Bar work

[thaibeachlovers]

So swap : hanging out with your mates, getting drunk, staying up all night, flashing lights, money, main goal is to get pulled, listening to pop music,

For clocking-in, officious man telling you to make more radios or whatever, up early, no or little holidays..

I think they all have a choice, and its not a difficult one..

I think once they get accustomed to bar-life they rather enjoy it, and who can blame them?

Each to his own, if I was a woman I would work seven days a week sixteen hours a day before I even contemplated the bar work.

Self respect is important.

I could never sleep with a bar girl knowing she is watching the clock, knowing I'm just a dollar sign, just a customer.

I could never date a girl who sold out to that point for money, knowing she had thousands of men, trust would be difficult to as hustling becomes ingrained in them after a while.

If a man can take it fine, not for me I would rather go without then get involved with one.

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You seem to have a naive view of bar girls in Thailand. If the customer doesn't want a quicky, they will ( usually ) stay the night ie "long time".

<knowing she had thousands of men>

LOL. Only the most beautiful would be anywhere near that amount, and even they would probably only get a couple of customers a night/ day. So even if she got 2 a night every day of the year, that's hardly thousands, and most wouldn't work more than a couple/ few years in the bars.

The vast majority would, IMO, only score a couple of times a week, at high season. When fewer men around, even less.

[CraigSchuler]

First you need to understand that this is Thailand and Thai culture is not the same as in your home country. Prostitution has been a part of this society for many many years.

Thai's have worked the sex industry the same as if they were a cashier at the local Big C.

Some like it, some hate it while others use it to justify a means.

Providing it's their choice and not by force.....Who cares?

[simple1]

I would rather stay single for a lifetime, my personal choice. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

It was an interesting question you asked in your OP. However, if you have no experience with bar girls then maybe you shouldn't have started it ??

You don't have to date a bar girl to have some insight, do you think they tell their boyfriends the truth, the untruths could give a misguided view.

Often men will tell themselves and others stories to make themselves and others accept their partners bar career because many are not quite comfortable with it, they will portray them to be an amazing woman who is making the ultimate sacrifice out of love for the family because of her amazing heart.

Rubbish, but if it makes people feel better,why not.

I had a close friend who married a bar girl, he did that, he is single now and broke, there is absolutely nothing positive about the industry.

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extrapolate from one case you know to knock all bargirls... well done.

you know what, I know plenty of guys who have done the same in the West with girls that weren't bargirls, and the same happened!

maybe it just has to do with poor judgement in choosing their wives?

Relationships change over time. As an example divorce rate in Australia is approx 40 percent. I have known many Australians who live with ex BGs & the stability/success of the relationship is not worse than the average.

[oogster8]

You don't have to date a bar girl to have some insight, do you think they tell their boyfriends the truth, the untruths could give a misguided view.

Relationships change over time. As an example divorce rate in Australia is approx 40 percent. I have known many Australians who live with ex BGs & the stability/success of the relationship is not worse than the average.

i bet if australians were marrying bargirls the divorce rate be near 98%.

ps i have no personal experience marrying bargirls.........do guys really do that..................lol. i do a lot of observing though and do use my brain in forming opinions.

[ttthailand]

Well the "jackpot" is when they land a guy with more-than-just-enough money and get taken care of for the rest of their life.

It's not just a few that get exactly that.

So it's all about the money and not love. I for one need the love, passion and respect in my relationship.

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[wym]

ps i have no personal experience marrying bargirls.........do guys really do that..................lol. i do a lot of observing though and do use my brain in forming opinions.

I'd say 80+% of the girls marrying foreigners - probably higher for the subset where the husband spends only a little time here and then brings them home to farangland - have worked in some aspect of the sex industry.

They may not completely admit it, often claimed to "just be the waitress" or cashier or even owner of the bar (low barrier to entry on those tiny beer bars in Pattaya).

And out of all the nationalities, Australians seem to be among those least concerned about such distinctions.

Personally I agree with those that say it doesn't matter, up to you, lots of such marriages work out just fine.

And if you're smart even if things go pear-shaped you've protected yourself, fun while it lasted pick yourself up and go find the next one, NBD.

[lkn]

[…] Prostitution has been a part of this society for many many years.

[…] Providing it's their choice and not by force.....Who cares?

Prostitution has been a part of most cultures for many many years.

Most western girls would never become a prostitute and they do not have to because their parents have pension (so they do not need to support them), they have healthcare, maternity leave, paid vacation, minimum wage, a decent education, a place for their children when they are working, unemployment insurance, etc.

This is why in the west, many prostitutes are from Eastern Europa with a slow shift toward Africa (now that conditions are becoming better in Eastern Europe).

