vote until they can rewrite the rules to ensure they win. In other words, it's just a power struggle between the old elite and the new elite.

Suthep, the master of corruption!

There is one time that Suteb was involved in something that seems to have been corrupt. Compared to Taksin who has at least 20 to his name and has been convicted for one of them with many cases pending he is too cowardly to come and face.

In the field of corruption Taksin makes Suteb look like a complete amateur !!

[EricBerg]

Some of the comments on here about 'Corruption' being endemic, part of something called 'human nature', are just inane. While there might be SOME corruption everywhere, everything important is to be found in the details of who is involved, at what level/s, and exactly how much it impinges on everyday life. To try to lump all the countries in the world under the cliche that it is 'human nature' is plain dumb. Just one example (i'm too busy to list more) - in Thailand, a school-teacher who wants to move schools, might well be expected to slip a very large wad of cash to the civil-servant/education administrator who will process the application paperwork - anyone EVER heard of that happening in for example, the UK ? No. Now repeat that exercise for as many situations as you want - the DIFFERENCES between countries really matter !!!

Correct. The different country cultures will influence they way their people behave, their world views, there opinions, morals, ethics, and societal views.

Effectively taking basic human belief systems and contextualizing them to that countries evolved belief system.

So, a massive change in culture through education, role model behavior, justice and fair opportunities for all might be a good start.

Will it happen - not seen anything to suggest its even on the radar. Too many vested interests on both sides for keeping control.

Eventually it will happen. Simply because there is no alternative. Things may take time, but the younger generations will take over and bring change. None of the analists saw the Arabian spring coming. There change has started a bit too.

[poisonus]

Some of the comments on here about 'Corruption' being endemic, part of something called 'human nature', are just inane. While there might be SOME corruption everywhere, everything important is to be found in the details of who is involved, at what level/s, and exactly how much it impinges on everyday life. To try to lump all the countries in the world under the cliche that it is 'human nature' is plain dumb. Just one example (i'm too busy to list more) - in Thailand, a school-teacher who wants to move schools, might well be expected to slip a very large wad of cash to the civil-servant/education administrator who will process the application paperwork - anyone EVER heard of that happening in for example, the UK ? No. Now repeat that exercise for as many situations as you want - the DIFFERENCES between countries really matter !!!

No in the UK, they are smarter, they get a free paid for holiday, no receipts, no access cash left around, just get on a plane and go.

Corruption is everywhere, as someone else posted, it is the morals of society whether they accept it or not when they find out. Thailand seem to except it. As in the UK, they would make the person quit from government.

TIT, when I moved here I accepted it. When in Thailand do as the Thai's do. Respect the culture.

You just undermined your own argument.

It is not about how widely accepted corruption is, it is about the system that allows it, and when you have reforms that puts in place a system that does not allow it to happen from the top down, then it becomes very hard to get away with it. If you get caught and you face real tough jail sentences of say at least 10 years without pardon, and you can NOT buy your way out, along with all assets seized. Then that will make corruption a much less desirable option all round. So even though the temptation is there, the risk outweighs the notion to see it through.

When you hit the top hardest (Politicians) they will make sure that those below them can't be corrupt either, and we all know how shit rolls downhill. When you are no longer easily able to be corrupt, then those who are only in politics for the massive graft etc.. will soon lose interest and go and do something else instead...That my friends is human nature.

Having said all this though. There is no way you will stamp out all corruption and a lot of it is harmless and p[art of everyday life. It is the huge scale corruption that causes huge damage to the economy and every project it puts in jeopardy which pisses everyone off, and that CAN be eradicated or at least hindered to a point it will be too dangerous and carry too much risk for the individuals involved to even consider it.

[laocowboy2]

And corruption is not the exclusive property of one political party. The Democrats are not exactly squeaky clean themselves - including Big S.

This whole thing is about whose turn it is at the trough - what's the old saying 'when thieves fall out'?

i think u missed the major point which should be number 1

CORRUPTION MUST STOP

in all sectors , govt at all levels , military , police , education ...this is what will take generations to change, in the meantime anarchy will rule the day...

[shiok]

If one was to pick a person to lead the drive against corruption, it would hardly be Suthep, the master of corruption! Yes, corruption is a part of human nature, but it can be reduced to quite low levels. Even in Asian countries - Singapore, Hong Kong and Japan come to mind.

Thailand has followed China's road to extreme corruption and 63% percent of Thais say corruption is OK if it benefits them personally.

