Protesters party, and a familiar dread rises: Thai editorial

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Protesters party, and a familiar dread rises
The Nation

We can only hope that the carnival atmosphere continues, but we all know it is never going to last

BANGKOK: -- Concerts. Walking streets. Vendors selling "cool" protest accessories like iPhone cases featuring cartoons of Suthep Thaugsuban and colourful whistles in the shape of Thailand. Face-painting services. Famous artists on the stages.

The anti-government campaign transformed into a carnival-like spectacle over the past few days.

Yesterday's incidents answered the question of how long that would last. Moreover, the election is likely to take place, and even if it's postponed, chances are that it won't be postponed long enough to be totally safe from political hostility. One thing is almost certain: On February 2, the festivities we witnessed at the Pathumwan, Rajprasong and Asoke intersections and other places should evaporate.

Whether the election should be held or not is another matter, one that will continue to be hotly debated regardless of the final decision. The evolution of the anti-government campaign is interesting. If your sympathies lie with the protesters, the last few days have brought a welcome phenomenon - civil disobedience that is not boring. Critics, on the other hand, cannot be impressed by the blocking of traffic and "intimidation" of state workers forced to evacuate their offices.

"Oh, yeah. Oooh, ahhh, that's how it always starts," says a character in "Jurassic Park: The Lost World". "Then later there's running and screaming." That applies to Thailand's political protests, too. The 1992 bloodbath was a tragic end to a rally of largely middle-class protesters equipped with the first generation of mobile phones. The Rajprasong shootings and rioting in 2010 were preceded by the beautiful sight of demonstrators dressed in red flooding a bustling business area of the capital a few weeks earlier.

In Thailand, political stand-offs like this one often end ugly. We have already seen bad signs, and big ones came yesterday. To add to the pessimism, this is not the first time that "civil disobedience" has been mooted. Protesters call it a justified expression of disapproval over corrupt governance. The government and its supporters call it public disturbance, lawbreaking and sedition. We have yet to see an example of the government and its opponents agreeing on what is civil disobedience and what is not.

Suthep and his supporters have been marching round Bangkok, "visiting" government offices and setting up stages at key intersections of the capital. The protesters have been branded by the pro-government camp as elite shoppers in disguise, who have sparked a jump in profits for Starbucks and fast-food restaurants and eagerness among brand-name sellers to have the "marchers" come their way.

The truth is, if the protests do continue this way, we should be thankful. We can only hope that the carnival goes on forever, but we all know it is never going to last. The stakes on both sides are getting higher and higher, and it has always been a matter of who blinks first. A weeks-long siege at Government House ended in a coup in 2006. In 2008 there was the crackdown on yellow shirts, and later the seizure of Suvarnabhumi Airport. We can romanticise our political fights all we like, but they never end romantically.

Ironically, the most colourful protest in Thai history has as its backdrop the deepest political divide the country has ever experienced. If the crisis ends well, with a "few" casualties, real history will have been made.

Politics in Thailand, however, has always delivered the outcome its people feared the most.


-- The Nation 2014-01-18

[chooka]

Free live entertainment, face painting, food and retailers offering 90% discounts, it carnival time. Throw the kids on the motorcycle Somchia we're off to Bangkok to get some of those freebies.

[smutcakes]

My gf went to Ratchaprasong yesterday and said that the people on stage were reasoning with the protesters why not to go home, and it would only take 2 more days until they won.

I cannot quite get my head around what goes through these protesters minds, (any protesters for that matter). They go to protest at something as they obviously feel amazingly strongly about it. They must realize that what they want is extremely hard to achieve. Yet a few days in and they are frustrated that they have not won, and they want to pack their bags and head off.

On another note,apparently if you want some free money, go pick up one of the containers of free rice being served at the protests. That is where the protest money is being distributed. My gf on hearing this in Big C, looked around to see if she could confirm it first hand, purely for research purposes, rather than monetary gain i may add.

[Thailand]

My gf went to Ratchaprasong yesterday and said that the people on stage were reasoning with the protesters why not to go home, and it would only take 2 more days until they won.

