You Don't Understand - Finally Understood!

[Curt1591]

Anyone who has spent enough time in Thailand to discuss issues deeper than "What's for dinner?", has heard these fatal words: "You are not Thai; you don't understand." One hears this whenever any Thai person reaches a point where it appears that they cannot seem to support their position. Although I still don't know what they are thinking, I think I have reached an understanding of why.

Just like every other aspect of our Western culture, much of our education systems have little structure. We go through school, being taught by independent teachers, often requiring us to examine subjects from whatever resources we deem fit. We are liable to discover any and all sorts of information, much of it from unexamined sources, many of which may be wisely banned in Thailand. This can result in many differing points of view and a lack of harmony and discipline.

Here, in Thailand, people are taught in a structured atmosphere. Thai people are fortunate to have teachers that know what should be learned. The academics are nice enough to decide what is proper to learn and what is not to be allowed. This helps the educated society think the proper thought.

So, in the end, we Westerners are, once again, a rude, crude, undisciplined bunch. We are liable to believe or disbelieve just about anything There is no way we will ever understand. We have not had a proper education.

[Spoonman]

Iam a westerner and I do not understand what the hell you are dribbling about.

[wym]

Iam a westerner and I do not understand what the hell you are dribbling about.

TL;DR - "you don't understand Thai culture" actually means "our way is the only right way"

But this same attitude is most often exactly the cause of the farang criticizing the Thai way.

I think what it really means is "you are a foreigner so shut up about how you think things could be improved here"

And I think that's a perfectly valid POV

[NBD]

I'm going to guess it means something more like "I can't be bothered to explain it to you."

[Curt1591]

In my discussions, unless it directly affects me, I rarely take a position; I simply question the proposed position. I am not trying to expound my views; I am trying to understand theirs, and maybe, in the process, re-enforce, or help them understand their own views.

As implied in my post, I, too, think a lot of it is due to the fact that most will simply nod yes and move on. When questioned, many become uncomfortable and simply want to walk away (can't be bothered).

During my schooling, I often took opposing views, sometimes simply to offer a counterpoint. Most teachers were initially offended. But, when I explained that questioning a premise will often lead to actually thinking about it, most - at least the good ones - appreciated the discussions generated.

Rather than establishing who's right, or who's wrong, I prefer to try to understand why. Often "what" is isn't as important as "why" …..

(Hope I didn't lose Spoonman again)

[bocceball1]

Op....I am going to assume that your post was done in "sarcasm", otherwise as pointed out earlier its gibberish.

As for understanding Thai's ....well...IMO westerner's will never understand Thai thinking ....and if you ever get to that ahhhh moment where you THINK you understand Thai's....well ...you've just become delusional.

As for you more recent post and asking the question "why" ....well I think you hit the nail on the head there....throughout my education (Jesuit) that was the only thing they ever taught me ....was to question everything and discover my own answers.

Obviously the question "why" is not in the Thai education system.....And Why you ask....IMO its because the elite don't want an educated public...they like it just the way it is ....so they can exploit them.

Edited January 16, 2014 by bocceball1

[canman]

Well written bit of satire there.

[Thai at Heart]

Iam a westerner and I do not understand what the hell you are dribbling about.

TL;DR - "you don't understand Thai culture" actually means "our way is the only right way"

But this same attitude is most often exactly the cause of the farang criticizing the Thai way.

I think what it really means is "you are a foreigner so shut up about how you think things could be improved here"

And I think that's a perfectly valid POV

Depends what u mean by the thai way?

[slapout]

Does the OP remember the first time he asked one of his parents about sex? I thought not, but they probably said "your not old enough to know about that, yet" this answer, I hope gives a western slant, to the another popular quote,, 'same, same but different'. Now some may argue against my translation, but when I use the first response I heard from my parents, I get a blank look and a slight shake of the head from those within earshot, so it has the desired affect.

[thailiketoo]

In my discussions, unless it directly affects me, I rarely take a position; I simply question the proposed position. I am not trying to expound my views; I am trying to understand theirs, and maybe, in the process, re-enforce, or help them understand their own views.

As implied in my post, I, too, think a lot of it is due to the fact that most will simply nod yes and move on. When questioned, many become uncomfortable and simply want to walk away (can't be bothered).

During my schooling, I often took opposing views, sometimes simply to offer a counterpoint. Most teachers were initially offended. But, when I explained that questioning a premise will often lead to actually thinking about it, most - at least the good ones - appreciated the discussions generated.

Rather than establishing who's right, or who's wrong, I prefer to try to understand why. Often "what" is isn't as important as "why" …..

(Hope I didn't lose Spoonman again)

You wrote, "During my schooling, I often took opposing views, sometimes simply to offer a counterpoint."

Plumbing lecture, "the inlet must be higher than the outlet or the poop will back up." What is the opposing view?

