Driving in UK with new thai license

[steve187]

Taken from this government pdf - http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_068659.pdf

''Coming to live in Great Britain

Ordinary licences

While your full licence is valid, you can drive any type of small vehicle shown on your licence for up to 12 months from the time you started living in Great Britain. To continue to drive after this you must pass a GB driving test before the 12 month period ends. If you get a GB provisional licence during this period, you will not have to display ‘L’ plates or be supervised by a qualified driver, and you will be able to drive on motorways''

I am not say a first Thai licence would be classed as a ''full licence'' but if it is or someone holds a 5year Thai licence and settles in the uk, then then above will apply, and if any 'points' are collected whilst driving they would go on the uk provisional and not have to involve a court appearence.

no-one else seems to have picked up on this

[Gnasher328]

A friend from Thailand with Aussie and Thai licences visited me in the UK last year. The problem wa not one of licence technicalities but insurnce. Nearly all companies wanted a full UK licence plus 1 YR RESIDENCY.

[Ulic]

Dude don't you love your wife. As said take the lessons do the test there. Nothing wrong with

taking the test here getting some practise here, Just don't confuse certified (licenced) and qualified.

She may be legally licenced to drive (depending on whose opinion you believe) but she certainly

will not be qualified. She hurts herself or someone else, your not going to be feeling so good.

[chiang mai]

My question is:

I'm a Brit who holds a full UK license and also a full 5 year Thai license, the problem is my photo and address on my UK license have expired and neither can be renewed without a permanent UK address. Since I live in Thailand but want to rent a car in the UK on holiday, I'm not permitted legally to use my Thai license because my UK license remains in effect, does that mean I can't drive on either?

Yes I know there are ways around the above and indeed I've taken steps on a couple, my question though remains, is this a loophole that excludes people in those circumstances from driving period. Remember, the picture has expired which makes it illegal to drive and presumably to rent a car, the paper copy remains valid however.

[MaprangHolmes]

You may have got the rental company to hire you a vehicle on your Thai licence but unless you have a valid UK license you are driving illegally. UK residents can not use foreign licence's to drive here.

I guess you know more than DVLA and the hire companies insurance company both whom where contacted before the rental began.

[Jay Sata]

My question is:

I'm a Brit who holds a full UK license and also a full 5 year Thai license, the problem is my photo and address on my UK license have expired and neither can be renewed without a permanent UK address. Since I live in Thailand but want to rent a car in the UK on holiday, I'm not permitted legally to use my Thai license because my UK license remains in effect, does that mean I can't drive on either?

Yes I know there are ways around the above and indeed I've taken steps on a couple, my question though remains, is this a loophole that excludes people in those circumstances from driving period. Remember, the picture has expired which makes it illegal to drive and presumably to rent a car, the paper copy remains valid however.

One way around the problem of not having a current UK address is to use that of a friend or relative.

Edited January 21, 2014 by Jay Sata

[chiang mai]

The license doesn't expire when the picture does (every ten years) but the penalty for not updating it is a fine of GBP 1,000.

As for the Thai license: I am not allowed to drive using that license because I already have a UK license, albeit one with an out of date picture on it.

[theoldgit]

My question is:

I'm a Brit who holds a full UK license and also a full 5 year Thai license, the problem is my photo and address on my UK license have expired and neither can be renewed without a permanent UK address. Since I live in Thailand but want to rent a car in the UK on holiday, I'm not permitted legally to use my Thai license because my UK license remains in effect, does that mean I can't drive on either?

Yes I know there are ways around the above and indeed I've taken steps on a couple, my question though remains, is this a loophole that excludes people in those circumstances from driving period. Remember, the picture has expired which makes it illegal to drive and presumably to rent a car, the paper copy remains valid however.

One way around the problem of not having a current UK address is to use that of a friend or relative.

When you renew a UK Driving Licence you have to provide an address where you have lived for the last three years and the DVLA state they will confirm your details with the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC).

I think it's risky to use a friends address to attempt to circumnavigate the system.

[Waterloo]

The license doesn't expire when the picture does (every ten years) but the penalty for not updating it is a fine of GBP 1,000.

As for the Thai license: I am not allowed to drive using that license because I already have a UK license, albeit one with an out of date picture on it.

Shocked to hear about the fine that is a new one on me!

But as you can't renew your license for the reasons stated how do you avoid the fine?

