Oust me by voting, Yingluck urges opponents

[Thait Spot]

You are ousting yourself Yingluck ... seems to me you have been fast tracked for a 5 year political ban

Your lack of leadership skills and inability to answer a simple question and your continued endorsement of the rice scam will be your own undoing ... hope Thaksin has a spare room in Dubai for you

Unmarried couples are not welcome in Dubai

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[Thait Spot]

Don't be a lying idiot. How is the Feb 2 election going to solve the political conflict? So what if you win it? People will still hate you and your brother. The only way to solve this conflict is for your government to distance itself from your idiot brother and actually try to govern this country without any interference from him. You may not be able to govern wisely because most of you are idiots but at very least, try not to come up with hare brained schemes like the rice pledging or tablets for children!

Obviously, you are the idiot and have no understanding of Thai politics. Name me one, just one, Thai government that has not been corrupt since 1932.

All of these political parties, and demonstration leaders, act like special interest groups with little interest in the Thai people. As you might have noticed most of the members of parliament, the cabinet, the recent prime ministers, Suthep, Abhisit, Yingluck, Thaksin et al are Chinese (Sino-Thais) who are interested in power, prestige and money.

The Suthep group wants to deny Thais any influence in politics. It may have not been much but Thaksin/Yingluck have done something for Thai people. This is a big difference, which is why the latter get the votes.

Suthep, representing the Bangkok Chinese, does not like the Thai people from the north and northeast because they will not vote the way he wants. Thus, he wants to establish an oligarchy in which Bangkok Chinese rule the country, and the rural Thais are shut out from politics.

It is far better to have democracy of the Shinawatra kind than have no democracy or an oligarchy ruling in its own interests.

Next time think before you post!

" Name me one, just one, Thai government that has not been corrupt since 1932."

The current government has only been corrupt since 2011

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Thait Spot]

Does anyone here think that PTP will get the majority of elligible voters?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[northernjohn]

Don't be a lying idiot. How is the Feb 2 election going to solve the political conflict? So what if you win it? People will still hate you and your brother. The only way to solve this conflict is for your government to distance itself from your idiot brother and actually try to govern this country without any interference from him. You may not be able to govern wisely because most of you are idiots but at very least, try not to come up with hare brained schemes like the rice pledging or tablets for children!

BUT, the Thai people voted for them with a big majority........Yes or No.............

Doesn't matter who governs, none of them have a clue. So where does the country go..........?

If they win with a 'big majority', so what? Will it solve the conflict and the divide in this country? Will it stop the violence? She's lying through her teeth because you're going to have all sorts of bombs going off before, during and also AFTER the elections. Saying the political conflict will be over after elections is as usual a big fat lie from her.

Well two things. If the elections come off on Feb2 there will be no winner. Not enough candidates to vote on who the PM would be Secondly If their are all sorts of bombs going off with the history of her red shirt backers people will know who is responsible and she will do every thing in her power to shut them down.

She maybe a Shinawatra but she is not one who provokes bloodshed purposely. She is not blood thirsty. I honestly think she deplores it. I am an Abhist supporter but willing to admit she does have some good points. Also Abhist has some bad ones.

[djjamie]

That old chestnut called elections again.

The only principle they adhere too.

I dare the fanboys to tell me what principle of democracy they adhered too post ballot box...

There are 14 to chose from..

Come on…Pick one!

Don't reply with "Elections are the start of democracy" Yes, BUT It is a gate way to allow a govt to prove they are democratic. It is not the end of democracy.

Come on?

Is democracy the PTP / UDD threatening judges if they don't give the "correct" decision? Telling Phuket that if they don't vote for the PTP they will get nothing of what they want? Telling environmentalists they are garbage? Holding public hearings the public can't attend? Administering a rice scheme they can't pay for and then have the audacity to blame the DEMS for the non payments? Voting 307-0 for an amnesty that 81% of the population didn't want?

What are your thoughts on those "other" principles the PTP don't only adhere too, but reject with complete contempt.

If you don't think it is contempt then ask, World bank, Moody's, UNHCR, Human Rights Watch, the environmentalists, the corn farmer, the rubber farmers, global economists and IMF.

All denounced by the PTP and the UDD (paramilitary arm of the PTP)

If you admire the UDD and admire the PTP then this website is not the one you should be on.

May I recommend http://www.mind.org.uk

Edited January 17, 2014 by djjamie

[moradave]

This whole farce is predicated upon a legitimate government asking for their being voted for in an 'election'. Those posters crying for a Western style democracy should ask themselves how they would respond to their home countries being run by proxy from a criminal fugitive, such proxy now being investigated for the sequestration of billions of dollars from state coffers, and no wait, , asking for a further feed at the trough!

If the situation was this bad in the USA, impeachment by the House would be mounted with trial before the Senate. If found guilty, all parties would be removed from office and a new President designated according to the constitution. That president would then form a new cabinet and government to serve until the next regularly scheduled election. Impeachment of the President has only been done twice in US history with no convictions by the Senate.

