Thai farmers demand rice payment on Monday

[casualbiker]

So you still think this is a very successful flagship scheme of the PTP?

I never commented on the success of it. Any government has 100's of items of business going on over the course of a term. It's unlikely they are going to bat a home run on every one of them. At least they helped the poor people get free medical care. How much is that worth & how many lives did it enrich & save?

P.S. BTW, how many billions or trillions have been lost through Suthep & BKK protests in the last 2 months?

The Democrats made medical free and allowed the recipient to change from registered home hospital.

Thaksins scheme was 30b per visit. Limited to hospital closest to registered home address.

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[rubl]

The government has consistently said the rice scheme is not a money making machine. Yes, there is a late payment, but the government did not say it will not honour the late payments. Efforts are being made and you can see it is going to be sabotaged by the EC commissioners because they weighted more on political considerations than the livelihood of the people. The rice pledging scheme face many challenges that are of political nature.The farmers' protest proved that they need the money. They must not forget they need the scheme for the money as well. It is an ongoing huge scheme with many challenges that the EC commissioners is going to kill and blocking their payments.

Needing a subsidy isn't much help when it doesn't arrive. How about something radical, start working in an industry that pays enough to live on, instead of bludging on your fellow Thais and selling your votes to those willing to pander to you. This theory is also known as "get a haircut and a real job'".

It is a rice pledging scheme, not a subsidy. If it is, then there is no need to pledge, just hand out the money. If it is subsidy, the oppositions will scream as well.

Yes a pledging scheme not a subsidy. And elected caretaker PM/DM Yingluck has stated that the scheme does not make a loss. It's only an accounting loss she said, not a real loss.

As she is self stated running the country herself, she will no doubt explain all this to the NACC when they probe her.

It's bound to make a loss because more is being paid for the rice than it can be sold for. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't be needed. That isn't really the problem as all subsidies work like this. The problem is the amount of overpayment and the apparent corruption and lies that's dragging it down.

The government has indicated a few times and Thaksin has confirmed that this would be a profitable scheme for Thailand. Maybe Thailand and Shinawatras got mixed in the translation.

The farmers are promised payment, they provided their paddy and now they have nothing. So blame the government.

Without the scheme they would have sold directly to businesses and have money. The difference in price received would not be that much as seldomly poor farmers got the pledge price. A minimum price guarantee directly paid to them would help more.

BTW what's the difference of an accumulated loss requiring an extra loan of hundred++ billion Baht and a real loss? Especially as various government spokespersons, Ministers, etc. already confirmed losses between 40 to 400 billion Baht. They're still checking the book I guess to explain the wide gap.

But politicians and the world does not call it a loss.

They call it a deficit, a budget deficit to be precise, meaning the money the government is paying out is less than its getting in.

The USA is running with an ever increasing budget deficit.

Now, Suthep and the Democrats and many people on here would call that a loss would they ? Would they suggest people to be out protesting that the USA is losing more money every day, every second the LOSS is increasing ?

Running a government on a budget deficit is quite normal around the world, so please, do not say LOSS, just use the normal word of deficit............... a budget deficit.

I don't think most here understand economics or national budgets compared to personal banking and losing money let alone budget deficits

but ... but ... the scheme was supposed to be profitable, Thaksin said so.

also there was no provision in the National budget for the rice price pldging. It's all borrowing from a state bank and outside the National Budget.

Sadly some refuse to see the criminal aspects of that.

[rubl]

The government has consistently said the rice scheme is not a money making machine. Yes, there is a late payment, but the government did not say it will not honour the late payments. Efforts are being made and you can see it is going to be sabotaged by the EC commissioners because they weighted more on political considerations than the livelihood of the people. The rice pledging scheme face many challenges that are of political nature.The farmers' protest proved that they need the money. They must not forget they need the scheme for the money as well. It is an ongoing huge scheme with many challenges that the EC commissioners is going to kill and blocking their payments.

Needing a subsidy isn't much help when it doesn't arrive. How about something radical, start working in an industry that pays enough to live on, instead of bludging on your fellow Thais and selling your votes to those willing to pander to you. This theory is also known as "get a haircut and a real job'".

It is a rice pledging scheme, not a subsidy. If it is, then there is no need to pledge, just hand out the money. If it is subsidy, the oppositions will scream as well.

