Thai Rice sale to China delayed by legal limbo over 'caretaker' powers

[Prbkk]

Does someone actually feel sorry for these farmers? Aren't they the ones who tried to line their own pockets by voting for crooks?

Yes, everyone feels sorry for them. It would be nice if the govt were permitted to actually get on with shifting the rice, getting the income, paying the farmers. But no, we have a clutch of pedantic , bureaucratic obstructionists determined to block what is so clearly in the best interests of everyone.

[Ricardo]

Does someone actually feel sorry for these farmers? Aren't they the ones who tried to line their own pockets by voting for crooks?

Yes, everyone feels sorry for them. It would be nice if the govt were permitted to actually get on with shifting the rice, getting the income, paying the farmers. But no, we have a clutch of pedantic , bureaucratic obstructionists determined to block what is so clearly in the best interests of everyone.

So what's the excuse, for the government's failure to sell the growing stocks of rice, or pay the poor rice-farmers when due, four or five months ago before the election was called ?

[Prbkk]

Does someone actually feel sorry for these farmers? Aren't they the ones who tried to line their own pockets by voting for crooks?

Yes, everyone feels sorry for them. It would be nice if the govt were permitted to actually get on with shifting the rice, getting the income, paying the farmers. But no, we have a clutch of pedantic , bureaucratic obstructionists determined to block what is so clearly in the best interests of everyone.

So what's the excuse, for the government's failure to sell the growing stocks of rice, or pay the poor rice-farmers when due, four or five months ago before the election was called ?

No excuse, it was a very bad policy. But they should be allowed to get on with getting the best deal they can and pay the farmers. Yes, that will be at a loss to the govt...a failed policy in a very bad market for rice. But they shouldn't be cornered by bureaucrats., IMHO

Edited January 19, 2014 by Prbkk

[JesseFrank]

Does someone actually feel sorry for these farmers? Aren't they the ones who tried to line their own pockets by voting for crooks?

Yes, everyone feels sorry for them. It would be nice if the govt were permitted to actually get on with shifting the rice, getting the income, paying the farmers. But no, we have a clutch of pedantic , bureaucratic obstructionists determined to block what is so clearly in the best interests of everyone.

So what's the excuse, for the government's failure to sell the growing stocks of rice, or pay the poor rice-farmers when due, four or five months ago before the election was called ?

No excuse, it was a very bad policy. But they should be allowed to get on with getting the best deal they can and pay the farmers. Yes, that will be at a loss to the govt...a failed policy in a very bad market for rice. But they shouldn't be cornered by bureaucrats., IMHO

Get on with what ?

Announcing fake G2G sales ?

[SICHONSTEVE]

Does someone actually feel sorry for these farmers? Aren't they the ones who tried to line their own pockets by voting for crooks?

Yes, everyone feels sorry for them. It would be nice if the govt were permitted to actually get on with shifting the rice, getting the income, paying the farmers. But no, we have a clutch of pedantic , bureaucratic obstructionists determined to block what is so clearly in the best interests of everyone.

You don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that these rules are there for a reason and the EC have no choice but to follow them.

I realise that the PTP dominated government don't like any restrictions put in their way as all it does is blocks the corruption that they are drunk on!!

This is the main reason that they have lost their legitimacy ie: their unwillingness to pay heed to a democratically approved constitution and illegal attempt at removing checks and balances as all it does is slows down their ability to get to the money that is earmarked to be pilfered!!!

[otherstuff1957]

The government has really painted themselves into a corner. If they release the stocks of rice domestically, the local rice prices will plummet, hurting the farmers further (even the ones not involved in the scheme). If they release the stocks on the international market, the other rice exporting nations will accuse them of ruining the market for everyone else and will sue (probably successfully) the Thai government. They cannot afford to continue paying the farmers, but stopping the payments would be political suicide. The only way to boost rice prices, so that farmers can make a decent profit on their own, is to remove their "rice mountain" from the market permanently and accept the 500 billion odd loss.

If they had deliberately decided to ruin the Thai rice industry and drive many farmers to bankruptcy they couldn't have done a better job.

[Stradavarius37]

Farmers get no money for rice and yet still keep taking money to vote for Thaksin. Sad really...

[Prbkk]

Does someone actually feel sorry for these farmers? Aren't they the ones who tried to line their own pockets by voting for crooks?

