To the farang lady owner of 2 large dogs in the forest behind 700 stadium

[rhodie]

Why did you not just ask them when you got bitten. Sheesh!!!

I did ask if the dog was 'clean' and they assured me it was. I did not ask specifically about rabies as I was not aware of the chances of it being that, and at the time discounted such concern because it obviously wasn't a soi dog.

At the time I was not even sure if it had broken skin, and besides, shouldn't it be they who warn me if they think there is a potential problem?

As another poster said they might be irresponsible owners, but I'm prepared to give them a chance.

OK. Good luck.

[Sparkles]

My advice would be to not take the chance of anyone telling you that the dog does not have rabies.

I got bitten in Bangkok by an adopted soi dog. His "owner" waffled on about he thought it was "clean".

Off to hospital and 6 visits to treat the wound, follow up injections, peace of mind.

There is a high incidence of rabies deaths throughout Asia and not only from dogs, monkeys,bats and a whole host of other carriers.

Government Hospitals would keep the necessary vaccine,won't cost a lot,but up to you.

[mike2011]

Since this problem is nothing special or unusual and as it is likely that other reader with the same concern will find this thread through google etc:

I went first to a private hospital and the vaccination would have cost me a trip to the US (east coast) and back. They use a vaccination that is "the best" and all would be perfect. I could not image that the farmworker would pay such money. So I went off to a public hospital the final bill including the vaccine was 3 % of the private place. I have no doubt that the private hospital's vaccine was great and would have produced the same results as that ordinay and cheap stuff I got. Months later I am still breathing.

These shots are a daily routine for all public hospitals anywhere in Thailand. So go to the cheap places and get the problem adequately fixed.

Perhaps our health experts here on the forum have some more precise input and could add some useful data.

There is not alternative to a vaccination. The ultimate cost (death) does not justify the savings. Plus: You're save from the next dog, cat, etc bite. One more thought: I am surprised how many expats/tourists discuss at easy the prices of a take-out from a bar and then are hesitating to pay less for a potentially life-saving simple procedure.

[Jose]

Since this problem is nothing special or unusual and as it is likely that other reader with the same concern will find this thread through google etc:

Good point.

Clueless advice such as "the dog for sure has rabies though" doesn't help anybody, so let's try and keep a level head on this matter.

Statistically it is unlikely that these dogs have rabies, but just for peace of mind alone it would be worth to get vaccinated with the usual non immuno globin based vaccine (ie, not human blood based shots).

[taotoo]

And I thought it was thai dog owners who are irresponsible. What was this farang woman thinking to have a large dog off the leash in a public area??

I wonder how she feels about having a dog like this around her children now? Be very scared-even a 'friendly' dog can turn.

The least she can do is pay for OP's rabies shots-and keep the damned dog on a leash.

So much for my prejudice-evidently dog owners in general can be irresponsible because 'their' pet is ok. Oh,really?

It's a practically deserted area. The owners may have deliberately gone there for that reason. The dogs are highly unlikely to be dangerous. The cyclist probably came past out of the blue going a whole lot faster than the 3kmh speed limit. The dogs were scared and chased him off. They snapped at his heels - they didn't savage him. Presumably the cyclist had the recommended rabies vaccine when he first came to the country, and only needs a small top up.

[Thailand]

Hope it all resolves amicably and safely.

That said, I am an advocate of dogs on leads and under control, most of the time.

However there is a foreign woman that rides her bicycle on busy roads near us with two quite large dogs on leads tagging alongside of her, has to be just about as dangerous as you could get especially here, nuts!

[haybilly]

Interesting Topic--so, it appears that from the general consensus, any normal looking dog, showing no symptoms, could very easily be either a carrier of Rabies or a case incubating waiting to become full blown--is this true?

So, the advice would seem to be--get Anti-Rabies injections unless you are shown a Rabies vaccination certificate in the event of being bitten--correct??

I wasn't aware it was so prevalent.

[Nienke]

Hope it all resolves amicably and safely.