Yes a pledging scheme not a subsidy. And elected caretaker PM/DM Yingluck has stated that the scheme does not make a loss. It's only an accounting loss she said, not a real loss.

As she is self stated running the country herself, she will no doubt explain all this to the NACC when they probe her.

It's bound to make a loss because more is being paid for the rice than it can be sold for. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't be needed. That isn't really the problem as all subsidies work like this. The problem is the amount of overpayment and the apparent corruption and lies that's dragging it down.

The government has indicated a few times and Thaksin has confirmed that this would be a profitable scheme for Thailand. Maybe Thailand and Shinawatras got mixed in the translation.

The farmers are promised payment, they provided their paddy and now they have nothing. So blame the government.

Without the scheme they would have sold directly to businesses and have money. The difference in price received would not be that much as seldomly poor farmers got the pledge price. A minimum price guarantee directly paid to them would help more.

BTW what's the difference of an accumulated loss requiring an extra loan of hundred++ billion Baht and a real loss? Especially as various government spokespersons, Ministers, etc. already confirmed losses between 40 to 400 billion Baht. They're still checking the book I guess to explain the wide gap.

When did the Government and/or Thaksin said it is a money making scheme - you called it profitable for Thailand? The government never say it will be problem free. The farmers accepted the scheme and voted the PTP. They were never force to participate in the scheme. For their own good they should guard themselves against the temptation to exploit or create a loophole for corruption and irregularity and cooperate with the government to root them up. They knew they will be challenges from the oppositions.

To me, the real loss is when the scheme do not better the life of those farmers who work hard and result in domestic spending and growth in related industries. At the moment from your posting it is hard for me to know what you are looking for. I may be wrong, you are focusing more on the balance sheet instead of the economy of the country as a whole. Using manufacturing as an example, investing in machinery or technology is a loss as far as book keeping is concerned. However, it is measured in the return of its investment. Funding in Investment of machinery or technology were usually through loan. The ROI in investing in the well being of rice farmers can be measured in term of food security, social security, related industries growth, development and expansion. The government can create opportunities, facilitate growth and encourage those who are willing to work hard and see the opportunities.

I don't know how you gather information. 40 to 400 millions is a wide gap. Which means all the figures so far are speculative and from different methods and book-keeping perspective.

I believe the Government is continually fine tuning the operations of its rice pledging scheme while the oppositions focus on smearing it.

"“We do not just throw away the money,” Thaksin said. The program will lead to higher government revenue through the sale of stockpiled grain, increased local consumption and will help cushion Thailand from the effects of the European debt crisis, he said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-24/thai-rice-policy-should-stay-several-more-years-thaksin-says.html

As for the 40 to 400 billion spread, it all depends on which l...ing not-so-caretaking government official you ask.

Edited January 19, 2014 by rubl

[Thait Spot]

I believe a survey published over the past few days has shown that 20% of Bangkokians have attended the protest.

In the last 2 months total or in one day as Suthep claims?

Does this include all those who just stood by the road or at their shops as Suthep passed by?

What area was the survey conducted in, just those near the protest sites? The richer areas of the city?

The survey asked people if they had participated.

I'm sure you can find the details for yourself

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[metisdead]

Posts using derogatory nicknames or intentional misspelling of people’s names will be removed. If you don’t want your post to be removed, spell people’s names correctly.

[icommunity]

The government has consistently said the rice scheme is not a money making machine. Yes, there is a late payment, but the government did not say it will not honour the late payments. Efforts are being made and you can see it is going to be sabotaged by the EC commissioners because they weighted more on political considerations than the livelihood of the people. The rice pledging scheme face many challenges that are of political nature.The farmers' protest proved that they need the money. They must not forget they need the scheme for the money as well. It is an ongoing huge scheme with many challenges that the EC commissioners is going to kill and blocking their payments.

Needing a subsidy isn't much help when it doesn't arrive. How about something radical, start working in an industry that pays enough to live on, instead of bludging on your fellow Thais and selling your votes to those willing to pander to you. This theory is also known as "get a haircut and a real job'".

It is a rice pledging scheme, not a subsidy. If it is, then there is no need to pledge, just hand out the money. If it is subsidy, the oppositions will scream as well.

Yes a pledging scheme not a subsidy. And elected caretaker PM/DM Yingluck has stated that the scheme does not make a loss. It's only an accounting loss she said, not a real loss.