Edited January 17, 2014 by moradave

[Baerboxer]

Don't be a lying idiot. How is the Feb 2 election going to solve the political conflict? So what if you win it? People will still hate you and your brother. The only way to solve this conflict is for your government to distance itself from your idiot brother and actually try to govern this country without any interference from him. You may not be able to govern wisely because most of you are idiots but at very least, try not to come up with hare brained schemes like the rice pledging or tablets for children!

BUT, the Thai people voted for them with a big majority........Yes or No.............

Doesn't matter who governs, none of them have a clue. So where does the country go..........?

No - and you know that answer very well. They got the largest minority vote - 48% of the 75% of eligible votes cast. Not even a tiny weeny majority.

[tomacht8]

If PT win (which of course they will) then they should be the ones running the country, no question. The problem that's happened, the Government abused its position in a huge way. So reforms are needed before an election can come about again.

What exactly are those reforms needed?

At a minimum, off the top of my head, there are a wide number of measures in which Thailand is failing, and the only way they will be addressed is with reform, whether before or after an election, first there must be agreement that, for instance, reform is needed on the following:

- freedom of the press and freedom to communicate ideas without political interference (impossible currently and really difficult since 2007)

- proper oversight of budget and spending - it is Thai people who pay the costs of the government budget, it is not politicians' money to spend as they wish without oversight as is being proposed and has occurred with multiple examples (flood management, rail system, rice scheme)

- separation and respect for separation of powers especially judiciary and legislative branches

- ability of candidates to canvas for support or present their ideas in a fair and neutral environment (impossible with red shirt villages for instance) during an election (note some candidates were not even able to register, and different parties were treated differently)

- severe and genuine punishment for lies and misrepresentation by parties or individuals with no exceptions

- severe punishment for vote buying or electoral fraud

- respect for the constitution - it is INSANITY to allow a convicted fugitive who refuses to return to Thailand to be allowed by the foreign minister to wander around the world freely while the government campaigns foreign governments for him to be able to do so, when the letter of the law states their job is return him to face justice. It is INSANITY to allow said individual to be allowed to effectively run the government - I don't care if you were elected, that's not a blank cheque to do what you want

- reduction in corruption with increase in oversight by the public and watch dogs

- increase in penalties for corruption and inciting unrest outside of what is allowed in the constitution, with genuine attempts to punish leaders who encourage others to break the law (this is one reason why the entire amnesty idea was frigging dumb from the beginning)

- a more evolved political system which reduces the power of the regional godfathers who control the rural vote for the most part (admittedly slowly decreasing) and are in turn controlled by the fugitive from Dubai on one side of the house, and by some very unsavoury individuals in the opposition on the other - this one is very tough but vital to handling some of the corruption related issues - some of the items above are required to ensure that the political system evolves

- a meritocracy in the civil service with major rewards to stamp out corruption and major punishments for condoning it - the fear of the fugitive in Dubai and his methods is why so many civil servants will not admit publically to the corruption they will privately tell some very shocking stories about that we all know (we can read Thaksin former ally turned enemy turned ally Sanoh for a typical example)

- a bigger picture issue: equality. It is indeed true that rich people are treated differently than poor in Thailand, especially people of influence. That the Deputy PM's son could get away with murder, or a rich kid can drive into a cop, or a bunch of rich politicians can defraud the country of billions...and yet a poor person can go to jail on trumped up charges. Or that certain rich people get the government to work for them to lie, create FTAs or policy to tilt the playing field in their favour - this is a longterm issue that can only be resolved with respect for the law starting from the top and working down - do we see politicians respecting the law? that's as funny as anything Steve Colbert can come out with.

Now one might say......none of the above matter. Some would say if I am PM, if I have a majority in parliament then I can do what I want, and if I want to in fact tilt the business environment, reward my supporters however undeserved, reduce media freedom and increased control, increase corruption that enriches me, interfere with every other branch of power, reduce any oversight, ignore the constitution, eliminate any vestige of meritocracy and only reward my allies.....I can BECAUSE I WON THE ELECTION outright. So people chose me to do what I said I would, and therefore the law doesn't apply.

Ok, let's push it further. We've seen laws made for personal profit by Thaksin, 'because he was elected he could do it'. We've seen both sides select and remove people for political, not country benefit. We've seen ongoing attempts especially by TRT/PPP/PT to remove oversight even when it was set out in the consitution. We see vast amounts of government budget used for pork, personal advertising, personal travel, popularist schemes that will make the country broke....justified "because I won the election".

We've gone through this exact scenario in 2005/6. It does not end well. For anyone.

The purpose of a functioning democracy is not a popularity contest where the majority elect their party to look after their interests (or to do whatever they want). Rather it is to select the best possible people, chosen by their peers, to look after EVERYONE'S interests including the minorities who cannot vote, or cannot secure election wins.

The answer is pretty simple. There must be genuine compromise on both sides. Both sides agree on reform, a neutral viewpoint is currently a successful next election is an impossibility, it is a pointless waste of our cash with an almost guaranteed null outcome. To say that it cannot be moved is simply not true, and for Yingluck to blindly keep repeating her right as she was elected with a majority is not a compromise.