That said, I am an advocate of dogs on leads and under control, most of the time.

However there is a foreign woman that rides her bicycle on busy roads near us with two quite large dogs on leads tagging alongside of her, has to be just about as dangerous as you could get especially here, nuts!

I'll try to keep my pit-pug on a leash next time you come. But, aaarrgghhh, she's got a total mind of her own. Not to mention how spoiled-rotten she is.

[Nienke]

Interesting Topic--so, it appears that from the general consensus, any normal looking dog, showing no symptoms, could very easily be either a carrier of Rabies or a case incubating waiting to become full blown--is this true?

So, the advice would seem to be--get Anti-Rabies injections unless you are shown a Rabies vaccination certificate in the event of being bitten--correct??

I wasn't aware it was so prevalent.

Rabies is certainly prevalent in Thailand, but not as common as some of the posters here are freaked about, and definitely not "any normal looking dog, showing no symptoms, could very easily be either a carrier of Rabies or a case incubating waiting to become full blown" .

By law dogs have to be vaccinated against Rabies annually. The latest research has shown that the duration of immunity of a Rabies vaccination, even the 1-year one, is about 3 years.

"So, the advice would seem to be--get Anti-Rabies injections unless you are shown a Rabies vaccination certificate in the event of being bitten--correct??"

That's about it, yes. But,as another poster already said, if you have had Rabies vaccination already, you don't need the whole series, just the booster shots.

[haybilly]

Interesting Topic--so, it appears that from the general consensus, any normal looking dog, showing no symptoms, could very easily be either a carrier of Rabies or a case incubating waiting to become full blown--is this true?

So, the advice would seem to be--get Anti-Rabies injections unless you are shown a Rabies vaccination certificate in the event of being bitten--correct??

I wasn't aware it was so prevalent.

Rabies is certainly prevalent in Thailand, but not as common as some of the posters here are freaked about, and definitely not "any normal looking dog, showing no symptoms, could very easily be either a carrier of Rabies or a case incubating waiting to become full blown" .

By law dogs have to be vaccinated against Rabies annually. The latest research has shown that the duration of immunity of a Rabies vaccination, even the 1-year one, is about 3 years.

"So, the advice would seem to be--get Anti-Rabies injections unless you are shown a Rabies vaccination certificate in the event of being bitten--correct??"

That's about it, yes. But,as another poster already said, if you have had Rabies vaccination already, you don't need the whole series, just the booster shots.

Thanks for that, Nienke, as you know I have a dog- loving daughter who will talk to most dogs- so I need to be aware of best practice. I need to check her inoculation record to see if/when she had a vaccination.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk

[circusman]

Since this problem is nothing special or unusual and as it is likely that other reader with the same concern will find this thread through google etc:

I went first to a private hospital and the vaccination would have cost me a trip to the US (east coast) and back. They use a vaccination that is "the best" and all would be perfect. I could not image that the farmworker would pay such money. So I went off to a public hospital the final bill including the vaccine was 3 % of the private place. I have no doubt that the private hospital's vaccine was great and would have produced the same results as that ordinay and cheap stuff I got. Months later I am still breathing.

These shots are a daily routine for all public hospitals anywhere in Thailand. So go to the cheap places and get the problem adequately fixed.

Perhaps our health experts here on the forum have some more precise input and could add some useful data.

There is not alternative to a vaccination. The ultimate cost (death) does not justify the savings. Plus: You're save from the next dog, cat, etc bite. One more thought: I am surprised how many expats/tourists discuss at easy the prices of a take-out from a bar and then are hesitating to pay less for a potentially life-saving simple procedure.

Hold on there just a minute! First you say the cheap stuff will work as well as the expensive drug, then you say the cost (death)does not justify the savings. Well, what is it to be? can't have it both way mate.

[searcher22]

Even if the dog owner has a rabies vaccination "certificate", I'm still going to go and get my shots. Period.