As she is self stated running the country herself, she will no doubt explain all this to the NACC when they probe her.

It's bound to make a loss because more is being paid for the rice than it can be sold for. If that wasn't the case it wouldn't be needed. That isn't really the problem as all subsidies work like this. The problem is the amount of overpayment and the apparent corruption and lies that's dragging it down.

The government has indicated a few times and Thaksin has confirmed that this would be a profitable scheme for Thailand. Maybe Thailand and Shinawatras got mixed in the translation.

The farmers are promised payment, they provided their paddy and now they have nothing. So blame the government.

Without the scheme they would have sold directly to businesses and have money. The difference in price received would not be that much as seldomly poor farmers got the pledge price. A minimum price guarantee directly paid to them would help more.

BTW what's the difference of an accumulated loss requiring an extra loan of hundred++ billion Baht and a real loss? Especially as various government spokespersons, Ministers, etc. already confirmed losses between 40 to 400 billion Baht. They're still checking the book I guess to explain the wide gap.

When did the Government and/or Thaksin said it is a money making scheme - you called it profitable for Thailand? The government never say it will be problem free. The farmers accepted the scheme and voted the PTP. They were never force to participate in the scheme. For their own good they should guard themselves against the temptation to exploit or create a loophole for corruption and irregularity and cooperate with the government to root them up. They knew they will be challenges from the oppositions.

To me, the real loss is when the scheme do not better the life of those farmers who work hard and result in domestic spending and growth in related industries. At the moment from your posting it is hard for me to know what you are looking for. I may be wrong, you are focusing more on the balance sheet instead of the economy of the country as a whole. Using manufacturing as an example, investing in machinery or technology is a loss as far as book keeping is concerned. However, it is measured in the return of its investment. Funding in Investment of machinery or technology were usually through loan. The ROI in investing in the well being of rice farmers can be measured in term of food security, social security, related industries growth, development and expansion. The government can create opportunities, facilitate growth and encourage those who are willing to work hard and see the opportunities.

I don't know how you gather information. 40 to 400 millions is a wide gap. Which means all the figures so far are speculative and from different methods and book-keeping perspective.

I believe the Government is continually fine tuning the operations of its rice pledging scheme while the oppositions focus on smearing it.

"“We do not just throw away the money,” Thaksin said. The program will lead to higher government revenue through the sale of stockpiled grain, increased local consumption and will help cushion Thailand from the effects of the European debt crisis, he said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-24/thai-rice-policy-should-stay-several-more-years-thaksin-says.html

As for the 40 to 400 billion spread, it all depends on which l...ing not-so-caretaking government official you ask.

I suggest you read the whole report again. In a volatile international market and changing situation in social, political, climate and human factor, events can changed so quickly that require a government to always be on 'good condition' to mitigate and manage the economy for the good of its citizen. I read economic reports like bloomberg and from various risk management company. What Thakin said is his personal opinion during an interview.

PTP led government never said the rice pledging scheme will be without challenges. I believe the Government is continually fine tuning the operations of its rice pledging scheme while the oppositions focus on finding loophole to exploit and smearing game.

Edited January 19, 2014 by icommunity

[englishoak]

I believe a survey published over the past few days has shown that 20% of Bangkokians have attended the protest.

In the last 2 months total or in one day as Suthep claims?

Does this include all those who just stood by the road or at their shops as Suthep passed by?

What area was the survey conducted in, just those near the protest sites? The richer areas of the city?

The survey asked people if they had participated.

I'm sure you can find the details for yourself

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So they asked every person in Bangkok then or a few hundred and that will depend on the area ?

You said it so provide the link or you made it up.

if your suggesting about 2 million from Bangkok have attended at some point I find that very very hard to believe since 50% or more walking about are bussed in. Or are you counting the thousands making money out of selling stuff to the protesters or working on the sites and are being paid a salary because they dont count either.

Come on snap surveys are all bunk unless its a referendum or census.

[Basil B]

So they get paid do you think it is going to end happily with all them rice farmers voting PTP?

Probably even they can work this one out, the "rice subsidy scheme" is a dead duck and anyone who promises its continuation with prompt payments is telling big porkies.

[rubl]

The government has indicated a few times and Thaksin has confirmed that this would be a profitable scheme for Thailand. Maybe Thailand and Shinawatras got mixed in the translation.

