When the rich fix the rules, the poor lose: Thai editorial

[manarak]

The best way to re-balance wealth is to encourage entrepreneurship.

Give the means to clever people to make their own money without being forced to go work at some big company. Small companies are the best way to disseminate wealth.

[benny1616]

the problem is the owners of mass media are very rich too and people like them are telling the ordinary people wich party is the best for them to vote, what in reality is the best party for the rich.. therfefore i always say the worst enemy for the ordinary people are the mass media with all the manipulation and lies from them.

[benny1616]

This editorial, hiding under the title of “When the rich fix the rules, the poor lose”, is politically motivated with a political agenda to mislead the rice farmers who voted for the PTP led government and those who did not.

The problems faced by rice farmers highlighted in this editorial is a result of late payments. It however, has shown us the other side of the story. It is that the farmers need the rice pledging scheme without which their workers are having to deal with higher living costs that the minimum-wage rise does not cover.

The problem is not the rice pledging scheme, but disruptive politics and the enforcement of laws. The farmers themselves have to bear some responsibilities. They should be the party to help the government in rooting up corrupt practices, improving its management and not submitting to the illegal demands of some unscrupulous business operators and factory owners.

There is no sign that PTP led government is not fulfilling its election promises and that the voters are being lured by politicians' promises. PTP’s predecessor TRT, was the first party in Thai political history that fulfill all its election promises. The first party to implement policies that its oppositions accused as populists policies to buy votes. The success of TRT policies gave rise to Thaksin’s popularity and the use of him now seen as has created a power base not completely beholden to the entrenched establishment. It has also created Thaksinism or Thaksin regime and used by oppositions of the PTP led government in their struggle for power.

Increasingly, countries are treating food securities as part of their national security and defense. Detail information during negotiation and the outcome agreement after being ratified by respective country’s legal system on food import and export are treated as State secrets. Those who has or wants access to the information have to follow and abide by the law of the country.

Thailand is in a very disadvantage position to negotiate and compete with any country especially on matters related to food security. No country will be willing to negotiate with us if we do not amend our respective laws to counter the challenges from the changing environment and volatile international politics.

you are more than only wrong. without poor people no and never could exist rich people. the poor make the rich rich because they work for them. let work my money means in reality lets work poor people for me. if a nation lke a real family shares all income than you have no rich and no poor people. if a family would work like the capitalism system we humans would extinct very fast. looking to how a family works you can see the nature have made for us the socialistic system. this has also nothing to do with a political motivation. to share and help its a system from the nature for us.

Edited January 23, 2014 by benny1616

[ABCer]

The poor always lose.

What are we discussing?

[icommunity]

This editorial, hiding under the title of “When the rich fix the rules, the poor lose”, is politically motivated with a political agenda to mislead the rice farmers who voted for the PTP led government and those who did not.

The problems faced by rice farmers highlighted in this editorial is a result of late payments. It however, has shown us the other side of the story. It is that the farmers need the rice pledging scheme without which their workers are having to deal with higher living costs that the minimum-wage rise does not cover.

The problem is not the rice pledging scheme, but disruptive politics and the enforcement of laws. The farmers themselves have to bear some responsibilities. They should be the party to help the government in rooting up corrupt practices, improving its management and not submitting to the illegal demands of some unscrupulous business operators and factory owners.

There is no sign that PTP led government is not fulfilling its election promises and that the voters are being lured by politicians' promises. PTP’s predecessor TRT, was the first party in Thai political history that fulfill all its election promises. The first party to implement policies that its oppositions accused as populists policies to buy votes. The success of TRT policies gave rise to Thaksin’s popularity and the use of him now seen as has created a power base not completely beholden to the entrenched establishment. It has also created Thaksinism or Thaksin regime and used by oppositions of the PTP led government in their struggle for power.

Increasingly, countries are treating food securities as part of their national security and defense. Detail information during negotiation and the outcome agreement after being ratified by respective country’s legal system on food import and export are treated as State secrets. Those who has or wants access to the information have to follow and abide by the law of the country.

