Thai northeast vows poll payback to Shinawatra clan

[animatic]

Rebuilt her house, expanded her store for $300?

Yeah makes a ton of sense.

Of course Abhisit dropped the need to pay 30 baht for health care,

and the concomitant accounting costs for that 30 baht. lowing health care costs even more.

And when Yingluck came back in re-added the 30 baht on again,

because it was their catch-phrase, not because it would save the poor money for medical care.

[JimsKnight]

Wasn't the 30 Baht Healtrhcare program initiated by the Democrats?

Yes, but Thaksin and co stole the idea for themselves.

[Dogmatix]

Funny they should mention a poor shopkeeper eking out a living with the extra 300 dollars and the gleaming new mansions in the same article. I wonder who are the ones staying in the new mansions and buying the new cars from the car showrooms.

And it's typical AFP bias on this article, they mention the grenade and shooting attacks but purposely leave out the part where it is the protestors who are the ones getting attacked, They of course remembered to write about the red shirt leader who got shot and lived while ignoring the protest leader who didn't.

Yes, that is obvious BS of the type you can read on the New Mandala website written by left wing Australian anthropologists who understand sweet FA about economics. As if a loan of about B9,000 could transform a villager's life and allow her to build a new house. No mention of the fact that the largest new houses in the villagers are typically built with farang money.

It is true that some of the policies have been helpful but none of it would have been possible without a strong tide in SE Asia that has lifted all boats, however poorly constructed.

The rice pledging scheme needs more examination by these financially illiterate journalists. In order to benefit from the scheme, you need to have surplus rice to sell. For a one crop per year Isaan family that meets that you need on average more than 10-12 rai. Yet many farmers have less than that and a lot have no land of their own at all and have to rent which means they have to share their production with the land owner. Nevertheless those who don't make the cut and have no benefit from the scheme still adore Thaksin and his red shirt bully boys.

The government default on the rice purchased is more shocking still. Isaan farmers who have already mortgaged their land to BAAC have to borrow from loan sharks at 20% a month. So, if they are paid after 5 months, they remain in debt because the government payment is only enough to pay off the interest. Many are now already wiped out. Hence the reports of suicides.

[ginjag]

"It is painful that they hate us. But don't worry -- now we hate them too."

True Esan Buddhism, from the heart, na krap? ....... which coloured shirts was she proud to display again?

Wear the shirt.... blaspheme....... and go back to what you only think you know, or see Khun Somsamai. Cry when there is no further delivery from what you promise to pay back, to an idiot who once came to visit, and you were hysterical (are).

Hate is a powerful word; one which I didn't believe merit makers portrayed. (Well, I did/do)

I know more Issan women with this nasty attitude than men. To my mind it is not just about Thaksin/government/politics, it is an attitude that goes back far deeper than this. These poorer people get an aggressive attitude though generations. That is why a small spark can quickly spread into a large fire here.

Many are brought up to be taught not to question. They are kept DOWN in the most part. Times like these only bring out the aggression, similar to a drunk he is out of control because of the drink--B/S it is in him for starters. I wonder sometimes if -as in the problems now, it is an excuse to let out frustrations, as in football supporters do at a match.

Seems to be the case no matter who you support in general. It is much more complex than reds V others.

[Thai at Heart]

Brainwashed into believing that any positive development in their area is a result of Thaksin and PTP.

Or perhaps they had been lied to by other political parties for decades and got no investment in their areas but then Thaksin came along, said he would do something, and did it. No brain washing required, they just look around them and see what a difference Thaksin governments have made to their lives.

There have been many politicians and leaders from Issan who have no political ties to Thaksin or PTP and who have done a lot for the region. They just don't go around beating their chests and lying about it in order to gain some advantage .... or a few more billion.

Which one was that?

I remember seeing the posters for the election in 2001. Chavalit in his blue farmers outfit....

No one in bangkok or a position gave a hoot about isaan. Cp and the sugar companies did very nicely out of them though.

[Publicus]

This kind of political organization whereby you organize your political base in an "us against them" strategy ..... creating anger and hate ... is a well worn strategy and one that Robert Amsterdam and other "consultants" for 3rd world elections is well known for.

Google 'Saul Alinsky' for some background. He invented this method of political organization ...... which Amsterdam and Thaksin have found so effective in Thailand.