Yes, everyone feels sorry for them. It would be nice if the govt were permitted to actually get on with shifting the rice, getting the income, paying the farmers. But no, we have a clutch of pedantic , bureaucratic obstructionists determined to block what is so clearly in the best interests of everyone.

You don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that these rules are there for a reason and the EC have no choice but to follow them.

I realise that the PTP dominated government don't like any restrictions put in their way as all it does is blocks the corruption that they are drunk on!!

This is the main reason that they have lost their legitimacy ie: their unwillingness to pay heed to a democratically approved constitution and illegal attempt at removing checks and balances as all it does is slows down their ability to get to the money that is earmarked to be pilfered!!!

Nonsense. There is sufficient flexibility for them to be able to permit this in the interests of the farmers. Why don't they just agree, issue a statement slamming the govt and let things move on. This is bureaucratic double-speak, not law. I don't care if they attack the govt, just facilitate payment to those farmers who have earned it

[SICHONSTEVE]

Does someone actually feel sorry for these farmers? Aren't they the ones who tried to line their own pockets by voting for crooks?

Yes, everyone feels sorry for them. It would be nice if the govt were permitted to actually get on with shifting the rice, getting the income, paying the farmers. But no, we have a clutch of pedantic , bureaucratic obstructionists determined to block what is so clearly in the best interests of everyone.

You don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that these rules are there for a reason and the EC have no choice but to follow them.

I realise that the PTP dominated government don't like any restrictions put in their way as all it does is blocks the corruption that they are drunk on!!

This is the main reason that they have lost their legitimacy ie: their unwillingness to pay heed to a democratically approved constitution and illegal attempt at removing checks and balances as all it does is slows down their ability to get to the money that is earmarked to be pilfered!!!

Nonsense. There is sufficient flexibility for them to be able to permit this in the interests of the farmers. Why don't they just agree, issue a statement slamming the govt and let things move on. This is bureaucratic double-speak, not law. I don't care if they attack the govt, just facilitate payment to those farmers who have earned it

They are not stopping the government from paying them - in fact the government is paying those in their strongholds with the tiny bit of money they have left.

The last part of the previous sentence holds the clue. The reason that they haven't paid them (for 6 months now) is because this scam is there to garner votes and they are paying the price now for their foolish mistake in implementing it!!

They have run out of money and they can't sell the rice because it is old, substandard and over-priced, plus the fact that the so called buyers are non-existent.

It is not acceptable practice for governments to lie to the people and its about time that they started learning this as it always comes back to haunt you eventually, doesn't it!!

Don't you think that they want to pay the farmers? It's a shame most of the money has been stolen.

Feel sorry for them? Nope!!! certainly not, they can stew in the predicament of their own making and should think a little bit more sensibly next time as to where they entrust their vote.

[JesseFrank]

Does someone actually feel sorry for these farmers? Aren't they the ones who tried to line their own pockets by voting for crooks?

Yes, everyone feels sorry for them. It would be nice if the govt were permitted to actually get on with shifting the rice, getting the income, paying the farmers. But no, we have a clutch of pedantic , bureaucratic obstructionists determined to block what is so clearly in the best interests of everyone.

You don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that these rules are there for a reason and the EC have no choice but to follow them.

I realise that the PTP dominated government don't like any restrictions put in their way as all it does is blocks the corruption that they are drunk on!!

This is the main reason that they have lost their legitimacy ie: their unwillingness to pay heed to a democratically approved constitution and illegal attempt at removing checks and balances as all it does is slows down their ability to get to the money that is earmarked to be pilfered!!!

Nonsense. There is sufficient flexibility for them to be able to permit this in the interests of the farmers. Why don't they just agree, issue a statement slamming the govt and let things move on. This is bureaucratic double-speak, not law. I don't care if they attack the govt, just facilitate payment to those farmers who have earned it

The reason the EC has to stop them is that the Rice scam scheme was supposed to be self-sufficient.

So far the only thing they have done is borrowed money to pay the farmers, loans that haven't been paid back yet, and still they want to borrow more. Self sufficiency has a completely different meaning.

I know you will come back and say that they still can sell the stocked rice in the future, but you have to keep in mind that in the same future there will be new harvests, which will make the world market price for rice only dump further.