[harrry]

Since this problem is nothing special or unusual and as it is likely that other reader with the same concern will find this thread through google etc:

I went first to a private hospital and the vaccination would have cost me a trip to the US (east coast) and back. They use a vaccination that is "the best" and all would be perfect. I could not image that the farmworker would pay such money. So I went off to a public hospital the final bill including the vaccine was 3 % of the private place. I have no doubt that the private hospital's vaccine was great and would have produced the same results as that ordinay and cheap stuff I got. Months later I am still breathing.

These shots are a daily routine for all public hospitals anywhere in Thailand. So go to the cheap places and get the problem adequately fixed.

Perhaps our health experts here on the forum have some more precise input and could add some useful data.

There is not alternative to a vaccination. The ultimate cost (death) does not justify the savings. Plus: You're save from the next dog, cat, etc bite. One more thought: I am surprised how many expats/tourists discuss at easy the prices of a take-out from a bar and then are hesitating to pay less for a potentially life-saving simple procedure.

Hold on there just a minute! First you say the cheap stuff will work as well as the expensive drug, then you say the cost (death)does not justify the savings. Well, what is it to be? can't have it both way mate.

Cost of your life does not justify the savings you make if you do not have a vacination. THe cheap vacine is good. I think your life should be worth more than that.

[amexpat]

And I thought it was thai dog owners who are irresponsible. What was this farang woman thinking to have a large dog off the leash in a public area??

I wonder how she feels about having a dog like this around her children now? Be very scared-even a 'friendly' dog can turn.

The least she can do is pay for OP's rabies shots-and keep the damned dog on a leash.

So much for my prejudice-evidently dog owners in general can be irresponsible because 'their' pet is ok. Oh,really?

It's a practically deserted area. The owners may have deliberately gone there for that reason. The dogs are highly unlikely to be dangerous. The cyclist probably came past out of the blue going a whole lot faster than the 3kmh speed limit. The dogs were scared and chased him off. They snapped at his heels - they didn't savage him. Presumably the cyclist had the recommended rabies vaccine when he first came to the country, and only needs a small top up.

Yeah, that's the ticket. The cyclist is to blame for getting bitten and should have planned for it. Poor doggies.

[Thailand]

Hope it all resolves amicably and safely.

That said, I am an advocate of dogs on leads and under control, most of the time.

However there is a foreign woman that rides her bicycle on busy roads near us with two quite large dogs on leads tagging alongside of her, has to be just about as dangerous as you could get especially here, nuts!

I'll try to keep my pit-pug on a leash next time you come. But, aaarrgghhh, she's got a total mind of her own. Not to mention how spoiled-rotten she is.

[mike2011]

Thanks Harry, you got my point.

What I am taking from this thread is the important info on vaccinations that are made from human blood. Now I need to check what I got.

We get some good info put together here. We need also be clear about the two different discussions going on. 1) responsibility of the owner 2) health impact and its consequences

I am focusing on No. 2.

I somewhat fail to understand those posts that talk about probabilities when rabbies are a 100% a killer. Yes the law, the looks of the dog, the overall infection rate etc.

Let's see how the health system assess those probabilities in front of a breathing human: I was asked where the cat was. Then it was recorded that it had disappeared but notewas taken of the area in town (not CM). Now the result: No animal available - speak the poor kitten's brain was not open for inspection - means = you need a vaccination. This was public health service and not a money grabbing private health company running a hospital.

I most strongly urge anyone to discuss such matter with the RIGHT persons and these are nobody else than the local health/hospital staff. Many places are set up for these routine shots and have all the info they might need on local conditions. I am afraid however that the rule is no animal = vaccination and it makes perfect sense. Take no chances with your life no matter what others tell you.

As said above: I am uncertain about the sort of my vaccine and this qualifies my earlier remarks in this regard. Consequence: People should ask about it before the shot and probably ask about alternatives.

[harrry]

Thanks Harry, you got my point.

What I am taking from this thread is the important info on vaccinations that are made from human blood. Now I need to check what I got.