I cannot quite get my head around what goes through these protesters minds, (any protesters for that matter). They go to protest at something as they obviously feel amazingly strongly about it. They must realize that what they want is extremely hard to achieve. Yet a few days in and they are frustrated that they have not won, and they want to pack their bags and head off.

On another note,apparently if you want some free money, go pick up one of the containers of free rice being served at the protests. That is where the protest money is being distributed. My gf on hearing this in Big C, looked around to see if she could confirm it first hand, purely for research purposes, rather than monetary gain i may add.

Paid to protest? Hard to believe, but I love the way they are doing it if that is correct.

I think in Chinese "rice" relates to wealth so very appropriate.

[EricBerg]

"If the crisis ends well, with a "few" casualties, real history will have been made."

It's not about making history. It's about saving the country from financial disaster and chaos.

[bigbamboo]

As long as the MiB or similar are kept away everything will be OK. If someone on either side decides it's necessary to up the ante then things could get out of hand.

[Spartakos]

Been in thailand through yellow, red and antigoverment protests. The latest is the most peaceful and sincere I have seen. Red was the worst one, seemed like a gang of drunk thugs. Sadly lives have been lost for 1 man's dictatorial ambitions.

[Costas2008]

They celebrate and enjoy themselves because they know that better days are coming for Thailand.

Keep it up Thai people......it won't be long before we see the back of this criminal Siwanatra clan.

[angsta]

Numbers are down, they left (no) Democracy Monument as nobody was showing up anymore, There are maybe 100 people on Rama VIII

bridge.

"I know it's over, but it never really began"

[jollyman]

Its going to flop You don't win revolutions but dancing, poncing about eating noddles and somtum

[Hawk]

Numbers are down, they left (no) Democracy Monument as nobody was showing up anymore, There are maybe 100 people on Rama VIII

bridge.

"I know it's over, but it never really began"

The party's over

It's time to call it a day

They've burst your pretty balloon

And taken the moon away

It's time to wind up the masquerade

Just make your mind up the piper must be paid

The party's over

The candles flicker and dim

You danced and dreamed through the night

It seemed to be right just being with him

Now you must wake up, all dreams must end

Take off your makeup, the party's over

It's all over, my friend

It's all over, my friend

Edited January 18, 2014 by Hawk

[jollyman]

#Some where over the rainbow#

[jollyman]

They celebrate and enjoy themselves because they know that better days are coming for Thailand.

Keep it up Thai people......it won't be long before we see the back of this criminal Siwanatra clan.

Well if the Thai people Get Sethup and his mob, you can say BYE BYE Thailand, FARANGS WILL BE OUT MATE

[Gone]

Nothing is over until the fat lady sings.

[Hawk]

Numbers are down, they left (no) Democracy Monument as nobody was showing up anymore, There are maybe 100 people on Rama VIII

bridge.

"I know it's over, but it never really began"

My makeup is dry and it clags on my chin

I'm drowning my sorrows in whisky and gin

The lion tamer's whip doesn't crack anymore

The lions they won't fight and the tigers won't roar

So let's all drink to the death of a clown

Won't someone help me to break up this crown

Let's all drink to the death of a clown

Let's all drink to the death of a clown

The old fortune teller lies dead on the floor

Nobody needs fortunes told anymore

The trainer of insects is crouched on his knees

And frantically looking for runaway fleas

Let's all drink to the death of a clown

So won't someone help me to break up this crown

Let's all drink to the death of a clown!

Goodbye Mr.Suthep!

[animatic]

Been in thailand through yellow, red and antigoverment protests. The latest is the most peaceful and sincere I have seen. Red was the worst one, seemed like a gang of drunk thugs. Sadly lives have been lost for 1 man's dictatorial ambitions.

This is a more than decade long quest for dictatorial control of Thailand and it's purse strings. Sadly it is not over yet. Obsession turned to megalomania in an amoral mind, with money to burn toward the goal of becoming the biggest fish in the pond, and leaving a historical legacy, is a dangerous combination. Especially if that mind goes unstable under pressure. The pressure is building yet again.... Which way will that mind crack as the stakes get ever greater?