Yes it won Thaksin the election and has made him a hero in the eyes of many of those brainwashed by his network of organizers.

It has also created this current division in Thailand which is killing people and causing so much heartache ... and basically ruining the future.

The political power base is founded on hatred and anger. JUst look at the Red Shirt movement. And use your brain.

Yes indeed Thaksin deserves all the credit for introducing this to ISSAN and for introducing this anger and hatred methodology to the political system in Thailand.

The long standing powers that be in Bangkok have rejected the expressed wishes and desires of the rural poor to be included in the country's economic development, looking down on them after having used and abused them for centuries into the present century.

Thailand has much natural wealth yet the wealthy and powerful insist on keeping it for themselves. The consequence is a large scale social movement by the colonized countryside population to be included rather than excluded, to be treated as fellow countrymen rather than as a colonized people.

The Bangkok elites have stopped throwing crumbs at the rural underclass and instead are throwing at them the army, the courts, the media and everything at their disposal to keep them locked out of the economy, society, political system and government. Now they've thrown the fascist Suthep and his storm troopers at them.

Your post exemplifies the dichotomization of the country along these lines while refusing to accept responsibility for the divide that it creates and magnifies, so I confront it and take you to task about it. The Bangkok elites could have peace, order, stability if they were willing, which they absolutely are not.

So they are going to have to stew in their own juices for as long as it takes one way or another.

[nong38]

It seems that most of us expats living in Thailand see a very different view/picture of Shinawatra than the people who live in Udon Thani and similar places in the northeast and the north.

I doubt that there is not much of a chance them seeing it differently, they believe they have done well when Mr T or M/s T have been in power and any bad news or feelings are caused by opposition to them.

With intransigent views like this and the voting power of the region its difficult to see how any other Government could get elected, its as good as a one party system, you may call it a democratic dictatorship or similar and you can understand the PDRC are not happy either with current situation, but, with such strongly held beliefs how can any sort of compromise be reached?

A general election on the 2nd of February will be a disaster and is like going through the democratic motions because people will not accept that there is a big problem here for the country even if the Shinawatra's walked away from the scene, which is rather unlikely as they seem to have a craving for power that is insaitable.

With the problem likely to escalate I wonder if the Army will have to seperate the sides or, worse still will the country be partioned? Neither of which I would want to see but the on going situation looks to be heading down that road.

[than]

It's not a surprise.

[blabth]

Brainwashed into believing that any positive development in their area is a result of Thaksin and PTP.

Or perhaps they had been lied to by other political parties for decades and got no investment in their areas but then Thaksin came along, said he would do something, and did it. No brain washing required, they just look around them and see what a difference Thaksin governments have made to their lives.

There have been many politicians and leaders from Issan who have no political ties to Thaksin or PTP and who have done a lot for the region. They just don't go around beating their chests and lying about it in order to gain some advantage .... or a few more billion.

May be people should look back in the past. tahsin made his money before he became PM. He sold his empire and most of the money is frozen or confiscated by the Thai court? Why is everybody talking that Thaksin gained so much money during his time. He sold his companies for 1.75 billion US $. I am not saying that he is clean and a good person but all this talking about that he exploited the Thai people etc. is not completely trues.

And again the established parties (actually only one) the democrats have never ever any program for the North. The educational and healthcare program of the Thaksin Government were the first laws which guaranteed basic rights to the poor people. You can't blame it to them that they feel closer to the Thaksin government than to any other. It is the mistake of the Democrats that the situation is like that today. They gave without any fight the complete north to Thaksin.

What I blame to Thaksin is that he polarized the Thai society and that will never go back. As long as the Elite feels as Elite nothing will change.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[djjamie]

That sleepy, sun-baked village of Baan Dong Yaang in Udon Thani province highlights to me that education is the key to a true democracy. There is also a sun baked village in North Korea that feel that their leader is the savor to them as well. It doesn't mean he is. It means that the propaganda machine is very powerful and their minds are easily molded. Constant Kim Jong Un rhetoric pumped through the airwaves would make Obama love him. It worked on Dennis Rodman!! Admiration is not a sign of being right or being good. Hitler was admired and loved, Mugabe was admired and loved. Thaksin is admired and loved, but like Hitler and Mugabe they are also very very naughty boys.

