Rice farmers threaten 'final showdown' if demands not met

[Sceptict11]

Personally I never agreed with the rice subsidy from the start - just like the ec farm subsidies, the us farm subsidies, or the aus purchasing schemes (wheat board, wool board) in the past.

But if the farmers are pissed off - ask the EC which has denied payment by the caretaker government under fears it would bias the election - despite the fact the payment commitments were made *before* the parliament was dissolved.

The EC denied the government the ability to borrow more money, they never stipulated that the farmers could not be paid. The reason they could not be paid was because the government doesn't have the money due to financial mismanagement that occurred well before parliament was dissolved.

Is that a polite way of speaking about rampant corruption ?

[Skywalker69]

The EC is blocking everything from bank payments to farmers, rice sales to China, loans to pay farmers, etc.

The EC clearly has a hidden agenda but most farmers are not stupid and will show it in the next election.

For sure you can oresent proof? I think not.

[ratcatcher]

Personally I never agreed with the rice subsidy from the start - just like the ec farm subsidies, the us farm subsidies, or the aus purchasing schemes (wheat board, wool board) in the past.

But if the farmers are pissed off - ask the EC which has denied payment by the caretaker government under fears it would bias the election - despite the fact the payment commitments were made *before* the parliament was dissolved.

The EC denied the government the ability to borrow more money, they never stipulated that the farmers could not be paid. The reason they could not be paid was because the government doesn't have the money due to financial mismanagement that occurred well before parliament was dissolved.

Is that a polite way of speaking about rampant corruption ?

"Is that a polite way of speaking about rampant corruption ?"

"Financial mismanagement" - "Rampant Corruption" - Spot on.

PTP - Pass The Piggybank

[Gulfsailor]

Latest gossip is that caretaker government will be using GSB (government savings bank) cash to quickly pay farmers. I just checked their year statement. At the end of 2012 they had a little over 30 billion in cash with a total equity of 130 billion. So, there is a big risk of a bank run if ptp intends to take more than 20 billion out, as at that point depositors money would start to being used, of which there is not that much available, as it already nearly all had been lent out.

Going out with a bang?...

[Sceptict11]

Latest gossip is that caretaker government will be using GSB (government savings bank) cash to quickly pay farmers. I just checked their year statement. At the end of 2012 they had a little over 30 billion in cash with a total equity of 130 billion. So, there is a big risk of a bank run if ptp intends to take more than 20 billion out, as at that point depositors money would start to being used, of which there is not that much available, as it already nearly all had been lent out.

Going out with a bang?...

Latest news from my wife ---------the protesters intend closing down the GSB to prevent the alleged attempt at abusing the banks funds.

[tingtongteesood]

The EC is blocking everything from bank payments to farmers, rice sales to China, loans to pay farmers, etc.

The EC clearly has a hidden agenda but most farmers are not stupid and will show it in the next election.

OR maybe they are doing their job to the letter of the law as the government keeps threatening them and they don't want to make a wrong step and give any lawful reason for complaint...

[wprime]

The EC is blocking everything from bank payments to farmers, rice sales to China, loans to pay farmers, etc.

The EC clearly has a hidden agenda but most farmers are not stupid and will show it in the next election.

OR maybe they are doing their job to the letter of the law as the government keeps threatening them and they don't want to make a wrong step and give any lawful reason for complaint...

Indeed, it's amazing how anything that steps in the way of the Thaksin regime has a "hidden agenda".

[oldthaihand99]

The problem with that is there is no money with which to pay the farmers.

Some 32.6 billion is to be available for payments this week, according to a well-known Bangkok English language newspaper report today.

[Robby nz]

Some 32.6 billion is to be available for payments this week, according to a well-known Bangkok English language newspaper report today.

They say they have raised another 32.6 billion from selling bonds, (don't say who to) which they say is part of the 75 billion they had permission to sell last November but could only sell 37 billion.

Rate is 3.53% and the money is supposed to be paid to the BAAC on Tuesday.

Independent observers say this sale may have broken the law.

As well :

Deputy Finance Minister Thanusak Lek-uthai is due to meet with the board of Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives today (Monday) to discuss the government’s request for the bank to advance its customers’ deposits for use to repay rice farmers.

What they want to do is use the farmers own money which has been deposited in their accounts to pay the farmers.

[Jonmarleesco]

The EC is blocking everything from bank payments to farmers, rice sales to China, loans to pay farmers, etc.

The EC clearly has a hidden agenda but most farmers are not stupid and will show it in the next election.