[jollyman]

"We'll always have Paris, Here's looking at you kid"

[MikeENZ]

Not sure where people are getting the idea that the Rama 8 bridge only has 100 pax on it. I'm living right next to it and its full of protestors, their tents, and thier annoyingly loud PA that plays horrible karekoke at all hours...

[chooka]

They celebrate and enjoy themselves because they know that better days are coming for Thailand.

Keep it up Thai people......it won't be long before we see the back of this criminal Siwanatra clan.

Well if the Thai people Get Sethup and his mob, you can say BYE BYE Thailand, FARANGS WILL BE OUT MATE

Suthep has already made it known that he has a dislike of farangs. Still you have farangs on here who love and admire Suthep, it is a one way love affair.

[chooka]

Nothing is over until the fat lady sings.

I guess you haven't heard, Suthep kidnapped her and has her gagged in his basement.

[Costas2008]

Jollyman: Well if the Thai people Get Sethup and his mob, you can say BYE BYE Thailand, FARANGS WILL BE OUT MATE

chooka: Suthep has already made it known that he has a dislike of farangs. Still you have farangs on here who love and admire Suthep, it is a one way love affair.

As I said before......I think you got this information from your local Som Tam lady.

But even if it is true......I am willing to sacrifice my little self for the good of this country.

[noitom]

Thailand has been run by folks like Thaksin, Suthep, and Sondhi for decades before any one of them were born. The army has staged 18 or 19 coups since 1932. Isn't that enough proof that no Thai group or government is capable of staying power and effective leadership without corruption? This fight is about passing around the skim money. When back room establishment characters start wanting to redistribute the corrupt skim, they stage a coup. The army takes care of whichever group seems to have more clout/money/influence over the masses.

Thailand's military was funded by the US in the late forties, fifties and sixties to help defeat communism. The Thai army as we know it didn't happen by magic. It happened with the assistance of the global military/industrial complex. First during the Cold War and then Vietnam. The modern Thai army is a creature of US backing. Foreign investment in Thailand was facilitated by the perception that the country was "secure" by its US funded investment in Thai military force. Do you think that the Japanese and others would have invested heavily in Thailand if they didn't have a US backed military to secure its business interests as their industrial engine grew after WWII? Of course not.

The initial big Thailand money came from siphoning off military , public and private sector aid largely by the US and foreign governments and firms. The sex trade facilitating the Vietnam Era R & R and its reciprocal drug trade in the early sixties, when the French left Vietnam, funded the early evolution of Thailand from a third world nation to a "developing" nation. The military engine of Thailand was in powerful and escalated control ever since the Japanese surrender in WWII. By the way, the 71st anniversary of Thailand's declaration of war against the US and the UK and its alliance with Japan is coming up next week on January 25.

The Bangkok real estate boom in the eighties and the building of "beautiful Bangkok" was facilitated by money laundering, corrupted skim, and drug networking. The basic infrastructure and building was secured with cash laundering through drug and sex trade money and of course by foreign investment and aid skim. Do you really think that the kind money that built Bangkok in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and particularly the 80s came from the rice fields? Thailand and particularly Bangkok is the direct result of drugs, sex, and cheap labor, corrupted skim from foreign military aid/support and private investment skim and Mr. Thai 20%s backed by the Thai military.

The Thai press consistently ignores Thailand's real history, and its historical facts as described by numerous Thai and foreign scholars. The censoring out of factual information and historical events that long preceded Mr. Thaksin, Mr. Suthep or the faded out Mr. Sondhi. The press seems to make haphazard references to the 2008 airport closing, 2010 killings, and the 2006 coup. The press writes, more often than not, as if Thai political conflicts began in 2006 with Mr. Thaksin. This is clearly shading and obscuring the truth and censoring the Thai people from true Thai political conflicts. The Thai press is part of the Thai problem and not part of its solution.

[noitom]

Nothing is over until the fat lady sings.

And "it ain't over til it's over." - Yogi Berra

[animatic]

Thailand has been run by folks like Thaksin, Suthep, and Sondhi for decades before any one of them were born. The army has staged 18 or 19 coups since 1932. Isn't that enough proof that no Thai group or government is capable of staying power and effective leadership without corruption? This fight is about passing around the skim money. When back room establishment characters start wanting to redistribute the corrupt skim, they stage a coup. The army takes care of whichever group seems to have more clout/money/influence over the masses.

