Protest leader shot dead, 10 hurt in melee with reds outside Bang Na polling station

[Emptyset]

I thought, Police was supposed to be unarmed. This cop had a pistol.

and was in plain-clothes, mingling with the protesters, not the first time that the guards have caught a policeman doing this.

This is either an innocent cop, gathering intelligence (for what purpose ? criminal or political ?), or a potential agent-provocateur, no way to tell which.

Obviously it'd be suspicious for protesters that police are gathering intelligence, but any police force in the world would have people doing the same, surely? They caught another undercover cop the other day and Michael Yon actually put on Facebook screenshots of what the police guy was sending back to HQ. He was basically reporting on how they've set up the guards, what arms they have and things like that. Nothing that you wouldn't expect police to be gathering intelligence on...

Same information a killer would want to know.

Yes, a killer, or police who want to uphold the law. What did you think about police and military intelligence who infiltrated the red shirt camp in 2010? That they'd used the information in order to kill more red shirts, or that it was normal for them to want to know as much as possible about what the security arrangements were, what weapons people had and so on? I'd think the latter, despite being against the military action. It's part of the job of police to gather intelligence on this sort of stuff. It'd be negligent not to. Problem is they're obviously not very good at it, because they keep being caught.

[NongKhaiKid]

There are photos of various incidents around Bkk and in the ones I've seen the police are conspicuous by their absence.

Both Chalerm and Tarit are blaming EC officials for not calling the police in but with an obvious powder keg situation are they saying the police happily sat in their stations waiting for a call ?

There should have been a big police presence in the area of every polling station but where were they ?

EC would've had to request police prescence, but they didn't bother because they'd already decided to close polling stations pretty much as soon as the protesters showed up.

Pana Thongmeearkom ‏@panarkom 19h

@willphd @Thai_Talk Election is the EC's jurisdiction, police can step in only by request of the EC. They cannot intervene.

They could have requested either police or military presence had they wished. Running the election is the EC's show. Yet I'd agree with you that police should be doing more.

There's a limit to their ability to stop these kind of clashes though, even if they had the will to do so. Two groups fighting, at least one group armed. Would police firing at one or both of the groups have improved the situation?

I know what you mean but the police should not have been waiting to be summoned. The blockades etc were taking place on the public roads etc which is police not the EC's responsibility and while the EC officials can report a ' crowd gathering ' or worse the police should have had patrols out. The of disruption situation had to be considered highly likely so pro-active not reactive policing should have been employed.

You are right about groups fighting etc. but it has to be hoped that a police presence may have had some deterrent value although the BIB's ' do nothing until it's all over ' is very well known.

[american12bthai]

Makes you wonder what sort of jobs these protesters have that allows them to take so much time off work. These violent thugs with half a brain(am being generous) probably don't even know what the protest is about but just use it as an excuse to create some some street cred. with their other half brained mates who have got nothing better to do to fill their boring days because they have limited intelligence to do something worthwhile like find a job.

and you presume WE are all unintelligent. do you think fighting is stupid? or how about fighting to rid of tyranny? maybe you should be thankful you have white skin and a job. i see nothing stupid about anything. i see scared people living off of their instincts. and i see fear in control. and it smells...

maybe if you are paid that rate which thais are paid, you would be out on the streets too. maybe if you havent been paid in 6 months... you would be out on the streets too. MAYBE, of thaksin or Cherlerm Killed your family members you would be out on the streets too... MAYBE, you should shut your mouth before a zombie eats your brains, and then there would be some irony. and oh. how i love irony.

[NongKhaiKid]

I apologise for poor typing, the last sentence of first paragraph should have started -

" The potential for a disruption situation ... "

[pattayaorganic]

"A leader of the people", as in the foto title, is a misnomer. He was a leader of a neo fascist political party, advocating a non elected parliament, as a political model for thailand. He ended up as Mussolini, killed on the streets by the people

Utter nonsense. A man is murdered and all you can do is demonise him.

Let me educate you comrade. The Thai constitution already has a non-elected house. This is part and parcel of the "separation of powers" a core, fundamental value, critical to any true democracy. You are confounding reality and without being judgemental either you lack the mental capacity to understand what is going on or you are knowingly spreading disinformation.

