Popular Post Publicus Posted January 19, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2014 Reacting to criticism that foreign media do not understand "Thai-ness," Jonathan Head from the BBC said simple short reports could not explain the complexity of the Thai conflict. "It's not about not understanding Thai-ness. It's because we have to explain a complex issue in very little time and space," he said. I very much doubt Jonathan Head could explain the complexity of the conflict even when given an hour on BBC. It's not how much air time Head or any broadcast journalist is given, or how much space in the news hole (in between already positioned display ads) a print journalist is given by the advertising department, but how much prep time the journalist is given for the report and how many viable contacts s/he can identify, reach and gain the trust of that determines the quality of a story, plus research support from the editors. It's tough enough in a journalist's own culture and country to have the benefit of these things and especially to gain the trust and confidence of the people you interview, report on, spend time with. If the subjects think you're a jerk or have a motive, you're cooked. Then there's the situation in which a professional journalist such as Head steps into a foreign country and culture in Asia, SE Asia, Thailand in particular. It's not Italy or Israel Head has stepped into, or even Egypt. It's Amazing Thailand. What was your first year like in Thailand? Your second year? Your fifth year was better but were you really in to the swing of it? You may think and believe you know something here in your fifth year, but by your tenth year you know with certainty that back then you knew beans. Dan Rivers looks a lot more comfortable standing in his overcoat outside Westminster breathing out steam than he ever looked standing in an open collar shirt with Bangkok burning behind him. More journalists today have specialized degrees in some field to include foreign cultures, countries, languages, regions of the world. Increasing numbers of journalists have a Bachelor in a "content" field such as political science or economics, then earn a Master degree in journalism. However, if your Master's thesis was on the issue of free press and fair trail in the 1954 conviction and 1966 retrial acquittal of the Sam Sheppard murder case, or press coverage of Custer's Last Stand (a long lost classmate), then you're assigned to Thailand, you're basically screwed. It's a tough demanding job that requires skill, finesse, personality, professionalism, insight, being a quick study and having a lot of qualities along those lines. Journalists do tend to become a herd sitting around in the same lounge every night, but then how many of them here go to the Army owned and operated stations to get the "real" story? How come they don't parrot the Nation Group in their reports? It's because they see anti-democracy demonstrators carrying on at the Democracy Monument. It's because they get out to talk to real people and get the story straight as best they can under the pressure of deadlines and the chaos of a wild and unmanageable unfamiliar world of weird events, people, conflict, to include prejudices and a background of social and political history they have to learn on the spot and in outline form, The best journalists let the principals they interview tell their compelling story and then go ahead to sort everyone and their stories into a cohesive and intriguing whole. Which is why Ms Pedrosa came up with a goose egg when she interviewed the tabula rasa Yingluck. Don't knock it till you've tried it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomash Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 These issues are not just during the conflict but all the time such as using the excuse of Thai-ness to cover up BS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbamboo Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) Interesting journalistic observation on how cautious the PM was when interviewed. I suppose it's only to be expected. Yingluck has much to be guarded about. Edited January 19, 2014 by bigbamboo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMarlow Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 A comic from The Nation http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/nationphoto/show-new.php?pageid=0&id=30&pid=16732 Sometimes, images can say more than words You're so right, no-one has suggested what that cartoon you posted is suggesting before now. That throws a whole different light on the matter. Thanks for enlightening us all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atsiii Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 What is the point of voting when the voters are bought as per statements made from many in both the north and the south. Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app In the USA voters are bought by 3-second sound bytes and misinformation programs disseminated by corporations and political PAC's. It's really not much different except that the money in Thailand goes directly to the voters, and the money in the USA goes to marketing, advertising and campaign contributions. Both systems result in voters ignorant of the topics and details who blindly cast votes per the influence of money. In both cases the voters are bought, paid for and leveraged for their stupidity. Ultimately, what is really frightening is just how easy it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inutil Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Interesting journalistic observation on how cautious the PM was when interviewed. I suppose it's only to be expected. Yingluck has much to be guarded about. Dear bigbamboo: Every politician on the planet is guarded and cautious in interviews with the press. The shock is not that Yingluck was cautious, but that the journalist interviewing her was remotely surprised by this. Did the