Thailand's military was funded by the US in the late forties, fifties and sixties to help defeat communism. The Thai army as we know it didn't happen by magic. It happened with the assistance of the global military/industrial complex. First during the Cold War and then Vietnam. The modern Thai army is a creature of US backing. Foreign investment in Thailand was facilitated by the perception that the country was "secure" by its US funded investment in Thai military force. Do you think that the Japanese and others would have invested heavily in Thailand if they didn't have a US backed military to secure its business interests as their industrial engine grew after WWII? Of course not.

The initial big Thailand money came from siphoning off military , public and private sector aid largely by the US and foreign governments and firms. The sex trade facilitating the Vietnam Era R & R and its reciprocal drug trade in the early sixties, when the French left Vietnam, funded the early evolution of Thailand from a third world nation to a "developing" nation. The military engine of Thailand was in powerful and escalated control ever since the Japanese surrender in WWII. By the way, the 71st anniversary of Thailand's declaration of war against the US and the UK and its alliance with Japan is coming up next week on January 25.

The Bangkok real estate boom in the eighties and the building of "beautiful Bangkok" was facilitated by money laundering, corrupted skim, and drug networking. The basic infrastructure and building was secured with cash laundering through drug and sex trade money and of course by foreign investment and aid skim. Do you really think that the kind money that built Bangkok in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and particularly the 80s came from the rice fields? Thailand and particularly Bangkok is the direct result of drugs, sex, and cheap labor, corrupted skim from foreign military aid/support and private investment skim and Mr. Thai 20%s backed by the Thai military.

The Thai press consistently ignores Thailand's real history, and its historical facts as described by numerous Thai and foreign scholars. The censoring out of factual information and historical events that long preceded Mr. Thaksin, Mr. Suthep or the faded out Mr. Sondhi. The press seems to make haphazard references to the 2008 airport closing, 2010 killings, and the 2006 coup. The press writes, more often than not, as if Thai political conflicts began in 2006 with Mr. Thaksin. This is clearly shading and obscuring the truth and censoring the Thai people from true Thai political conflicts. The Thai press is part of the Thai problem and not part of its solution.

Though the great difference is the Thaksin equation, he didn't go to ground for 10 years as most all past PM's who fell did, later returning as elder statesmen and eventually political players again. No, Thaksin refused to go to ground, and has since stirred up a gargantuan mess for the nation. His actions have been quite different than the traditional ones, and how he has harnessed a multiple-counter-opposing philosophy political machine, with violence prone enforcer wing, to do it.

Of course the Kow Tow post-feudal mindset has infused Thailand's culture and thus it's political sub-culture since 'Thailand day one' and before as Siam. Erasing that morbid influence will only happen after multi-generational exposure to alternatives in world cultures. That process has started thanks to the internet generation, but it is not going to come to fruition in this political generation. That said, the process is started and these rallies, even if lead by charismatic, mid-generational, post-feudal over-lords, was not possible without harnessing the calmer, but angrier, elements of the internet- generation and the more worldly and informed middle class, connected enough to know things have gone badly off the rails yet again.

I've said it before, and it goes counter to the perception that is being laid out for you to believe, this is not about Suthep, beyond his ability to rouse the people around him, it is the fact they have been aroused from their ennui and are acting on long suppressed feelings about their countries direction.

There are many cries that Suthep is a proto-fascist in waiting for power,

but that clearly ignores that the country is presently controlled by a fascist cabal lead by a industrialist.

Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach

1 Shinwatra clan, the other chinese-decent overlords and their international business interests.

2 Democracy is a tool, but in practice is bought out and suppressed, other than the facade for PR purposes

3 We know who the entire parliamentary majority listens to, and jumps when he speaks, and it is not the PM

4 So anyone want to say the Red Leaders are not demagogues?

Will all corruption stop if this government goes? No of course not. Will it be dialed back? Yes to a some extent, but how much is never clear to see. And it is also about how you define corruption. But will it return from it's current road to pure fascism, and malignant form of uber-corruption it is on now? Well with a Shin clan return to power, it seems quite unlikely to improve, and more than likely to worsen considerably, particularly if it is entrenched at the time the figure head passes from the scene. Well, we may find out in our lifetimes, but for the moment we must see if the battle for general perceptions is won or lost in the street, and the forums that leach perceptions to around the world. And wonder if the pressure becomes so great that Thaksin has to get out of the kitchen and stop stirring the pot.