Suthep is a patriot trying to reform a pathological political system by appointing a committee akin to the "founding fathers" that wrote the original US Constitution that are not there to take away any voting power but to create a system where all Thais can work together, fairly, and under the rule of law. The biggest culprit and most despicable organisation in this mess is the RTP. This organisation needs to be completely disbanded and recreated under a new system. Sometimes, it is painful to cut the cancer out but in the long run it is what is best for the patient.

I do not agree with much of Suthep and co.'s tactics but I agree that something drastic has to be done for this very sick patient called Thailand. Perhaps your "non elected parliament "(sic) comment is referring to the people's council but this is merely a group of new "founding fathers" to create a Thailand free of corruption and get it on the road to a true functional democracy.

Lest you forget that the key leaders behind the Red Shirts are militant communists whose agenda is the farthest things from Democracy it can be. Details, details.

Does anybody with 3 or more brain cells really think that Red Policy is designed for and is acheiving any improvement in the lot of the rural farmers? I used to write ag policy as an NGO think tank. What Thai farmers needed was investment in SCHOOLS, TEACHERS, EXTENSION SERVICE, assistance and research to plant alternative crops such as drought resistant sweet sorghum which can be used as feed stock for sugar mills (currently there is global shortage of sugar), feed for animals and ethanol. When the price for rice is too low, the market is telling you that you are producing too much. What imbecile can believe that making more of already too much rice is going to help things? Paying double market price? Of all these hundreds of billions of baht, where do you think the money went? Farmers rent price doubled, fertiliser price doubled, agrochem prices doubled and millers made a fortune down negotiating the official price due to "too much moisture" and other convenient excuses. SO this criminal program which enriched the rural elite and did NOT go into the farmer's pockets is supported by you in the name of some perverted form of "democracy"?

I don't like Suthep nor his methods but my despise for people claiming to help the rural poor while enriching the rural elite runs infinitely deeper.

[Ricardo]

I thought, Police was supposed to be unarmed. This cop had a pistol.

and was in plain-clothes, mingling with the protesters, not the first time that the guards have caught a policeman doing this.

This is either an innocent cop, gathering intelligence (for what purpose ? criminal or political ?), or a potential agent-provocateur, no way to tell which.

Obviously it'd be suspicious for protesters that police are gathering intelligence, but any police force in the world would have people doing the same, surely? They caught another undercover cop the other day and Michael Yon actually put on Facebook screenshots of what the police guy was sending back to HQ. He was basically reporting on how they've set up the guards, what arms they have and things like that. Nothing that you wouldn't expect police to be gathering intelligence on...

Agree that the police need intelligence, from both sides of the divide, if they're to stand any chance of preventing crimes or catching perpetrators afterwards, also from either side. Obviously they're often also carrying-out surveillance from nearby buildings, in other situations, for the same reason.

Not so convinced that he needed to be taking photos close-up, which appears to be what tipped-off the guards, or to be carrying a gun & resist 'arrest' by the guards ?

From the OP ... "However fighting erupted at the district office gate, as some 10 anti-government security guards allegedly assaulted a plainclothes policeman - later identified as Pol Col Itthikorn Lunsakaewong of Nong Kaem police station. The policeman was allegedly taking pictures of demonstrators and resisted attempts by the guards to search him.

The guards also allegedly seized his 11mm pistol and Bt6,000 in cash, before fleeing in trucks when uniformed police tried to intervene."

Pity that those uniformed police didn't intervene earlier, between the two groups, to prevent the violence before shots were fired, and the assassination itself. The police need to be seen to be impartial, if possible, in these tense times.

[patjem]

They have nothing to do. They are the backers of Thailand's black economy. They have their "people" out at bar and sex venues, counterfeit warehouses and production facilities, human trafficking, money laundering, under the radar of real estate rentals and all the other unregulated black Thai cash economy sources.

<deleted> are you talking about? Words can be used so cheaply, as demonstrated here. Yes, all of these thing do occur in Thailand, you don't mention who 'they' are supposed to be, even.

[tomross46]

Let's hope this will not set a precedent for an eye for an eye hatred. Because if so there will be much blood flowing. If the police cannot keep the situation safe then perhaps the army can.