reporter think they could just pop to the PM of a country and get a no-holds barred scoop or something? Reporters have clearly become bunny eyed morons with no credibility to investigate and corroborate the information the receive. Either that, oooooorrr... international media doesnt really care enough about the situation in thailand to devote more than scant resources, intelligence and the occasional minute or two report here and there (just enough to keep up the idea its an international serious news operation) on the subject. Maybe theyll file it somewhere between justin bieber egging a house and "Romanian benefit scroungers" flooding the country. Pick your poison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KimoMax Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) Some Foreign Press just try to "Sensationalize" this story and repete the same mistakes of trying to Portray the Conflict in a "Sensationalist Way" by continuousely saying it is a Cast or Class War between the Poor supported by Thaksin and the Elites, Royalists, and Middle Class of Bangkok. In the OP Article it says Journalists are trying to explain a Complex situation in a "Timely Manner". But the Foreign Press do know the real behind the scenes story and who is in this conflict and why. Agreed tat all the information can not be said due to some sensorship and touchy areas. To make the "General Class War" Comments continuously is not reporting a true scenario of the Parites in this Conflict. The Foreign Press have tried to Simplify the News too much and never get beyond thier Over Simplifications to give a True Picture. The conflict is not a class war, but a conflict on ideals from all walks of life of all Thai People on both sides. Not just Rich or Poor. They are on both sides. Edited January 19, 2014 by KimoMax 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinnock Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I reckon one issue making it difficult for the press is that nobody really understands the complex wheels within wheels and double deals of Thai politics - including most the politician involved in it - so getting clear answers in interviews is just not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomash Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 The difficulty that foreign correspondents are having with Thailand is precisely what Jonathan Head says - that the complexity of the situation here cannot possibly be condensed into a short time-frame - let alone 30 seconds. In this article, a journalist describes the difficulty in " getting through " to Yingluck in interview, while being flanked by a sea of male aides desperate to know if she is struck by how pretty the prime minister is - comes right to the heart of two key, related issues. As Yingluck is a proxy PM - a puppet, so to speak - her appearance, her prettiness - occupies a much larger dynamic of the package than would otherwise be the case. If she can't speak, that makes it even more important. If she doesn't understand what's going on, an even greater role than that still. Her English has improved - to her credit - though not to a considerable degree. But she is further handicapped by generalities, avoiding searching questions, and generally says nothing that a four year old girl could not be coached to mimic in a day. Journalists are hardened creatures. They know a smoke-screen when they see one. And yet - Yingluck poses special challenges in today's journalistic world. She's truly impossible to interview, as anyone who has seen them can attest, with the journalists clearly trying to enter what seems to be an unfathomable space. She's like George W. Bush without the intellect. Yingluck and George Dubya Bush have the same English. George W. Bush and intellect in the same sentence?? Actually I just think he was a better actor because he was just playing himself! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Aaaah, thainess. The excuse for a million sins, lies and incompetencies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Some Foreign Press just try to "Sensationalize" this story and repete the same mistakes of trying to Portray the Conflict in a "Sensationalist Way" by continuousely saying it is a Cast or Class War between the Poor supported by Thaksin and the Elites, Royalists, and Middle Class of Bangkok. In the OP Article it says Journalists are trying to explain a Complex situation in a "Timely Manner". But the Foreign Press do know the real behind the scenes story and who is in this conflict and why. Agreed tat all the information can not be said due to some sensorship and touchy areas. To make the "General Class War" Comments continuously is not reporting a true scenario of the Parites in this Conflict. The Foreign Press have tried to Simplify the News too much and never get beyond thier Over Simplifications to give a True Picture. The conflict is not a class war, but a conflict on ideals from all walks of life of all Thai People on both sides. Not just Rich or Poor. They are on both sides. It does go beyond a simple class war. What the journalists have to learn to explain is there is only one political and moral principle in Thai politics and this is money. Thaksin wants more money. Suthep wants more money. The army wants more money. The poor, middle and rich class want more money. So when Suthep explains how he is doing this to save Thailand from corruption. The only answer should be" but weren't you yourself responsibke for bringing down a government with a corruption scandal". This should be aimed at ALL the main players to reveal the absurdity of the situation. "Support me, I'm a little less corrupt than the other guy". Thai culture doesn't have the understanding of hypocrisy we have in the west. Removing planks and casting the first stone etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan michaud Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I put little stock in the foreign media...This