Bridge loan auction for rice scheme met with no-show by banks

[ginjag]

34 invited

34 no shows

I dont suppose the Govt get a hint from this reaction.

Get a hint about what? Surely those who support the farmers (some of whom are apparently commiting suicide) shouldn't be pleased about this news? The farmers are now paying for the govt's incompetence in not obtaining the money before they dissolved house. Sure, it's ultimately the govt's fault, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing that farmers are suffering yet more.

The EC could make an exception and allow the govt to borrow money - yet they won't, despite being willing to disregard the constitution in trying to get the election moved. I know about the corruption in the rice scheme and how those at a very high level of govt have profited, yet that doesn't mean farmers should have to suffer through no fault of their own.

Ah but it is the farmers faults for being stupid enough to believe the bs from PT and vote for them, they only have themselves and PT to blame. And as for the EC they can't break the law, PT keep threatening them with all kinds of crap and the last thing they want to do is break the law for any reason and rightly so...

Has the caretaker P.M. Caretaker Defense M, shopaholic anything to say on the matter ?? maybe cannot lose face.

[ratcatcher]

It's Sutheps doing all this -him and his thugs,

Fascist thugs.

Fascist bangkok elite thugs!! ...................

Wicked, nasty, misguided, Bangkok,fascist,vicious elite thugs.

[robertson468]

So they held an auction to borrow the money. The fact there was a no show is immaterial, what they did do was show intent to borrow the money to pay the Farmers, knowing that it is probably illegal for a Caretaker Government to borrow money. In my book a crime has been committed and should be subject to investigation with a view to prosecution. What an incompetent mess, with most of the poor Farmers in financial dire straights as a result.

[philw]

Waiting for red sheeple to start arguing 'It's the elites, they are conspiring against our dearly beloved fugitive puppet master, why do they have to be so mean to poor Poo ?!' Or 'It's all the EC's fault, they are telling the banks not to help' or some such...

Sad for the farmers, but you decided to trust a snake and it bit you on the ass. Learn your lesson and move on....

Thanks for your enlightening comments and such clever use of words and sarcasm.

I've been a member here since 2003 and you have the great honour to be the first person I have put on my ignore list.

Please feel free to feel ennobled.

No need to respond, I wont' see it.............

[AleG]

This is real embarrassing for the finance ministry. Banks don't want to get involved in the rice scheme it seems. Now what? Selling bonds? Loan from international banks?

Mr T could cover the outstanding debts to the farmers and never notice the decrease in his billions.

But would he? I mean he loves the poor folk, doesn't he?

Of course he loves the poor and downtrodden, that's why he moved to Dubai, a billionaire's playground built on the back of modern day slaves.

[plachon]

This is real embarrassing for the finance ministry. Banks don't want to get involved in the rice scheme it seems. Now what? Selling bonds? Loan from international banks?

Mr T could cover the outstanding debts to the farmers and never notice the decrease in his billions.

But would he? I mean he loves the poor folk, doesn't he?

He could do, but one thing I've learned about Thaksin over the last 15 years is that he never risks his own money on anything apart from feathering the Shinawatra clan's nest. He is also not a philanthropist in any sense of the word. When he went to Atsamat District on his "rural development reality TV gimmick roadshow" and handed out 500 B notes to the villagers, it was certainly not his own money, just as when he was PM and proposed buying Liverpool FC to boost his popularity, he could've done it with his own money, but chose to raid the national budget. Luckily, enough people saw through his plans then and blocked it. Their limited numbers then seem to have swelled a bit since, and luckily the banks are wise to the risks of bailing out the Shinawatras like this.

[falangadang]

... and that just about sums up the equity value that the banks place on Thailand's mountain of rice!

[AleG]

Although the situation the farmers find themselves in is sad, I find it very hard to feel sorry for them. They were the ones who voted this gov't in.

If they were greedy and only thinking about themselves when they cast their vote instead of thinking about the financial health of the entire country, they wouldn't be in this situation.