This is what happened in 2006 and 2010.

[michaeljordan]

Bang Bang

He shot me down

Bang Bang

I hit the ground

Bang Bang

The man in black shot me down.

[englishoak]

"A leader of the people", as in the foto title, is a misnomer. He was a leader of a neo fascist political party, advocating a non elected parliament, as a political model for thailand. He ended up as Mussolini, killed on the streets by the people

Utter nonsense. A man is murdered and all you can do is demonise him.

Let me educate you comrade. The Thai constitution already has a non-elected house. This is part and parcel of the "separation of powers" a core, fundamental value, critical to any true democracy. You are confounding reality and without being judgemental either you lack the mental capacity to understand what is going on or you are knowingly spreading disinformation.

Suthep is a patriot trying to reform a pathological political system by appointing a committee akin to the "founding fathers" that wrote the original US Constitution that are not there to take away any voting power but to create a system where all Thais can work together, fairly, and under the rule of law. The biggest culprit and most despicable organisation in this mess is the RTP. This organisation needs to be completely disbanded and recreated under a new system. Sometimes, it is painful to cut the cancer out but in the long run it is what is best for the patient.

I do not agree with much of Suthep and co.'s tactics but I agree that something drastic has to be done for this very sick patient called Thailand. Perhaps your "non elected parliament "(sic) comment is referring to the people's council but this is merely a group of new "founding fathers" to create a Thailand free of corruption and get it on the road to a true functional democracy.

Lest you forget that the key leaders behind the Red Shirts are militant communists whose agenda is the farthest things from Democracy it can be. Details, details.

Does anybody with 3 or more brain cells really think that Red Policy is designed for and is acheiving any improvement in the lot of the rural farmers? I used to write ag policy as an NGO think tank. What Thai farmers needed was investment in SCHOOLS, TEACHERS, EXTENSION SERVICE, assistance and research to plant alternative crops such as drought resistant sweet sorghum which can be used as feed stock for sugar mills (currently there is global shortage of sugar), feed for animals and ethanol. When the price for rice is too low, the market is telling you that you are producing too much. What imbecile can believe that making more of already too much rice is going to help things? Paying double market price? Of all these hundreds of billions of baht, where do you think the money went? Farmers rent price doubled, fertiliser price doubled, agrochem prices doubled and millers made a fortune down negotiating the official price due to "too much moisture" and other convenient excuses. SO this criminal program which enriched the rural elite and did NOT go into the farmer's pockets is supported by you in the name of some perverted form of "democracy"?

I don't like Suthep nor his methods but my despise for people claiming to help the rural poor while enriching the rural elite runs infinitely deeper.

You don't go anywhere far enough to create a free of corruption Thailand, Suthep is a patriot all right but a self serving corrupt one as well, comparing him your suggesting the founding fathers were all Royalists which could not be further from the truth, they sought to get away from the decadent and oppressive rule not serve, you forget the armed forces are as corrupt as the RTP and just as self serving as are many of the elite if not most, all the way to the peak.

You don't have a clue what hes there to do because there hasnt been any details other than to suspend peoples rights and your writing and use of words like "imbecile" and "lack of mental capacity" "3 brain cells" shows you to be nothing short of a few yourself if you think thats a manner acceptable in debate. Further more your post is totally one sided and falls short of condemning sutheps methods rather than just "disliking them" you must have gone a bit too native or choose to ignore the other part.

You vilify one part group yet omit the corruption of the other or the dynastic reality of the country for many generations and then use the slogan "founding fathers" im not American but would find that rather offensive to put a Royalist corrupt lying anti democratic piece of rubbish in the same light as the founding fathers... absolutely polar opposites.

Working as part of a think tank has nothing to do with the work of NGO and does not make you any more credible to mention it, it is merely a tool you have used and its called name dropping to impress, sorry but it dosnt.

I agree the farmers need proper usable and lasting solutions as they do a real leader from their own ranks unselfish to help them but it has nothing to do with installing a fascist regime and a return to more pre 1930s it will only make their lives even worse. The founding fathers would turn in their graves to read your comparisons. Suthep is not fit to kiss their feet.