Thailand is in a very disadvantage position to negotiate and compete with any country especially on matters related to food security. No country will be willing to negotiate with us if we do not amend our respective laws to counter the challenges from the changing environment and volatile international politics.

you are more than only wrong. without poor people no and never could exist rich people. the poor make the rich rich because they work for them. let work my money means in reality lets work poor people for me. if a nation lke a real family shares all income than you have no rich and no poor people. if a family would work like the capitalism system we humans would extinct very fast. looking to how a family works you can see the nature have made for us the socialistic system. this has also nothing to do with a political motivation. to share and help its a system from the nature for us.

Please read my comment on the editorial carefully. Sorry, I am not talking about rich-poor gaps and its existence. I was on the opinion that this is a politically motivated with political agenda editorial.

[phycokiller]

as well as the op its also predicted that the amount of jobs, in western countries in any case, is going to halve over the next 20 years due to automation, its seems to me that some kind of wealth redistribution will have to take place or we will return to feudalism, it also seems to me that the form of socialism that all the western countries had until about 1980, ie progressive taxation, worked pretty well

[bigbamboo]

Basically this is just another little article bashing the current Thaksin government. Are the Suthep gang on the side of the poor? Of course not!

Corruption, vote buying etc will never go away, its an expected part of the system as Thais love all this monkey business, its part of their culture.

How is this bashing the Thaksin government....... unless you perceive them to be rich fixers?

And anyway, I thought this was supposed to be the Yingluck government.

[mamypoko]

To the best of my knowledge, it's not anti-corruption sentiment that drives the Gates and their pals to donate >=50% of their wealth.

--------------

India has 'recently' passed some fascinating and so far very effective anti-corruption laws. Here, I am really hoping that a TV member/s can better explain in detail just what they are doing.

My understanding is that the new law provides an economic incentive to report/turn in people for acts of corruption. Here's the kicker, typically both the giver of corrupt monies AND the receiver of said money face prosecution...however, India's new law only seeks (pardon the pun) to prosecute the receiver of the money NOT the giver...in fact, the money exchanged between the giver and receiver is to be returned to the GIVER! The economics of this law are both simple and elegant. Historically, both the giver and receiver had every reason to keep their corrupt deals 'in the dark'...not so much now.

The OP suggests that mere altruism on the part of the rich and powerful will end corruption in Thailand - dream on!

Why not let capitalism and the so called empty hand go to work here in LOS?

Again, please someone do a better job of explaining of India's new anti-corruption law/s.

B. reg'

no need to explain further, you said it very well, awesome idea

Awesome idea ????

If I read it well, this means, the giver, f.i. some rich person that wants a law bend for his benefit, can have some government official arrested and punished, when his payment under table does not bear fruits !

Resulting in him getting his cash back !!

Sounds like a result-insurance for underhand illegal deals.

The law is designed to address those that would illegally profit from the power their official position grants them. Yes, people with a lot of money or favor to offer can always find a corrupt official and to be sure this law, as with all laws will not stamp out all corruption - there are laws against speeding, but people still exceed the limit, for example. However, in this case, it doesn't have to be the giver of money that reports the crime; it could be a co-worker, regular citizen, etc...

[falangadang]

And this is meant to be breaking news???

This has been the status quo for centuries,... and at least the past 40 years or so in our modern era!

[kikoman]

That is exactly what is happening today in Thailand, The rich and old power structure are mad at the present government for its "populist programs" spreading part of Thailand's wealth with the less advantaged people of the country, the 30 baht health care insurance, the rice pledge-ing program, the loans to large and small villages, the improvement of infrastructure in rural Thailand, etc.

The rich see this as the money that is rightfully theirs is being spent on the poor/rural/farmers,population of the country, all the attacks on Yingluck except for a few, Amnesty bill, a fully elected Senate has to do with the "populist" policies enacted since 2001, and also by the present government. The yellow posters on TV decry the wasteful spending (populist program aimed at spreading the wealth to the other 99% of the country that needs that help).

They have resorted to use "undemocratic" methods as they are unable to win via Democratic free and equal election!

They are attacking one of their own Thaskin S. who dared defy the old powers that be, and shared the wealth with the rural population of Thailand! They arranged a military coup that forced Thaskin into exile, and are now concerned that he had awakened the sleeping Rural population that now knows the power of their vote.

Thaksin for what ever reasons he started TRT, which I think was to help enrich himself more, awakened the sleeping rural population that are now demanding their share of the Thai Pie!