As with any speculative financial deal, the most important thing is controlling risk and planning for adverse events. You should never base your decision only on the profits you will get with the best case senario as they have done (ie. predicting the price of rice will rice). If the farmers had run some numbers or done some basic research on the financial platform of the PTP, they would have easily seen that the gov't was in no way able to finance more than 1 year of the country's entire rice harvest if the worst case senario (but also the most likely senario) of not being able to sell the rice at higher prices came true.

I'm not saying the Democrats are perfect, but at least they have enough financial sense to not bankrupt the country with their policies.

This is why some people are calling for more educated voting.

A bit of a tall order to have farmers doing research, but the unworkability of the scheme could had been easily demonstrated in a televised debate between the candidates. Then again Yingluck avoided any type of debate or unscripted statement like the plague during the campaign.

[aimbc]

At the end of all of tbis, the govt will be charge with defrauding the rice farmer. By issuing an IOU without any money backng it. In the US bounce check is a federal crime. Because it is a piece document that is used in place of solid hard cash. If you don't have the funds, you can't issue it. Bottom line. Now unless the govt has a 2 year term with the farmer. But I doubt it. And how many people did they defraud? And how much?

[Showbags]

I know how the government feels.

I remember when I was 21 and applying for a credit card....everyone turned me down in them days.

[belg]

loan overhere often means GIFT...

you can have millions of baht, and still no bank will give you a credit card, if you dont have a workpermit...

but farmers with credit cards, people with 15.000 baht per month income, sorry, thai people = no problem

[ggt]

This is a national disgrace...scamming your own poorest people...leaving them destitute...leaving the farmers hanging in the balance...with no compensation in sight...this is going to be the final hurrah...for this failed government...I would not be surprised to see some heads roll...literally over this debacle...

[DrTuner]

This is real embarrassing for the finance ministry. Banks don't want to get involved in the rice scheme it seems. Now what? Selling bonds? Loan from international banks?

How about loan sharks ? That's what the farmers are doing. Mr.T might have some trouble outrunning them, though.

[djjamie]

34 invited

34 no shows

I dont suppose the Govt get a hint from this reaction.

Get a hint about what? Surely those who support the farmers (some of whom are apparently commiting suicide) shouldn't be pleased about this news? The farmers are now paying for the govt's incompetence in not obtaining the money before they dissolved house. Sure, it's ultimately the govt's fault, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing that farmers are suffering yet more.

The EC could make an exception and allow the govt to borrow money - yet they won't, despite being willing to disregard the constitution in trying to get the election moved. I know about the corruption in the rice scheme and how those at a very high level of govt have profited, yet that doesn't mean farmers should have to suffer through no fault of their own.

Section 181 of the constitution is clear that no exceptions can be made.

The EC didn't disregard the constitution regarding postponing the election. They asked the Constitutional Court to clarify if elections could be postponed.

I feel for the farmers too, but making excuses for the govt who are the cause of their suffering will not help the farmers.

​All it does is the opposite. Clamoring all over the farmers hardship to to come up with excuses why it isn't the PTP's fault.

Your right. It is the governments fault. End of story. Blame them.

[bino]

Although the situation the farmers find themselves in is sad, I find it very hard to feel sorry for them. They were the ones who voted this gov't in.

If they were greedy and only thinking about themselves when they cast their vote instead of thinking about the financial health of the entire country, they wouldn't be in this situation.

That's perhaps a bit harsh.

They are poor and many are uneducated.

I imagine they were thinking about themselves and their families when looking at this offer.

You're right, it is harsh, as the farmers are suffering hardships now. But nonetheless, it is valid.

The problem that comes with a lack of education is that you end up learning everything the hard way. The farmers are getting that lesson now.

All I can hope is that it will make a difference in their future choices- they will think more prudently before taking the too-good-to-be-true offers that will impact their lives like this.