[Bluespunk]

Specify what part of my post you dislike which was about the violent and half brained thug that murdered for the hell of it.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Every single part of it.

[Bluespunk]

"A leader of the people", as in the foto title, is a misnomer. He was a leader of a neo fascist political party, advocating a non elected parliament, as a political model for thailand. He ended up as Mussolini, killed on the streets by the people

Utter nonsense. A man is murdered and all you can do is demonise him.

Let me educate you comrade. The Thai constitution already has a non-elected house. This is part and parcel of the "separation of powers" a core, fundamental value, critical to any true democracy. You are confounding reality and without being judgemental either you lack the mental capacity to understand what is going on or you are knowingly spreading disinformation.

Suthep is a patriot trying to reform a pathological political system by appointing a committee akin to the "founding fathers" that wrote the original US Constitution that are not there to take away any voting power but to create a system where all Thais can work together, fairly, and under the rule of law. The biggest culprit and most despicable organisation in this mess is the RTP. This organisation needs to be completely disbanded and recreated under a new system. Sometimes, it is painful to cut the cancer out but in the long run it is what is best for the patient.

I do not agree with much of Suthep and co.'s tactics but I agree that something drastic has to be done for this very sick patient called Thailand. Perhaps your "non elected parliament "(sic) comment is referring to the people's council but this is merely a group of new "founding fathers" to create a Thailand free of corruption and get it on the road to a true functional democracy.

Lest you forget that the key leaders behind the Red Shirts are militant communists whose agenda is the farthest things from Democracy it can be. Details, details.

Does anybody with 3 or more brain cells really think that Red Policy is designed for and is acheiving any improvement in the lot of the rural farmers? I used to write ag policy as an NGO think tank. What Thai farmers needed was investment in SCHOOLS, TEACHERS, EXTENSION SERVICE, assistance and research to plant alternative crops such as drought resistant sweet sorghum which can be used as feed stock for sugar mills (currently there is global shortage of sugar), feed for animals and ethanol. When the price for rice is too low, the market is telling you that you are producing too much. What imbecile can believe that making more of already too much rice is going to help things? Paying double market price? Of all these hundreds of billions of baht, where do you think the money went? Farmers rent price doubled, fertiliser price doubled, agrochem prices doubled and millers made a fortune down negotiating the official price due to "too much moisture" and other convenient excuses. SO this criminal program which enriched the rural elite and did NOT go into the farmer's pockets is supported by you in the name of some perverted form of "democracy"?

I don't like Suthep nor his methods but my despise for people claiming to help the rural poor while enriching the rural elite runs infinitely deeper.

It's your demonising of a man who was murdered to suit your political slant that bothers me. I don't care which side he was on, murder is murder and saying it's ok is wrong. I don't need education from anyone who thinks it is.

I'm not your comrade or anything else.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Bluespunk

[Artisi]

On a Sunday, perhaps both the Red-Shirt protesters, and the anti-government protesters, have normal jobs which let them take one or two days per-week off, say office or factory-jobs ?

I'd note that by-far the largest turnouts, in November & December, were at week-ends.

Even violent thugs get days-off from work !

Apparently so do the cops.

the shootings were at 2:00 and they started investigating at 4:30. Really on the ball.

Probably too busy with more important things, like a road block checking motor bike riders and safety helmets or maybe it was afternoon tea time or ever siesta time. But they did finally arrive to stand round taking lots of pics' and picking up empty bullet cases etc. Oh look another one - how many know - wow that's a lot, isn't it?

Well done guys a real credit to Thai society, law enforcement and protection of Thai citizens.

[Emptyset]

I thought, Police was supposed to be unarmed. This cop had a pistol.

and was in plain-clothes, mingling with the protesters, not the first time that the guards have caught a policeman doing this.

This is either an innocent cop, gathering intelligence (for what purpose ? criminal or political ?), or a potential agent-provocateur, no way to tell which.

Obviously it'd be suspicious for protesters that police are gathering intelligence, but any police force in the world would have people doing the same, surely? They caught another undercover cop the other day and Michael Yon actually put on Facebook screenshots of what the police guy was sending back to HQ. He was basically reporting on how they've set up the guards, what arms they have and things like that. Nothing that you wouldn't expect police to be gathering intelligence on...