There is no going back to the old business as usual that the rich are willing to tear Thailand apart for. However this current problem turns out it is not the end but the bargaining of the new born again Thailand!

Cheers

Edited January 23, 2014 by kikoman

[Tatsujin]

The often criticised rice subsidy scheme in Thailand was a commendable attempt to move wealth back to the poor. Where it went wrong is that it relied on borrowed money instead of taking it directly from the rich.

It went wrong because they paid way over market price for the rice . . . simple as that . . . it was NOT a well thought out policy nor was it commendable when the only beneficiaries are those who are ALREADY rich, not the poor it was (supposed) to help.

[Trouble]

The problem with all this talk of wealth inequality and wealth redistribution is that it doesn't work. First off if all the wealth in Thailand was redistributed tomorrow and everyone had an equal share, in a year most would be broke and a few would have made prudent decisions and would be accumulating wealth again. It's like that anywhere. Most people make poor decisions about money. That's the plain and simple truth and we see it everyday with people we know or with whom we work. Some save for the rainy day and others spend like there is no tomorrow. The Bill Gates' of this world did not make their money by twisting someone's arm. They developed a product that people want. Just like the Red Bull people in Thailand. There is no problem taxing the wealthy a little more to help fund programs but for the most part the stupid people will still be stupid with money. Most Thais cannot seem to budget for a month let alone a life time.

[Hawk]

Basically this is just another little article bashing the current Thaksin government. Are the Suthep gang on the side of the poor? Of course not!

Corruption, vote buying etc will never go away, its an expected part of the system as Thais love all this monkey business, its part of their culture.

How is this bashing the Thaksin government....... unless you perceive them to be rich fixers?

And anyway, I thought this was supposed to be the Yingluck government.

Yingluck/Thaksin current government, now do you understand.

[Emster23]

According to World Bank figures, per capita income in Thailand is around 5,300 USD. How many farmer families of four pull in $20K per year. Right. The rich here are obscenely rich. The article started off well enough, but then focused on the reds, completely ignoring all the corruption that has gone before, which probably led to the rich getting so stinking rich. And if anyone think Suthep and friends are being allowed to continue to try to bring down the government because the army etc want democracy, and are not mere puppets of the less visible rich (far richer and more numerous than Thaksin could hope to be).... well, wake up and smell the coffee.

[Mousehound]

The problem with all this talk of wealth inequality and wealth redistribution is that it doesn't work. First off if all the wealth in Thailand was redistributed tomorrow and everyone had an equal share, in a year most would be broke and a few would have made prudent decisions and would be accumulating wealth again. It's like that anywhere. Most people make poor decisions about money. That's the plain and simple truth and we see it everyday with people we know or with whom we work. Some save for the rainy day and others spend like there is no tomorrow. The Bill Gates' of this world did not make their money by twisting someone's arm. They developed a product that people want. Just like the Red Bull people in Thailand. There is no problem taxing the wealthy a little more to help fund programs but for the most part the stupid people will still be stupid with money. Most Thais cannot seem to budget for a month let alone a life time.

This is a wonderfully Victorian era concept that is still with us. I completely agree with you. After all, there really is no point in letting people have money if they are going to waste it. There is also no point in educating people as then they want things and most of them are too stupid to know what are the right things to want. Also, people that are not well off are that way because they are lazy or stupid or both. I like this ideal as I was smart enough to choose well off parents that sent me to a good school and my connections got me a good job. I don't really work much now, although I like to kid myself I do, but whatever happens I need to make money the smart way by getting others to do all the hard work for me. If I had been really smart I would have gone into banking, after all this is where the real theft of money can be held up as good honest work. What I dread is the thought of all those ageing people that are going to try and get monies out of me. They are a drain on the system and should be put in workhouses and helped along to an early demise by increasing the cost of medication beyond their reach. In addition all those stupid kids from poor families need to be taught the real lessons of life - that hard work is good for you. At say twelve all kids should undergo an assets and ability test. If they fall out of the top two percent then they need to be put to work. The training of these kids is a cost so for the first few years they need only be given food and shelter. Spare time is wasted on these people so they might as well work eighteen hours a day and seven days a week so they don't get lazy in their ways. The really great thing is that because I have been able so accumulate assets I can be really smug whenever I meet someone that is finding the going tough. There is nothing so satisfying as crowing about how much better I am than someone else.

