Former chief judge says state of emergency declaration unlawful: Thailand

[thesetat2013]

No! As caretaker she has no authority to make rulings as pm. Also as stated: Nothing changed in the way people were protesting. That was their excuse for doing this. A few acts or terrorism does not grant authority to invoke SOE.ridiculous to believe it should have been done. The thais constitutiob grants the thai people to hold peaceful demonstrations. One other point: Threatening is not considered a violent act and for the most part this is all the protesters have done that i have seen or read about.

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[pookiki]

All I know is that you can argue all you want over the term 'caretaker' and their inherent authority. The other alternative is to let the situation spin entirely out of control and turn everything over to the 'undertakers'.

[Thait Spot]

So who has the authority to restore order in the event of civil disobedience? Only the army? Interesting he didn't say.

Please note that since the trumpeting and fanfare of the state of emergency that not one single thing has changed.

Restore order my @rse

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[Thait Spot]

This mean that they will continue performing their duties until the new cabinet is formed. It does not mean that they still have authority to perform duties under the Constitution

How can they perform their duties if they don't have authority to perform their duties?

How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

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[Thait Spot]

stay retired - nothing worse than someone who "used to" be something start meddling when there day is over

Like Thaksin?

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[pookiki]

Another interesting question is how can an 'appointed' Senator who has been clearly relieved of his/her duties when the parliament was dissolved have standing to petition the CC? Seems like the CC will take a case from just about anyone! Anyone know where the queue is?

[pookiki]

So who has the authority to restore order in the event of civil disobedience? Only the army? Interesting he didn't say.

Please note that since the trumpeting and fanfare of the state of emergency that not one single thing has changed.

Restore order my @rse

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Didn't imply that order had been restored. Just want to know who has the ultimate authority in the learned judge's view.

[JRSoul]

So who has the authority to restore order in the event of civil disobedience? Only the army? Interesting he didn't say.

Please note that since the trumpeting and fanfare of the state of emergency that not one single thing has changed.

Restore order my @rse

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Didn't imply that order had been restored. Just want to know who has the ultimate authority in the learned judge's view.

I'm guessing you mean when there is a REAL emergency rather than a desire to create an impression of one.

[icommunity]

The former Chief Judge based his opinion on political considerations rather than justice, securities, securities intelligence reports.

The Constitutional Court's earlier ruled that the anti-government protests were peaceful and constitutional are now illegitimate and irrelevant because events that unfold reveal that they are violence and aimed at creating more violence to seize power from a democratically elected government with the King as the Head of State.

[ggold]

Typical bias yellow judge nonsense. Part of the democratic reforms proposed by both sides should include purging the bias judiciary, EC, "checks and balances" etc and replace them with neutral, objective people.

But but, that is what the PTP wanted to do purge the bias Judiciary and replace it with yes men! Just because you don't like what they say doesn't mean they are biased. Besides the way things are it seems even the politicains don't know thier own constitution!

Their legal advisers are certainly useless. Blunder after blunder after blunder.

I mean the politicians, they are the ones claiming they can or cannot do something under the constitution. It is then left to the Judiciary to decide what can or cannot be done. I doubt PTP sought legal advice when they enacted the rice scam!

[pookiki]

So who has the authority to restore order in the event of civil disobedience? Only the army? Interesting he didn't say.

Please note that since the trumpeting and fanfare of the state of emergency that not one single thing has changed.

Restore order my @rse

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Didn't imply that order had been restored. Just want to know who has the ultimate authority in the learned judge's view.

I'm guessing you mean when there is a REAL emergency rather than a desire to create an impression of one.

Unfortunately like so many other people on TVF there is a problem with understanding simple sentence construction and trying to ascribe a political point of view to everything. When the coup finally arrives, there will be no more need for guessing at all. And I'm not guessing that there will be one. There will be and that was the plan from the beginning.

Edited January 23, 2014 by pookiki

[whybother]

Another interesting question is how can an 'appointed' Senator who has been clearly relieved of his/her duties when the parliament was dissolved have standing to petition the CC? Seems like the CC will take a case from just about anyone! Anyone know where the queue is?