Agree that the police need intelligence, from both sides of the divide, if they're to stand any chance of preventing crimes or catching perpetrators afterwards, also from either side. Obviously they're often also carrying-out surveillance from nearby buildings, in other situations, for the same reason.

Not so convinced that he needed to be taking photos close-up, which appears to be what tipped-off the guards, or to be carrying a gun & resist 'arrest' by the guards ?

From the OP ... "However fighting erupted at the district office gate, as some 10 anti-government security guards allegedly assaulted a plainclothes policeman - later identified as Pol Col Itthikorn Lunsakaewong of Nong Kaem police station. The policeman was allegedly taking pictures of demonstrators and resisted attempts by the guards to search him.

The guards also allegedly seized his 11mm pistol and Bt6,000 in cash, before fleeing in trucks when uniformed police tried to intervene."

Pity that those uniformed police didn't intervene earlier, between the two groups, to prevent the violence before shots were fired, and the assassination itself. The police need to be seen to be impartial, if possible, in these tense times.

But this incident isn't related to the shooting... I think this is the third or fourth cop they've caught with a gun now. Not sure what the point of carrying it is if they're not going to use it (they're obviously not using it to prevent the guards from capturing them). I agree with you that the police need to be impartial. They hate the NSPRT after the recent clashes - not to mention the business with the sign and the graffiti - but they're professionals and should uphold the law regardless of personal feelings. In reality though...

However, as I said to NK Kid, I'm not sure police would be able to prevent fast moving incidents like the temple shooting, even if it were possible to send riot police to every location where clashes might take place. I did see one tweet regards police escorting the protesters and protecting them from angry would-be voters. They will massively increase the number of police for next weekend's election, if it goes ahead. But I still expect violent incidents, probably unfortunately much more so than yesterday.

[smedly]

They have nothing to do. They are the backers of Thailand's black economy. They have their "people" out at bar and sex venues, counterfeit warehouses and production facilities, human trafficking, money laundering, under the radar of real estate rentals and all the other unregulated black Thai cash economy sources.

I think you'll find the reds are in full control of most of what you mentioned above which is why they are so against reform and the removal of PTP and Thaksin

[LarryBird]

Blaming the police for not being there is like blaming me for not having a gun ready when someone breaks into my house. Blame the people that did this, not the ones that weren't properly prepared. Might as well blame the sun for being out since it makes it easier to aim a gun.

[Old Man River]

Blaming the police for not being there is like blaming me for not having a gun ready when someone breaks into my house. Blame the people that did this, not the ones that weren't properly prepared. Might as well blame the sun for being out since it makes it easier to aim a gun.

You are disparaging one of the all time great's name.

The police where there. How could they not be? They watched.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[iTravelNow]

I thought, Police was supposed to be unarmed. This cop had a pistol.

It lie in the nature of this conflict that each side is blaming the other side for anything bad happening. Reading the online medias on this useless killing I do blame also to some extend the media on their bias. Depending the printed national- or international media or their online equivalent you only see quiet and well mannered demonstrators and aggressive pro-government members. On this occasion I must also hint at what I just found to make my point. The Malaysian printed paper The Star has a full page story on this event. Then on the same page a smaller picture of three anti-government protesters strangling a voter who was on his way to the ballot. The picture was shot by EPA. That picture of the voter being strangled you can't find on The Star Online page. That is what I mean being biased.

To me it seems that in today's time it is chique to be a demonstrator and are boooed supporting a government that the media is claiming to be corrupt (I must note that corruption is so wide spread not only in Thailand that I feel this argument only to "an argument with a hidden agenda". If the minority let's say 3 or even 5 million are demonstrating against YS, then it is still a minority compared to the over 10 million who voted for the last elected one. We should not fall prey to the current situation in Egypt. There, Morsi was elected by 15 million but around 21 million requested his departure.

If Suthep has the guts go an put yourself up to be elected. That is the basic of democracy. And just by arguing that there are more residents in the north than in the south and thus not giving you the chance to win shows me that he seems not only to be a bad politician but also has bad advisers. If anti-government protestors would have spend those millions of baht used for demonstrations in a well planed campaign they could also win the hearts and minds of northern people.

