Police Question

[Norman]

Rumour has it Thailand has some corruption. I recently had my rented motorbike stolen and the owner wants full replacement (40k). First of all, I don't have 40k available. Secondly, the rental is not due until June 3rd but he rings me every day and I've taken to avoiding his calls at this point. I'm scared of Thai style justice and I'll get a beating if I don't come up with the cash soon. The owner knows where I live but doesn't have my passport or a copy. He has filed a police report (I have a copy) so I know (?) it's not just a case of him stealing the bike and waiting until I go home to re-rent it.

I've gone to the tourist police as I feel scared and they really weren't helpful nor English speaking. I'm an expat with limited knowledge.

I offered him 20k on the day of the theft and he balked. I've paid the rent until June 3, so he shouldn't be calling me pestering me anyway. He won't provide me with the green book all owners receive. I want to know the age of the bike so I can estimate its value. I've heard each year the bike ages, I should remove 10k or so.

I know the simple solution is to pay the bill pronto but your advice would be soothing nonetheless. I'm terrified you'll read about me on the news as the next farang beaten to a pulp or given assisted suicide. Thanks.

Edited May 20, 2006 by Norman

[GuestHouse]

Get your hands on 50K, ( a bit extra for 'fees') and pay up now before this gets out of hand.

[AlexLah]

Next time when you fill in the form write down another hotel adress.

Common practice in Thailand to go to your hotel and steal the bike and then charge you 40 K for it.

(they have spare keys)

Alex

[Tywais]

Since the bike is not new you might be able to negotiate a settlement. Tell him you have x amount that you can pay and see what he says.

[jdinasia]

hmmm let me guess ... you signed a rental contract ... the contract states the price of replacement ... and the bike is gone ...

Go pay ... the fact that the rental payment has not expired is not the issue here as you do not have possession of the bike

[Norman]

Good point but I've paid the rental in full so he's not losing any money until June 3.

hmmm let me guess ... you signed a rental contract ... the contract states the price of replacement ... and the bike is gone ...

Go pay ... the fact that the rental payment has not expired is not the issue here as you do not have possession of the bike

[jdinasia]

doesn't matter ... if you are not in posession of the vehicle then you have to fulfill the terms of the contract ...

you MAY be able to negotiate a little on the price ... but the contract would be the major issue here.

Edited May 20, 2006 by jdinasia

[Gumballl]

I would just move away, perhaps even out of the country. I doubt that the dishonoring a contract is a criminal offense (even in LOS). Therefore, if you fail to pay the 40K (or whatever amount agreed upon), I doubt there is much recourse for the motorsi's owner, other than to beat you to a pulp... hence the reason to move away.

P.S. Stake out the owner; see where he goes after the shop closes. Perhaps the motorbike is at his residence. Take it back if it is. You have the key right???.... or did you leave it in the ignition of the motorbike?

Edited May 20, 2006 by Gumballl

[Prakanong2005]

Negotiate on the price if at all possible but other than that pay and put it down as an expensive lesson.

My first ever bike hire on Samui over 10 years ago I had a problem with - the bike would not start after 2 days. The owners wanted a silly amount to fix and engine problem that would have happened whoever had possession of it at the time.

A Surat Thani Thai who drank in some of the bar's I did took it back for me and got my passport back without me paying anything.

Since then I have only hired bikes 2 or 3 times in total - every time on a girls Thai ID card and not my passport - never any problems except last time deposit not fully returned but that was by the by.

[Norman]

It was a Mio. 15k on the clock. I know the plate # and serial # from our contract.

I pay 3k/month. I offered 20k to see his reaction on the advice of my lawyer. If he said yes I could do it today. He did not offer me insurance. Says it's not possible on rentals. The steering was locked and there was a thick chain around the back tire.

My lawyer has said that if he were to sue me (western style), it's a civil matter which could take 2 years. The Thai lawyer went on to say he would likely NOT beat my ass as all fingers would point to him if it were to happen. The publicity alone wouldn't be desireable for him as he's quite established.

My lawyer's thinking is that he didn't nick it himself or he wouldn't have made a police report and possibly get caught down the road.

Maybe I'm just getting panicky but I only have 20k to offer him. He didn't like that offer.

I'm just getting convinced you will read about me all beaten and bloody in a few weeks......