The EC CLEARLY has a hidden agenda ... added to which it is blocking likely non-existent rice sales to China. Interesting thoughts. Would you care to expand on them?

Edited January 20, 2014 by Jonmarleesco

[scorecard]

Some 32.6 billion is to be available for payments this week, according to a well-known Bangkok English language newspaper report today.

They say they have raised another 32.6 billion from selling bonds, (don't say who to) which they say is part of the 75 billion they had permission to sell last November but could only sell 37 billion.

Rate is 3.53% and the money is supposed to be paid to the BAAC on Tuesday.

Independent observers say this sale may have broken the law.

As well :

Deputy Finance Minister Thanusak Lek-uthai is due to meet with the board of Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives today (Monday) to discuss the government’s request for the bank to advance its customers’ deposits for use to repay rice farmers.

What they want to do is use the farmers own money which has been deposited in their accounts to pay the farmers.

A further example of the total lack of professionalism of this govt. Kittirat and others in this govt know full well that using general deposits in totally unthinkable and would be reason for serious charges.

This could even cause a run on the bank, which is very undesirable and would probably lead to the international credit rating agencies (moodies / standard & poors etc.) giving Thailand a serious downgrade, also a strong negative to investor confidence.

The truth is of course that the puppet / the puppet master / kittirat etc., don't care about any of that.

Their actions focus on one thing - immoral corruption etc, to keep the 'get very rich very quickly club' alive as long as possible.

[scorecard]

Some 32.6 billion is to be available for payments this week, according to a well-known Bangkok English language newspaper report today.

They say they have raised another 32.6 billion from selling bonds, (don't say who to) which they say is part of the 75 billion they had permission to sell last November but could only sell 37 billion.

Rate is 3.53% and the money is supposed to be paid to the BAAC on Tuesday.

Independent observers say this sale may have broken the law.

As well :

Deputy Finance Minister Thanusak Lek-uthai is due to meet with the board of Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives today (Monday) to discuss the government’s request for the bank to advance its customers’ deposits for use to repay rice farmers.

What they want to do is use the farmers own money which has been deposited in their accounts to pay the farmers.

A further example of the total lack of professionalism and morals of this govt. Kittirat and others in this govt know full well that using general deposits in totally unthinkable and would be reason for serious charges.

This could even cause a run on the bank, which is very undesirable and would probably lead to the international credit rating agencies (moodies / standard & poors etc.) giving Thailand a serious downgrade, also a strong negative to investor confidence.

The truth is of course that the puppet / the puppet master / kittirat etc., don't care about any of that.

Their actions focus on one thing - immoral corruption etc, to keep the 'get very rich very quickly club' alive as long as possible.

[Valentine]

Some 32.6 billion is to be available for payments this week, according to a well-known Bangkok English language newspaper report today.

They say they have raised another 32.6 billion from selling bonds, (don't say who to) which they say is part of the 75 billion they had permission to sell last November but could only sell 37 billion.

Rate is 3.53% and the money is supposed to be paid to the BAAC on Tuesday.

Independent observers say this sale may have broken the law.

As well :

Deputy Finance Minister Thanusak Lek-uthai is due to meet with the board of Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives today (Monday) to discuss the government’s request for the bank to advance its customers’ deposits for use to repay rice farmers.

What they want to do is use the farmers own money which has been deposited in their accounts to pay the farmers.

I know one farmer who did get paid for his rice this month & promptly took all his money out of BAAC. Not saying he is typical but there could be others like him & could be many more lining up soon to withdraw due to the current rumours.

[oldthaihand99]

Some 32.6 billion is to be available for payments this week, according to a well-known Bangkok English language newspaper report today.

They say they have raised another 32.6 billion from selling bonds, (don't say who to) which they say is part of the 75 billion they had permission to sell last November but could only sell 37 billion.

Rate is 3.53% and the money is supposed to be paid to the BAAC on Tuesday.

Independent observers say this sale may have broken the law.

As well :

Deputy Finance Minister Thanusak Lek-uthai is due to meet with the board of Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives today (Monday) to discuss the government’s request for the bank to advance its customers’ deposits for use to repay rice farmers.

What they want to do is use the farmers own money which has been deposited in their accounts to pay the farmers.

The 32.6 billion & the cash "advance" would be 2 separate items.

It has been speculated or guesed that the former could possibly be violating election law. Maybe. Maybe not. I can guess how the ruling on that would go. LOL.

Re customer deposits in banks. Do they normally just sit uselessly in a customers account, making no money for the bank, or losing money due to the interest they must pay to customers. Or do banks themselves take those deposits & invest them?