You see the same shift in Thailand toward prostitutes coming from Laos, Cambodia, and Myanmar. I’d argue that close to nobody with an actual choice in Thailand would go into prostitution. But when the alternative is working 10-12 hours a day, 28 days/month, and getting 7-10,000 baht and having to take care of your parents and your 1-2 children, then that is not really a choice.

[wym]

So it's all about the money and not love. I for one need the love, passion and respect in my relationship.

Whatever makes you happy is my point.

"love" is used for many different phenomena, the most meaningful aspect IMO is what comes from as you say respect and devotion over time, putting her before you and vice versa, takes real mindful attention and often difficult and uncomfortable work AFTER the honeymoon "feelings" aspect has faded.

This is just as possible with an ex-sex-worker as with a shopgirl or doctor.

But only if you leave yourself open to that possibility. If your preconceptions and "moral code" programming leftover from obsolete religious ideas prevent that, then no problem, limit yourself to the supposedly "nice girls", up to you whatever floats your boat.

[wym]

Id argue that close to nobody with an actual choice in Thailand would go into prostitution. But when the alternative is working 10-12 hours a day, 28 days/month, and getting 7-10,000 baht and having to take care of your parents and your 1-2 children, then that is not really a choice.

I disagree, millions upon millions of Thai women make exactly that choice their entire life.

Not that I think there's anything wrong with choosing to become a sex worker, just that the percentage of those truly forced into the industry - at least that aspect of it that services farang - is pretty darn miniscule in Thailand, in my (pretty vast) experience in the low single digit percentages.

People growing up in the slums of North America's poorest inner cities are "forced" into much worse choices, dangerous and violent criminality, by stronger pressures, fewer other options. IMO. . .

[simple1]

You don't have to date a bar girl to have some insight, do you think they tell their boyfriends the truth, the untruths could give a misguided view.

Relationships change over time. As an example divorce rate in Australia is approx 40 percent. I have known many Australians who live with ex BGs & the stability/success of the relationship is not worse than the average.

i bet if australians were marrying bargirls the divorce rate be near 98%.

ps i have no personal experience marrying bargirls.........do guys really do that..................lol. i do a lot of observing though and do use my brain in forming opinions.

Well you have not engaged your brain when reading my post; read again. However a bit more detail, known about 20+ Oz male/ Thai BG marriages over 15 & more years & as I said (admittedly a small sample) the seperation/divorce rates are about the same as the national average

[thailiketoo]

[…] Prostitution has been a part of this society for many many years.

[…] Providing it's their choice and not by force.....Who cares?

Prostitution has been a part of most cultures for many many years.

Most western girls would never become a prostitute and they do not have to because their parents have pension (so they do not need to support them), they have healthcare, maternity leave, paid vacation, minimum wage, a decent education, a place for their children when they are working, unemployment insurance, etc.

This is why in the west, many prostitutes are from Eastern Europa with a slow shift toward Africa (now that conditions are becoming better in Eastern Europe).

You see the same shift in Thailand toward prostitutes coming from Laos, Cambodia, and Myanmar. I’d argue that close to nobody with an actual choice in Thailand would go into prostitution. But when the alternative is working 10-12 hours a day, 28 days/month, and getting 7-10,000 baht and having to take care of your parents and your 1-2 children, then that is not really a choice.

Most prostitutes don't have children. Almost no go go dancers have children. Most prostitutes in the USA are Americans. Maybe a trip to Nevada, or So Ho or google Bada Bing. Hookers are just hookers and have been since the dawn of time. It's a job. Get over it. Get used to it. If a Roman from Pompeii (78 AD) was time warped into Pattaya what would he find the same? The hookers. But don't believe me google, "Graffiti in the peristyle of the House of Poppaeus Sabinus, Regio IX, Pompeii"

.

[ttthailand]

Id argue that close to nobody with an actual choice in Thailand would go into prostitution. But when the alternative is working 10-12 hours a day, 28 days/month, and getting 7-10,000 baht and having to take care of your parents and your 1-2 children, then that is not really a choice.

I disagree, millions upon millions of Thai women make exactly that choice their entire life.

Not that I think there's anything wrong with choosing to become a sex worker, just that the percentage of those truly forced into the industry - at least that aspect of it that services farang - is pretty darn miniscule in Thailand, in my (pretty vast) experience in the low single digit percentages.

People growing up in the slums of North America's poorest inner cities are "forced" into much worse choices, dangerous and violent criminality, by stronger pressures, fewer other options. IMO. . .

I agree !!! It's not that these girls are so poor and uneducated that puts them into this trade. I once knew a sweet young Thai babe who worked in the bars. She came from a good family that had enough money to send her to good schools if she wanted. She had finished high school and was a smart girl, kind of. She worked the bar to buy toys and party with her friends. She did not want out she just wanted to make money. After two years ( 21 years old) she started to look and act like she been there forever. What a waste of a young mind and body. Lie, cheat and playing games was her life and she liked it. But she always had this sad story about taking care of family.... All lies !!!

