drx13 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I have been trying to register my will at the provincial amphur. My will effectively is a trust fund to take care of all future need, (including my condo),of a largely unwanted 4 yo Thai boy, I have devoted most of the last 4 years to his health, welfare and education at some considerable emotional and financial cost,and feel privileged to see his development. The above information is not relevant to my "complaint", and neither are the staff at the Amphur knowledgeable of this or the trust. but is revealed to indicate my exasperation at "attitudes". However, here is my beef, I am asked to take two Thai witnesses to the Amphur to witness the deposit of the will, NOT as signatories on the will as this has been done. I do not know any Thais who are free to go with me, it is some distance. A Thai translator called the supervisor and asked him if any of the staff might be witnesses (for a good "consideration",). The answer was NO. I and many I know would risk their lives to save others but...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Could be that you have approached the Amphur representative in the wrong manner. Asking over the phone if a bribe is required may easily have caused offence. Amphur staff will act as a witness and will let you know if a witness 'fee' is necessary or not as a part of the process to register a Will. Edited January 22, 2014 by simple1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wym Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 And the "trust fund" aspect raises a flag for me as far as I know such legal mechanisms aren't recognized here. Assume you'd have lawyers involved, can't they provide witnesses for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 So you have been here a few years and you dont know 2 people ? If you are really that stuck get two motorcycle taxi boys, pay them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drx13 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Could be that you have approached the Amphur representative in the wrong manner. Asking over the phone if a bribe is required may easily have caused offence. Amphur staff will act as a witness and will let you know if a witness 'fee' is necessary or not as a part of the process to register a Will. I did not speak to anyone.a Thai lady who does translations did all the talking. Money is not a problem in obtaining witnesses, I have approached some motosai guys even with a written request (from the translator), asking them to just say their price, I would not argue, have never ever "bargained' for anything here as the sums are so trivial. Their responses engender such protracted debates among themselves, they seem like the current situation in trying to get a Peace Conference on Syria. I believe the requirement is so far outside their normal millieu, that I may have well been asking them to fly to the moon with me. Edited January 22, 2014 by drx13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langsuan Man Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Once again WHERE ? Had no problem in having the ladies at the Amphur in Bamlamung witness my signature for my will, no price was mentioned and after they had witnessed it I gave the each 100THB before I left the office. Therefore it was seen as a gratuity and not a bribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drx13 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 Once again WHERE ? Had no problem in having the ladies at the Amphur in Bamlamung witness my signature for my will, no price was mentioned and after they had witnessed it I gave the each 100THB before I left the office. Therefore it was seen as a gratuity and not a bribe Nakorn Si Thammarat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drx13 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 And the "trust fund" aspect raises a flag for me as far as I know such legal mechanisms aren't recognized here. Assume you'd have lawyers involved, can't they provide witnesses for you? My trust fund means leaving all my assets to someone I trust to carry out my wishes. I can't see the perception of lawyers fitting my criteria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 And the "trust fund" aspect raises a flag for me as far as I know such legal mechanisms aren't recognized here. Assume you'd have lawyers involved, can't they provide witnesses for you? My trust fund means leaving all my assets to someone I trust to carry out my wishes. I can't see the perception of lawyers fitting my criteria I believe the correct term would be 'executor of an estate'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ford8 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Could be that you have approached the Amphur representative in the wrong manner. Asking over the phone if a bribe is required may easily have caused offence. Amphur staff will act as a witness and will let you know if a witness 'fee' is necessary or not as a part of the process to register a Will. How could it be considered a bribe, (persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement.) It is the usual "nuthin' for nuthin" mindset the guy appreciates. Edited January 22, 2014 by metisdead Font reset to default forum font. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langsuan Man Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 And the "trust fund" aspect raises a flag for me as far as I know such legal mechanisms aren't recognized here. Assume you'd have lawyers involved, can't they provide witnesses for you? My trust fund means leaving all my assets to someone I trust to carry out my wishes. I can't see the perception of lawyers fitting my criteria I believe the correct term would be 'executor of an estate'. Tywais is correct and and the executor does not have to be a Thai, can be a farang. Also any lawyer can be an executor, although most Thais don't trust lawyers to follow your wishes when you are no longer in a position to make your wishes known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think you will find the word used in the English language version of the Thai Civil Code is 'Administrator' as in -- Section 1711. The administrators of an estate shall included the persons appointed by will or by order of the Court. Section 1712. An administrator of the estate by will may be appointed: etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Could be that you have approached the Amphur representative in the wrong manner. Asking over the phone if a bribe is required may easily have caused offence. Amphur staff will act as a witness and will let you know if a witness 'fee' is necessary or not as a part of the process to register a Will. How could it be considered a bribe, (persuade (someone) to act in one's favor, typically illegally or dishonestly, by a gift of money or other inducement.) It is the usual "nuthin' for nuthin" mindset the guy appreciates. Proactively offering a "consideration" can very easily be interpreted as bribe for assistance/shortcut for usual bureaucratic process. OP: OK sounds like your translator has gone about the process the wrong way. The Amphur where you reside may be 'different', but it's standard practice for Amphur staff to act as witnesses for registering a Will. If I were in your shoes, just go to the Amphur, if translator is unable to attend, just make sure she/he is available by phone should you run into any communication barriers EDIT: Unless you have already done so, get the Thai language version of your Will independently verified to ensure compliance to your wishes and no untoward Clauses have been inserted. Edited January 22, 2014 by simple1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drx13 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) I think you will find the word used in the English language version of the Thai Civil Code is 'Administrator' as in -- Section 1711. The administrators of an estate shall included the persons appointed by will or by order of the Court. Section 1712. An administrator of the estate by will may be appointed: etc. No-one is administering any estate/s..It is pure and simple, the guy gets my assets, whether they are 50 baht 0r 50 million baht and does as he sees fit. Like I give you 5000 baht to spend, it's up to you, spend it, save it, set fire to it..NO lawyers involved. I took advice from a partner in Freeman, Hardy and Willis.He said difficulties can be created, to elicit fees by the unscrupulous. I can even arrange it so he gets them before I die, quite simple. Actually what I expected along with the helpful advice I have thankfully received, was some input from our experts on Thai culture, how the simple requirement of putting pen to paper, could be an issue. For Mr.Simple...quote "EDIT: Unless you have already done so, get the Thai language version of your Will independently verified to ensure compliance to your wishes and no untoward Clauses have been inserted." 1. My will makes no mention of my wishes and my "beneficiary" does not read Thai and to me it was a given to check the translation, since the substance is about a dozen words, it was not difficult. Interestingly the Amphur staff scrutinised it endlessly, and it really has nothing to do with them, not that I minded, but curious why. Edited January 22, 2014 by drx13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 No-one is administering any estate/s..It is pure and simple, the guy gets my assets, whether they are 50 baht 0r 50 million baht and does as he sees fit. Like I give you 5000 baht to spend, it's up to you, spend it, save it, set fire to it..NO lawyers involved. I took advice from a partner in Freeman, Hardy and Willis.He said difficulties can be created, to elicit fees by the unscrupulous. I can even arrange it so he gets them before I die, quite simple. Not that simple in actuality. you need to be careful here as the Thai laws follow the below or else the state may get it all. In other words, if it doesn't fall into the below list the person, regardless of your verbal intention, may not see it. Seems the term executor and administrator are synonymous based on several Thai law firms using them interchangeably. Thailand inheritance law When a foreign with assets in Thailand dies and there is no last will the execution of his Thailand estate is governed by the law of the state of which he was a national at the time of his death, unless at that time of his death he was more closely connected to (another state) Thailand, in which case Thai law could apply. Say the foreigner is married to a Thai and resident in Thailand the situation is different from a foreigner who is only periodically (on holidays) in Thailand. When there is no last will or testament and Thai law applies the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code specifies that the assets will be distributed amongst the statutory heirs. There are 6 classes of statutory heirs (section 1629 Civil and Commercial Code) and they are entitled to inherit in the following order: descendants parents brothers and sisters of full blood brothers and sisters of half blood grandparents uncles and aunts So long as there is an heir surviving in one of the classes, the heir of the lower class has no entitlement to share in the assets. The one exception is where there is a descendant and a parent in which case they take an equal share (section 1630). If there is more than one heir in any one class, they take an equal share of the entitlement available to that class. The surviving spouse is a statutory heir but their entitlement depends on what other class of statutory heir exists. If there are surviving children of the deceased, the spouse and children take the estate between them. Therefore, if there are three