Vote buying 'not decisive factor in an election'

[edwinchester]

The idea that its 200 baht (as opposed to free healthcare, student & SME loans, infrastructure investment, subsidised fuel etc) that decides these peoples votes is ridiculous. To see it spouted out here ad nauseam by the same dozen posters is so boring and ignorant of how rural minds think.

Populist politics is the same world over, people vote for what benefits them most.

There are strong cultural aspects to vote buying in Thailand that you have not considered. You're also assuming that 'rural people' are bereft of morals - that they would take someone's money and turn their back on them.

You're a bit naive if you think politicians do this for nothing.

I have mentioned before that my wifes family are Dem supporters and take money from them when it's offered. They also take from other candidates when there is the chance as does every single person I know here that gets a chance too. What they do however, in my experience at least, is vote exactly the way they want to be it red, yellow etc.

[dominique355]

Perhaps we first have to agree on what is considered as "Vote buying".

It's not just the handing out of 200 or 500 baht days before the election. Vote-buying is IMO much more. I take my in-laws as an example. This family has always voted for the Democrats, but not this time. One member got a governement subsidy for her new car and - openly admitted that she will now vote for PT, who gave her that "present".

Clearly the government's Firt-Time-Car-Owner program as an example had no deeper benefit for the country, except making the recipients favoring the governemnt. I call that "vote buying" and I know it has an influence on the election.

Other populist programs have not only the same effect but also clearly the same purpose: Vote buying.

And please don't tell me, they all did it. That may be true, but does that make it right? And, to get back to the PO, it certainly has an effect on the election, I believe a decisive effect.

[diceq]

some people on here are just BRAIN DEAD..I have seen for years the vote buying here...it has NOTHING to do with health care blah blah blah ...its the colour of money plain and simple...1 family can get 3,000+ baht for their votes that is all they think about that minute of that day...WAKE UP <deleted>

So many posters claim they have seen it. Yet no one has bothered to record the incident on video.

What's the point of paying a family 3000 baht if the vote is secret anyways? And do the math. How much money would they have to spend on each election if what you're saying is true?

It's a bizarre claim without any proof. And then you call me brain dead for not believing in it.

[bunnydrops]

Well, I don't have it on film. Most those running pay something, so I am not sure if loyalty has anything to do with it, or even the amount. BUT the winner of the last local election promised to give another 1000 baht if she won----

[kikoman]

Wrong, in to many small villages it is all that matters

They sell to the highest offer

Too many people in Thailand are not educated on who they should vote for

They do not know and or understand the issues

Your repeated attempts to brand people as "uneducated" is an indication that you have no other factual defence and you repeat the big lie, I often wondered how people that grew up in Democratic countries, favor the Bangkok rich elite line of reasoning,

I find it is in their own personal prejudise embracing the Bangkok elite class system, and that the Farmers do not vote our way then they must be uneducated!

Why has this not been an issue in the past (prior to 2001), because they voted the right way!

Your reasoning is clueless, I live in a small village!

Cheers

Edited January 25, 2014 by kikoman

[virtualtraveller]

Simplistic point of view. While there is evidence that voters now vote for a party they believe will enrich them for years, rather than line their pocket for day, they also vote along that basis for the most 'successful' local strongman or family - one most likely to align themselves with the govt and be able to lavish the province. So, it's moved on, Thaksin doesn't buy each voter, he buys off whole candidates, he bought off 15 BJT candidates a month ago, who announced en-mass they were switching to Peua Thai. Nuff said.

[NovaBlue05]

I'm sure there are the true believers who fear that Buddha will strike them down from above if they take money and then vote the opposite way.

[ManopY]

The idea that its 200 baht (as opposed to free healthcare, student & SME loans, infrastructure investment, subsidised fuel etc) that decides these peoples votes is ridiculous. To see it spouted out here ad nauseam by the same dozen posters is so boring and ignorant of how rural minds think.

Populist politics is the same world over, people vote for what benefits them most.

...people vote for what benefits them most => like the rice scheme!!!???

They are still waiting them money!

​If you say Populist politics are a standard in democracy!

Then I am against that kind of democracy!!!

It is URGENT to change those standart!!!

Edited January 25, 2014 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[darren84310]

The idea that its 200 baht (as opposed to free healthcare, student & SME loans, infrastructure investment, subsidised fuel etc) that decides these peoples votes is ridiculous. To see it spouted out here ad nauseam by the same dozen posters is so boring and ignorant of how rural minds think.

Populist politics is the same world over, people vote for what benefits them most.

It's more than 200 baht, more like 500 and if vote buying doesn't sway an election, then why do people like Thaksin spend hundreds of millions of baht each time he wants to win an election or hold a protest if they were going to vote for him anyway???

Why would he or anyone do that????