We know PT are buying up smaller parties to make up the shortfall of voter losses they think they are going to see. This buying up of factions is something that overseas media simply do not understand, and their inability to understand it is why they do not see the issues facing Thailand are not quite the same as some other countries.

The protesters rejecting every offer, however opportunistic and insincere many have been, is also not a compromise.

The real compromise starts with genuine talks, similar to what we saw with the red shirts with the PM, except of course the red shirt leader who should be on trial for treason, was not in the room and was supposedly sending SMSs to cease talks since amnesty was not on the cards.

The problem must be resolved between the leaders to create a path that all agree on, then the election becomes less important, less of a hot potato. Both sides claim a commitment to reform. Maybe both sides are insincere. But let us all hear what those reforms should be, because the current scenario similar to 2006 is not going to end well for any of us.

Reform IMHO means there must be acceptance of consequences, with action comes consequence, and the start is chronological, each and every corruption/civil unrest case should be reviewed and completed even if the defendant refuses to attend. No amnesty, no people let off the hook, no <deleted> about 'I was elected so I don't have to participate' and certainly no more rubbish about personal wars against 1 family; let them have their day in court, we all know Yingluck has little to do with government policy anyhow, she should be considered merely a secretary, not a PM. After all, that is her work history with AIS/SC Asset anyhow.

Very good points.

The problem is, that the country's leaders do not want any reforms.

Suthep and the Taksin Government are elites.

They all lived so good from the corruption in the past, why they should change that?

Or otherwise how they would then come to money?

With honest work?

Since three weeks, not one meaningful reform proposal from the leaders, neither from Suthep or from the government.

The mass media and terrestrial television are totally under control.

New, solution-oriented, neutral voices did not come through.

No matter when the next election will be, I would be satisfied if they simple,

exclude then, all persons from the Parliament and from electoral lists which

a have criminal records.

b running free on bail.

c were already banned from parliament in the past.

d against are corruption or crime cases opened.

Again why they should reform this?

Guess around 70% of the politicians from the last Parliament would then be out.

Edited January 17, 2014 by tomacht8

[casualbiker]

They won by buying votes on a massive scale. Why do you guys keep forgetting that.

Robin Hood bought votes by taking from the rich to give to the poor.

What's wrong with that. The tax money has to go somewhere, doesn't it. Free medical care is something you oppose?

Vote buying. Everyone does it. You know you want to too.

Sure Robin Hood took from the rich and gave it to the poor whereas Robbing Thaksin took and still is taking from the poor and giving it to the rich.

Giving free medical care to the poor is the opposite of what you said & very Robin Hood esque.

Yes.. The Dems did a good job there. I'm glad you noticed.. The Dems also made Secondary education Education (to M3-15 year old. previously P6- 11 years old) MANDATORY and FREE... Well done those Dems

Edited January 17, 2014 by casualbiker

[casualbiker]

Don't be a lying idiot. How is the Feb 2 election going to solve the political conflict? So what if you win it? People will still hate you and your brother. The only way to solve this conflict is for your government to distance itself from your idiot brother and actually try to govern this country without any interference from him. You may not be able to govern wisely because most of you are idiots but at very least, try not to come up with hare brained schemes like the rice pledging or tablets for children!

BUT, the Thai people voted for them with a big majority........Yes or No.............

Doesn't matter who governs, none of them have a clue. So where does the country go..........?

No - and you know that answer very well. They got the largest minority vote - 48% of the 75% of eligible votes cast. Not even a tiny weeny majority.

Yep.. 15million voted for PTP, 16 million voted for some other parties.

[Baerboxer]

She is absolutely correct: If you want to bring down the Shins and the PT government, vote them out. All but 28 seats will be up for grabs on Feb 2nd. Get off the streets, give Bangkok residents their streets back and go back to democtratic campaigning.

Yes lets have another round of red shirt villages beating and bribing their people to vote red lets have a new deposit of money from Dubai to do it with - lets have her back in power to bring a new amnesty bill to bring back the criminal so he can be president!! - she must thisnk the people of Thailand are ALL stupid!! - We are NOT!!

If you believe that, you obviously have never visited any villages/towns in the North or North East. In the past, sure, the peoples votes were for sale - 500 baht was all they ever got out of the political process. Nowadays, they'll take the money if its offered, they are poor they have no choice, but is won't affect the way they vote.They have been politicised by the 'man form Dubai'. They now vote out of conviction. I know because I have relatives who live in these villages. They are decent people, who have never had a jot out of the political process. Now they are stakeholders and YOU, along with the rest of the yellow thugs, are an arrogant little prick for saying otherwise.

Crap. All my relatives in Isaan vote who they're told to vote for by the Poo Yai Baan. He has to deliver the whole village votes to get the money for everybody. If people vote otherwise, which becomes obvious when the votes are counted, then no money for anyone. Clever little bit of peer pressure - or intimidation.

All my relatives and the friends I've made in that area are hard working, mostly honest people, who've had little education. Not their fault - never had the opportunity. They are very clever about agriculture but politics, finance, what's really going on in the world - forget it. They take the money because they are very poor - 500 or 1k baht is a lot of money to them. They are currently more poor thanks to not being paid for rice by PTP and being fed lies.