children, then the estate is divided in to four equal shares. If you are married, in Thailand your spouse may not be entitled to your entire estate when you die, or if you are unmarried but living with a Thai partner, your partner may not be entitled to anything at all. bangkoklawonline Another site - Chaninat & Leeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think the OP should well be receive advice under Thai law as to what may entail if the beneficiary is not persona juris at the time of his possible demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wym Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) when there is no will. . . But yes if there are close rellies here, should get a lawyer to at least review the doc Edited January 22, 2014 by wym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drx13 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 The dysfunctional relatives of the child know nothing of my will/intentions and will have no idea of who is paying the bills. How can the bills be verified ? you will ask. The main billpayer has watchdogs,known to him but again anonymous to others.. How can I trust these people ? "We wuz in Joliet togedder" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drx13 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) I think the OP should well be receive advice under Thai law as to what may entail if the beneficiary is not persona juris at the time of his possible demise. The more probable but not all possible what-ifs? are covered. Possible demise. ?? Edited January 22, 2014 by drx13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think the OP should well be receive advice under Thai law as to what may entail if the beneficiary is not persona juris at the time of his possible demise. The more probable but not all possible what-ifs? are covered. Possible demise. ?? Yes -- so what if you drop dead before the kid turns 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Langsuan Man Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think you will find the word used in the English language version of the Thai Civil Code is 'Administrator' as in -- Section 1711. The administrators of an estate shall included the persons appointed by will or by order of the Court. Section 1712. An administrator of the estate by will may be appointed: etc. No-one is administering any estate/s..It is pure and simple, the guy gets my assets, whether they are 50 baht 0r 50 million baht and does as he sees fit. Like I give you 5000 baht to spend, it's up to you, spend it, save it, set fire to it..NO lawyers involved. I took advice from a partner in Freeman, Hardy and Willis.He said difficulties can be created, to elicit fees by the unscrupulous. I can even arrange it so he gets them before I die, quite simple. Actually what I expected along with the helpful advice I have thankfully received, was some input from our experts on Thai culture, how the simple requirement of putting pen to paper, could be an issue. For Mr.Simple...quote "EDIT: Unless you have already done so, get the Thai language version of your Will independently verified to ensure compliance to your wishes and no untoward Clauses have been inserted." 1. My will makes no mention of my wishes and my "beneficiary" does not read Thai and to me it was a given to check the translation, since the substance is about a dozen words, it was not difficult. Interestingly the Amphur staff scrutinised it endlessly, and it really has nothing to do with them, not that I minded, but curious why. Since your Will didn't will anything, it is understandable why the Amphur staff scrutinized it endlessly. They were probably trying to understand exactly what you were doing there. I don't understand what you were trying to accomplish and I speak English When my will was submitted to my Amphur it was both in English and Thai so there was no question in my mind what it said. The Thai language version does have precedence when it is submitted to the court when I die, not surprising since this is Thailand after all Also don't really understand how a partner in Freeman, Hardy and Willis got into the act ? Are they a Thai law firm located in Nakorn Si Thammarat ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drx13 Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 quote "Since your Will didn't will anything," It willed, if that is a verb "All my Property and Assets in Thailand"...no more no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiftyTwo Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Once again WHERE ? Had no problem in having the ladies at the Amphur in Bamlamung witness my signature for my will, no price was mentioned and after they had witnessed it I gave the each 100THB before I left the office. Therefore it was seen as a gratuity and not a bribe Nakorn Si Thammarat no trusts in thailand amphur will is for division of assets only, no conditions, simple wording Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Freeman, Hardy and Willis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiftyTwo Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 The dysfunctional relatives of the child know nothing of my will/intentions and will have no idea of who is paying the bills. How can the bills be verified ? you will ask. The main billpayer has watchdogs,known to him but again anonymous to others.. How can I trust these people ? "We wuz in Joliet togedder" you cant, there is a company in chiang mai doing wills. administering trusts, investing money. essentially they try to steal the lot. thailand is full of foreign crooks posing as businessmen, financial advisors and managers. as long as they pay off the police and judges, you have no protection at all. your money will just disappear, sorry bad investment, gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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