If the government recieved a CC like "cash advance" from a bank based on paper of a fraction of those deposits, i assume it would be legally guaranteed with the trillions the government has at its disposal.

Edited January 20, 2014 by oldthaihand99

[robblok]

Some 32.6 billion is to be available for payments this week, according to a well-known Bangkok English language newspaper report today.

They say they have raised another 32.6 billion from selling bonds, (don't say who to) which they say is part of the 75 billion they had permission to sell last November but could only sell 37 billion.

Rate is 3.53% and the money is supposed to be paid to the BAAC on Tuesday.

Independent observers say this sale may have broken the law.

As well :

Deputy Finance Minister Thanusak Lek-uthai is due to meet with the board of Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives today (Monday) to discuss the government’s request for the bank to advance its customers’ deposits for use to repay rice farmers.

What they want to do is use the farmers own money which has been deposited in their accounts to pay the farmers.

The 32.6 billion & the cash "advance" would be 2 separate items.

It has been speculated or guesed that the former could possibly be violating election law. Maybe. Maybe not. I can guess how the ruling on that would go. LOL.

Re customer deposits in banks. Do they normally just sit uselessly in a customers account, making no money for the bank, or losing money due to the interest they must pay to customers. Or do banks themselves take those deposits & invest them?

If the government recieved a CC like "cash advance" from a bank based on paper of a fraction of those deposits, i assume it would be legally guaranteed with the trillions the government has at its disposal.

There is a certain ratio they cant pass.. that is what they are talking about.

[Gulfsailor]

Some 32.6 billion is to be available for payments this week, according to a well-known Bangkok English language newspaper report today.

They say they have raised another 32.6 billion from selling bonds, (don't say who to) which they say is part of the 75 billion they had permission to sell last November but could only sell 37 billion.

Rate is 3.53% and the money is supposed to be paid to the BAAC on Tuesday.

Independent observers say this sale may have broken the law.

As well :

Deputy Finance Minister Thanusak Lek-uthai is due to meet with the board of Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives today (Monday) to discuss the governments request for the bank to advance its customers deposits for use to repay rice farmers.

What they want to do is use the farmers own money which has been deposited in their accounts to pay the farmers.

The 32.6 billion & the cash "advance" would be 2 separate items.

It has been speculated or guesed that the former could possibly be violating election law. Maybe. Maybe not. I can guess how the ruling on that would go. LOL.

Re customer deposits in banks. Do they normally just sit uselessly in a customers account, making no money for the bank, or losing money due to the interest they must pay to customers. Or do banks themselves take those deposits & invest them?

If the government recieved a CC like "cash advance" from a bank based on paper of a fraction of those deposits, i assume it would be legally guaranteed with the trillions the government has at its disposal.

There is a certain ratio they cant pass.. that is what they are talking about.

Exactly. The leverage ratio for commercial banks is in accordance to Basel3. Set at 8.5% total and 4.5% Tier1. I don't know the rules set for fully government controlled banks/institutions.

Krung Thai (majority owned by government) for example now has a ratio of around 10% Tier1 So under BOT rules they have room to loan out more. Based on deposits of 1.85 trillion, that would allow for additional lending of around 100 billion. I wouldn't want to be shareholder of the bank though in such case. It will look really bad if a part owner is borrowing large amounts of money from the company. The government should just sell its shares in Krung Thai and pocket the 130 billion baht this will get them. Shitty thing is that they will need parliamentary approval for this, and right now there is no parliament.

[JRSoul]

The 32.6 billion & the cash "advance" would be 2 separate items.

It has been speculated or guesed that the former could possibly be violating election law. Maybe. Maybe not. I can guess how the ruling on that would go. LOL.

Re customer deposits in banks. Do they normally just sit uselessly in a customers account, making no money for the bank, or losing money due to the interest they must pay to customers. Or do banks themselves take those deposits & invest them?

If the government recieved a CC like "cash advance" from a bank based on paper of a fraction of those deposits, i assume it would be legally guaranteed with the trillions the government has at its disposal.

".....the trillions the government has at its disposal." So why do they need the bank depositor's money?

[Robby nz]

Latest from the other paper is that the 32.58 billion will go to refinancing BAAC debt incurred from rice pledging NOT to pay the farmers.

[oldthaihand99]

The 32.6 billion & the cash "advance" would be 2 separate items.

It has been speculated or guesed that the former could possibly be violating election law. Maybe. Maybe not. I can guess how the ruling on that would go. LOL.

Re customer deposits in banks. Do they normally just sit uselessly in a customers account, making no money for the bank, or losing money due to the interest they must pay to customers. Or do banks themselves take those deposits & invest them?