Hopefully this will change. Most folks I know have worked their <deleted> off and scrimped and saved to get a higher and university education for their kids, These younger people spend time on social media and will form their own political opinions. Not based on bribes, lies and intimidation, or being told by others what to do. That prospect must be equally frightening for the old guard HiSo Chinese elite and the new HiSo Chinese Shin clan. Both want to exploit the Thai masses for their own greed and lust for prestige and power.

These hard working decent people deserve better than the corrupt elite <deleted> that's dominated them for too long. And anyone who thinks the Shins are different and their saviours is a prat.

[Baerboxer]

Don't be a lying idiot. How is the Feb 2 election going to solve the political conflict? So what if you win it? People will still hate you and your brother. The only way to solve this conflict is for your government to distance itself from your idiot brother and actually try to govern this country without any interference from him. You may not be able to govern wisely because most of you are idiots but at very least, try not to come up with hare brained schemes like the rice pledging or tablets for children!

BUT, the Thai people voted for them with a big majority........Yes or No.............

Doesn't matter who governs, none of them have a clue. So where does the country go..........?

No - and you know that answer very well. They got the largest minority vote - 48% of the 75% of eligible votes cast. Not even a tiny weeny majority.

Yep.. 15million voted for PTP, 16 million voted for some other parties.

Wow - a real "landslide" then, as the government sympathizers often remind us (along with the idiots from the BBC and AFP),

[englishoak]

All my relatives and the friends I've made in that area are hard working, mostly honest people, who've had little education. Not their fault - never had the opportunity. They are very clever about agriculture but politics, finance, what's really going on in the world - forget it. They take the money because they are very poor - 500 or 1k baht is a lot of money to them. They are currently more poor thanks to not being paid for rice by PTP and being fed lies.

Hopefully this will change. Most folks I know have worked their <deleted> off and scrimped and saved to get a higher and university education for their kids, These younger people spend time on social media and will form their own political opinions. Not based on bribes, lies and intimidation, or being told by others what to do. That prospect must be equally frightening for the old guard HiSo Chinese elite and the new HiSo Chinese Shin clan. Both want to exploit the Thai masses for their own greed and lust for prestige and power.

These hard working decent people deserve better than the corrupt elite <deleted> that's dominated them for too long. And anyone who thinks the Shins are different and their saviours is a prat.

Well said sir and things will change the % raise the poor has had in standard of living whether you see it or not has been huge and so will the education on the youth, there may not be millions getting degrees from the north but there are a substantial amount coming through and not a few being given a real leg up by supporting farang parents.

When these new kids on the block start going into politics and other parts of society they will make an impact and hopefully not forget where they came from. I am looking forward to seeing those in their Ivory towers come crashing down with a bump. Give it 20 years maybe but itll happen

[casualbiker]

All my relatives and the friends I've made in that area are hard working, mostly honest people, who've had little education. Not their fault - never had the opportunity. They are very clever about agriculture but politics, finance, what's really going on in the world - forget it. They take the money because they are very poor - 500 or 1k baht is a lot of money to them. They are currently more poor thanks to not being paid for rice by PTP and being fed lies.

Hopefully this will change. Most folks I know have worked their <deleted> off and scrimped and saved to get a higher and university education for their kids, These younger people spend time on social media and will form their own political opinions. Not based on bribes, lies and intimidation, or being told by others what to do. That prospect must be equally frightening for the old guard HiSo Chinese elite and the new HiSo Chinese Shin clan. Both want to exploit the Thai masses for their own greed and lust for prestige and power.

These hard working decent people deserve better than the corrupt elite <deleted> that's dominated them for too long. And anyone who thinks the Shins are different and their saviours is a prat.

Well said sir and things will change the % raise the poor has had in standard of living whether you see it or not has been huge and so will the education on the youth, there may not be millions getting degrees from the north but there are a substantial amount coming through and not a few being given a real leg up by supporting farang parents.

When these new kids on the block start going into politics and other parts of society they will make an impact and hopefully not forget where they came from. I am looking forward to seeing those in their Ivory towers come crashing down with a bump. Give it 20 years maybe but itll happen

It not even just about the money earned..

Think about it before the kids left school at (primary)P6 aged 10-11 because that was the mandatory age (free education) if the parents wanted / could afford to send the kid to secondary they had to pay.

BUT all the decent jobs require a minimum M3 certificate (lower secondary) Thankfully NOW EDUCATION is mandatory and free up to M3 hence ensuring possible employment. Hopefully these New kids on the block will remember ho made it possible.. The Democrats in their 18 months in power while battling the Red shirt demonstrations.. along with making health care free and easier

[tilac2]

She is absolutely correct: If you want to bring down the Shins and the PT government, vote them out. All but 28 seats will be up for grabs on Feb 2nd. Get off the streets, give Bangkok residents their streets back and go back to democtratic campaigning.

Yes lets have another round of red shirt villages beating and bribing their people to vote red lets have a new deposit of money from Dubai to do it with - lets have her back in power to bring a new amnesty bill to bring back the criminal so he can be president!! - she must thisnk the people of Thailand are ALL stupid!! - We are NOT!!