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[Somsrisonphimai]

It's hard to say no to easy work and easy money, I guess. Personally, I would go clean the toilet than let strangers be on top of me.

[thailiketoo]

It's hard to say no to easy work and easy money, I guess. Personally, I would go clean the toilet than let strangers be on top of me.

It's been my experience that the part time college students who bus into Pattaya before tuition is paid try and get to know the customers a bit. Since they are in college the English skills are better and this is easier. Another reason to pay attention in English class; it pays dividends. I agree with you. I think most men would rather be with a lady who was a friend rather than a complete stranger. In the West it is called a friend with benefits. I think they call it a gik (free) in Thailand or mia noi (paid friend).

[CraigSchuler]

It's hard to say no to easy work and easy money, I guess. Personally, I would go clean the toilet than let strangers be on top of me.

Not me.....I'd be slinging ass!

[simple1]

[…] Prostitution has been a part of this society for many many years.

[…] Providing it's their choice and not by force.....Who cares?

Prostitution has been a part of most cultures for many many years.

Most western girls would never become a prostitute and they do not have to because their parents have pension (so they do not need to support them), they have healthcare, maternity leave, paid vacation, minimum wage, a decent education, a place for their children when they are working, unemployment insurance, etc.

This is why in the west, many prostitutes are from Eastern Europa with a slow shift toward Africa (now that conditions are becoming better in Eastern Europe).

You see the same shift in Thailand toward prostitutes coming from Laos, Cambodia, and Myanmar. I’d argue that close to nobody with an actual choice in Thailand would go into prostitution. But when the alternative is working 10-12 hours a day, 28 days/month, and getting 7-10,000 baht and having to take care of your parents and your 1-2 children, then that is not really a choice.

Nor do most Thai females engage in prositiution. Estimates vary between 200k to 2 million, even at the higher end it does equate to "most". As thaiketoo has pointed out there are plenty of prostitutes within our home country nationals. e.g. in a 2009 study it was guesstimated/estimated 100k sex workers in the UK, with approx 40 percent non UK nationals.

[Somsrisonphimai]

It's hard to say no to easy work and easy money, I guess. Personally, I would go clean the toilet than let strangers be on top of me.

Not me.....I'd be slinging ass!

I say no to all positions! Ok, MOD you can delete it.

Edited January 18, 2014 by Somsrisonphimai

[Richie23]

Money only matters when you don't have any!

No sh*t Sherlock..

[Richie23]

It's hard to say no to easy work and easy money, I guess. Personally, I would go clean the toilet than let strangers be on top of me.

It's been my experience that the part time college students who bus into Pattaya before tuition is paid try and get to know the customers a bit. Since they are in college the English skills are better and this is easier. Another reason to pay attention in English class; it pays dividends. I agree with you. I think most men would rather be with a lady who was a friend rather than a complete stranger. In the West it is called

a friend with benefits. I think they call it a gik (free) in Thailand or mia noi (paid friend).

A 'gik' is supposed to be free? Jing lor? I must have a word with mine then, because it ain't ever 'free' one way or another..

[oogster8]

for gods sake. Prostitution is just a job -YES. But it is not an easy occupation to do. If it were short times would be $10 not $80.............lol.

Just go to any venue not all of them are making money. I bet more utter failures than successes. Kind of like Hollywood-few make it most dont!

[Basil B]

[…] Prostitution has been a part of this society for many many years.

[…] Providing it's their choice and not by force.....Who cares?

Prostitution has been a part of most cultures for many many years.

Most western girls would never become a prostitute and they do not have to because their parents have pension (so they do not need to support them), they have healthcare, maternity leave, paid vacation, minimum wage, a decent education, a place for their children when they are working, unemployment insurance, etc.

This is why in the west, many prostitutes are from Eastern Europa with a slow shift toward Africa (now that conditions are becoming better in Eastern Europe).

You see the same shift in Thailand toward prostitutes coming from Laos, Cambodia, and Myanmar. I’d argue that close to nobody with an actual choice in Thailand would go into prostitution. But when the alternative is working 10-12 hours a day, 28 days/month, and getting 7-10,000 baht and having to take care of your parents and your 1-2 children, then that is not really a choice.

"Prostitution has been a part of most cultures for many many years."

Eve was probably the first woman to prostitute herself even though money had not been invented then.

"Most western girls would never become a prostitute"

every woman (& Man) has a price...

[Basil B]

It's hard to say no to easy work and easy money, I guess. Personally, I would go clean the toilet than let strangers be on top of me.

You do not get as much for cleaning toilets in Thailand, as you said it is easy work.

Well the "jackpot" is when they land a guy with more-than-just-enough money and get taken care of for the rest of their life.