Have a nice day folks - if you can afford it!

[PREM-R]

The problem with all this talk of wealth inequality and wealth redistribution is that it doesn't work. First off if all the wealth in Thailand was redistributed tomorrow and everyone had an equal share, in a year most would be broke and a few would have made prudent decisions and would be accumulating wealth again. It's like that anywhere. Most people make poor decisions about money. That's the plain and simple truth and we see it everyday with people we know or with whom we work. Some save for the rainy day and others spend like there is no tomorrow. The Bill Gates' of this world did not make their money by twisting someone's arm. They developed a product that people want. Just like the Red Bull people in Thailand. There is no problem taxing the wealthy a little more to help fund programs but for the most part the stupid people will still be stupid with money. Most Thais cannot seem to budget for a month let alone a life time.

This is a wonderfully Victorian era concept that is still with us. I completely agree with you. After all, there really is no point in letting people have money if they are going to waste it. There is also no point in educating people as then they want things and most of them are too stupid to know what are the right things to want. Also, people that are not well off are that way because they are lazy or stupid or both. I like this ideal as I was smart enough to choose well off parents that sent me to a good school and my connections got me a good job. I don't really work much now, although I like to kid myself I do, but whatever happens I need to make money the smart way by getting others to do all the hard work for me. If I had been really smart I would have gone into banking, after all this is where the real theft of money can be held up as good honest work. What I dread is the thought of all those ageing people that are going to try and get monies out of me. They are a drain on the system and should be put in workhouses and helped along to an early demise by increasing the cost of medication beyond their reach. In addition all those stupid kids from poor families need to be taught the real lessons of life - that hard work is good for you. At say twelve all kids should undergo an assets and ability test. If they fall out of the top two percent then they need to be put to work. The training of these kids is a cost so for the first few years they need only be given food and shelter. Spare time is wasted on these people so they might as well work eighteen hours a day and seven days a week so they don't get lazy in their ways. The really great thing is that because I have been able so accumulate assets I can be really smug whenever I meet someone that is finding the going tough. There is nothing so satisfying as crowing about how much better I am than someone else.

Have a nice day folks - if you can afford it!

"What I dread is the thought of all those ageing people that are going to try and get monies out of me. They are a drain on the system and should be put in workhouses and helped along to an early demise by increasing the cost of medication beyond their reach."

This would be the American way, wouldn't it?

[3NUMBAS]

how true .there's unlikely to be generous Thai philanthropists leaving their wealth for the good of their countrymen .they would sooner trample them into the dirt with a large boot or a Benz bumper .greedy selfish and unprincipled to a man

[kennypowers]

The editorial does fine sticking to Thailand, but why switch to Zuckerberg, Gates, and Buffet without calling out some of Thailand's own ultra super high net worth people? Forbes publishes a list of Thailand's wealthiest- it is public. A quick review of Thailandtatler every month would identify more. The Thai press should ask them how much they're giving and how much aid to Father Joe's Klong Toey Slum, the poor rice farmers, how many hospital facilities and schools they set up in Isaan and/or other deprived depressed provinces and areas of Thailand?

What massive Thai charities have the ultra wealthy of Thailand set up? When was the last time you saw any news of Thai giving and charity? These are the same folks who want Thailand to be run by a "people's council" which they select. At least some of them have used their wealth and power to flaunt the law and buy their way out of criminal activity, plunder the land, and manipulating the Thai public. It's public information. The Thai press should stop playing the charade and call them out. That's the way Thailand would change when it establishes a culture of charity and giving instead of corruption and self service.

There's a breakdown here of those Thais who made the Forbes list last year. Some of these guys may be who the article is referring to in part. http://www.thethailandlife.com/super-rich-thailand

[Thai at Heart]

This editorial, hiding under the title of When the rich fix the rules, the poor lose, is politically motivated with a political agenda to mislead the rice farmers who voted for the PTP led government and those who did not.

The problems faced by rice farmers highlighted in this editorial is a result of late payments. It however, has shown us the other side of the story. It is that the farmers need the rice pledging scheme without which their workers are having to deal with higher living costs that the minimum-wage rise does not cover.