No one said it would be easy to bring the people back from voting for a toxic cancerous PTP that spreads quicker than a bangkok hooker. That is the journey these poor

gullible uneducated souls must take now; to destroy in their minds the myth that there is no outside. To accept that yes, they have been the fuel to this dictatorship and that they can indeed change their circumstances of being perpetually poor due to welfare populism that will never empower them to stand alone. It is through a deliberate albeit slow effort of changing their minds that is an enabler to a better democratic future.

I would love to visit that sleepy, sun-baked village of Baan Dong Yaang in Udon Thani province and hug that lady. I would have a tear in my eye knowing that the cycle of despair and the perception that they need the govt to survive can be broken. You don't need the govt good lady in Baan Dong Yaang. You can stand on your own 2 feet, but the person you are voting for is stopping you with one hand while giving you hand outs with the other.

Beautiful article that shows the merciless grip on Thailand is strong.

[Dogmatix]

Two protesting rice farmers, wearing the anti-government national flag straps, display their message after intruding into the office of Phitsanulok

These two are not from the Northeast but seem to be taking a different view from the farmers surveyed by the AFP journalist who still apparently love Thaksin despite being wiped out by him financially. Theoretically they should be a much better position than the average Isaan farmer defaulted on by the government because Phitsanulok farmers can grew 2-3 crops a year, whereas the government defaulted on the entire annual production of one crop per year Isaan farmers.

[wellwell]

Wasn't the 30 Baht Healtrhcare program initiated by the Democrats?

Yes it was.

[worgeordie]

I wonder if the lady in the article repaid the micro loan, or

was it just more money lost in the black hole of Government

policies.

regards Worgeordie

[Now or Never]

The Election result will be interesting !!

[Emptyset]

Two protesting rice farmers, wearing the anti-government national flag straps, display their message after intruding into the office of Phitsanulok

These two are not from the Northeast but seem to be taking a different view from the farmers surveyed by the AFP journalist who still apparently love Thaksin despite being wiped out by him financially. Theoretically they should be a much better position than the average Isaan farmer defaulted on by the government because Phitsanulok farmers can grew 2-3 crops a year, whereas the government defaulted on the entire annual production of one crop per year Isaan farmers.

Not true apparently. That's actually one reason Issan farmers aren't protesting en masse, because the majority of them have been paid having harvested their annual crop earlier than those in other provinces. The farmers Jonathan Head spoke to in Udon had also been paid - but they'd heard about some that hadn't.

"Almost everyone in the northeast has been paid because they've already harvested their rice. Elsewhere that's not the case," said Nipon Poapongsakorn from the Thailand Development Research Institute."

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/world/a/21086837/thai-red-shirt-heartland-backs-government-despite-rice-fiasco/

[thesetat2013]

And here i thought all this time that the families sent their daughters to make a lot of money to send home and to try to find a rich foreigner to marry and get millions from the sin sodt??

If anyone has ever talked to A bar girl there is a 90% chance she is from this region.

Can you imagine what life for these people will be like without the money they get from BKK?

Ohhh wait, sorry i forgot that Thaksin and YL will be there throwing cash into the streets.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[trogers]

"They say Isaan people are stupid and lazy. But we are the bones of the country. We grow the rice they eat in Bangkok. We build those beautiful buildings they live in," she said with tears in her eyes.

Sad to say, it will be cheaper for Bangkok to eat imported rice from India and Vietnam if they are allowed in with little import taxes.

And now most workers building those beautiful buildings in Bangkok are from Burma, Laos and Cambodia, thanks to the increase in minimum wages.

[jaidam]

Hopefully these northeasters get their wishes and vote back clan kleptocrat for another term. The prospect of seeing them weasel out of their rice scam makes me giddy with amusement, the 2 trillion slush fund and propwash to stop flooding likewise. A sensible government that runs the country for the benefit of the citizens would be a boring letdown after this fantastic fill-ya-pockets free-for-all anarchy that the Thaksin markIV will be fondly remembered for by the Thaivisa forumers.

Please vote for Yingluck, vote for nepotism and corruption, vote for no checks and balances, vote for Thailand going down the Zimbabwe and NK route. It will be good for a laugh.

[TVGerry]

Funny they should mention a poor shopkeeper eking out a living with the extra 300 dollars and the gleaming new mansions in the same article. I wonder who are the ones staying in the new mansions and buying the new cars from the car showrooms.