If you believe that, you obviously have never visited any villages/towns in the North or North East. In the past, sure, the peoples votes were for sale - 500 baht was all they ever got out of the political process. Nowadays, they'll take the money if its offered, they are poor they have no choice, but is won't affect the way they vote.They have been politicised by the 'man form Dubai'. They now vote out of conviction. I know because I have relatives who live in these villages. They are decent people, who have never had a jot out of the political process. Now they are stakeholders and YOU, along with the rest of the yellow thugs, are an arrogant little prick for saying otherwise.

Crap. All my relatives in Isaan vote who they're told to vote for by the Poo Yai Baan. He has to deliver the whole village votes to get the money for everybody. If people vote otherwise, which becomes obvious when the votes are counted, then no money for anyone. Clever little bit of peer pressure - or intimidation.

All my relatives and the friends I've made in that area are hard working, mostly honest people, who've had little education. Not their fault - never had the opportunity. They are very clever about agriculture but politics, finance, what's really going on in the world - forget it. They take the money because they are very poor - 500 or 1k baht is a lot of money to them. They are currently more poor thanks to not being paid for rice by PTP and being fed lies.

Hopefully this will change. Most folks I know have worked their <deleted> off and scrimped and saved to get a higher and university education for their kids, These younger people spend time on social media and will form their own political opinions. Not based on bribes, lies and intimidation, or being told by others what to do. That prospect must be equally frightening for the old guard HiSo Chinese elite and the new HiSo Chinese Shin clan. Both want to exploit the Thai masses for their own greed and lust for prestige and power.

These hard working decent people deserve better than the corrupt elite <deleted> that's dominated them for too long. And anyone who thinks the Shins are different and their saviours is a prat.

Then I'm a prat.

Just look at the statistics from the World Bank and other sources that show how much the NE benefitted from the Thaksin government. It's quite impressive.

[aimbc]

"I’m here because my duty as caretaker prime minister until new government is elected. Cannot say I just step down. Using vote in election is the best way."

What part of this is so difficult to you yellow supporters? Instead of some weird "reforms", led by a totally crooked politician and postponing of elections.

If the yellows had a believable and fair program for the rural Thais, they are not stupid, and would vote for the yellows but they do not. Instead the only solution for them is voting for the reds whose leaders are about as corrupted as the yellow ones. At least they do SOMETHING for them, instead of total disregard inside Bangkok bubble by the yellow leaders.

The arrogant yellows have nothing but contempt to offer. For them, the rural Thais are subhumans, not really worth of anything.

You can keep defending her. But the Rice deal, the tablet all the illegal maneuvers to overthrow the government will all come out. All the offensive things that YS administration has done will prove to the world that this government is illegitimate. If election goes on, she will be impeached or sentence for criminal acts against the state during her leadership. So it will be a waste of time. Now she is burdening the EC with their Rice Scam. Never owning up to their responsibility. This is not a trait of a true leader. Just someone thinking they are a true leader. And that is what everyone wants for the next leader.

I hope the judicial system works like it's suppose to. This is the last hope for democracy in Thailand. The Executive Branch and Legislative branch have already been tainted.

[englishoak]

All my relatives and the friends I've made in that area are hard working, mostly honest people, who've had little education. Not their fault - never had the opportunity. They are very clever about agriculture but politics, finance, what's really going on in the world - forget it. They take the money because they are very poor - 500 or 1k baht is a lot of money to them. They are currently more poor thanks to not being paid for rice by PTP and being fed lies.

Hopefully this will change. Most folks I know have worked their <deleted> off and scrimped and saved to get a higher and university education for their kids, These younger people spend time on social media and will form their own political opinions. Not based on bribes, lies and intimidation, or being told by others what to do. That prospect must be equally frightening for the old guard HiSo Chinese elite and the new HiSo Chinese Shin clan. Both want to exploit the Thai masses for their own greed and lust for prestige and power.

These hard working decent people deserve better than the corrupt elite <deleted> that's dominated them for too long. And anyone who thinks the Shins are different and their saviours is a prat.

Well said sir and things will change the % raise the poor has had in standard of living whether you see it or not has been huge and so will the education on the youth, there may not be millions getting degrees from the north but there are a substantial amount coming through and not a few being given a real leg up by supporting farang parents.

When these new kids on the block start going into politics and other parts of society they will make an impact and hopefully not forget where they came from. I am looking forward to seeing those in their Ivory towers come crashing down with a bump. Give it 20 years maybe but itll happen

It not even just about the money earned..

Think about it before the kids left school at (primary)P6 aged 10-11 because that was the mandatory age (free education) if the parents wanted / could afford to send the kid to secondary they had to pay.

BUT all the decent jobs require a minimum M3 certificate (lower secondary) Thankfully NOW EDUCATION is mandatory and free up to M3 hence ensuring possible employment. Hopefully these New kids on the block will remember ho made it possible.. The Democrats in their 18 months in power while battling the Red shirt demonstrations.. along with making health care free and easier

I don't think so, the dems wont be remembered much for anything other than a failed party. No point trying to hijack the healthcare idea everyone is more than aware of where that came from.