But Suthep has decided differently. He wants a full out conflict with the authorities. During those three months he so often assured something not to do just to find the next days that he exactly do that. Here on TV we could read the anti-government protesters promised NOT to disrupt elections. On Sunday we have being faced with the truth. That there will be violence was to be assumed. So who is now to be blamed for the death person?

As mentioned above I post some links and upload the picture in question:

The Star Online on the event: http://www.thestar.c...ders-shot-dead/

The picture by EPA (read the description): http://www.epa.eu/vi...IAGROUP_SCOPE=1

The Printed issue of The Star.

[gabruce]

I thought, Police was supposed to be unarmed. This cop had a pistol.

This is Thailand. Unarmed means handguns (pistols) only. Armed would be assault rifles. Not sure about the definition for grenades.

[pipkins]

The video seems to be in accord with the report, the NSPRT were there first and the red shirts arrived after:

Regardless of the politics, it's sad to see such hatred and violence. RIP.

It is also quite obvious from the clip with the Audio, that there was shooting from both sides. There are muzzle flashes from the speaker truck as well.

Was not all one way, and the more this pans out the less sympathy they get.

In one outragous act yesterday, some ofht PDRC and Dem LEADERS... Voted!!!!!! Incredible odious stench of hypocricy from the people who pretty much invented it in thailand.

New PDRC/DEM Slogan respect my vote..... but screw yours. Wonder how many other sneaked in un noticed!

[thhMan]

Makes you wonder what sort of jobs these protesters have that allows them to take so much time off work. These violent thugs with half a brain(am being generous) probably don't even know what the protest is about but just use it as an excuse to create some some street cred. with their other half brained mates who have got nothing better to do to fill their boring days because they have limited intelligence to do something worthwhile like find a job.

A man has been murdered and this is the type of vile, abusive post you make.

Does the poster not have the right to express an opinion...

[Bluespunk]

Makes you wonder what sort of jobs these protesters have that allows them to take so much time off work. These violent thugs with half a brain(am being generous) probably don't even know what the protest is about but just use it as an excuse to create some some street cred. with their other half brained mates who have got nothing better to do to fill their boring days because they have limited intelligence to do something worthwhile like find a job.

A man has been murdered and this is the type of vile, abusive post you make.

Does the poster not have the right to express an opinion...

Yes, but when someone has been murdered you at least try to temper the hate.

[SouthernMan3]

Makes you wonder what sort of jobs these protesters have that allows them to take so much time off work. These violent thugs with half a brain(am being generous) probably don't even know what the protest is about but just use it as an excuse to create some some street cred. with their other half brained mates who have got nothing better to do to fill their boring days because they have limited intelligence to do something worthwhile like find a job.

A man has been murdered and this is the type of vile, abusive post you make.

I know.

Rude isn't it ?

[wave]

"A leader of the people", as in the foto title, is a misnomer. He was a leader of a neo fascist political party, advocating a non elected parliament, as a political model for thailand. He ended up as Mussolini, killed on the streets by the people

Utter nonsense. A man is murdered and all you can do is demonise him.

A man was killed and the death should be properly investigated and those found responsible prosecuted.

Lets be clear though that the circumstances surrounding his death are somewhat exceptional.

Here was a man that was trying to curtail peoples right to vote.

He was leading protesters whose only intention was to hinder and ultimately remove the majorities democratic rights.

PDRC must also share in the responsibility of this mans death

This infringement of the right to vote was bound to anger and frustrate, and, the resulting violence against those engaging in these anti democratic actions is hardly surprising.

These are rights that historically many have fought and died trying to secure.

Suthin Tharatin died tying to deny the people access to their Democratic rights.

What a waste.

[howzat]

This post is going nowhere. Think it's a no brainer as to who you are defending mate. I think I'll move on.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[SouthernMan3]

They have nothing to do. They are the backers of Thailand's black economy. They have their "people" out at bar and sex venues, counterfeit warehouses and production facilities, human trafficking, money laundering, under the radar of real estate rentals and all the other unregulated black Thai cash economy sources.

Or, maybe some are farm and/or business owners and have managers and workers that they can leave to work because they trust them.