We get some good info put together here. We need also be clear about the two different discussions going on. 1) responsibility of the owner 2) health impact and its consequences

I am focusing on No. 2.

I somewhat fail to understand those posts that talk about probabilities when rabbies are a 100% a killer. Yes the law, the looks of the dog, the overall infection rate etc.

Let's see how the health system assess those probabilities in front of a breathing human: I was asked where the cat was. Then it was recorded that it had disappeared but notewas taken of the area in town (not CM). Now the result: No animal available - speak the poor kitten's brain was not open for inspection - means = you need a vaccination. This was public health service and not a money grabbing private health company running a hospital.

I most strongly urge anyone to discuss such matter with the RIGHT persons and these are nobody else than the local health/hospital staff. Many places are set up for these routine shots and have all the info they might need on local conditions. I am afraid however that the rule is no animal = vaccination and it makes perfect sense. Take no chances with your life no matter what others tell you.

As said above: I am uncertain about the sort of my vaccine and this qualifies my earlier remarks in this regard. Consequence: People should ask about it before the shot and probably ask about alternatives.

The duration of immunity afforded to humans by a two injection vaccination course was found to be between two to three years.^[12][13][14] Following administration of a booster dose (recommended at one year), one study found 97% of immuno-competent individuals demonstrate protective levels of neutralizing antibodies at 10 years.^[15]

^{from Wikipaedia}

^{Looks as if once you get your course of vaccinations you can tease the poor dogs and cats all you like for a few years at least.}

[taotoo]

And I thought it was thai dog owners who are irresponsible. What was this farang woman thinking to have a large dog off the leash in a public area??

I wonder how she feels about having a dog like this around her children now? Be very scared-even a 'friendly' dog can turn.

The least she can do is pay for OP's rabies shots-and keep the damned dog on a leash.

So much for my prejudice-evidently dog owners in general can be irresponsible because 'their' pet is ok. Oh,really?

It's a practically deserted area. The owners may have deliberately gone there for that reason. The dogs are highly unlikely to be dangerous. The cyclist probably came past out of the blue going a whole lot faster than the 3kmh speed limit. The dogs were scared and chased him off. They snapped at his heels - they didn't savage him. Presumably the cyclist had the recommended rabies vaccine when he first came to the country, and only needs a small top up.

Yeah, that's the ticket. The cyclist is to blame for getting bitten and should have planned for it. Poor doggies.

Where did I apportion blame or suggest that anybody 'should' have done anything?

[beau thai]

And I thought it was thai dog owners who are irresponsible. What was this farang woman thinking to have a large dog off the leash in a public area??

I wonder how she feels about having a dog like this around her children now? Be very scared-even a 'friendly' dog can turn.

The least she can do is pay for OP's rabies shots-and keep the damned dog on a leash.

So much for my prejudice-evidently dog owners in general can be irresponsible because 'their' pet is ok. Oh,really?

It's a practically deserted area. The owners may have deliberately gone there for that reason. The dogs are highly unlikely to be dangerous. The cyclist probably came past out of the blue going a whole lot faster than the 3kmh speed limit. The dogs were scared and chased him off. They snapped at his heels - they didn't savage him. Presumably the cyclist had the recommended rabies vaccine when he first came to the country, and only needs a small top up.

Yeah, that's the ticket. The cyclist is to blame for getting bitten and should have planned for it. Poor doggies.

Where did I apportion blame or suggest that anybody 'should' have done anything?

You are playing with words.

You 'presume' the cylcist got rabies shots before he came to Thailand-why??

You presume he 'probably' came out of the blue going fast' (faster than 3kph? )

You presume the dogs are 'highly unlikely to be dangerous'; - he posted here because he was bitten!

You presume the 'dogs were scared and chased him off'. He was bitten!

Maybe I can join you in presuming? I presume you are a dog owner who takes the dog out off the leash.

Of course, my presumptions maybe wrong as well.

What matters is he was bitten by a possibly rabid large dog, allowed to run in a public are off the lead. Period

[eyecatcher]

The Brits on here will certainly be more paranoid about rabies as I think we are the only rabies free country in the world.