report demonstrates my antipathy in part....A foreign reporter making the facile comments she makes indicates they usually don't have a clue...I am sent foreign newspaper clippings from friends in Holland and Canada. I find that the reports are in large part copying or paraphrasing the Thai mainstream domestic media with all its' agenda's. An indepth analysis just takes too much work for most of them...These foreign reporters can get away with that, as their audience at best have only a cursory interest in Thai Politics...They have enough political stuff going on in their own country, to get their shirt all in a knot about Thailand...Another reality leading to this, is that the Thai English Language Media is the only one these reporters can read.....The UDD/RS/PTP are unilingual in the main, and really don't care what us inconsequential Farangs think about politics here. We are the only one's puffed up about our pontification, as is the norm for political junkies. I know a number of journalists, including some from Al Jazerra and I have to say most are very responsible and do as good a job as possible. There are plenty of lazy ones too but I think you are being unfair. As one said above, it's hard to cover anything in any depth unless you have enough time and generally reports on Thailand will be very brief, 2-3 minutes tops. As a film maker I know that one of the hardest things to do is to decide what you do not have time to say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I have never seen a serious foreign journalist suggest the current conflict in Thailand is a straight forward class war.Indeed all tend to stress that though there may be elements of this, it is much more complicated than that.Yet Thai sources,even intelligent and civilised ones like SP Somtow, always say foreign journalists take this simple minded view.Beats me. What is a little odd additionally is the prevailing view that while foreigners cannot usually comprehend the unique Thai nature of the current problem, there is still much angst and excitement at what they write.I would have thought that of one believes foreigners can never "get" it, they should just be ignored. Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I have never seen a serious foreign journalist suggest the current conflict in Thailand is a straight forward class war.Indeed all tend to stress that though there may be elements of this, it is much more complicated than that.Yet Thai sources,even intelligent and civilised ones like SP Somtow, always say foreign journalists take this simple minded view.Beats me.What is a little odd additionally is the prevailing view that while foreigners cannot usually comprehend the unique Thai nature of the current problem, there is still much angst and excitement at what they write.I would have thought that of one believes foreigners can never "get" it, they should just be ignored.Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand One day someone will do an expose on weekday really goes on here. He will plan never to come to thailand again. Thais don't like the truth and will exert a punishment if you tell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGP Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) I thought that her problem on this interview was the language barrier. No one can be blamed for that (my English is also terrible). But I have asked my Thai relatives and friends, and they all say that when she talks in Thai Language she sounds no different than on this interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kqVLGS79mA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttU1a81EkaU Edited January 19, 2014 by MGP 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man River Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Foreign press admit covering Thai conflict is tricky Yep, if you find out too much, the snipers, hired by influential politicians will hunt you down and do everything to get you silenced... To the best of your knowledge, since you bring this up, how many foreign press have been targeted because they knew to much? The problem is most foreign journalists and almost all foreign politicians know too little, but think they know it all. Even those of us that have been here many years with "friends" are still learning. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus27 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Sorry, but isn't this just a puff piece by the Nation so that it can justify its criticisms of foreign media? Their journo attended the recent FCCT meeting and came away with the unenlightening thoughts that Yingluk is evasive and that Thainess is important. Much of the foreign mainstream media is biased, and yet even the Thai media is afraid to express exactly why that is the case because it would open up a huge can of worms - hence the comfort blanket of Thainess. If you want some lengthy articles then try the Land Destroyer blog and Alt Thai News, plus any links from the sites. It is also worth remembering that journalists have to follow their paymaster's editorial line or they will find themselves as independents. Look at any major news story in any country around the world; read a few mainstream media corps and a smattering of alternative sites. Then you'll see that the aim of news is not to tell the truth but to construct a narrative that their audience must believe in. A critical mind will believe nothing but instead construct their own map. Voltaire's quote rings true throughout the ages: “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blabth Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 What a stupid discussion, it would be very surprised if direct interview come without a transcript, with the questions and answer approved before the interview. That is the way how it is. For the international press has not the highest priority. The demonstrations even killings during the same will just become a side note in the news. Don't overestimate the importance. Also an interview in a foreign language will lead always to room for interpretation. And by the way Yingluck is attractive Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Foreign press admit covering Thai conflict is tricky Yep, if you find out too much, the snipers, hired by influential politicians will hunt you down and do everything to get you silenced... To the best of your knowledge, since you bring this up, how many foreign press have been targeted because they knew to much?The problem is most foreign journalists and almost all foreign politicians know too little, but think they know it all. Even those of us that have been here many years with "friends" are still learning. Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand Its not about getting silenced after the fact. Crazy defamation and less majeste law mean you darent say anything. Its complicated for all journalists. In fairness, the freest discussion is on here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayboy Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Sorry, but isn't this just a puff piece by the Nation so that it can justify its criticisms of foreign media? Their journo attended the recent FCCT meeting and came away with the unenlightening thoughts that Yingluk is evasive and that Thainess is important. Much of the foreign mainstream media is biased, and yet even the Thai media is afraid to express exactly why that is the case because it would open up a huge can of worms - hence the comfort blanket of Thainess. If you want some lengthy articles then try the Land Destroyer blog and Alt Thai News, plus any links from the sites. It is also worth remembering that journalists have to follow their paymaster's editorial line or they will find themselves as independents. Look at any major news story in any country around the world; read a few mainstream media corps and a smattering of alternative sites. Then you'll see that the aim of news is not to tell the truth but to construct a narrative that their audience must believe in. A critical mind will believe nothing but instead construct their own map. Voltaire's quote rings true throughout the ages: “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” Why do you recommend Land Destroyer and Alt Thai News? Isn't that the output of the crazed Tony Cartulucci (not his real name, he's from India or Pakistan), fan of North Korea and President Assad etc - conspiracy theorist extraordinairre and all purpose crackpot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Sorry, but isn't this just a puff piece by the Nation so that it can justify its criticisms of foreign media? Their journo attended the recent FCCT meeting and came away with the unenlightening thoughts that Yingluk is evasive and that Thainess is important. Much of the foreign mainstream media is biased, and yet even the Thai media is afraid to express exactly why that is the case because it would open up a huge can of worms - hence the comfort blanket of Thainess. If you want some lengthy articles then try the Land Destroyer blog and Alt Thai News, plus any links from the sites. It is also worth remembering that journalists have to follow their paymaster's editorial line or they will find themselves as independents. Look at any major news story in any country around the world; read a few mainstream media corps and a smattering of alternative sites. Then you'll see that the aim of news is not to tell the truth but to construct a narrative that their audience must believe in. A critical mind will believe nothing but instead construct their own map. Voltaire's quote rings true throughout the ages: To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize. Read the nation, then read new mandala and bangkok pundit to split the difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icommunity Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Of course, this is the Nation's selective and distorted report - as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusd Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 The difficulty that foreign correspondents are having with Thailand is precisely what Jonathan Head says - that the complexity of the situation here cannot possibly be condensed into a short time-frame - let alone 30 seconds. In this article, a journalist describes the difficulty in " getting through " to Yingluck in interview, while being flanked by a sea of male aides desperate to know if she is struck by how pretty the prime minister is - comes right to the heart of two key, related issues. As Yingluck is a proxy PM - a puppet, so to speak - her appearance, her prettiness - occupies a much larger dynamic of the package than would otherwise be the case. If she can't speak, that makes it even more important. If she doesn't understand what's going on, an even greater role than that still. Her English has improved - to her credit - though not to a considerable degree. But she is further handicapped by generalities, avoiding searching questions, and generally says nothing that a four year old girl could not be coached to mimic in a day. Journalists are hardened creatures. They know a smoke-screen when they see one. And yet - Yingluck poses special challenges in today's journalistic world. She's truly impossible to interview, as anyone who has seen them can attest, with the journalists clearly trying to enter what seems to be an unfathomable space. She's like George W. Bush without the intellect. You want to make it all about Yingluk or would like to expand it to include Mr heads to head with Siri or Abhisit etc etc ? they are all a nightmare to talk to. Ms Pedrosa is streets ahead of J.Head when it comes to HONEST journalism. question, Abhisit a nightmare to talk to ??? I would have thought he is one of the best English spoken Thai to interview, and pretty honest. I am all out of LIKES but Mr Abhisit is very well spoken and comments he has made have all been on queue and target. And so was Thaksin thus making him popular. And for that matter so was Hitler... I do see some similarities, Thaky and Hits both wanted total control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lobo4819 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 No one understands "Thai-ness," particularly the Thais. They just use the word as an excuse for whatever they can't/don't want to deal with. As an aside, I hadn't noticed how much Suthep resembles Beavis until I saw the above cartoon with the chessboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