[Prbkk]

yes, agree. Consistent with my post. the policy has to change but the rate for the rice alraedy harvested and stored must be honoured...yes, at a loss, agree. I don't agree with Steve that the farmers should go without.

[billd766]

Does someone actually feel sorry for these farmers? Aren't they the ones who tried to line their own pockets by voting for crooks?

Yes, everyone feels sorry for them. It would be nice if the govt were permitted to actually get on with shifting the rice, getting the income, paying the farmers. But no, we have a clutch of pedantic , bureaucratic obstructionists determined to block what is so clearly in the best interests of everyone.

So what's the excuse, for the government's failure to sell the growing stocks of rice, or pay the poor rice-farmers when due, four or five months ago before the election was called ?

No excuse, it was a very bad policy. But they should be allowed to get on with getting the best deal they can and pay the farmers. Yes, that will be at a loss to the govt...a failed policy in a very bad market for rice. But they shouldn't be cornered by bureaucrats., IMHO

Why will that be a loss for the government? It wasn't their money to begin with, it still isn't their money now.

It belongs to ALL of the people of Thailand NOT to the government.

Surely you can remember the public? You know the people who the government are supposed to serve and certainly NOT the government themselves.

They screwed it up and they MUST accept the responsibility of fixing it. If they can't or too much money has been stolen Then resign en masse and throw yourselves on the mercy of the justice system.

[JesseFrank]

yes, agree. Consistent with my post. the policy has to change but the rate for the rice alraedy harvested and stored must be honoured...yes, at a loss, agree. I don't agree with Steve that the farmers should go without.

Yes the farmers have to be paid, but not at the expense of other Thai people. If the EC agrees now to borrow more money ,then PTP is cleared of all blame for now, and will be reelected only to pull another scam next tenure.

This has to be stopped, and this can only be done by holding the Shinawatra's responsible for their lies.

When I step with 2 feet into an obvious scam,only because my greed overtook my common sense, then there is also nobody who will reimburse me if it fails..

[Robby nz]

Nonsense. There is sufficient flexibility for them to be able to permit this in the interests of the farmers. Why don't they just agree, issue a statement slamming the govt and let things move on. This is bureaucratic double-speak, not law. I don't care if they attack the govt, just facilitate payment to those farmers who have earned it

Seems we have an expert in Thai constitution law here, you will be very useful to the country I am sure.

The EC are the real experts on the laws they have to work with and PT would do well to heed what they say instead of issuing threats against them.

The farmers are the victims in this.

They are not the dumb peasants some would make them out as.

They are businessmen who know the business of growing rice.

They were offered a higher price for their product by a new buyer and accepted that promise at face value (they trusted PT) as most businesses would trust a reputable company.

The vote was only a pledge of loyalty (contract if you like) with the new buyer, as in " Ok we agree to sell to you and not the previous buyer"

The strings attached (higher rent, higher prices for supplies) did not appear till after the contract had been signed and amounted to a breach of contract by the buyer, PT Govt.

The final breach of contract is now the non payment.

The minister of white lies says the country has plenty of liquidity plus US$175 billion in overseas reserves.

If that is true why don't they pay the farmers out of that liquidity or reserves even instead of trying to use the BACC liquidity ?

incidentally, sure I read somewhere that when PT took over the country had over US$200 billion in overseas reserves.

If this is true, and someone might like to confirm or deny, then where did the other 25 billion go ?

[whybother]

yes, agree. Consistent with my post. the policy has to change but the rate for the rice alraedy harvested and stored must be honoured...yes, at a loss, agree. I don't agree with Steve that the farmers should go without.

I'm just wondering why the government didn't budget for this before they called an election.

[Old Man River]

This apparently explains why the government is looking to borrow around USD 130 million.

http://oryza.com/news/rice-news/thailand-rice-farmers-turn-open-market-due-delay-government-payments-prices-drop

[ginjag]

Does someone actually feel sorry for these farmers? Aren't they the ones who tried to line their own pockets by voting for crooks?

Yes, everyone feels sorry for them. It would be nice if the govt were permitted to actually get on with shifting the rice, getting the income, paying the farmers. But no, we have a clutch of pedantic , bureaucratic obstructionists determined to block what is so clearly in the best interests of everyone.