The problem is not the rice pledging scheme, but disruptive politics and the enforcement of laws. The farmers themselves have to bear some responsibilities. They should be the party to help the government in rooting up corrupt practices, improving its management and not submitting to the illegal demands of some unscrupulous business operators and factory owners.

There is no sign that PTP led government is not fulfilling its election promises and that the voters are being lured by politicians' promises. PTPs predecessor TRT, was the first party in Thai political history that fulfill all its election promises. The first party to implement policies that its oppositions accused as populists policies to buy votes. The success of TRT policies gave rise to Thaksins popularity and the use of him now seen as has created a power base not completely beholden to the entrenched establishment. It has also created Thaksinism or Thaksin regime and used by oppositions of the PTP led government in their struggle for power.

Increasingly, countries are treating food securities as part of their national security and defense. Detail information during negotiation and the outcome agreement after being ratified by respective countrys legal system on food import and export are treated as State secrets. Those who has or wants access to the information have to follow and abide by the law of the country.

Thailand is in a very disadvantage position to negotiate and compete with any country especially on matters related to food security. No country will be willing to negotiate with us if we do not amend our respective laws to counter the challenges from the changing environment and volatile international politics.

Thailand is changing. The average age of the farmers is increasing and the head count left in farming is falling.

In 20 years time it will change even more.

This intervention is in some way a compassion payment. Without it, a lot would be in absolute poverty. Many farmers have little or no education, their kids have left and they live hand to mouth.

Where would anyone have them go or do what?, the system implemented though is a joke. I would prefer it better if they just drove directly to every poor farmers house and gave him a pension of 10k baht per month. It would at least get where it needed to go.

[Trembly]

The often criticised rice subsidy scheme in Thailand was a commendable attempt to move wealth back to the poor. Where it went wrong is that it relied on borrowed money instead of taking it directly from the rich.

For such a scheme it was incredibly effective in making a handful of big-time rice dealers / middlemen (who were already rich) and designated buyers (also already rich) in the G2G follow-up incredibly rich in an incredibly short space of time.

They even got paid on time. Incredible.

What an incredible coincidence that they were all incredibly well connected.

If you would like to examine the facts as dredged up from publicly available records by independent journalists (and you can read Thai) I will happily provide links.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Trembly

[dominique355]

The question for Thailand is: Who are the rich and who are the poor.

Many people would immediately reply that the Bangkok middle class and "elite" are the rich people and the Isan farmers are the poor ones.

My personal observation is quite different. I have been in Isan repeatedly in the last 6 month and I am amazed how well off this "poor" region is. No potholes in any roads, all well kept divided 4 lane roads, beautiful big houses everywhere, new hospitals with all modern equipment, only new cars etc.

Mobile phone and Internet connection are 2 to 3 times better (faster) than Bangkok, new bank barnches opening at every corner...signs of wealth everywhere.

And no, I wa not just in Khon Kaen and Udon, I was also outside big centers, like Selaphum (outside Roi Et) and Nakon Phanom.

So please stop pretending that the poor farmers from Isan are revolting against the rich elite in Bangkok. That is simply not true. They are not the poor ones.

I have also visited other provinces and regions, like the East (Chantaburi, Trad) where I can see a totally different image: poorly maintained roads, no telecommunication infrastructure, no transportations, no new buildings, schools without teachers and teaching equipment etc. But interesting enough (but then again, maybe not surprising) these provinces have traditionally voted for the Democrates, and therefore have been neglected by the Thaksin governments.

I realize this is a personal observation but it's not a fiction.

[takkatan in the land]

I think the problem is about if you got a pair of balls or just got some silly thoughts in your mind.

I am agree that there are so many old or disabled unlucky people around, we can see them at every corner and I don't want be unfair with those wants whose are in clear disadvantage.

But so much people in thailand are always claiming and doing nothing to change their destiny.

In other countries is much more difficult for locals to start any kind business, permissions, license, control quality, inspections, etc.

Here it looks like every single thai can put a piece of clothes in the floor and sell something.

In my street there are some hard worker street vendors that they don't even need to work weekends because they have as

much customers they need to get their salaries. The place is always full because they probably do the things properly.