[Heng]

You can determine the age of the bike from the Dept. of Land Transport. I'd imagine you can ask them to look it up for you with a copy of the police report + license tag number. You can also get the approximate age through them or merely through locals who own motorcycles (in the SAME province) if you let them know what the license tag number is as you can usually at least get as accurate as the year from what the letters are.

[Phil Conners]

Mio's are fairly new, going second hand price for a 1-2 year old is around 30k (28-34k depending on age, state and seller) so no wonder he is not happy with 20k.

Of course he will try to get as much out of you as he can, but most people will accept something over nothing. You say you have 20k cash, do you have a way to get 10k more? What's your timeframe for staying in Thailand? You could try showing him the money (20k you have) and offering 10k more over the next (days/weeks/?).

Edited May 20, 2006 by madsere

[ray23]

I would say this you can be a very nice 125 here for 40K. Have you thought about buying a rpelacement bike same make model same year? be a lot less then 40K unless it was a brand new bike, never heard of a Mio who is the manufactor.

Personally I doubt that he wants this, sounds to me like he wants profit big time.

Your the one who has to have peace of mind, if 40K will do that for you and you don't have it work out a payment schedule. Something is his hand and promise is better then what he has now.

[Phil Conners]

Mio is by Yamaha. I don't know the price of Mio from new but the similar Yamaha Nouvo is about 55k from new.

[solo siam]

I'd be worried if I was an expat in a foreign country with less than $500 to my name. Also I'm surprised that you have a lawyer, or hired a lawyer if thats all the money you have access to.

Pay the guy the money, Its not just about the exact value, he has to go through all the rigmarole of reporting it stolen, buying a new bike, registering it etc...

Unless you consider your life worth less than $1,000. There might only be a remote tiny chance that you get beaten up or killed, but funnier things have happened if said Thai has a bad day, a few drinks etc...

[johng]

I've heard that the Mio is one of the most popular ( to get stolen ) bikes at the moment.

[ColPyat]

I'm terrified you'll read about me on the news as the next farang beaten to a pulp or given assisted suicide. Thanks.

If i were you i would go with the same honesty you show here in this thread to the owner, if possible with your lawyer, or another Thai friend, offer him the 20 K, and negotiate a monthly amount.

Don't be too scared - people do understad reason here as long as it has not escalated into a conflict of face.

I would not run, and i would definately no go on some private investigation as some here have suggested, neither would i repeat any of those suggestions such as the owner having stolen the bike himself. This would escalate the thing beyond solution.

Just be honest as you are here and things will work out.

[ThaiPauly]

IMHO ..you should pay up and chalk it down to experiece.. surely you can get a family member to WU the money.?

Do NOT follow him...... don't put yourself in harm's way whatever he says. YOU are the Guest here.. you have been had.. its just another scam there are so many I am sorry to say.

Good Luck

TP

[jdinasia]

Scam? it is likely NOT a scam ... the guy signed a contract ... the terms are easy to understand and very clear!

He may be able to negotiate it down a bit ... but he's gotta pay

[Norman]

I've talked it to death (pardon the pun) with my Thai lawyer who himself knows street thugs for when the street info. is required. He assures me it's more common for people to get beaten in muggings, being drunk and rowdy, or girl revenge if someone mistreats or doesn't pay them.

The shop owner does NOT want bad publicity since he's worked so hard to buy a fleet of bikes and open a business (likely on borrowed cash). Since I've already spoken with the Tourist Police and there is a police report with both our names in it, if I suddenly wound up in the emergency room, it would likely fall back on him. Maybe not directly, but it wouldn't be good for him.

Thanks for all the replies and I'll continue watching this space for other perspectives.

It comes down to me fleeing the city, moving residences, or paying up.

[techie]

For the worry this is putting you through and the cost that a lawyer must be charging there really is only one option...

If you simply can't prove the owner has scamed you then you will have to pay..

Do yourself a favour, ditch the solicitor who keeps referring to street beatings and be honest with the guy, if you cant pay all at once make an agreement over terms...and hope he goes for it..

It may not seem right but as it is now reported as a police matter then you can gaurentee it will require you paying up..

Do as other have said, put it down to experience...

[Heng]

.....if I suddenly wound up in the emergency room, it would likely fall back on him. Maybe not directly, but it wouldn't be good for him.