And it's typical AFP bias on this article, they mention the grenade and shooting attacks but purposely leave out the part where it is the protestors who are the ones getting attacked, They of course remembered to write about the red shirt leader who got shot and lived while ignoring the protest leader who didn't.

But they weren't all protesters who were attacked. One of the dead people was a policeman while Red Shirts were also among the victims in the incident at Ramkhamhaeng. This story is about the Red Shirts so it's natural to interview a Red Shirt leader. Other articles have interviewed the anti-government protest leaders. With respect I think it's you who is biased, and disappointed that the coverage isn't more pro-Suthep.

ONE incident at Ramkhamheng as opposed to how many gun and bomb attacks at rally sites and at the houses of protest leaders? They've been attacked almost daily but AFP doesn't mention this. If you didn't know what was really happening here and was reading about it for the first time, you would think the violence and the shootings were mostly done by the protestors when that's obviously not true. When you talk about a red shirt leader getting shot while ignoring a protestor leader shot DEAD, people who don't know what's happening will assume that only red shirts are getting shot at and killed when it's the opposite that's true.

[jalansanitwong]

Go to the remotest part of issan and i guarantee one of the first sights you'll see is a farang waddling around his property with an Issan wife.

There would hardly be a family tree in all of Issan that doesnt have a farang branch hanging of it to some extent.

These are the people who have bankrolled issan families for decades with real money mostly from Switzerland, UK, Germany Austria ,Belgium and Holland.

The Shinawatra's get all the credit and money. The farangs drag thousands of village female peasants out of poverty and when he dies he's burnt and his deeds forgotten.

I am Thai man .... "this is my house. i built it ! "

Nothing will ever change in Thailand.

The rich will get richer and old farangs will keep coming here and marrying poor village girls. Takes the heat of the government. No responsibility.

[Publicus]

Brainwashed into believing that any positive development in their area is a result of Thaksin and PTP.

Or perhaps they had been lied to by other political parties for decades and got no investment in their areas but then Thaksin came along, said he would do something, and did it. No brain washing required, they just look around them and see what a difference Thaksin governments have made to their lives.

There have been many politicians and leaders from Issan who have no political ties to Thaksin or PTP and who have done a lot for the region. They just don't go around beating their chests and lying about it in order to gain some advantage .... or a few more billion.

May be people should look back in the past. tahsin made his money before he became PM. He sold his empire and most of the money is frozen or confiscated by the Thai court? Why is everybody talking that Thaksin gained so much money during his time. He sold his companies for 1.75 billion US $. I am not saying that he is clean and a good person but all this talking about that he exploited the Thai people etc. is not completely trues.

And again the established parties (actually only one) the democrats have never ever any program for the North. The educational and healthcare program of the Thaksin Government were the first laws which guaranteed basic rights to the poor people. You can't blame it to them that they feel closer to the Thaksin government than to any other. It is the mistake of the Democrats that the situation is like that today. They gave without any fight the complete north to Thaksin.

What I blame to Thaksin is that he polarized the Thai society and that will never go back. As long as the Elite feels as Elite nothing will change.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Quite.

The Bangkok elites have spent centuries getting and staying increasing wealthy on the backs of the people of Issan. The ammat have been rice scamming Thai farmers for a thousand years and now insist on militantly enforcing their colonization of them. In 2006 it was the coup d'état military mutiny. In 2008 it was the judicial coup de courts. Now its the loud and brazen fascist Suthep and his storm troopers that will be out in force Sunday to try to nullify democracy in Thailand forever

Edited January 31, 2014 by Publicus

[TVGerry]

The Bangkok elites have spent centuries getting and staying increasing wealthy on the backs of the people of Issan. The ammat have been rice scamming Thai farmers for a thousand years and now insist on militantly enforcing their colonization of them. In 2006 it was the coup d'état military mutiny. In 2008 it was the judicial coup de courts. Now its the loud and brazen fascist Suthep and his storm troopers that will be out in force Sunday to try to nullify democracy in Thailand forever. Your complaints, squawking and carping are trivial by comparason.

Oooo here we go with the ammarts again!