[lovetotravel]

and guess who the loan sharks are affiliated with - the redshirts the government and Thaksin

and guess who is waiting for the farmers to pack it in and buy up their land for a fraction of the price - the redshirts who are affiliated with the government and Thaksin

getting the picture

The reds opened up bank finance to poor people which killed the loan shark market, but don't let the truth interrupt you.

Meanwhile Sanook is digging into Sutheps financing.

It seems he borrowed 25 million baht money against his Ko Samui land deed 5071, from a company who owns Shabu Shabu at 8% pa.

This was just before he resigned to go on this crusade.

Now suppose he won this battle and got into power. How did he expect to get his 25 million back?

How did he expect to profit from his 25 million investment? And if it wasn't an investment, why does he complain that its gone!

So you're busy pretending Suthep is some beacon of clean, despite the Phuket land scandal, and all the other stuff on him, but you're missing the obvious thing about the current power grab.

He spent all this money, how did he expect to get it back, and where did it all come from in the first place!

Truth is the loan shark market is alive and well. Many farmers turned to them for "bridge" loans until they got money from the government for their pledged rice. Many farmers in my wife's village are in this predicament. Their collection techniques are ruthless.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/699976-we-want-our-rice-back-plus-compensation-angry-thai-farmers-say/

The government has repeatedly postponed payments to farmers who participated in the scheme in recent months. The delay has forced many farmers to turn to loan sharks to get money.

[JesseFrank]

34 invited

34 no shows

I dont suppose the Govt get a hint from this reaction.

Get a hint about what? Surely those who support the farmers (some of whom are apparently commiting suicide) shouldn't be pleased about this news? The farmers are now paying for the govt's incompetence in not obtaining the money before they dissolved house. Sure, it's ultimately the govt's fault, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing that farmers are suffering yet more.

The EC could make an exception and allow the govt to borrow money - yet they won't, despite being willing to disregard the constitution in trying to get the election moved. I know about the corruption in the rice scheme and how those at a very high level of govt have profited, yet that doesn't mean farmers should have to suffer through no fault of their own.

How about blame the farmers for their greed ?

Even before the 2011 election had passed, everyone already predicted how the rice and tablet scams were gonna end.

Why did the farmers not know what everyone else in this country knew ?

The farmers don't know because the message they get from the TV and local radio is propagandized to hide the truth. Keep the faith in Kuhn Thaksin and you, too, will be rewarded with wealth. That's all they tend to hear, over an over and over for the last 13 years.

It's like how the US culture is unable or refuses to recognize US crimes. It is mass delusion.

Really, are channel 3 -5- 7 - 9 - 11 all propagandized ? Must have happened over night.

Well I don't watch any Thai television , yet I knew how this gonna end, probably because in my skull is something different as mayonnaise.

So leave only the excuse that they didn't know because they are uneducated, and that justifies the reasoning from the current opposition that the one man one vote policy doesn't work in Thailand.

Because changing the system would protect the farmers against the populist Thaksinist governing .

[robblok]

34 invited

34 no shows

I dont suppose the Govt get a hint from this reaction.

Get a hint about what? Surely those who support the farmers (some of whom are apparently commiting suicide) shouldn't be pleased about this news? The farmers are now paying for the govt's incompetence in not obtaining the money before they dissolved house. Sure, it's ultimately the govt's fault, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing that farmers are suffering yet more.

The EC could make an exception and allow the govt to borrow money - yet they won't, despite being willing to disregard the constitution in trying to get the election moved. I know about the corruption in the rice scheme and how those at a very high level of govt have profited, yet that doesn't mean farmers should have to suffer through no fault of their own.

Why.. I mean this damages the PTP a lot and if they go for bonds the judicial coup gets closer. So they just use this to get rid of the PTP. The irony is that the farmers who brought in the PTP will now be the ones that are used as a tool to finally get rid of the PTP.

I understand your sympathy for the farmers.. the PTP can go for the bonds and solve two problems.. get the money for the farmers and give the anti government the ammunition for a judicial coup. Win Win i say.