If they were so good at their jobs in hand why didn't they pay them over 4 months ago. ??? why are you blaming other bodies when it was the PM who failed to follow through a simple payment/s

[bigbamboo]

yes, agree. Consistent with my post. the policy has to change but the rate for the rice alraedy harvested and stored must be honoured...yes, at a loss, agree. I don't agree with Steve that the farmers should go without.

I'm just wondering why the government didn't budget for this before they called an election.

Maybe Kittikat didn't want to give his boss the bad news that the pot was empty?

[SICHONSTEVE]

yes, agree. Consistent with my post. the policy has to change but the rate for the rice alraedy harvested and stored must be honoured...yes, at a loss, agree. I don't agree with Steve that the farmers should go without.

I'm just wondering why the government didn't budget for this before they called an election.

They didn't because they are incompetent, don't understand or abide by parliamentary law, are full of corruption, answer to the dope who invented this stupid scam and lie non stop to cover their mistakes.

They have run out of money and don't have anyone else left to borrow it from because they unsurprisingly view it as a bad loan to make.

Would you loan money to this government - there's the answer!!!

Mention the word budget to them and they automatically think that is where 'OUR' money comes from. Someone should tell them that it is supposed to be for the benefit of the nation AS A WHOLE and is not their money!!

[Prbkk]

yes, agree. Consistent with my post. the policy has to change but the rate for the rice alraedy harvested and stored must be honoured...yes, at a loss, agree. I don't agree with Steve that the farmers should go without.

I'm just wondering why the government didn't budget for this before they called an election.

Maybe Kittikat didn't want to give his boss the bad news that the pot was empty?

There was an issue to do with whether a cabinet minute was required to fund...and if that could be done in caretaker mode.

[Prbkk]

yes, agree. Consistent with my post. the policy has to change but the rate for the rice alraedy harvested and stored must be honoured...yes, at a loss, agree. I don't agree with Steve that the farmers should go without.

I'm just wondering why the government didn't budget for this before they called an election.

They didn't because they are incompetent, don't understand or abide by parliamentary law, are full of corruption, answer to the dope who invented this stupid scam and lie non stop to cover their mistakes.

They have run out of money and don't have anyone else left to borrow it from because they unsurprisingly view it as a bad loan to make.

Would you loan money to this government - there's the answer!!!

Mention the word budget to them and they automatically think that is where 'OUR' money comes from. Someone should tell them that it is supposed to be for the benefit of the nation AS A WHOLE and is not their money!!

if you think they are bad, you have a short memory...because the mob before them was a disaster from an economic/finance/corruption perpective. That is not even in question

Edited January 19, 2014 by Prbkk

[ginjag]

yes, agree. Consistent with my post. the policy has to change but the rate for the rice alraedy harvested and stored must be honoured...yes, at a loss, agree. I don't agree with Steve that the farmers should go without.

I'm just wondering why the government didn't budget for this before they called an election.

Maybe Kittikat didn't want to give his boss the bad news that the pot was empty?

There was an issue to do with whether a cabinet minute was required to fund...and if that could be done in caretaker mode.

Notice you didn't answer my #77 all I said was why wasn't it paid 4/5 months ago--easy ??? that was then and now Too late, No provision made-poor governance ..

[Prbkk]

Notice you didn't answer my #77 all I said was why wasn't it paid 4/5 months ago--easy ??? that was then and now Too late, No provision made-poor governance ..

agree..but i think there was some measure of 'optimism' that the rice would be sold. but i agree that it has been very poorly managed

[SICHONSTEVE]

yes, agree. Consistent with my post. the policy has to change but the rate for the rice alraedy harvested and stored must be honoured...yes, at a loss, agree. I don't agree with Steve that the farmers should go without.

I'm just wondering why the government didn't budget for this before they called an election.

They didn't because they are incompetent, don't understand or abide by parliamentary law, are full of corruption, answer to the dope who invented this stupid scam and lie non stop to cover their mistakes.

They have run out of money and don't have anyone else left to borrow it from because they unsurprisingly view it as a bad loan to make.

Would you loan money to this government - there's the answer!!!

Mention the word budget to them and they automatically think that is where 'OUR' money comes from. Someone should tell them that it is supposed to be for the benefit of the nation AS A WHOLE and is not their money!!

if you think they are bad, you have a short memory...because the mob before them was a disaster from an economic/finance/corruption perpective. That is not even in question

What are you on about, in one year, Abhisit and Korn turned the economy around after the Asian Crisis.