I do agree that the rich here in Thailand are particularly arrogant and hypocritical, but this whole demonstration in Bangkok now is not about the rich, it's about the average working Thai with a reasonable enough education to make a decent decision. Who is not going to be swayed by 500 baht.

[Nowhereman60]

Anyone with enough common sense knows vote buying is not a big issue. But it's just one of the many excuses the anti-government people are using to state there claim of reform. Reform the courts should be the first thing on the table along with the police and the 2008 Constitution .

[ManopY]

Vote buying may not be a decisive factor but it is a big part of the problem!

Something else that is a big part of the problem is as follow:

I have 2 other brothers and 1 sister who are in the same "Tabien Baan" (house registration).

No one of them EVER voted!

At the last National election I went to the "voting boot" a little late (nearly closed).

I gave my ID card to the officer to register and I was VERY SURPRISED to see that my 2 brothers and my sister had already voted!

After finish, I called them to ask if they came to vote and as I expected none of them came to do it!!!

So, what do you think of this??? => Not decisive factor in an election!!!???

[pkspeaker]

Well then there's vote buying in the US too because we also have farm subsidies, the republicans support farm subsidies and high military spending-which directly benefits their base.

BTW there was an interesting letter written to the BKK post during this crises..as far as entitlement programs, under the Yingluck administration - Bangkok gets 14:1 vs the north in entitlements, the south gets 2:1 .. including support for rubber farmers.. so why does Yingluck get so few votes in Bangkok and the south when she is doing more 'vote-buying' in these areas then she is in the north?

Alot of these people in the rural area's continue to vote for PT because the elites are calling them stupid and unsophesticated and they are afraid these people that show so much contempt toward them will take away what the TRT/PPP/PT has gven them..if your poor and have a heart condition and only make 10,000B a month in salary, your are dependent on the universal health care that TRT instituted,

If the Democrats had just campaigned in the north and built alliances and offered better programs we would have a functioning democracy, instead they have taken this anti-democratic route where they depend on military and judicial coups to win power and we're stuck bouncing from one crises to the next.

It's vote buying with populist policies when the people in power use policies such as the Rice Scheme (at taxpayers expense) to directly benefit their supporters (in theory), something that the opposition cannot do. This happens worldwide however and it's up to the "people" to be able to see through the charade and actually think whether it will benefit them or the country in the long term. Long term thinking (past this moment in time) is not a strong suit of many here.

The actual direct handing over of cash to vote for one party or another goes on on both sides and does have an influence, however less so now than before since people seem to have (somewhat) woken up to the fact that they can take the money from one side and still vote for whoever they want to.

[JRSoul]

some people on here are just BRAIN DEAD..I have seen for years the vote buying here...it has NOTHING to do with health care blah blah blah ...its the colour of money plain and simple...1 family can get 3,000+ baht for their votes that is all they think about that minute of that day...WAKE UP <deleted>

So many posters claim they have seen it. Yet no one has bothered to record the incident on video.

What's the point of paying a family 3000 baht if the vote is secret anyways? And do the math. How much money would they have to spend on each election if what you're saying is true?

It's a bizarre claim without any proof. And then you call me brain dead for not believing in it.

There are many reasons to think you are brain dead. Not the least is expecting criminals to allow themselves to be videoed committing a criminal act which could see them jailed for years. Would you want copies of their ID cards as well, or would video of un-named faceless people passing cash be sufficient?

[pkspeaker]

Manopy-despite your experience, the last election was monitored by the EC and it was monitored internationally; they did not find rampant vote fraud, Yingluck won by a large margin so vote-fraud was simply not a deciding factor, she won a 4 year term, it is less than 2 years later and people are being forced back to the pols.

[transam]

Vote buying happens in local amphur elections too. Offering money for votes is corruption, those going for election regarding anything should be warned that they face imprisonment if using corruption to gain authority.

[ManopY]

Manopy-despite your experience, the last election was monitored by the EC and it was monitored internationally; they did not find rampant vote fraud, Yingluck won by a large margin so vote-fraud was simply not a deciding factor, she won a 4 year term, it is less than 2 years later and people are being forced back to the pols.

I never saw any EC officer in a voting boot!!!

Also, because the language barrier, the culture difference... I am convinced that Thai people can trick the EC officer verry easy!

[edwinchester]

some people on here are just BRAIN DEAD..I have seen for years the vote buying here...it has NOTHING to do with health care blah blah blah ...its the colour of money plain and simple...1 family can get 3,000+ baht for their votes that is all they think about that minute of that day...WAKE UP <deleted>

So many posters claim they have seen it. Yet no one has bothered to record the incident on video.

What's the point of paying a family 3000 baht if the vote is secret anyways? And do the math. How much money would they have to spend on each election if what you're saying is true?

It's a bizarre claim without any proof. And then you call me brain dead for not believing in it.

Here's how it works in our village.