Nothing special just noodles soap. If you wake up early and go to buy to the market, then you prepare and cook all then you can sell and get your day. Probably you will not be rich but you are your own boss.

The problem here is that there some guys are too lazy to do all this and they don't make enough effort to stop being poor, it is easy be crying and beging around or cheating farangs, this one is a good business too.

[rijb]

Yes, I agree, something needs to be done, all around the world, but Democracy has only fed this disease of the rich getting richer and the poor being used like slave labor, around the world. Communism has failed as well.

Countries, that seem to do well, and where the standard of living is fairly high, for everyeone, are the Scandinavian Nations, where they have some good social programs and more innovative ways, to use their resources (e.g. selective logging )

Personally, I lean towards Nationalism, with a benevolent monarch or dictator. That way, a Country can isolate itself a little bit, from the global economy and pick and choose, who it wants to trade with. Under a Nationalist system, the Country can also take full control of it's own resources (oil, power, water, etc.) and choose it's own destiny.

Laws can be created and enacted, that benefit everyone, helping the poor, help themselves and also rewarding hard work and innovation.

Corruption can eventually be wiped out, with an iron fist, as long as the people on top, are not corrupt themselves. This is the biggest challenge, we face around the World. Corruption on top. Self interest, above the interest of the Nations, they lead.

Some things, should become basic human rights, everywhere. Things like healthcare (including basic dental care, which is part of health) and education. A Nation, that does not allow it's people to be property educated, will never go far. Innovation needs to be brought into the education system. Questions and new thought, need to be encouraged, if we are to move ahead, on a National and/or Global level.

What is happening, here in Thailand right now, is two sides fighting for their spot on the trough. Neither is much better than the other. Both sides are financed by the Ultra-Rich. Both sides want to keep the poor, poor and work as slaves for them.

Once in a while, little splinter groups, join up with one or the other side, hoping that change will make things better and hoping to have a bit of influence in future policy making, but that is about as far as it goes...hope.

Meanwhile, things like spousal abuse, rape, extortion, slavery, poverty, police and political corruption, along with murder, go on unchecked.

I think your issue(s) has more to do with capitalism than democracy.

However, your repugnant post does prove that ignorance is not restricted to the poor and uneducated.

Edited January 23, 2014 by rijb

[PJcm]

There is nothing wrong with people being rich if they have obtained their money honestly. If the poor want to more go out and work for it. Form unions to presure for better pay and working conditions.

Oh and don't sell your vote to corrupt polititians . It keeps you poor.

In this country if you are rich it is because you were born rich, or a member of the sino-thai merchants who made their money the old fashioned way; through corrupt officials. If all politicians are corrupt why shouldn't I sell my vote, are you giving me money for my daily constitutional down at the bamboo hut. The hubris of the expat.

[phycokiller]

That is exactly what is happening today in Thailand, The rich and old power structure are mad at the present government for its "populist programs" spreading part of Thailand's wealth with the less advantaged people of the country, the 30 baht health care insurance, the rice pledge-ing program, the loans to large and small villages, the improvement of infrastructure in rural Thailand, etc.

The rich see this as the money that is rightfully theirs is being spent on the poor/rural/farmers,population of the country, all the attacks on Yingluck except for a few, Amnesty bill, a fully elected Senate has to do with the "populist" policies enacted since 2001, and also by the present government. The yellow posters on TV decry the wasteful spending (populist program aimed at spreading the wealth to the other 99% of the country that needs that help).

They have resorted to use "undemocratic" methods as they are unable to win via Democratic free and equal election!

They are attacking one of their own Thaskin S. who dared defy the old powers that be, and shared the wealth with the rural population of Thailand! They arranged a military coup that forced Thaskin into exile, and are now concerned that he had awakened the sleeping Rural population that now knows the power of their vote.

Thaksin for what ever reasons he started TRT, which I think was to help enrich himself more, awakened the sleeping rural population that are now demanding their share of the Thai Pie!

There is no going back to the old business as usual that the rich are willing to tear Thailand apart for. However this current problem turns out it is not the end but the bargaining of the new born again Thailand!