Actually, the senators are all still senators. Senate elections happen at a different time to the lower house elections, and Senators are elected/appointed for 6 year terms. The last Senate election was in March 2008, so the next one is due in March this year!

[ianf]

Typical bias yellow judge nonsense. Part of the democratic reforms proposed by both sides should include purging the bias judiciary, EC, "checks and balances" etc and replace them with neutral, objective people.

How do you know this judge is 'bias' (sic) as you claim. He may be looking at this quite independently. I don't know. Nor do you.

Did you mean 'biased'?

[Thait Spot]

Another interesting question is how can an 'appointed' Senator who has been clearly relieved of his/her duties when the parliament was dissolved have standing to petition the CC? Seems like the CC will take a case from just about anyone! Anyone know where the queue is?

I think you're making this up. The senate has not been dissolved.

Secondly, any member of the public can join the "queue"

Thirdly it makes no reference to taking the case to the CC

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[Thait Spot]

That's just silly. So according to that interpretation of the constitution, a caretaker government has in fact, zero authority to do anything?

They are authorised to continue in a minimal role (necessities) only. Minding the shop, basically.

Apart from access to the stock and cash register

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[pookiki]

Another interesting question is how can an 'appointed' Senator who has been clearly relieved of his/her duties when the parliament was dissolved have standing to petition the CC? Seems like the CC will take a case from just about anyone! Anyone know where the queue is?

Actually, the senators are all still senators. Senate elections happen at a different time to the lower house elections, and Senators are elected/appointed for 6 year terms. The last Senate election was in March 2008, so the next one is due in March this year!

Not sure about this but if I accept your argument on its face, what is the duty of the Senate under a 'caretaker' government? Do you think the EC will organize one election while trying to delay another?

My apologies. I got off 'topic' on this thread. Won't talk about the CC anymore here.

Edited January 23, 2014 by pookiki

[soundman]

Bickering session and libellous posts removed from view.

Do not go pointing the finger at individuals with un-founded allegations, especially ex supreme court judges.

[GrantSmith]

Just a quick question - as I can't find the answer using conventional methods - has the SoE been published in the Royal Gazette?

[siampolee]

Spalpeen post # 7.

Perhaps this eminent retired judge could offer an opinion on the constitutional status of seditious attempts to overthrow an elected government and replace it with an unelected junta.

At last someone else has come to actually see and understand the Thaksin clans plans for the establishment of a new ruling political family dynasty (Dictatorship)

[whybother]

Another interesting question is how can an 'appointed' Senator who has been clearly relieved of his/her duties when the parliament was dissolved have standing to petition the CC? Seems like the CC will take a case from just about anyone! Anyone know where the queue is?

Actually, the senators are all still senators. Senate elections happen at a different time to the lower house elections, and Senators are elected/appointed for 6 year terms. The last Senate election was in March 2008, so the next one is due in March this year!

Not sure about this but if I accept your argument on its face, what is the duty of the Senate under a 'caretaker' government? Do you think the EC will organize one election while trying to delay another?

It wasn't an argument. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Thailand#Senate

I don't know what their duty is now. If there is going to be a Senate election, there should be nominations for appointed senators happening about now. There probably should be registrations for elected senator candidates happening now too.

[whybother]

Just a quick question - as I can't find the answer using conventional methods - has the SoE been published in the Royal Gazette?

Does it need to be?

[bigbamboo]

That's just silly. So according to that interpretation of the constitution, a caretaker government has in fact, zero authority to do anything?

No, it just doesn't have the authority to issue decrees that can influence an election.

[spirit47]

This is absolutely correct, for all the clear and sober reasons stated. The administration is behaving unlawfully, and the Thai media - as if it isn't restricted enough - is now being given the Kim Jung Un manual for friendly broadcasts. This would mean no Cambodian mercenaries stories. No more narratives of such a funded insurgency. No more narratives of opposition or opinion that does not coordinate with the administration's narrative and interpretation of events. But the main argument outlined here by this judge is key. As this is officially a caretaker administration, they do not have the authority to administer a state of emergency in Robert Mugabe fashion on the eve of an election.

I think, they want kicked off by court. Than they come back with a new party again. They still have a network and broadcasting...