It's not just a few that get exactly that.

Does not end there, does not matter how rich her new found love is and gives her, she will always want more (money).

[lkn]

I agree !!! It's not that these girls are so poor and uneducated that puts them into this trade. I once knew a sweet young Thai babe who worked in the bars. She came from a good family […]

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Most prostitutes don't have children. Almost no go go dancers have children.

[…]

Most prostitutes in the USA are Americans […]

I don’t know why you think prostitutes are childless.

Teen pregnancy is a big problem in Thailand. Abortion is illegal and sex education is poor, leading to hundred of thousands teen births every year. Many of the new mothers have to drop out of school to take care of their baby, and may later turn up in Phuket or Pattaya, with their children being cared for by their parents, which they in turn have to send money.

As for prostitutes in the US, more than 15% live below the poverty line, so there is less need for foreign sex workers. I was thinking of Europe when I wrote about migrant sex workers from Eastern Europe and Africa. That said, sex trafficking is not an insignificant problem in the US.

I’d argue that close to nobody with an actual choice in Thailand would go into prostitution […]

I disagree, millions upon millions of Thai women make exactly that choice their entire life.

Not that I think there's anything wrong with choosing to become a sex worker, just that the percentage of those truly forced into the industry - at least that aspect of it that services farang - is pretty darn miniscule in Thailand, in my (pretty vast) experience in the low single digit percentages.

People growing up in the slums of North America's poorest inner cities are "forced" into much worse choices, dangerous and violent criminality, by stronger pressures, fewer other options. IMO. . .

Curious that you think poverty in the US is forcing people into bad situations, but the poor in Thailand have a real choice of where they want to end up.

I agree with you that the social mobility in the US is very low (and there is data to back that up). But I fail to see how that makes the situation in Thailand better.

[maprao]

I think that without them there would far fewer members on TV or living in Thailand. Just my two pence worth

[thailiketoo]

IKN You wrote, "I don’t know why you think prostitutes are childless."

Simple. Thai women scar very easily. Most Thai women get stretch marks very easily. Most go go dancers don't have stretch marks.

[amykat]

The vast majority of BG's were born into a life that presented them with very little opportunity.

They have the option of working hard in a kitchen, in a factory or in a field for very little money & have no safety net.

All of these options are dead end jobs & provide no opportunity to develop or progress.

Out of the limited set of options they have, being a BG has the highest chance to earn good money, build a safety net & to break the dead end cycle by marrying into a life of opportunity for her & her children.

I was with you in this post, until it got to here:

to break the dead end cycle by marrying into a life of opportunity for her & her children.

I'm not saying it isn't true to some extent ....but sort of an oxymoron ...the way to find a "rich" husband and get a good life, is to go be a hooker in a 3rd world brothel ...or something along those lines.

I'm not sure how secure a married life is anywhere these days, for a wife and some stepkids, but I guess it can be helpful and successful for some.

It is a sad state of affairs though, that people (here, based on their experiences, here) feel like this is such a common situation that some Thai ladies have this as a goal, a career path, and throw around statements such as this.

I'm not sure how many men have this as their goal as well, but as Wyn said in a post above, it seems like there should be/could be a better way to go about this which would save a lot of pain and suffering for each group!

[oogster8]

to say prostitutes dont have children burdens is silly. If you only look at top agogo girls, yes they are practically SCARless, but they are few and far between.

Ive come to the realization after many years thai hookers are genereally speaking NOT that attractive....................lol.

[oogster8]

moving to a higher class just isnt the thai way. the cycle of passing downs mom tradition of leg spreading is alive and well. Thats the thai way.

the guy who said a poor girl had 2 thai suitors who abruptly Ran away when they found out her social status is example of this.

A bargirl also confided to me she will never find a decent thai man sucking guys genitals for a living................lol. i feel bad for this girl but she is quite capable at her job......................lol.

[thailiketoo]

to say prostitutes dont have children burdens is silly. If you only look at top agogo girls, yes they are practically SCARless, but they are few and far between.

Ive come to the realization after many years thai hookers are genereally speaking NOT that attractive....................lol.

Go go dancers, coyote dancers, beer girls, promotion women and all of the women who work at the better places in Bangkok are Miss Universe quality. Some people drive Fords and others drive Mercedes. Like everything else in the world you get what you pay for.

Edited January 18, 2014 by thailiketoo

[Sam Gold]

But when the alternative is working 10-12 hours a day, 28 days/month, and getting 7-10,000 baht and having to take care of your parents and your 1-2 children, then that is not really a choice.

Stereotype. Most of them squander their money on themselves, on gold, shoes, laptops, iphones and sometimes on a Thai man.

Supporting the parents is a widespread thing in Thailand, yet a minority of women choose to work in the sex trade, there is no immediate correlation.