The change will come from those going onto higher than M3 and onto masters educated here and in other countries with far better standards they are there and coming through just takes a while to start showing up. I wish I could get my daughter into politics but she thinks they are all a bunch of self serving idiots without any policies and wont vote for any of them lol

Edited January 17, 2014 by englishoak

[casualbiker]

All my relatives and the friends I've made in that area are hard working, mostly honest people, who've had little education. Not their fault - never had the opportunity. They are very clever about agriculture but politics, finance, what's really going on in the world - forget it. They take the money because they are very poor - 500 or 1k baht is a lot of money to them. They are currently more poor thanks to not being paid for rice by PTP and being fed lies.

Hopefully this will change. Most folks I know have worked their <deleted> off and scrimped and saved to get a higher and university education for their kids, These younger people spend time on social media and will form their own political opinions. Not based on bribes, lies and intimidation, or being told by others what to do. That prospect must be equally frightening for the old guard HiSo Chinese elite and the new HiSo Chinese Shin clan. Both want to exploit the Thai masses for their own greed and lust for prestige and power.

These hard working decent people deserve better than the corrupt elite <deleted> that's dominated them for too long. And anyone who thinks the Shins are different and their saviours is a prat.

Well said sir and things will change the % raise the poor has had in standard of living whether you see it or not has been huge and so will the education on the youth, there may not be millions getting degrees from the north but there are a substantial amount coming through and not a few being given a real leg up by supporting farang parents.

When these new kids on the block start going into politics and other parts of society they will make an impact and hopefully not forget where they came from. I am looking forward to seeing those in their Ivory towers come crashing down with a bump. Give it 20 years maybe but itll happen

It not even just about the money earned..

Think about it before the kids left school at (primary)P6 aged 10-11 because that was the mandatory age (free education) if the parents wanted / could afford to send the kid to secondary they had to pay.

BUT all the decent jobs require a minimum M3 certificate (lower secondary) Thankfully NOW EDUCATION is mandatory and free up to M3 hence ensuring possible employment. Hopefully these New kids on the block will remember ho made it possible.. The Democrats in their 18 months in power while battling the Red shirt demonstrations.. along with making health care free and easier

I don't think so, the dems wont be remembered much for anything other than a failed party. No point trying to hijack the healthcare idea everyone is more than aware of where that came from.

The change will come from those going onto higher than M3 and onto masters educated here and in other countries with far better standards they are there and coming through just takes a while to start showing up. I wish I could get my daughter into politics but she thinks they are all a bunch of self serving idiots without any policies and wont vote for any of them lol

Hijack the health care!!! Enlighten me of where it came from?

The point is the Dems looked at the weakness in the system and fixed it as most governments do.. Shinawatra governments tend to just do more of the same .. hence the rice pledging debacle.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[brownbear]

There are a lot of views being bandied around in here, one thing thai visa members have that a lot of thais dont is the ability to really know exactly what is happening in Thailand, we can make up our minds without being paid or bribed to do so. Seeing this is the case how about thai visa run a poll for all members to vote to see if people with the true knowledge would vote for shinawatra or Thailand, this isnt about reds and yellows but the country as a whole, something a lot seem to have forgotten in their own biased versions of events.

How about it mods, can we run a poll to see who would get our votes, would not be for any party but for either the shinawatra clan and their policies or for the Thailand people and the removal of the current policies/corruption from politics(not the dems or suthep), certainly would silence a lot of nay sayers and some of the twisted comments, they are just getting worse.

Bump

[brownbear]

There are a lot of views being bandied around in here, one thing thai visa members have that a lot of thais dont is the ability to really know exactly what is happening in Thailand, we can make up our minds without being paid or bribed to do so. Seeing this is the case how about thai visa run a poll for all members to vote to see if people with the true knowledge would vote for shinawatra or Thailand, this isnt about reds and yellows but the country as a whole, something a lot seem to have forgotten in their own biased versions of events.

How about it mods, can we run a poll to see who would get our votes, would not be for any party but for either the shinawatra clan and their policies or for the Thailand people and the removal of the current policies/corruption from politics(not the dems or suthep), certainly would silence a lot of nay sayers and some of the twisted comments, they are just getting worse.

Bump

Sorry, that means I support the idea and would like to see this happen.

[MILT]

She is absolutely correct: If you want to bring down the Shins and the PT government, vote them out. All but 28 seats will be up for grabs on Feb 2nd. Get off the streets, give Bangkok residents their streets back and go back to democtratic campaigning.

Do you live in Bangkok? and can't get to the StarBucks and KFC?

Just kidding. Voting in Thailand is obviously not an option.

[aussieinthailand]

If PT win (which of course they will) then they should be the ones running the country, no question. The problem that's happened, the Government abused its position in a huge way. So reforms are needed before an election can come about again.

What exactly are those reforms needed? Compared to decades old nepotism under the yellow rule for the Bangkok elite, the reds have not abused their position anywhere near of their level! The same group of Bangkok elite families are still running the show more or less.

They only bitch about not being the top dog anymore and about the rural Thais having actually power to oppose them! It is so outrageous...!

Please let me know when the Yellows did rule for decades? I need to go back till 1986 to see anything that could be remotely yellow.....