We have this perception of every dog in every country potentially biting us and after foaming at the mouth for 5 days we die.

I imagine to other people that rabies isn't such a big issue, perhaps the vaccination is carried out at school age as normal, like we have the TB jabs.

Would citizens from the Americas or Europe have the same fear if they were bitten in their own country.

[hml367]

The Brits on here will certainly be more paranoid about rabies as I think we are the only rabies free country in the world.

We have this perception of every dog in every country potentially biting us and after foaming at the mouth for 5 days we die.

I imagine to other people that rabies isn't such a big issue, perhaps the vaccination is carried out at school age as normal, like we have the TB jabs.

Would citizens from the Americas or Europe have the same fear if they were bitten in their own country.

Do an internet search for "dog rabies tag". Then look at the results which refer to somewhere in the USA. Most of the results are probably for the USA anyway.

I seem to remember in the places I lived there a dog must wear a tag that it is up to date with rabies vaccines. They also had a tag that they had been licensed or registered.

I don't think you can compare the USA with Thailand. I have never been to Europe, so I don't know what they may have.

I am not defending one side or the other. Just pointing out some information to your question.

Edited January 19, 2014 by hml367

[taotoo]

You are playing with words.

You 'presume' the cylcist got rabies shots before he came to Thailand-why??

You presume he 'probably' came out of the blue going fast' (faster than 3kph? )

You presume the dogs are 'highly unlikely to be dangerous'; - he posted here because he was bitten!

You presume the 'dogs were scared and chased him off'. He was bitten!

Maybe I can join you in presuming? I presume you are a dog owner who takes the dog out off the leash.

Of course, my presumptions maybe wrong as well.

What matters is he was bitten by a possibly rabid large dog, allowed to run in a public are off the lead. Period

Where did I apportion blame or suggest that anybody 'should' have done anything?

[mike2011]

I did a google search and this came up on top

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/thailand

Rabies

Although rabies can be found in dogs, bats, and other mammals in Thailand, it is not a major risk to most travelers. CDC recommends this vaccine only for these groups:

• Travelers involved in outdoor and other activities in remote areas that put them at risk for animal bites (such as adventure travel and caving).
• People who will be working with or around animals (such as veterinarians, wildlife professionals, and researchers).
• People who are taking long trips or moving to remote areas in Thailand
• Children, because they tend to play with animals, might not report bites, and are more likely to have animal bites on their head and neck.

The info tends to cover the OP's case. But then again such general info should be matched with input from local health experts, speak the docs and the hospital. The risk might be MUCH higher locally than in other regions.

I dont understand why people would gamble with their lives or give opinions/"advice" (??) that might endager somebody. Reminds me a little of debates about infection risks and condoms. Really irresponsible or plain stupid.

Harry - thanks for the info. I think that is what I got injected. Now I was more worried about contracting HIV through the vaccine in case it is based on human blood products.

I think this thread is very worthwhile. I recall descending into a sort panic one I realized the danger. I should have had informed myself a long time ago with peace of mind and then be prepared when the mishap struck me. So this thread might do the job for many who are not concerned now but could be in the future - I earnestly hope not though.

[harrry]

I did a google search and this came up on top

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/thailand

Rabies

Although rabies can be found in dogs, bats, and other mammals in Thailand, it is not a major risk to most travelers. CDC recommends this vaccine only for these groups:

• Travelers involved in outdoor and other activities in remote areas that put them at risk for animal bites (such as adventure travel and caving).
• People who will be working with or around animals (such as veterinarians, wildlife professionals, and researchers).
• People who are taking long trips or moving to remote areas in Thailand
• Children, because they tend to play with animals, might not report bites, and are more likely to have animal bites on their head and neck.

The info tends to cover the OP's case. But then again such general info should be matched with input from local health experts, speak the docs and the hospital. The risk might be MUCH higher locally than in other regions.