focus27 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Sorry, but isn't this just a puff piece by the Nation so that it can justify its criticisms of foreign media? Their journo attended the recent FCCT meeting and came away with the unenlightening thoughts that Yingluk is evasive and that Thainess is important. Much of the foreign mainstream media is biased, and yet even the Thai media is afraid to express exactly why that is the case because it would open up a huge can of worms - hence the comfort blanket of Thainess. If you want some lengthy articles then try the Land Destroyer blog and Alt Thai News, plus any links from the sites. It is also worth remembering that journalists have to follow their paymaster's editorial line or they will find themselves as independents. Look at any major news story in any country around the world; read a few mainstream media corps and a smattering of alternative sites. Then you'll see that the aim of news is not to tell the truth but to construct a narrative that their audience must believe in. A critical mind will believe nothing but instead construct their own map. Voltaire's quote rings true throughout the ages: “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” Why do you recommend Land Destroyer and Alt Thai News? Isn't that the output of the crazed Tony Cartulucci (not his real name, he's from India or Pakistan), fan of North Korea and President Assad etc - conspiracy theorist extraordinairre and all purpose crackpot. Like I said, don't believe anything. However, this discussion seems to be about how apparently difficult it is to write insightful articles on Thai politics. Those blogs have a large back catalogue of articles and numerous links to external sources. You may not like how he joins the dots, but at least there is a large canvas. On Cartalucci himself, a simple search will reveal counter-articles; interestingly, many do not dispute his claims but charge him with telling only half the story. This is still better than the mainstream that gives out mere shadows. I do not expect balance from any party (mainstream or alternative) but can achieve balance through multiplicity. I think that for an individual several steps removed from "the truth" yet having to live through some turmoil, the most important thing is to put together a reasonably accurate map of the situation. This does not necessarily require knowing every covert agreement, but it does need a multiplicity of sources and some thinking for oneself. I have no personal political belief and no flag to fly, but I am concerned about the safety and quality of life of myself and my family, and so my map of the situation is geared towards the relative evolution of freedoms and repressions - not always obvious from the surface news. I just hope the alarm bells don't go off too late. (BTW the term "conspiracy theory" was invented in the 1960s as a derogatory term that the corporate mainstream media could use against anybody who gets close to the truth. A very good review of this can be found in a chapter in Sythetic Terror by Tarpley - I think one of the best books on the subject, sold on the back of 911 but over half of it is a history of confirmed covert actions, especially the "anni di piombo" (years of lead) in Italy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 At the end of the day there is no.mechanism in Thailand to hold a pooyai accountable for a lie. So what is the point in investigating anything? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3NUMBAS Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 noticeable that the BBC is keeping a low profile on the marching ,just quick shots of the troubles and not much details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briggsy Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Maybe there is just nothing to report. No ideological struggle No class conflict No genuine grassroots campaign No war No atrocities Just a power struggle between two patronage nexuses for the opportunity to steal 30% of the annual national budget, the right to appoint whoever you like to every lucrative government quango board, the authority to tell the police who to investigate and who to leave alone, etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertson468 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 It also makes it a bit tricky when foriegn reporters get bashed, intimidated and attacked by bonehead yellow shirt protesters when the coverage is not to their liking. And your proof that it is Yellow Shirts? Or is it you that has such a "bonehead" biased view? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Maybe there is just nothing to report. No ideological struggle No class conflict No genuine grassroots campaign No war No atrocities Just a power struggle between two patronage nexuses for the opportunity to steal 30% of the annual national budget, the right to appoint whoever you like to every lucrative government quango board, the authority to tell the police who to investigate and who to leave alone, etc. That is how the thai elite would like it. No one likes to wash their dirty laundry in public you know. Its just so low class. Why can't things just be the way they were. Everyone did as they were told, didn't cause trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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