I dont see why they can't do it.. their incompetence got them here.. now if we are lucky it will remove them from power.

[tingtongteesood]

Waiting for red sheeple to start arguing 'It's the elites, they are conspiring against our dearly beloved fugitive puppet master, why do they have to be so mean to poor Poo ?!' Or 'It's all the EC's fault, they are telling the banks not to help' or some such...

Sad for the farmers, but you decided to trust a snake and it bit you on the ass. Learn your lesson and move on....

Thanks for your enlightening comments and such clever use of words and sarcasm.

I've been a member here since 2003 and you have the great honour to be the first person I have put on my ignore list.

Please feel free to feel ennobled.

No need to respond, I wont' see it.............

Sums up the red sheeple pretty well, they have their viewpoint and how dare you try to contradict it with your fancy facts and statistics and how dare you point out hypocrisy and tell us we are wrong even baccking up your statements with documented proof.

They just refuse to face the truth that the beloved fugitive in Dubai and his cronies have lied to them repeatedly for years ! Ignore me if you want, I don't give a rats ass. I speak the truth, you don't like it, that's your problem. Some people just can't accept reality...

[KIWIBATCH]

Meanwhile, Deputy Commerce Minister Yanyong Phuangrach attributed the government’s inability to acquire loans from state-run banks, such as the Government Savings Bank and the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives, to the strong objection from the banks’ labor unions. He thus urged the unions to think of the plight of rice farmers who had not been paid for their crops and were facing huge burdens from various financial obligations.

Yet there has not been so much as an apology from the Chairperson of the rice scheme or ant PTP ministers. However, they are quick to pour shame on the banks because of the plight of the poor old farmers.

I will also be pulling all my cash out of TMB if they as so much as hint that they are going to attend the next auction on Tuesday. I will also tell the staff why.

Totally agree with what you say...but..... you and I would be the last people on earth to even get a whiff of a "hint" that TMB, or for that matter any of the other 33 banks invited to tender - were going to/proceeded with subscribing to this loan for the Government.

The current Finance Minister has already reacted to the no-show from the banks by threatening to exclude them in the future from Government money dealings.

Now putting 2 and 2 together... these are entirely my thoughts and gut feelings rightfully or wrongfully.......

1 This threat from the MoF wouldn't have been taken lightly by the banks. Add in Boards of Directors all intertwined within "old boy networks" favouritism and the like.

2. Lets say the banks quietly (under huge pressure/veiled threats) and without any publicity go ahead and loan the money to the current Govt.

3. Word leaks out (as it always does in Thailand) after it has happened.

4. 100's of thousands of people (if not millions?) vehemently opposed to this current government then rush the banks and start withdrawing their current balances. (would Thai folk do this I wonder?)

5. What would then happen? (I don't really know to be absolutely honest with you)

I just can't help but think that this beautiful country is already in alot of strife......with this Sunday 2nd yet to come.....and I believe the <deleted> is really going to hit the fan big time from Sunday.

I am also reminded about another Government (was it Greece or Cyprus?) I truly cannot remember, who found themselves out on a limb with no money in the Govt coffers....so they swooped down on everyday folks bank a/c's nationwide...obviously with all of the Banks knowledge.

Folk then queued outside banks to find that their previous balances had been reduced by 90%....!!!!

I don't know the outcome of this particular episode (as to whether the peoples a/c's were reinstated or not)........but I have this uncanny feeling the the same could happen here in Thailand... call it the "Yingluck Govt maverick factor" if you like.......although of course it would be happening for a different reason - re the payment to the rice farmers.

This Govt is desperate to get their hands on money...make no bones about it.

ok thats my 2 bobs worth...... I am a simple retired ex Kiwi businessman....I am no expert on financial matters or politics, absolutely not. I am simply saying it as I see it...and as I see it only.

By the way I withdrew all of my funds from TMB today.........okay ...you can call me uneasy, a stupid old fool, panic stricken, I worry to much, brainless, senile???.....but I at least I have retirement savings where I can keep an eye on them.