[retsdon]

Hopefully these northeasters get their wishes and vote back clan kleptocrat for another term. The prospect of seeing them weasel out of their rice scam makes me giddy with amusement, the 2 trillion slush fund and propwash to stop flooding likewise. A sensible government that runs the country for the benefit of the citizens would be a boring letdown after this fantastic fill-ya-pockets free-for-all anarchy that the Thaksin markIV will be fondly remembered for by the Thaivisa forumers.

Please vote for Yingluck, vote for nepotism and corruption, vote for no checks and balances, vote for Thailand going down the Zimbabwe and NK route. It will be good for a laugh.

Better no vote at all then... Government by Divine Right? Because that's what the Democrats are offering the country.

[Publicus]

Go to the remotest part of issan and i guarantee one of the first sights you'll see is a farang waddling around his property with an Issan wife.

There would hardly be a family tree in all of Issan that doesnt have a farang branch hanging of it to some extent.

These are the people who have bankrolled issan families for decades with real money mostly from Switzerland, UK, Germany Austria ,Belgium and Holland.

The Shinawatra's get all the credit and money. The farangs drag thousands of village female peasants out of poverty and when he dies he's burnt and his deeds forgotten.

I am Thai man .... "this is my house. i built it ! "

Nothing will ever change in Thailand.

The rich will get richer and old farangs will keep coming here and marrying poor village girls. Takes the heat of the government. No responsibility.

Well I guess the Thais up there are really confused because by your accounting they should be marching on Bangkok to demand more fahlang up there given that by your accounting fahlang have themselves transformed the socioeconomics of Issan.

[LarryBird]

Two protesting rice farmers, wearing the anti-government national flag straps, display their message after intruding into the office of Phitsanulok

These two are not from the Northeast but seem to be taking a different view from the farmers surveyed by the AFP journalist who still apparently love Thaksin despite being wiped out by him financially. Theoretically they should be a much better position than the average Isaan farmer defaulted on by the government because Phitsanulok farmers can grew 2-3 crops a year, whereas the government defaulted on the entire annual production of one crop per year Isaan farmers.

Left: yes, right: probably.

[Crushdepth]

"Even in Isaan some farmers now grumble about late payments for rice delivery, but so far there are few signs of a mass defection from the Shinawatras".

Written by someone who has no idea what is going on.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Crushdepth

[Publicus]

"Even in Isaan some farmers now grumble about late payments for rice delivery, but so far there are few signs of a mass defection from the Shinawatras".

Written by someone who has no idea what is going on.

Written by someone who has no idea what is going on.

[Scamper]

The famous saying that one can buy a fish, or one can teach one how to catch a fish - wasn't a saying invented by Thaksin ! He has generously continued to buy fish - with other people's money, of course - so that a dependency was locked permanently in place. More payments ? Just vote Pheu Thai. It was a simple enough arrangement. And everyone understood it. And it worked. But the cracks were bound to appear - a bankrupt treasury, an endless quest for finding cash through illegal means, paying off more and more people to keep bureaucrats happy and looking the other way - but finally, the public itself rebelled. They had had enough. Contrary to popular belief, there is no divide in education in the understanding of these matters between North and South. People on both sides understand very well the dynamic at play. The half that can pay, pays. The half that can't pay, receives. One half of the country calls it pragmatism. The other half calls it cynicism. Thaksin has engaged the North in a quid pro quo. But he has also decided that he needs to prop up an invisible line. To have the North always at his side, there had to be a narrative of acrimony towards the rest of the country. He needed to set up a culture of hate. So up went the UDD radio stations which fed the new line repeatedly, and in increasingly fanaticism, as well as the establishment of a formed hierarchy of local leaders. Next came the " red villages " - another step in establishing an " us " versus " them ". Thaksin has placed all his hopes on one half of the country. And that's why he can't allow the payments to stop. The loyalty he needs is inexorably tied into it.

[ShannonT]

Brainwashed into believing that any positive development in their area is a result of Thaksin and PTP.

Probably less brainwashed than Suthep's whistle mob.

[IMA_FARANG]

Oh don't worry my farmer friends the Shinawatra family has plans to have you "payback" them for ehat they have done for you.

In fact, if you are fool enough to re-elect any of that family they will make you do "payback" to them for years.

Every Baht they can steal from you and your friends and relatives will be your "payback" to the Shinawatra clan and their henchmen for as long as you allow them to steal from you.