Medical lecture, "your appendix has exploded (X Ray) we must take it out." What is the opposing view?

Airplane pilot lecture, "your aircraft must reach a speed of 150 miles per hour to take off." What is the opposing view?

And the last one is discussed a lot in Thailand. Electrician lecture. "you must ground the electric heater in the shower." What is the opposing view?

[Curt1591]

The OP remembers quite well. I never asked; my mother brought it up while I was still in grade school.

At the time, I was thinking a grade school equivalent of <deleted>; what's this got to do with me? But, in time, it allowed me the confidence that I could and would discuss it with her (Dad died when I was very young; step dad was a dolt).

Later in life, Mom even gave me tips on getting laid, and always offered great ideas.

There was never anything we couldn't, and wouldn't, discuss, openly and honestly.

[eldragon]

That bit about Thai education is a joke, right?

Anyway, it seems like you're overthinking this matter a bit. You're not Thai, so there's naturally going to be things you don't understand about Thais and Thailand. I'm American, and off the top of my head I can think of half a dozen things non-Americans just won't get. Heck, even within my own country there's things we don't connect on. Pretty sure a person from LA will never understand certain ways someone from NYC thinks or acts.

[Curt1591]

You wrote, "During my schooling, I often took opposing views, sometimes simply to offer a counterpoint."

Plumbing lecture, "the inlet must be higher than the outlet or the poop will back up." What is the opposing view?

Medical lecture, "your appendix has exploded (X Ray) we must take it out." What is the opposing view?

Airplane pilot lecture, "your aircraft must reach a speed of 150 miles per hour to take off." What is the opposing view?

And the last one is discussed a lot in Thailand. Electrician lecture. "you must ground the electric heater in the shower." What is the opposing view?

I did say "often".

Although much of science has concepts held as "truths", these truths were often reached through the questioning of the accepted knowledge of the time. And, in time, some of today's accepted truths may be proven wrong.

" … you must ground the electric heater in the shower." What is the opposing view?

One might argue - as most thai "builders" do - that the water heater works fine without grounding. Safety is another matter.

Airplane pilot lecture, "your aircraft must reach a speed of 150 miles per hour to take off." What is the opposing view?

One might argue that, with a good headwind, the groundspeed could be much less.

But, we are being pedantic.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Curt1591

[wym]

Iam a westerner and I do not understand what the hell you are dribbling about.

TL;DR - "you don't understand Thai culture" actually means "our way is the only right way"

But this same attitude is most often exactly the cause of the farang criticizing the Thai way.

I think what it really means is "you are a foreigner so shut up about how you think things could be improved here"

And I think that's a perfectly valid POV

Depends what u mean by the thai way?

Nearly everything people complain about here isn't "wrong" in the sense of some hypothetical "universal human" morality, but the result of different cultural programming.

Murder, true assault & rape, cannibalism are certainly valid claims for being universal, but certainly not transparent pricing same for all, the importance of punctuality and honesty, keeping transportation means clear for those who want to get from A to B quickly, forms of government, whether or not interrupting people or picking or blowing your nose is rude, what consenting adults want to do with their bodies, safety standards, the true value of human life etc etc

Are all arbitrary adn specific to a given (sub)culture.

[thailiketoo]

I did say "often".

Although much of science has concepts held as "truths", these truths were often reached through the questioning of the accepted knowledge of the time. And, in time, some of today's accepted truths may be proven wrong.

What Thailand needs is plumbers and electricians, engineers and doctors.

When poop rolls up hill and electricity does not need to be grounded and the basics of infection and sickness change let me know.

Right now nothing Thailand needs, asks for creativity of thought. Rote learning will solve all of the problems Thailand has.

Instead we have plumbers that think poop runs up hill and shower heaters don't need to be grounded. What Thailand needs is a big guy with a stick saying, "repeat after me, poop runs downhill, poop runs down hill, poop runs downhill...............

A guy from Guinness can come and teach them to make beer (repeat after me .... and don't muck about and change anything or try and be creative) . Look what creativity has done for Beer in Thailand - Chang my gosh!

[Thai at Heart]

That bit about Thai education is a joke, right?

Anyway, it seems like you're overthinking this matter a bit. You're not Thai, so there's naturally going to be things you don't understand about Thais and Thailand. I'm American, and off the top of my head I can think of half a dozen things non-Americans just won't get. Heck, even within my own country there's things we don't connect on. Pretty sure a person from LA will never understand certain ways someone from NYC thinks or acts.

Ah but the things that we don't get, Thais also know are nuts but they have been conditioned not to question.

That's where the "you don't understand" comes from. They don't understand either.

[willyumiii]

Thai education is very practical.

They teach the children what they need to get by in life.

Here in Issan, they have many celebrations and special "days" at school.

There is at least one event per month where each class will get up in front of the students and parents and perform a dance.