The farmers are promised payment, they provided their paddy and now they have nothing. So blame the government.

Without the scheme they would have sold directly to businesses and have money. The difference in price received would not be that much as seldomly poor farmers got the pledge price. A minimum price guarantee directly paid to them would help more.

BTW what's the difference of an accumulated loss requiring an extra loan of hundred++ billion Baht and a real loss? Especially as various government spokespersons, Ministers, etc. already confirmed losses between 40 to 400 billion Baht. They're still checking the book I guess to explain the wide gap.

When did the Government and/or Thaksin said it is a money making scheme - you called it profitable for Thailand? The government never say it will be problem free. The farmers accepted the scheme and voted the PTP. They were never force to participate in the scheme. For their own good they should guard themselves against the temptation to exploit or create a loophole for corruption and irregularity and cooperate with the government to root them up. They knew they will be challenges from the oppositions.

To me, the real loss is when the scheme do not better the life of those farmers who work hard and result in domestic spending and growth in related industries. At the moment from your posting it is hard for me to know what you are looking for. I may be wrong, you are focusing more on the balance sheet instead of the economy of the country as a whole. Using manufacturing as an example, investing in machinery or technology is a loss as far as book keeping is concerned. However, it is measured in the return of its investment. Funding in Investment of machinery or technology were usually through loan. The ROI in investing in the well being of rice farmers can be measured in term of food security, social security, related industries growth, development and expansion. The government can create opportunities, facilitate growth and encourage those who are willing to work hard and see the opportunities.

I don't know how you gather information. 40 to 400 millions is a wide gap. Which means all the figures so far are speculative and from different methods and book-keeping perspective.

I believe the Government is continually fine tuning the operations of its rice pledging scheme while the oppositions focus on smearing it.

"“We do not just throw away the money,” Thaksin said. The program will lead to higher government revenue through the sale of stockpiled grain, increased local consumption and will help cushion Thailand from the effects of the European debt crisis, he said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-24/thai-rice-policy-should-stay-several-more-years-thaksin-says.html

As for the 40 to 400 billion spread, it all depends on which l...ing not-so-caretaking government official you ask.

I suggest you read the whole report again. In a volatile international market and changing situation in social, political, climate and human factor, events can changed so quickly that require a government to always be on 'good condition' to mitigate and manage the economy for the good of its citizen. I read economic reports like bloomberg and from various risk management company. What Thakin said is his personal opinion during an interview.

PTP led government never said the rice pledging scheme will be without challenges. I believe the Government is continually fine tuning the operations of its rice pledging scheme while the oppositions focus on finding loophole to exploit and smearing game.

In my universe the Pheu Thai led government decided to setup a socalled 'revolving funds' outside the National Budget. The funds was 'filled' by granting itself permission to borrow up to 500 billion Baht of the State Bank BAAC. The idea was that payments were to be made from this funds and procedings of rice sales to be put back into the funds. "revolving".

This worked so tremendously well that the government had to borrow two times already with a third time now 130 billion.

BTW again in my universe here what Thaksin said was the governments opinion as expressed by a well-meaning golf caddy.

[Skywalker69]

The farmers cannot be paid as Suthep demanded the House dissolved and all the Democrat Party MP's resigned.

So this messed up the payments.

And until an election is carried out and a new government is installed, the payments cannot be made.

So really, Suthep and Abhisit/Democrats are to blame for the lack of payment in many peoples eyes and those same people want an election as soon as possible else they will months and months without payment.

Fail Fail for Suthep and Abhisit/Democrats.

Fail as they are getting blamed for late payment.

Fail as they want to delay the election.

In my opinion the above of course.

Wrong, the farmers has'nt been paid since October because the government is out of money.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[kimamey]

The government has indicated a few times and Thaksin has confirmed that this would be a profitable scheme for Thailand. Maybe Thailand and Shinawatras got mixed in the translation.

The farmers are promised payment, they provided their paddy and now they have nothing. So blame the government.

Without the scheme they would have sold directly to businesses and have money. The difference in price received would not be that much as seldomly poor farmers got the pledge price. A minimum price guarantee directly paid to them would help more.

BTW what's the difference of an accumulated loss requiring an extra loan of hundred++ billion Baht and a real loss? Especially as various government spokespersons, Ministers, etc. already confirmed losses between 40 to 400 billion Baht. They're still checking the book I guess to explain the wide gap.