They improved growth by 10% (from memory) -1.7% to + 8%. So impressive was this that Korn was voted the best finance minister in the world. Now compare that to serial liar Kittirat and I think your argument falls apart somewhat!!!

'Thailand's finance minister often stands above the crowd. That's even more the case after winning "Global Finance Minister of the Year" honors from The Financial Times' Banker magazine'.

His rice scheme gave money directly to poor farmers and cost a fraction (was amply affordable) and the farmers even admitted just prior to the election that brought these incompetents into the fray that the rice mortgage scheme DID benefit them!!!

Yes, one or two of his ministers were alleged to have committed corruption but not Abhisit and the star man KORN!!

[Prbkk]

No. Deficits of hundreds of billions of Baht. Disastrous. Korn did improve things but not Abhisit. Korn could easily be on the verge of joining ....someone you don't like....watch this space...

[AleG]

Does someone actually feel sorry for these farmers? Aren't they the ones who tried to line their own pockets by voting for crooks?

Yes, everyone feels sorry for them. It would be nice if the govt were permitted to actually get on with shifting the rice, getting the income, paying the farmers. But no, we have a clutch of pedantic , bureaucratic obstructionists determined to block what is so clearly in the best interests of everyone.

The PTP government had stopped payments to farmers months before the EC had any say in the matter, so the argument that it's the EC the one causing the problem is bogus.

They ran out of money, simple as that. They claimed they had the money and then, oopsie, no we don't. They have been kicking the can down the road as much as they can and now they found a convinient scapegoat with the EC.

[Moruya]

However much has gone missing from the rice scheme, much of it has filtered down to the farmers. The Isaan is booming, largely as a result of it. Now that the baht has weakened and the rice is saleable on the open market, 'Legal Experts' (read Ruling Elite) will decide if the government can sign a long term contract with China. Jealousy of the farmers will probably mean they wont allow it. They'd rather see the government embarrassed by stockpiles that were caused by their own insistence on a strong baht!

Filtered down?

It was supposed to be paid TO the farmers.

Not percolated off into the pockets of the well connected.

If your football club behaved the same you'd be at the gates with monkey wrenches and chains!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Moruya]

yes, agree. Consistent with my post. the policy has to change but the rate for the rice alraedy harvested and stored must be honoured...yes, at a loss, agree. I don't agree with Steve that the farmers should go without.

I'm just wondering why the government didn't budget for this before they called an election.

Maybe Kittikat didn't want to give his boss the bad news that the pot was empty?

There was an issue to do with whether a cabinet minute was required to fund...and if that could be done in caretaker mode.

That post seems to have the syntax of Yoda

Can you try again?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Moruya]

Notice you didn't answer my #77 all I said was why wasn't it paid 4/5 months ago--easy ??? that was then and now Too late, No provision made-poor governance ..

agree..but i think there was some measure of 'optimism' that the rice would be sold. but i agree that it has been very poorly managed

Optimism or blind Shinawatra arrogance?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[GentlemanJim]

Does someone actually feel sorry for these farmers? Aren't they the ones who tried to line their own pockets by voting for crooks?

Yes, everyone feels sorry for them. It would be nice if the govt were permitted to actually get on with shifting the rice, getting the income, paying the farmers. But no, we have a clutch of pedantic , bureaucratic obstructionists determined to block what is so clearly in the best interests of everyone.

I don't feel sorry for them, speak for your self.

You simply do not get this do you, there is no 'clutch of pedantic, bureaucratic obstructionists', there is NO money. Stop listening to red radio before you lose your mind totally.

The rice scam was never intended to have to last through such a political crisis as this. The PTP have bankrupted the country, believing it was unimportant as the only goal to ensure a good payout from Master in Dubai was to get him in position to run as President there bye embedding the Shinclan dynasty in control for the foreseeable future. The plan was that bankrupting the country and people didn't matter as Thaksin should have been firmly in the seat by then so it was of no consequence. This little inconvenient moment of truth was not legislated for by the Thaksin chess team, and they are using it as an excuse to blame everyone else for their gross criminal misconduct. Their lies are clearly working as they have already brainwashed people such as Prbkk, so what chance does the illiterate farmer have? The borg are coming, resistance is futile. Application already in to move all family to NZ happy days.