Thaksin

Banharn

Chavalit

?????

Surly you jest???

Errr Who was the PM before YL? that would be Mark,,, Who voted for him to be PM??? NOT THE PEOPLE by general election, Why do you think that the red shirts get so pissed off? BECAUSE every time they get their government elected, the Dem's and Suthep dont like it so again try to throw out the government and again put their unelected man in, You'd think that so-called intelligent people would understand and win the people rather that steal government from the people not that hard really...............

[aussieinthailand]

Now you can tell me that Thailand's democracy is perfect, that there is nothing wrong with a criminal being given access to cabinet meetings, and that lies from ministers are normal policy.

You mean like this?

"Wikileaks diplomatic cables from the US embassy revealed that many members of his own party have long complained of his corrupt and unethical behavior...After several Criminal court ruling that deaths and injuries sustained by red-shirt protesters during the political unrest in April and May 2010 are the direct result of order to soldier given by Suthep Thaugsuban, the director of the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES), the Department of Special Investigation, public prosecutors and police agreed to file murder charges against him" - wiki

OK Timmy, other people lie as well. Like to have a go at criminals being given access to cabinet meetings (and at the same time making outstanding wealth gains)?

BTW I told my g/f of 8+ years that you in your opinion I regard her as sub-human. She said I treat her better than the dog, so she'll stay anyway. My teenage step-daughters thought it was very funny.

HUH???????????????????

[Mackie]

If PT win (which of course they will) then they should be the ones running the country, no question. The problem that's happened, the Government abused its position in a huge way. So reforms are needed before an election can come about again.

What exactly are those reforms needed? Compared to decades old nepotism under the yellow rule for the Bangkok elite, the reds have not abused their position anywhere near of their level! The same group of Bangkok elite families are still running the show more or less.

They only bitch about not being the top dog anymore and about the rural Thais having actually power to oppose them! It is so outrageous...!

Please let me know when the Yellows did rule for decades? I need to go back till 1986 to see anything that could be remotely yellow.....

Thaksin

Banharn

Chavalit

?????

Surly you jest???

Errr Who was the PM before YL? that would be Mark,,, Who voted for him to be PM??? NOT THE PEOPLE by general election, Why do you think that the red shirts get so pissed off? BECAUSE every time they get their government elected, the Dem's and Suthep dont like it so again try to throw out the government and again put their unelected man in, You'd think that so-called intelligent people would understand and win the people rather that steal government from the people not that hard really...............

For goodness sake, not again. Who voted for YL to be PM? Not the people in the general election. PM in Thailand is not elected by people. It is appointed by a vote in the Thai House of Representatives. Will you grasp that once and for all?

"The Prime Minister is appointed by a vote in the Thai House of Representatives by a simple majority, and is then sworn-in by the King of Thailand. The House's selection is usually based on the fact that either the prime minister is the leader of the largest political party in the lower house or the leader of the largest coalition of parties. In accordance with the constitution, the prime minister can only be appointed twice and is therefore limited to a maximum of two consecutive terms."

[JAG]

When the Thai electorate elected the current government they did so in the clear knowledge that Yingluck was the Pheu Thau candidate for Prime Minister.

In the previous election Abhisit was the equally clear Democrat candidate for Prime Minister. He was rejected by the electorate.That he ended up as Prime Minister was due to a process which could be at the very least be described as facilitated by groups outside the electoral or democratic process. He had no electoral mandate to be the Prime Minister.

I rather suspect (wearily and cynically) that the current crisis will eventually end the same way, with Abhisit installed as Prime Minister. It will possibly be the least violent result, but will be no solution, and will only kick the can down the road, for how long remains to be seen.

[Snig27]

Don't be a lying idiot. How is the Feb 2 election going to solve the political conflict? So what if you win it? People will still hate you and your brother. The only way to solve this conflict is for your government to distance itself from your idiot brother and actually try to govern this country without any interference from him. You may not be able to govern wisely because most of you are idiots but at very least, try not to come up with hare brained schemes like the rice pledging or tablets for children!

BUT, the Thai people voted for them with a big majority........Yes or No.............

Doesn't matter who governs, none of them have a clue. So where does the country go..........?

No - and you know that answer very well. They got the largest minority vote - 48% of the 75% of eligible votes cast. Not even a tiny weeny majority.

Yep.. 15million voted for PTP, 16 million voted for some other parties.

And they had the numbers to form a government. That's how the democratic process works the world over. It's not a tricky concept but it seems to deeply confuse many of the posters here. 52% of eligible votes cast went to other parties, not another single party. If those other parties had been able to jointly pull together the numbers to keep PT out of power then they would have been the government but they could not. PT was the single biggest party in the last parliament after the vote (one ironically that we know for a fact the Dems outspent them on with voter bribes to no avail) and was able to get supporting numbers from other smaller parties to become government. That gives them a mandate.

If the Dems or Suthep think they have the popular support now to reverse that, then ask the people to vote for them. We will see. That's the only way it works and the only way it can work if Thailand is to have a future.