When did the Government and/or Thaksin said it is a money making scheme - you called it profitable for Thailand? The government never say it will be problem free. The farmers accepted the scheme and voted the PTP. They were never force to participate in the scheme. For their own good they should guard themselves against the temptation to exploit or create a loophole for corruption and irregularity and cooperate with the government to root them up. They knew they will be challenges from the oppositions.

To me, the real loss is when the scheme do not better the life of those farmers who work hard and result in domestic spending and growth in related industries. At the moment from your posting it is hard for me to know what you are looking for. I may be wrong, you are focusing more on the balance sheet instead of the economy of the country as a whole. Using manufacturing as an example, investing in machinery or technology is a loss as far as book keeping is concerned. However, it is measured in the return of its investment. Funding in Investment of machinery or technology were usually through loan. The ROI in investing in the well being of rice farmers can be measured in term of food security, social security, related industries growth, development and expansion. The government can create opportunities, facilitate growth and encourage those who are willing to work hard and see the opportunities.

I don't know how you gather information. 40 to 400 millions is a wide gap. Which means all the figures so far are speculative and from different methods and book-keeping perspective.

I believe the Government is continually fine tuning the operations of its rice pledging scheme while the oppositions focus on smearing it.

"We do not just throw away the money, Thaksin said. The program will lead to higher government revenue through the sale of stockpiled grain, increased local consumption and will help cushion Thailand from the effects of the European debt crisis, he said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-24/thai-rice-policy-should-stay-several-more-years-thaksin-says.html

As for the 40 to 400 billion spread, it all depends on which l...ing not-so-caretaking government official you ask.

I suggest you read the whole report again. In a volatile international market and changing situation in social, political, climate and human factor, events can changed so quickly that require a government to always be on 'good condition' to mitigate and manage the economy for the good of its citizen. I read economic reports like bloomberg and from various risk management company. What Thakin said is his personal opinion during an interview.

PTP led government never said the rice pledging scheme will be without challenges. I believe the Government is continually fine tuning the operations of its rice pledging scheme while the oppositions focus on finding loophole to exploit and smearing game.

I think the government did try to alter the amount paid but backed down when the farmers protested.

[Centrum]

The farmers cannot be paid as Suthep demanded the House dissolved and all the Democrat Party MP's resigned.

So this messed up the payments.

And until an election is carried out and a new government is installed, the payments cannot be made.

So really, Suthep and Abhisit/Democrats are to blame for the lack of payment in many peoples eyes and those same people want an election as soon as possible else they will months and months without payment.

Fail Fail for Suthep and Abhisit/Democrats.

Fail as they are getting blamed for late payment.

Fail as they want to delay the election.

In my opinion the above of course.

Isn't it funny how the Thaksin fan-boys, who claim that Yingluck is the democratically elected leader of the country, want to blame the Democrats for the failure to pay the rice pledge.

She is the one who dissolved parliament, not the Democrats.

All these 'respect my vote' people should be hunting down Yingluck because she is the one who disrespected their votes.

I think that it's likely that the Thaksin party knew the shitstorm that was going to hit with the failure of their promises to the farmers and ran and hid. Probably hoping for a coup.

[JRSoul]

The farmers cannot be paid as Suthep demanded the House dissolved and all the Democrat Party MP's resigned.

So this messed up the payments.

And until an election is carried out and a new government is installed, the payments cannot be made.

So really, Suthep and Abhisit/Democrats are to blame for the lack of payment in many peoples eyes and those same people want an election as soon as possible else they will months and months without payment.

Fail Fail for Suthep and Abhisit/Democrats.

Fail as they are getting blamed for late payment.

Fail as they want to delay the election.

In my opinion the above of course.

Isn't it funny how the Thaksin fan-boys, who claim that Yingluck is the democratically elected leader of the country, want to blame the Democrats for the failure to pay the rice pledge.

She is the one who dissolved parliament, not the Democrats.

All these 'respect my vote' people should be hunting down Yingluck because she is the one who disrespected their votes.

I think that it's likely that the Thaksin party knew the shitstorm that was going to hit with the failure of their promises to the farmers and ran and hid. Probably hoping for a coup.

If they can't get a coup, any legal decision which goes against them will be branded a "judicial coup" which seems to be equally abhorrent to those claiming "We dun nuffink rong!"