As a result, the girls in school are always practicing and rehearsing dance routines every day.

More time is spent on dancing and entertaining than on math or science

These are the same girls who later get out of school and move to Pattaya, Phuket or Bangkok and make a pretty good living "dancing" and " entertaining"..

The Thai schools in Isaan do a great job of preparing the Issan girls to work the bars.

We all know the best bar girls and coyote dancers are from Issan!

The boys?

They just muddle through and end up on farms or factories and get a girl who will send the money home to build a house or buy a truck..

Except the boys who will grow up be ladyboys, they work on the dancing too!

They also grow up to" entertain" in the southern cities of Thailand.

The OP is correct.

They know what these people need to learn and that is what they teach them!

I wish I was being sarcastic, but, I am not.

Edited January 16, 2014 by willyumiii

[eldragon]

Ah but the things that we don't get, Thais also know are nuts but they have been conditioned not to question.

That's where the "you don't understand" comes from. They don't understand either.

Fair point. There's definitely something to be said for that. But at the same time, just like you and I might wonder "Why is it Thais are so vague and can't be direct about things?", there's very likely a few Thais out there wondering "Why is it foreigners have to be direct and to-the-point about everything?"

[ginglee]

To the OP can I ask, in which country were you educated, and to what level? I'm from the UK, and I can't relate to anything you have said in relation to 'western education'...

[Zumteufel]

I'm going to guess it means something more like "I can't be bothered to explain it to you."

Not so much that. More like "I am not equipped to explain it to you, because I have never thought of it".

[Thai at Heart]

Ah but the things that we don't get, Thais also know are nuts but they have been conditioned not to question.

That's where the "you don't understand" comes from. They don't understand either.

Fair point. There's definitely something to be said for that. But at the same time, just like you and I might wonder "Why is it Thais are so vague and can't be direct about things?", there's very likely a few Thais out there wondering "Why is it foreigners have to be direct and to-the-point about everything?"

Because they don't want to explain because the only explanation is that it is the way it is.

Of course if you are talking about women. Well. Enough said. Lol

[sam sen]

part of the problem is the english language ability of the person doing the explaining, and/or the thai language ability of the recipient.

my GF is a lawyer and speaks excellent english, she can explain clearly and we have open and constructive discussions.

she is also open minded, as am i, and able to understand and accept the negatives and positives of our respective countries and cultures.

[Alwyn]

I'm not a Thai so I don't understand. After 12 years I don't understand and to be honest, I don't want to waste energy arguing about the rights or wrongs with a Thai because one thing I DO understand - there is not right and there is no wrong. Both are views of different belief systems and upbring. I think it's wrong to lie but a Thai would rather lie than lose face. That's what they beleive so them, it's right. If I ever get "you not Thai, you not understand" or even better "shaddup, you not understand" I translate that to mean; sigh....

[Alwyn]

I'm not a Thai so I don't understand. After 12 years I don't understand and to be honest, I don't want to waste energy arguing about the rights or wrongs with a Thai because one thing I DO understand - there is not right and there is no wrong. Both are views of different belief systems and upbring. I think it's wrong to lie but a Thai would rather lie than lose face. That's what they beleive so them, it's right. If I ever get "you not Thai, you not understand" or even better "shaddup, you not understand" I translate that to mean; sigh....

When I write "understand" you know I mean "under-sar-tand" right?

[pizzaman]

Iam a westerner and I do not understand what the hell you are dribbling about.

Same to me. Don´t have a clue what he´s talking about.

[onaeB]

It's the Thai way or the highway......both equally suicidal !

[recycler]

You have been too long in Thailand you start talking in circles to.

You should understand that this is their country and everything was invented here and nowhere else!

Everybody who is not from Thailand can't be trusted to know anything at all.

[hstnasia]

So if the Asian in a western countries try to voice out our concerns and thoughts, we are told we are un-Asian and we should just staying silently without resentment BUT when a westerners comes to Asia and think that they understand Asia well enough are encouraged to voice out their concern and thoughts freely. Aha.... Since I am an Asian in Asia, Can I only say "we should all just keep our mouth shut and keeping our faces down and continue to suck up to many westerners with superior complex?" Well, just when I thought westerns are civilized and value equality, I probably need to rethink this.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Sayonarax]

I don't understand....

[Sayonarax]

So if the Asian in a western countries try to voice out our concerns and thoughts, we are told we are un-Asian and we should just staying silently without resentment BUT when a westerners comes to Asia and think that they understand Asia well enough are encouraged to voice out their concern and thoughts freely. Aha.... Since I am an Asian in Asia, Can I only say "we should all just keep our mouth shut and keeping our faces down and continue to suck up to many westerners with superior complex?" Well, just when I thought westerns are civilized and value equality, I probably need to rethink this. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

What what? You make about as much sense as the OP.. ZERO