I dont understand why people would gamble with their lives or give opinions/"advice" (??) that might endager somebody. Reminds me a little of debates about infection risks and condoms. Really irresponsible or plain stupid.

Harry - thanks for the info. I think that is what I got injected. Now I was more worried about contracting HIV through the vaccine in case it is based on human blood products.

I think this thread is very worthwhile. I recall descending into a sort panic one I realized the danger. I should have had informed myself a long time ago with peace of mind and then be prepared when the mishap struck me. So this thread might do the job for many who are not concerned now but could be in the future - I earnestly hope not though.

You might like to post the cost of the treatment and whether public or private.

Edited January 20, 2014 by harrry

[harrry]

I did a google search and this came up on top

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/destinations/traveler/none/thailand

Rabies

Although rabies can be found in dogs, bats, and other mammals in Thailand, it is not a major risk to most travelers. CDC recommends this vaccine only for these groups:

• Travelers involved in outdoor and other activities in remote areas that put them at risk for animal bites (such as adventure travel and caving).
• People who will be working with or around animals (such as veterinarians, wildlife professionals, and researchers).
• People who are taking long trips or moving to remote areas in Thailand
• Children, because they tend to play with animals, might not report bites, and are more likely to have animal bites on their head and neck.

The info tends to cover the OP's case. But then again such general info should be matched with input from local health experts, speak the docs and the hospital. The risk might be MUCH higher locally than in other regions.

I dont understand why people would gamble with their lives or give opinions/"advice" (??) that might endager somebody. Reminds me a little of debates about infection risks and condoms. Really irresponsible or plain stupid.

Harry - thanks for the info. I think that is what I got injected. Now I was more worried about contracting HIV through the vaccine in case it is based on human blood products.

I think this thread is very worthwhile. I recall descending into a sort panic one I realized the danger. I should have had informed myself a long time ago with peace of mind and then be prepared when the mishap struck me. So this thread might do the job for many who are not concerned now but could be in the future - I earnestly hope not though.

I think they are talking about that it is not necescary to have a dose just because you are going on a trip. I think you will find they still recomend you get treated if bitten.

[mike2011]

I paid next to nothing for the injection and about 1300 baht for the vaccine, so about 1340 baht in total. Public place in the sticks.

I bought the vaccine myself at a pharmacy with a prescription. In private hospitals their own pharmacies will be very expensive so walk out, cross the street and do your own shopping.

I trust 50 US $ at most should do the job in CM.

[harrry]

I paid next to nothing for the injection and about 1300 baht for the vaccine, so about 1340 baht in total. Public place in the sticks.

I bought the vaccine myself at a pharmacy with a prescription. In private hospitals their own pharmacies will be very expensive so walk out, cross the street and do your own shopping.

I trust 50 US $ at most should do the job in CM.

Thanks. I am sure people will be interested to know we are not talking about a fortune. Information like this helps. It is one thing to say cheap or expensive but without stating a guide amount that does not really help.

Hardly an amount to worry about suing the ladies though it is definitely worth asking them. My guess is that if Nieke knows them they care enough about their dogs to at least be reasonable. The OP has made it clear he was not out for revenge just knowledge.

[Showbags]

My daughter is currently going through the series of injections.

First visit with doc and injection, 1st of 5 and only yht e single injection, not 2 like I read earlier...was at an international hospital and cost 1400b.

They then said follow up injections cost only for the needle, no doc fee.

2nd was 690b.

3rd came the problem, as always these caniving inter hospitals demanded we had to see doc and pay the fee each time, told them to shuv it where it belongs and we went to the local thai hospital...420b.

4th, we happened to be away from home, asked hospital beforehand if we could have it done there, inter in Bkk, they said yes, no doc required....got there and they changed their mind, doc required so told them also where to stick it, went elsewhere and 440b.

Last one this weekend will be same, circa 400b

[donniereadit]

Rabies is some nasty shit. I would ge the shots just to be safe.

Thanks for posting the location. If I'm in the area I will clean up this mess.