Each candidate has a 'friend' in the village. The friend maybe some pooyai or even the village store owner but they must know most of the people locally. They make it known to the friend that there is so much money available for each vote. The friend then makes it known locally what is available. My wifes friend owns one of the larger shops in the village and seems to know everyone so she always seems to be handing out money for a candidate be it a local or national election. If you are a good friend she will also get you the 300 or 400 bht even if she knows you'll be voting for the opposition!!!

[JRSoul]

Manopy-despite your experience, the last election was monitored by the EC and it was monitored internationally; they did not find rampant vote fraud, Yingluck won by a large margin so vote-fraud was simply not a deciding factor, she won a 4 year term, it is less than 2 years later and people are being forced back to the pols.

For those with a challenged historical perspective, I have 2011, 2012 and 2013 calendars for sale @ only B1000ea. They have the days conveniently crossed off.

Special offer - I will highlight the date of the 2011 election for you. Sorry, no steak knives.

Edited January 25, 2014 by JRSoul

[edwinchester]

Vote buying happens in local amphur elections too. Offering money for votes is corruption, those going for election regarding anything should be warned that they face imprisonment if using corruption to gain authority.

We had a local tessabaan election last year. The winning candidate paid out for about 1500 votes at 3000bht each!!! The money was contributed by the candidate and the others in her 'team'.

As a follow on the winner died a few months later so they organised another election. The previous candidate in 2nd place won the new election despite not offering a single bht.

[kurnell]

If vote buying is so ineffective, then why do they do it?

[haroldc]

Vote buying isn't a decisive factor?

[Melyn]

He makes some very good points but fails to address things such as red shirt villages, partisan village heads, preventing opposition canvassing etc.

Major holes in this

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[JRSoul]

Vote buying happens in local amphur elections too. Offering money for votes is corruption, those going for election regarding anything should be warned that they face imprisonment if using corruption to gain authority.

We had a local tessabaan election last year. The winning candidate paid out for about 1500 votes at 3000bht each!!! The money was contributed by the candidate and the others in her 'team'.

As a follow on the winner died a few months later so they organised another election. The previous candidate in 2nd place won the new election despite not offering a single bht.

B4.5 million for a local council seat? Sounds steep, maybe he was trying to pad his obituary.

[lovetotravel]

The idea that its 200 baht (as opposed to free healthcare, student & SME loans, infrastructure investment, subsidised fuel etc) that decides these peoples votes is ridiculous. To see it spouted out here ad nauseam by the same dozen posters is so boring and ignorant of how rural minds think.

Populist politics is the same world over, people vote for what benefits them most.

100% correct. But it will get some to vote for whomever gave them the money. Not all will take the money and vote for another party. Plus, it's not just the 200 Baht per voter (actually, more in many cases). It's the 50k given to the village headman to ensure votes for a particular party. Strong arm tactics and pressure are not unusual.

Vote buying needs to be stopped, no matter the impact.

[edwinchester]

If vote buying is so ineffective, then why do they do it?

I honestly don't know. In my own experience people take the money and vote for their personal preference anyway. Wifey has almost always taken money at local and national elections. Last time she got money from the PT and Dem candidates. She voted Dem!

I can't see the point at all.

[edwinchester]

Vote buying happens in local amphur elections too. Offering money for votes is corruption, those going for election regarding anything should be warned that they face imprisonment if using corruption to gain authority.

We had a local tessabaan election last year. The winning candidate paid out for about 1500 votes at 3000bht each!!! The money was contributed by the candidate and the others in her 'team'.

As a follow on the winner died a few months later so they organised another election. The previous candidate in 2nd place won the new election despite not offering a single bht.

B4.5 million for a local council seat? Sounds steep, maybe he was trying to pad his obituary.

It was but remember that was split between the whole team, seven in total I seem to remember.

[transam]

Vote buying isn't a decisive factor?

Yes, you are right. Nationwide there must be a vast amount of money ''given'' away, if it didn't make a difference then why pay it. And a question for me is how do they get it back . But yes, I know the answer..........

[SOTIRIOS]

....so the voters that have confessed to selling their votes are......???

....cut the crap......

[Scamper]

For those who are interested, on the introductory page of the Asian Network for Free Elections' website is the following sentence :

" Since it was founded, it has served towards strengthening the democratization of countries such as Sri Lanka, Nepal, Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, East Timor and Indonesia. "

As it was founded in 1997, is one to assume that they have successfully strengthened the democratization of Cambodia, let alone Thailand ? So let's get real here. The fact of the matter is that all these countries hold elections - including Cambodia - that is true. But does anyone seriously think that those processes have been in any way shape or form an example of strengthened democracy ? There are those who zealously support Thaksin and the Yingluck administration - who are just eating this article up.

It's time to smell the coffee.

[binjalin]

BOTH sides buy votes and if they didn't the results would be the same. The practice should end, but that is not why the reds keep winning elections.

absolutely right and most Thais take it and then vote the way they want anyway - it's bad but it's irrelevant