Likely true... UNLESS he's someone of any minor importance or if whoever shows up to collect your "just got beaten down" statement owes him or any of his extended family a favor.

[daleyboy]

I have to agree with other comments. How much have you already paid your lawyer? Bet its not far off 40k. Sounds to me like it isnt a scam, otherwise he wouldnt have got the police involved. No insurance was taken, which is your responsibility, so why should the owner of the bike lose out?

If someone borrowed something off you and then had it stolen, would youi just say forget it? Especially if its part of your livelyhood(sp). Of course you wouldnt. Speak to the owner and offer to buy an eqivilent(sp) bike, of equal value.

IMHO best just to pay up and walk away, if you can afford a lwayer then you can afford to pay the owner the money you owe him. Thats right YOU owe him this money, if the bike was stolen its your fault, not his, and it is you that should lose out, not him.

I know it sounds harsh, but i am looking at it from the owners point of view, and i know i would be mighty pissed off if i was in the same situation, and had some farang offering me half of what the bike is probably worth

[Dragonman]

I have to agree with other comments. How much have you already paid your lawyer? Bet its not far off 40k. Sounds to me like it isnt a scam, otherwise he wouldnt have got the police involved. No insurance was taken, which is your responsibility, so why should the owner of the bike lose out?

If someone borrowed something off you and then had it stolen, would youi just say forget it? Especially if its part of your livelyhood(sp). Of course you wouldnt. Speak to the owner and offer to buy an eqivilent(sp) bike, of equal value.

IMHO best just to pay up and walk away, if you can afford a lwayer then you can afford to pay the owner the money you owe him. Thats right YOU owe him this money, if the bike was stolen its your fault, not his, and it is you that should lose out, not him.

I know it sounds harsh, but i am looking at it from the owners point of view, and i know i would be mighty pissed off if i was in the same situation, and had some farang offering me half of what the bike is probably worth

I totally agree!

I don't really understand why you have a lawyer! Under the laws of most countries, not only Thailand, you are responsible. It is up to you to ensure you have adequate insurance.

For 40,000 baht, lawyers, private investigators, etc. when you are at fault. Pay up by installments.

[bulmercke]

This might be of interest: http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_09_05_49.htm

Possible a few unscrupulous bike rental companies are in on this, as well!

My advice - return to the shop - take a Thai with you to do all the talking - put twenty thousand on the table - and promise to pay the remainder by instalments. If they don't accept this - you really don't have much option, but to pay up and get these scum off your bank!

[ray23]

You know this really is very simple, you try to shaft the guy and has your butt kicked you deserve it. They just differently here then they do in the states.

If you plan on staying in this country then you need to learn how do things, you made a bad business decesion, pay up in the best manner you can and move on. Don't make the same mistake again. You are just paying for another semester in Water Buffalo Univsersity, just like the rest of us.

It is really starting to sound like you are the one trying to do the scamming. Trying to get out of what you owe. If you didn't know about the rental insurance all you had to do was look the topic up in the forum and you have known the safest way to this. If you just did not to get the insurance and save the 20 Baht a day, hey your choice.

Sure there are scams here but that doesn't mean every business is invloved in them.

You have yourself said it is not a scam, you are trying to avoid a loss and so is the business owner.

What your doing now is what ifing yourself to death, it's business go cut a business deal, if you have the money cash payup and move on. If you really don't have the money, then make an agreement that you can do and pay the full amount. You would be in reality borrowing money from the guy, pay a reasonable interest.

Or pack up your bags and move on, just keep glancing over your shoulder if you stay in Thailand. How you live your life is up to you

[chuang]

1. Get rid of your lawyer, it's just a small sum involved, you are wasting on your lawyer's fees.

2. Negotiate on an agreed amount and pay up, mind you, you have signed a contract.

3. Don't pay and make yourselves disappear, never to come back to the same city again.

[KhunMarco]

Thinking of leaving the city/country for what? 800 euros/$1000

Norman I'd seriously reconsider what the heck I'm doing in Thailand if I were you.

You don't have money for paying the bike but you have money for a lawyer?

GIVE ME A BREAK! BS!

[Heng]

Just pay it already may be the best advice. It's not like you're not going to be paying millions here in the long run anyway for much much sillier reasons.

[Lucifer]

Norman......is this a wind up?

Cough up you tight fisted git......and then get out of the country, you're a waste of space.