[Jay Sata]

The license doesn't expire when the picture does (every ten years) but the penalty for not updating it is a fine of GBP 1,000.

As for the Thai license: I am not allowed to drive using that license because I already have a UK license, albeit one with an out of date picture on it.

Shocked to hear about the fine that is a new one on me!

But as you can't renew your license for the reasons stated how do you avoid the fine?

The fine can be "up to £1,000". It is highly unlikely any magistrates bench would impose the maximum penalty

However your defence would hinge on your explanation on why you did not update a change of address or the photo.

As the DVLA do not accept addresses outside the UK it is impossible to comply with the rule so the case would most likely be dismissed.

UK insurance company Direct Line claims that around 2.6 million drivers have out of date licences.

source of info; http://www.raccars.co.uk/news/article/2394/millions-of-motorists-unwittingly-breaking-the-law

Edited January 22, 2014 by Jay Sata

[theoldgit]

OK enough of the off topic once, I've asked nicely, so enough.

As I've said before this thread is regarding whether the OP's wife can legally drive in the UK one a one year temporary licence, this response from the DVLA which advises that a visitor can legally drive on a full licence with at least 12 months remaining, indicate that she cannot. But it leads me to believe that a person with a five year licence can, despite what some people indicate.

Unfortunatley they didn't answer my question which applies to myself and Chiang Mai who have expired photo cards but otherwise are still qualified to drive

Dear theoldgit

It may help if I explain, as a visitor you may drive vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes and with up to 8 passenger seats, provided your full licence or International Driving Permit remains valid for up to 12 months from the date of entering Great Britain (GB).

I would not be able to comment on the policy of the car rental companies.

You would not be able to renew your UK licence, on your visit as you need to resident in the UK.

I hope this answers your enquiry.

A number of off topic responses have been removed, it's really not helpful to constantly derail threads.

[Surasak]

A few months ago I made an enquiry regarding car hire on a Thai licence to a company in Poole Dorset. I was assured it was possible as the licence was printed with both Thai and English language. Had it been only Thai they would reuse the hire even with a citified translation.

[Basil B]

The license doesn't expire when the picture does (every ten years) but the penalty for not updating it is a fine of GBP 1,000.

As for the Thai license: I am not allowed to drive using that license because I already have a UK license, albeit one with an out of date picture on it.

Shocked to hear about the fine that is a new one on me!

But as you can't renew your license for the reasons stated how do you avoid the fine?

The fine can be "up to £1,000". It is highly unlikely any magistrates bench would impose the maximum penalty

However your defence would hinge on your explanation on why you did not update a change of address or the photo.

As the DVLA do not accept addresses outside the UK it is impossible to comply with the rule so the case would most likely be dismissed.

UK insurance company Direct Line claims that around 2.6 million drivers have out of date licences.

source of info; http://www.raccars.co.uk/news/article/2394/millions-of-motorists-unwittingly-breaking-the-law

Firstly, it would be the police officers discretion whether to refer the issue to the Chief Constable for possible prosecution, I am sure one would be let of with a warning given the circumstances.

You do not have to carry your licence with you when driving in the UK but you should have acceptable proof of ID so carry your passport, so apply straight away on arrival back in the UK, if stopped it is in the post.

By the way there is no current photo on my licence and do you think I am worried? no because there is no photo, still got my original paper licence and nether had points in my life, (had an endorsement or two in my youth when it was a little red book) .

Edited May 20, 2014 by Basil B

[longballlarry]

I can remember watching a UK police show recently on C4. The police officer in London stopped a foreign guy living in London, who then produced his foreign car license. The policeman then contacted his control centre to get them to check with immigration on when the guy had officially entered the UK, as he was told by the copper that he would have only 12months to use his licence. The African guy said he had been in the UK 6 months. Immigration checks came through a few minutes later to confirm that the guy had been in the UK 8 years. This meant his license was invalid, which meant his insurance was invalid. His car was confiscated by the Police was towed away, and he was reported/summons for the relevant offenses.

[Basil B]

Yes, the police officer was 100% correct, in most instances those with foreign licences do not need an IDP if their licence is in English but it can only be used for 12 months after arrival in the UK so I am assuming that there is a loop hole where by a person can leave and return to reset the clock but I also recall if one is on a settlement visa the clock would not be reset.