Edited January 18, 2014 by animatic

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Not sure where people are getting the idea that the Rama 8 bridge only has 100 pax on it. I'm living right next to it and its full of protestors, their tents, and thier annoyingly loud PA that plays horrible karekoke at all hours...

It seems the government/Thaksin propaganda brigade is in full display here.

Some member was posting the same thing about the Asoke intersection -- 100 protesters.

And, like you, I live close by there. And it's still a pretty busy/active place for protesters, especially in the evenings with thousands.

I've been posting daily photos here to show it. And the photos don't lie

Everybody's entitled to their own opinions. But people at least ought to have some respect for the difference between clear facts and politically motivated spin.

[noitom]

It's a nice effort to cling to the Thaksin is the root cause of the social upheaval argument. That Thaksin didn't just "go to ground" as did his predecessors when the "calling came" is really the historical problem of Thai corruption and feeding off the opportunistic system, if you're in the right tier of society that is. That's exactly the problem. Thaksin is actually the initiator of trying to channel some of that skim back to the underclass which disenfranchised the establishment and woke them up that he is not planning to just "go to ground, but instead is actually trying to embrace them in some way. Maybe his goal was self serving, but at least he was identifying them and found his own way to make them feel part of the system as is not the case before him.

That there is an "implicit" understanding that they "go to ground" and leave the trough when they have had more than sufficient take and skim is exactly what is at the root of the festering problem. They are at the stage of fighting over who is at the trough and who says enough is enough. Thaksin, like democracy as you put it, is but a tool of the establishment that stirs the force of movement to get them to "go to ground." You are right in stating that this will not happen in this generation of politics, but it is the press that needs to evolve in representing the truth that educates subsequent generations. Distorting the facts and censoring the history is not the right path if you want constructive change for the benefit of the underclass. Part of their frustration is the sense of participation in the truth.

It is not a reasonable and positive evolution of Thai politics for future generations to have the people "believe" that a Suthep or Sondhi style of politics backed by a military threat and the appointment of a "people's council" designated by the fox in the chicken coup is a "democratic way." Nor is the appointment of another establishment guy who agrees to go to ground when the others say he's through. The press should make this clear and stand by the idea of one man one vote and legally elected officials and fair and equal representation and application of law. The press should place values on these characteristics and not pander to emotions and censorship by the establishment.

Knowledge is power and the majority Thai underclass shouldn't be denied the factual information and reality of Thai politics and the Thai game as it has been and is played. Whether they gain any power will remain to be seen, but they should be armed with a proper history. With real history and facts, better education and health care, the Thai underclass will continue to get stronger. This concern is really the root of the problem. The Thai establishment eventually has to concede the truth and embrace the underclass although they look like they will be kicking and screaming a lot longer.

[Sceptict11]

noitom

So there is no disenfranchised "underclass" living in your democratic country of origin ?

If such a group does in fact exist in this "wonderful" democratic country what is being done to provide people with real history and facts, better education and health care, thus enabling the "underclass" to get stronger. ?

[Gone]

Long posts are boring to read.

[Costas2008]

Gone, on 18 Jan 2014 - 14:25, said:

Long posts are boring to read.

Not if they are well written and express a well informed opinion and facts.

May be it will help some of us, not as gifted as the writers, to open our eyes.

[Scamper]

The sad truth about protests around the world is that they all come with a cost. That is certainly true here, as men and women are now walking into bombs. One needs to exercise caution in judging those who are putting their lives on the line, and instead judge those who would indiscriminately drop bombs on the innocent Thai men and women on the street below. It must be remembered that these scales are not balanced. The administration has the full weight and power of the government behind it. They also have it appears the support of terrorist mini-armies who are prepared to take matters into their own hands. Most of the protesters have a whistle around their necks, and a conviction that free expression is a right in an open and free society.