Cheers

,its the middleclass that pays the taxes in all countries, thats why the people in BKK want some say about whats done with it and why they are protesting. you can be pretty sure that the only place the 1% are spreading their wealth is off shore bank accounts, the taksins included

Edited January 23, 2014 by phycokiller

[uty6543]

There is nothing wrong with people being rich if they have obtained their money honestly. If the poor want to more go out and work for it. Form unions to presure for better pay and working conditions.

Oh and don't sell your vote to corrupt polititians . It keeps you poor.

In this country if you are rich it is because you were born rich, or a member of the sino-thai merchants who made their money the old fashioned way; through corrupt officials. If all politicians are corrupt why shouldn't I sell my vote, are you giving me money for my daily constitutional down at the bamboo hut. The hubris of the expat.

Well as you are not Thai you you do not have a vote to sell. But if you had a vote to sell it is a bad deal. You get 500 baht for your vote and that politician wants his money back so he will steal from the tax you pay much more than 500 baht he gives you. He'll promise you that your school children can all have a tablet computer and not give it to you but you can be sure the money has gone somewhere. He'll tell you he'll pay a lot of money for your rice and then not pay you but again the money has gone somewhere. IMO there are very few good politicians so it is a hard choice but selling your vote to the highest bidder is a bad deal.

Edited January 23, 2014 by uty6543

[mojorison]

The question for Thailand is: Who are the rich and who are the poor.

Many people would immediately reply that the Bangkok middle class and "elite" are the rich people and the Isan farmers are the poor ones.

My personal observation is quite different. I have been in Isan repeatedly in the last 6 month and I am amazed how well off this "poor" region is. No potholes in any roads, all well kept divided 4 lane roads, beautiful big houses everywhere, new hospitals with all modern equipment, only new cars etc.

Mobile phone and Internet connection are 2 to 3 times better (faster) than Bangkok, new bank barnches opening at every corner...signs of wealth everywhere.

And no, I wa not just in Khon Kaen and Udon, I was also outside big centers, like Selaphum (outside Roi Et) and Nakon Phanom.

So please stop pretending that the poor farmers from Isan are revolting against the rich elite in Bangkok. That is simply not true. They are not the poor ones.

I have also visited other provinces and regions, like the East (Chantaburi, Trad) where I can see a totally different image: poorly maintained roads, no telecommunication infrastructure, no transportations, no new buildings, schools without teachers and teaching equipment etc. But interesting enough (but then again, maybe not surprising) these provinces have traditionally voted for the Democrates, and therefore have been neglected by the Thaksin governments.

I realize this is a personal observation but it's not a fiction.

Thailand is well known to have the wealthiest poor in the world. It also has a realm of the wealthiest people in the world. These people can do more in the way of philanthropy, as beloved (respected) as the wealthy are, very few of them give anything back to the country other than a few token gestures. Bill Gates is eradicating malaria in Africa single-handedly for Gods sake. Give some back to the people who made you. Add a decent tax structure to actually tax the wealthy appropriately to benefit the majority. Company tax increases, sharp increases on personal income tax for high income earners, and even higher tariffs on luxury goods. Pretty basic economics. The democrats can't win an election because right wing policies will continue to be unpopular with the low income majority. The Thais don't like to pay taxes of any sort... but if the Democrats turn full circle, and make key policy changes they could win an election.

[tilac2]

The question for Thailand is: Who are the rich and who are the poor.

Many people would immediately reply that the Bangkok middle class and "elite" are the rich people and the Isan farmers are the poor ones.

My personal observation is quite different. I have been in Isan repeatedly in the last 6 month and I am amazed how well off this "poor" region is. No potholes in any roads, all well kept divided 4 lane roads, beautiful big houses everywhere, new hospitals with all modern equipment, only new cars etc.

Mobile phone and Internet connection are 2 to 3 times better (faster) than Bangkok, new bank barnches opening at every corner...signs of wealth everywhere.

And no, I wa not just in Khon Kaen and Udon, I was also outside big centers, like Selaphum (outside Roi Et) and Nakon Phanom.

So please stop pretending that the poor farmers from Isan are revolting against the rich elite in Bangkok. That is simply not true. They are not the poor ones.

I have also visited other provinces and regions, like the East (Chantaburi, Trad) where I can see a totally different image: poorly maintained roads, no telecommunication infrastructure, no transportations, no new buildings, schools without teachers and teaching equipment etc. But interesting enough (but then again, maybe not surprising) these provinces have traditionally voted for the Democrates, and therefore have been neglected by the Thaksin governments.