[NHT]

Don't be a lying idiot. How is the Feb 2 election going to solve the political conflict? So what if you win it? People will still hate you and your brother. The only way to solve this conflict is for your government to distance itself from your idiot brother and actually try to govern this country without any interference from him. You may not be able to govern wisely because most of you are idiots but at very least, try not to come up with hare brained schemes like the rice pledging or tablets for children!

BUT, the Thai people voted for them with a big majority........Yes or No.............

Doesn't matter who governs, none of them have a clue. So where does the country go..........?

Deeper and deeper. I said it already. After so many generations - this turned to be, by now, a genetic issue!

[NoshowJones]

Don't be a lying idiot. How is the Feb 2 election going to solve the political conflict? So what if you win it? People will still hate you and your brother. The only way to solve this conflict is for your government to distance itself from your idiot brother and actually try to govern this country without any interference from him. You may not be able to govern wisely because most of you are idiots but at very least, try not to come up with hare brained schemes like the rice pledging or tablets for children!

BUT, the Thai people voted for them with a big majority........Yes or No.............

Doesn't matter who governs, none of them have a clue. So where does the country go..........?

You can say that about the UK government also, and probably some of other countries too.

[transam]

Don't be a lying idiot. How is the Feb 2 election going to solve the political conflict? So what if you win it? People will still hate you and your brother. The only way to solve this conflict is for your government to distance itself from your idiot brother and actually try to govern this country without any interference from him. You may not be able to govern wisely because most of you are idiots but at very least, try not to come up with hare brained schemes like the rice pledging or tablets for children!

BUT, the Thai people voted for them with a big majority........Yes or No.............

Doesn't matter who governs, none of them have a clue. So where does the country go..........?

You can say that about the UK government also, and probably some of other countries too.

At present the UK has a government the UK folk didn't vote for. A coalition. To me that is all wrong, if no majority then folk should vote again, am sure many would change their vote to their second choice and would have a clear winner.

[iTravelNow]

What part of this is so difficult to you yellow supporters? Instead of some weird "reforms", led by a totally crooked politician and postponing of elections.

If the yellows had a believable and fair program for the rural Thais, they are not stupid, and would vote for the yellows but they do not. Instead the only solution for them is voting for the reds whose leaders are about as corrupted as the yellow ones. At least they do SOMETHING for them, instead of total disregard inside Bangkok bubble by the yellow leaders.

The catchy word seems to be "reform" and in this case here "democracy". I wonder since quite a while how many farangs are talking in favor of Sutheb. He is just a useful tool for most of the Democratic Party. How does that match democracy and unelected Government? Maybe only an old Communist Party member or Dictator would agree.

BTW: wasn't Sutheb part of the Government from 2006 to 2010? Why did he not initiate reforms then? Taksin was by then already 15 years in power.

My take: Sutheb failed then he will fail today.

I do have a different view of the current events that I compare with what I have seeing and experienced in all those years I am on this planet. Just look back at all we have seeing in Europe, USA, GB during the '60s and '70S. Different cultures may differ in some aspects of what Democracy is and how it should be applied to the respective culture. I can agree with that as there is no such thing like a "democracy fits all". But one thing all forms of democracy has in common - and that is the core of the idea - is "to vote". Any form of unelected Government is NON Democratic.

Further I can't get rid of the thought that what happen right here and now is nothing then a form of frustration by the Democratic Party combined with hate. The frustrating part of and for the DP is that they have not being able to win any vote since 1992. They are so hungry to be the Government but can't reach it with "legal" means. And please don't argue now that PT is paying money for your vote. You really think the DP is not doing this? You must be blind on both eyes and having a shut mind if you would.

Sutheb has not the guts to go to the poll because he has not the guts to sit at one table with all other parties and talk. When I was a kid, I had to learn to argue and defend myself with words. I was raised and taught through life experience that discussions, debating yes even quarreling is the only true solution to any problems. That is what we call Social Competence - and Sutheb is lacking this part clearly.

I more and more have the feeling Sutheb "must" keep this demonstration going for several reasons. [1] he has past the point of no return. I often have the feeling he doesn't know what is next and threatening to kidnap a PM is a sign too. [2] the demonstrators are his protection. Would they go home he is vulnerable to be arrested without consequences to possible riots. I even heard that he could be killed (by who ever). [3] It's nothing than a show of power struggle on the back of people who honestly want a better country but get misled. But he is keeping them hostage with some disillusioned thoughts.

The arrogant yellows have nothing but contempt to offer. For them, the rural Thais are subhumans, not really worth of anything.

As long you call Norther Thai "Buffalo" you can't find a common sense. In contrast; yesterday afternoon I saw in front of Central World an Audi R8 sports car unloading goods for one of the "market boots". So it seems good business.

BTW: I went around some places and found it rather funny how easy it was to cross "intersections that seemed to be "shut down and impassable". Motorbikes and in some place even cars could pass with no hindrance.

UPDATE: I forgot to remark regarding the elections. Would the DP have spend all that money (around 10 million BT per day) into a professional campaign, they could give the PT a bloody nose if not win. Another reason to assume "democratic changes" is not the agenda

Usually I am a silent reader here but thought to give my 2c today

Edited January 18, 2014 by iTravelNow