If the government recieved a CC like "cash advance" from a bank based on paper of a fraction of those deposits, i assume it would be legally guaranteed with the trillions the government has at its disposal.

".....the trillions the government has at its disposal." So why do they need the bank depositor's money?

Red tape, bureaucratic BS, silly laws & the anti democratic minority backed by the old elite are purposely stopping the government from paying the rice farmers.

[SICHONSTEVE]

The 32.6 billion & the cash "advance" would be 2 separate items.

It has been speculated or guesed that the former could possibly be violating election law. Maybe. Maybe not. I can guess how the ruling on that would go. LOL.

Re customer deposits in banks. Do they normally just sit uselessly in a customers account, making no money for the bank, or losing money due to the interest they must pay to customers. Or do banks themselves take those deposits & invest them?

If the government recieved a CC like "cash advance" from a bank based on paper of a fraction of those deposits, i assume it would be legally guaranteed with the trillions the government has at its disposal.

".....the trillions the government has at its disposal." So why do they need the bank depositor's money?

Red tape, bureaucratic BS, silly laws & the anti democratic minority backed by the old elite are purposely stopping the government from paying the rice farmers.

Complete claptrap!!!

I'm sure that he (Suthep) would if he could - the real reason is that the government doesn't know what it is doing and has cocked up on a daily basis in literally everything they do. Did Suthep force them to implement stupid scams? did he make the government run out of money? did he makes their supporters turn against the government? No, no, no!!!!

Just why is that tape that stops them doing things called 'red' tape I wonder - the mind boggles!!

By silly laws do you mean the sacrosanct laws of parliament? yes they did attempt to ignore them and paid the price for that little beauty. Do you not realise that this constitutes undemocratic practices and removes all of it's electoral legitimacy??

Silly question, of course you didn't!!

Please tell me, what has this government done for Thailand that has been of benefit to the nation?

You can keep your answer brief - you will have no choice on the matter really.

[charmonman]

The rice farmers will be the final straw that could well break this donkey's back.

Is that a quote from Suthep?

There are how many million rice farmers in Thailand, and a few hundred are out protesting?

Most Thai farmers are not stupid. They know what's going on, who's preventing them from being paid. Just wait until February 2nd and then we'll see what the true majority of Thais think. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you're wrong, we'll see. In the meantime, Suthep will do everything in his power to prevent people from voting on February 2nd.

Nothing to do with Suthep. The rice farmers shpu;d have been paid out in October, but the rice scheme is bankrupt. Another Thaksin Thinks .... but Nothing to do with any election, the Government's out of money.

Read the news topics. The EC has blocked the government from accessing the funds.

So Jack, I guess you think the farmers who are protesting and blaming the government for this fiasco are stupid then?

I agree this whole thing is a tragedy for the farmers who cannot afford to go unpaid, but the Shinawatra government has mismanaged this whole scheme right from the start and it looks like many of their former supporters are deciding they have not been well served by this lot.

[JRSoul]

The 32.6 billion & the cash "advance" would be 2 separate items.

It has been speculated or guesed that the former could possibly be violating election law. Maybe. Maybe not. I can guess how the ruling on that would go. LOL.

Re customer deposits in banks. Do they normally just sit uselessly in a customers account, making no money for the bank, or losing money due to the interest they must pay to customers. Or do banks themselves take those deposits & invest them?

If the government recieved a CC like "cash advance" from a bank based on paper of a fraction of those deposits, i assume it would be legally guaranteed with the trillions the government has at its disposal.

".....the trillions the government has at its disposal." So why do they need the bank depositor's money?

Red tape, bureaucratic BS, silly laws & the anti democratic minority backed by the old elite are purposely stopping the government from paying the rice farmers.

Red tape - The BAAC is quite happy and ready to pay the farmers after the government deposits money into their account.

Bureaucratic BS - I can only assume this means being constrained by the laws of the land.

Silly laws - anything new, or just laws that you don't like? Seems when there is a watchdog in place this government is restricted to acting legally.

the anti democratic minority backed by the old elite - how do they stop the government making a bank deposit, or transferring some of their trillions to the right account?

Trying to defend the indefensible with bluster and obfuscation just doesn't work.

[Robby nz]

Latest from the other paper is that the EC says they have no authority to approve a loan and if the Govt want to go ahead with it then they must take sole responsibility.

Now there is a word Kittaratt will have to look up.

Kittaratt says they will go ahead anyway and get a loan.

Where he thinks he might get it from is something else again.