I realize this is a personal observation but it's not a fiction.

You wrote: "So please stop pretending that the poor farmers from Isan are revolting against the rich elite in Bangkok. That is simply not true. They are not the poor ones."

Thank you for your interesting observations, which I think show clearly why most countries rely on statistical bureaus for their information, rather than on foreigners with axes to grind driving round and then posting misleading, biased nonsense on websites.

According to the NESDB in late 2013 the two eastern provinces you mention (Trat, Chantaburi) are at about the Thai provincial average (c. $5300) for gross provincial product per capita; and incidentally the adjacent province Rayong is way above that, being the richest province in Thailand at over $40,000 pppc.

On the other hand, the northeast (Isaan) with a third of Thailand's population has overall less than a third of the Thai provincial average for provincial product per capita, less than $1600.

I would suggest that your observations are coloured by extreme bias. The northeast is easily the poorest region in Thailand, followed by the north, and your attempt to portray the situation as otherwise is pure propaganda. The presence of new infrastructure, such as roads, is misleading. Of course there are improvements in the northeast, but these improvements are piecemeal, and are being undermined at every opportunity by rich people like Suthep, in Bangkok and elsewhere, who consider the Isaan people to be second-class.

The fundamental issue in Thailand is just as portrayed in some of the international media - a poor N/NE, which is exploited by a wealthy Bangkok elite. In such circumstances, sensible politicians would try to help their less fortunate brethren in order to mitigate the causes of conflict, and thus the nation would proceed and develop (Thaksin's approach); stupid politicians and web-posters try to conceal the divisions, thereby angering the impoverished and encouraging future conflict.

Edited January 23, 2014 by tilac2

[tilac2]

That is exactly what is happening today in Thailand, The rich and old power structure are mad at the present government for its "populist programs" spreading part of Thailand's wealth with the less advantaged people of the country, the 30 baht health care insurance, the rice pledge-ing program, the loans to large and small villages, the improvement of infrastructure in rural Thailand, etc.

The rich see this as the money that is rightfully theirs is being spent on the poor/rural/farmers,population of the country, all the attacks on Yingluck except for a few, Amnesty bill, a fully elected Senate has to do with the "populist" policies enacted since 2001, and also by the present government. The yellow posters on TV decry the wasteful spending (populist program aimed at spreading the wealth to the other 99% of the country that needs that help).

They have resorted to use "undemocratic" methods as they are unable to win via Democratic free and equal election!

They are attacking one of their own Thaskin S. who dared defy the old powers that be, and shared the wealth with the rural population of Thailand! They arranged a military coup that forced Thaskin into exile, and are now concerned that he had awakened the sleeping Rural population that now knows the power of their vote.

Thaksin for what ever reasons he started TRT, which I think was to help enrich himself more, awakened the sleeping rural population that are now demanding their share of the Thai Pie!

There is no going back to the old business as usual that the rich are willing to tear Thailand apart for. However this current problem turns out it is not the end but the bargaining of the new born again Thailand!

Cheers

,its the middleclass that pays the taxes in all countries, thats why the people in BKK want some say about whats done with it and why they are protesting. you can be pretty sure that the only place the 1% are spreading their wealth is off shore bank accounts, the taksins included

What ARE you talking about, PhycoK? You say that "the people in BKK want some say about whats done with it and why they are protesting".

But the Bangkok people are already receiving over 70% of Thai public spending even though they are less than a fifth of the Thai population.

You people have really got to stop believing the "hard luck stories" of these Bangkok elite and their gullible followers. The Bangkok people are spongeing off the poor of the north/northeast and obviously they want that to continue for evermore: it must be great to have a horde of impoverished workers who they can get to do the menial chores!

Mr Suthep is spreading a lot of misinformation to help this campaign along: he seems to be fooling some of you! Or is it rather that many of the foreigners in Thailand want to have cheap, subservient workers to exploit?

[englishoak]

High class, pay none of the taxes make all the decisions, do none of the work

Middle class, pay all of the taxes make none of the decisions do most of the work

The poor, just there to scare the shit out of the middle class and do the jobs others wont.