So this struggle isn't about doing away with corruption; it's about gaining power to benefit from existing corruption. Since the Democrats haven't won an election since 1992, they have decided to do away with democracy and one man one vote until they can rewrite the rules to ensure they win. In other words, it's just a power struggle between the old elite and the new elite.

Suthep, the master of corruption!

There is one time that Suteb was involved in something that seems to have been corrupt. Compared to Taksin who has at least 20 to his name and has been convicted for one of them with many cases pending he is too cowardly to come and face.

In the field of corruption Taksin makes Suteb look like a complete amateur !!

Well said! Taksin takes the cake!??

[DMG333]

i think u missed the major point which should be number 1

CORRUPTION MUST STOP

in all sectors , govt at all levels , military , police , education ...this is what will take generations to change, in the meantime anarchy will rule the day...

To abate corruption, most basically Thailand needs to refine a few things, for example;

1. Increase the remuneration for government servants, example: politicians, teachers, police etc. then doctrine special laws for them if they commit a crime, they must governed by 3 or 4 times heavier amercement. And vice versa if they were harm.

2. Alter the legal systems and constitution to suit modern times.

3. Not afraid to "kill a chicken to warn a monkey" (Chinese sayings), punish whoever in accordance to the law and not base on their 'last name' or social status.

4. Update the educational system.

Just my two cents input.

Edited January 15, 2014 by DMG333

[Basil B]

Corruption is a big eval that unfortunately will never be eradicated, but can be reduced to a level that those who participate in it can and will be severely punished when caught, unfortunately Thailand is a long way from this goal, I am not sure even if a majority of the population actually want this even though most are poorer because of corruption within the Kingdom.

As for what will happen next, nobody knows, one thing for sure "Ding Dong" politics of us and them will not work with each side trying to see the the leaders of the other side stitched up and sent to prison.

There is nothing to unify this country, may be a coup d'état is the only answer.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Basil B

[Prbkk]

i think u missed the major point which should be number 1

CORRUPTION MUST STOP

in all sectors , govt at all levels , military , police , education ...this is what will take generations to change, in the meantime anarchy will rule the day...

To abate corruption, most basically Thailand needs to refine a few things, for example;

1. Increase the remuneration for government servants, example: politicians, teachers, police etc. then doctrine special laws for them if they commit a crime, they must governed by 3 or 4 times heavier amercement. And vice versa if they were harm.

2. Alter the legal systems and constitution to suit modern times.

3. Not afraid to "kill a chicken to warn a monkey" (Chinese sayings), punish whoever in accordance to the law and not base on their 'last name' or social status.

4. Update the educational system.

Just my two cents input.

Some of these points have worked well in Singapore, Korea, Malaysia, Taiwan , Hong Kong . Thailand is going backwards from a low base. This 'good people" reform committee would be just more of the same old cronies

[h90]

i think u missed the major point which should be number 1

CORRUPTION MUST STOP

in all sectors , govt at all levels , military , police , education ...this is what will take generations to change, in the meantime anarchy will rule the day...

Would be relative easy.....cancel all nonsense laws (so the courts aren't congested with nonsense), make some minor improvements to the existing anti corruption laws, mainly to speed up things.

And the courts can weed out corruption. It won't take generations, maybe 20 years with the first feel able results in 5 years.

And well, you need to change some other laws....you can't put some minor amount drug users in jail anymore as you need the place for the corrupt....you need to make some place....big pardon also....

[focus27]

The article does not make it clear as to what exactly the two parties are reconciling - their "differences" is too vague.

The trough is only big enough for so many pigs, and I don't see any swinish group-hugs taking place.

To expect the political class to reform itself is laughable, I think. It needs an outside agency. This could be something like ASEAN imposing strict rules on government tenders, or the workers flexing their muscles through unions. But that takes time.

In most developed democracies, governments tend to slowly hang themselves. Opposition parties then move into save the day, only to repeat the process. Hence a party being out of power for 20 years is not unusual. Here in Thailand nobody wants to wait. Given that some of the current government's policies are unravelling, it wouldn't take much intelligence or political cunning for an opposition to win a future election. Oops, sorry, was in a daydream!

[focus27]

On the subject of corruption, a vignette from my time out in the sticks. Came across a cohort of Thai policemen who claimed they had been trained in Australia and whose job was to slowly remove corruption within the police force. They were paid more than the standard wage and with it went the extra responsibility to be... erm, responsible. This was 3 or 4 years ago, so plans do exist - I don't know how far they have developed. Merely increasing wages without changing the culture won't work, but this carrot and stick approach might. It's a long road.