[animatic]

Does the caretaker prime minister have the authority to unilaterally resume being an official prime minister without being sworn in by HM? According to alot of forum members her brother did have that authority, so surely his sister should also? Or was the coup removing an imposter prime minister that had no authority to be in that position?

The later answer is more correct.

Thaksin was expired as ACTING Caretaker PM.

He went to the palace and returned with a "no comment".

He was NOT given the position after his 'time dependent term' expired.

Though the laws on this point were not clear; What happens when a caretaker times out?

He then quit and his deputy took over the job.

A week later Thaksin unilaterally took the PM job back.

He was not sworn in to a second caretaker term, or as PM.

One thing was clear a PM must be sworn in, and resigning and having it accepted, restarts that process

Thaksin then did not say he was Caretaker PM he publicly called himself PM.

He then went to the UN in New York saying he was "Prime Minister Of Thailand",

to give a speech, that he effectively did not have the authority to give in that name.

There were also comments prior to departure he would create an SOE or Marshall Law.

There was a coup to remove him.

His 'legend' always says he was the PM removed from office.

But the reality is he was an expired caretaker PM,

and could be seen as acting as an usurper of the PM position.

Edited January 23, 2014 by animatic

[GrantSmith]

Just a quick question - as I can't find the answer using conventional methods - has the SoE been published in the Royal Gazette?

Does it need to be?

Apparently according to Section 14 of the SoE Act BE 2548 there's a couple of i's that need to be dotted and t's that need to be crossed...

[webfact]

RT @tulsathit: The law says "the PM, with Cabinet approval", can issue emergency decree. Which makes it debatable if caretaker govt can do it.

[taony]

Does the caretaker prime minister have the authority to unilaterally resume being an official prime minister without being sworn in by HM? According to alot of forum members her brother did have that authority, so surely his sister should also? Or was the coup removing an imposter prime minister that had no authority to be in that position?

The later answer is more correct.

Thaksin was expired as ACTING Caretaker PM.

He went to the palace and returned with a "no comment".

He was NOT given the position after his 'time dependent term' expired.

Though the laws on this point were not clear; What happens when a caretaker times out?

He then quit and his deputy took over the job.

A week later Thaksin unilaterally took the PM job back.

He was not sworn in to a second caretaker term, or as PM.

One thing was clear a PM must be sworn in, and resigning and having it accepted, restarts that process

Thaksin then did not say he was Caretaker PM he publicly called himself PM.

He then went to the UN in New York saying he was "Prime Minister Of Thailand",

to give a speech, that he effectively did not have the authority to give in that name.

There were also comments prior to departure he would create an SOE or Marshall Law.

There was a coup to remove him.

His 'legend' always says he was the PM removed from office.

But the reality is he was an expired caretaker PM,

and could be seen as acting as an usurper of the PM position.

He was quite the fool to go to New York under those circumstances.

[LadPhrao123]

Thaksin was expired as ACTING Caretaker PM.

He went to the palace and returned with a "no comment".

He was NOT given the position after his 'time dependent term' expired.

Though the laws on this point were not clear; What happens when a caretaker times out?

He then quit and his deputy took over the job.

A week later Thaksin unilaterally took the PM job back.

He was not sworn in to a second caretaker term, or as PM.

One thing was clear a PM must be sworn in, and resigning and having it accepted, restarts that process

Thaksin then did not say he was Caretaker PM he publicly called himself PM.

He then went to the UN in New York saying he was "Prime Minister Of Thailand",

to give a speech, that he effectively did not have the authority to give in that name.

There were also comments prior to departure he would create an SOE or Marshall Law.

There was a coup to remove him.

His 'legend' always says he was the PM removed from office.

But the reality is he was an expired caretaker PM,

and could be seen as acting as an usurper of the PM position.

Excellent post on the historical aspects of Thaksin's removal. Can you provide more on the events leading up to "Thaksin was expired as acting Caretaker PM." ? Or a link to an unbiased source of information on same? thanks in advance

[Robby nz]

I have been told by someone who has seen and read the declaration as circulated among the protesters that it was signed by Yingluck as Prime Minister.

That is ; she wrote prime minister under her signature rather than caretaker prime minister.

That in itself would make it illegal.

[chainarong]

A very good point Judge, interpretation dear Watson interpretation.