I hope he was not an over stayer, it would be terrible if he was and the police office was not asked to hold him for immigration to deal with.

[7by7]

Basically correct, Basil; except that there is no legal requirement to have an IDP if driving in the UK with a foreign licence; even if that licence is not in English.

For a non EU/EEA national visitor, the clock is indeed reset every time they leave and then re-enter the UK.

For a non EU/EEA national living long term in the UK, e.g. a settlement visa holder or a student, it isn't. After living in the UK for 12 months they must stop driving unless they have obtained the appropriate GB or NI licence; no matter how often they may leave and re-enter.

Obviously, the best advice is for them to obtain a GB or NI provisional licence and take and pass their tests to obtain a full licence before this 12 months is up.

EU/EEA nationals can use their home country licence until they are 70 or for 3 years, whichever is the longer, before they have to obtain a GB or NI one.

Nationals of designated countries/territories* can use their home licence for 12 months and during this time exchange it for a GB or NI one.

Note that all of the above only applies if the licence is the equivalent of a GB or NI full one. A licence endorsed provisional, temporary or similar cannot be used in the UK, even if the driver is supervised.

*These are:- Gibraltar, Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Andorra, Australia, Barbados, British Virgin Islands, Canada, Falkland Islands, Faroe Islands, Hong Kong, Japan, Monaco, New Zealand, Republic of Korea, Singapore, South Africa, Switzerland, Zimbabwe.

Edited May 21, 2014 by 7by7

[durhamboy]

7x7 - you say :-

"Note that all of the above only applies if the licence is the equivalent of a GB or NI full one. A licence endorsed provisional, temporary or similar cannot be used in the UK, even if the driver is supervised."

As you and I know from discussing this in a previous very similar topic, when a Thai passes their test they are issued with a 12 month license that they exchange for a permanent license automatically after the 12 months. There are no further tests to pass. The 12 month license is in English and Thai and is stamped "Temporary" i.e. only limited by time. Similarly a UK license is temporary as it has an expiration date (usually 70th birthday of the driver).

Therefore a 12 month Thai license is a full driving license. I was thinking of getting one for my wife and I did quite a lot of research on this. No one (including the DVLA) could categorically say that it can't be used for the first 12 months of coming to the UK. In the end we didn't bother getting it as we thought it was not worth the hassles that may possibly have occurred for a mere 12 months of driving.

[7by7]

I remember the discussion, durhamboy.

If I recall correctly my feeling then, and it is certainly now, is that as the licence has the word 'Temporary' on it that it cannot be used in the UK. I would argue that it is not a full licence as such, but a probationary one. Although I do not know enough about Thai law in this respect to say that categorically.

Similar to the situation of new drivers in Britain (not sure about Northern Ireland). They are on probation for 12 months after passing their test and if they amass 6 or more penalty points in that period their full licence is revoked and they revert to provisional status and have to take both tests again.

Take for another, though slightly different, example a Canadian licence.

When I was an ADI I taught a number of Canadians and wondered why they had to take a GB (or NI) test when they already had a Canadian licence which they could exchange for a GB one. The reason being that a Canadian licence at the time (and may still now) did not differentiate between whether the holder had passed a manual or an automatic test. Therefore it could only be used in the UK to drive automatics and if they did exchange it they would only get a GB (or NI) automatic licence. If they wanted to drive a manual then they had to take the GB (or NI) manual test; even if they had previously passed such in Canada.

[durhamboy]

7by7 - you may be right. When I first looked into it I, like you, thought that it wouldn't be valid in the UK. However, with more research and thinking I decided that it probably is valid.

You say that you think it is a probationary one. That's a new term to me. We have talked about temporary and provisional licenses but I don't recall anyone using the term probationary license. I suppose you are right in that you could describe it as a probationary license as it is initially valid for 12 months. But does that make any difference? After 12 months you automatically get issued with a permanent one. No further testing required.

Of course if the Thai driver picked up driving convictions in Thailand then the 1 year license may not be renewed but that is similar to a UK driver. You give the example of a new UK license holder where there are some rules that specifically relate to them in their first 12 months of driving. But isn't it true that that same driver with a UK license less than 1 year old could use his/her UK driving license and drive in Thailand if they wanted to?

I can't see the relevance of your Canadian example. That seems to be just about preventing someone who has passed their test on an automatic from getting a license to drive a manual in the UK.