[theslime]

Taking into consideration Thaksin's gleeful unleashing of the "police" in February 2003 to wantonly murder "drug dealers" -- that is, 2,500-or so suspected or accused or disliked....

You removed Thaksin in 2006, you had a coup, you 'reformed' the constitution. Then you rewrote history to make your actions looks good. The technical term is cognitive dissonance. It's a mental process that creates a false picture in your head to make you believe you are the good guys so you can live with your bad choices.

So even as you're ripping down democracy, corrupting the bodies of state, the Electoral process, the Judiciary, the government, even as you're destroying the economy, closing schools, turning Thailand back into a third world country. Even then, your cognitive dissonance makes you think you are the good guys.

And to drown out opposing voices you do your chants, 'ear medicine', 'fugitive in Dubai', 'out shopping', the same droning chant used by cults like the moonies to indoctrinate their believers. Over and over and over again until you can no longer rationally reason for yourself.

.

Cognitive Dissonance, or the Truth. Think I,ll stick with the Truth, instead of believing in a, Mental Process that creates a false Picture, maybe your falling into your own Trap. Fugitive in Dubai is an Oldie, but you have me stumped with the other two, droning, on the Web, like a cult. Indeed.

[Bluespunk]

This post is going nowhere. Think it's a no brainer as to who you are defending mate. I think I'll move on.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Don't flatter yourself, I'm not defending anything from your comments. Their sentiment condemned them all on their own. As for moving on, good. Don't hurry back.

P.S. I'm not your mate.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Bluespunk

[SouthernMan3]

Taking into consideration Thaksin's gleeful unleashing of the "police" in February 2003 to wantonly murder "drug dealers" -- that is, 2,500-or so suspected or accused or disliked or simply unlucky small-scale alleged retailers (and the children, friends, and relatives who happened to find themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time) -- plus the reign of terror his bought-and-paid-for Black Shirts unleashed upon Bangkok in April-May 2010, it should be obvious to the dopey farang running-dogs-of-the-Reds that REMOVING THAKSIN FROM POLITICS IS A NECESSARY, THOUGH NOT SUFFICIENT, PRECONDITION FOR DEMOCRACY. That is to say, for all those fools who, astonishingly -- against all the evidence -- try to portray the violent, megalomaniacal Thaksin as some great hero of democracy, here's a clue: You will never see democracy again in Thailand if that blood-on-his-hands fugitive were ever allowed to return to this country and entrench his power. Thaksin stated on many occasions prior to the Sept. 2006 coup that democracy was not his goal; he wanted to run Thailand like a CEO; that is, like a big boss whose word is law. He wanted to discipline Thai society, like the angry, tunnel-visioned cop he was trained to be. Thaksin set as an objective to dis-empower the poor by cultivating their dependence on his financial largesse (acquired not by Steve Jobs-like entrepreneurial hard work but instead through paying kickbacks to get contracts to computerize the "police" force in the 1980s). Simply sitting back and allowing Thaksin to win this decades-long struggle -- let alone to help him in his cause by incessantly circulating propaganda, like stupid running-dogs -- would mean the utter impossibility of democracy ever reappearing for a generation or more, and the ruination of the Thai economy through wild, hare-brained schemes like the rice-pledging scam. In opposition, using occasionally non-democratic (but also, normally, non-violent) methods to prevent Thaksin's gluttonous lust for power from being realized is a small price to pay considering the alternative would be that Thaksin would crush all hope of democracy for 30 years or more. Everyone with a brain, a capacity for reason, and a willingness to study Thailand objectively -- not letting their own shame at being born into a lower class in some farang country where class prejudice is so strong that it distorts mental judgment and makes the self-loathing farang burn with envy and rage -- understands all of this to be demonstrably true. The formula is simple: Thaksin winning = no democracy for decades. Thaksin losing = a ray of hope that democracy can take root, though it will take a long, long time to undo all the damage that the power-mad man-in-the-sand and his mindless mobs of red- and black-shirted goons have caused to the political culture.

Very well said.

I agree wholeheartedly as well

[sms747]

If people are going to deny fellow countrymen and women the right to vote then this is what they should expect, no sympathy for this traitor at all.