[muchogra]

I went long on rice in the commodity market. I hoarded rice, using my country as the number one exporter, trying to drive up the world market price. It would be the same as in 97 when the Thai baht was devalued when, all of a sudden, THB became 40'ish from 20'ish. I took my country for a gamble for I am the best! If it had gone my way, I would have been conceived as God!

Even if it had gone my way (world price of rice goes up) and later recedes, it ain't my problem , for I would have made a killing, and the simpletons would never know anyway for I'm with the people using the others' money!

[Skywalker69]

Som nam na.

[JohanB]

Exiled Thai Leader Thaksin Says Rice Policy Should Stay

Excellent interwiev with Taksin how he really runs Thailand and the rice scam from september 2012!!

If you missed it, here is the link

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-24/thai-rice-policy-should-stay-several-more-years-thaksin-says.html

[smedly]

34 invited

34 no shows

I dont suppose the Govt get a hint from this reaction.

Get a hint about what? Surely those who support the farmers (some of whom are apparently commiting suicide) shouldn't be pleased about this news? The farmers are now paying for the govt's incompetence in not obtaining the money before they dissolved house. Sure, it's ultimately the govt's fault, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing that farmers are suffering yet more.

The EC could make an exception and allow the govt to borrow money - yet they won't, despite being willing to disregard the constitution in trying to get the election moved. I know about the corruption in the rice scheme and how those at a very high level of govt have profited, yet that doesn't mean farmers should have to suffer through no fault of their own.

Why.. I mean this damages the PTP a lot and if they go for bonds the judicial coup gets closer. So they just use this to get rid of the PTP. The irony is that the farmers who brought in the PTP will now be the ones that are used as a tool to finally get rid of the PTP.

I understand your sympathy for the farmers.. the PTP can go for the bonds and solve two problems.. get the money for the farmers and give the anti government the ammunition for a judicial coup. Win Win i say.

I dont see why they can't do it.. their incompetence got them here.. now if we are lucky it will remove them from power.

they cannot raise any money no matter what basically they are at junk status without the help of Moody's, and it's local banks that have declared the status

Why is PTP still talking and not in jail the whole lot of them - the whole thing is incredible, what other country would put up with this crap........ and Thaksin has already recovered his confiscated funds handed to him by these cheats and liars - it's time for the army to step in and end this hugely embarrassing situation

There will be no room in the prisons when all this is done - it is simply shocking

[Skywalker69]

34 invited

34 no shows

I dont suppose the Govt get a hint from this reaction.

Get a hint about what? Surely those who support the farmers (some of whom are apparently commiting suicide) shouldn't be pleased about this news? The farmers are now paying for the govt's incompetence in not obtaining the money before they dissolved house. Sure, it's ultimately the govt's fault, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing that farmers are suffering yet more.

The EC could make an exception and allow the govt to borrow money - yet they won't, despite being willing to disregard the constitution in trying to get the election moved. I know about the corruption in the rice scheme and how those at a very high level of govt have profited, yet that doesn't mean farmers should have to suffer through no fault of their own.

How about blame the farmers for their greed ?

Even before the 2011 election had passed, everyone already predicted how the rice and tablet scams were gonna end.

Why did the farmers not know what everyone else in this country knew ?

How about blame the farmers for their greed ?

How about blaming PTP and Thaksin for their greed for power instead? The farmers didn´t ask for the sceme.

[Trembly]

Narrative (my brackets):

The government once announced that the sale of stockpiled rice would be done under a G2G (government to government) arrangement via a Chinese company called GSSG Import & Export Corporation, whose sole appointed agent in Thailand is Mr. Natthanit Sojirakul, a.k.a. 'Palm' who is the personal assistant of Udonthani MP Rapheephan Phongrueangrong, wife of red shirt leader Arisman Phongrueangrong.

Mr. Natthanit then in turn issued a letter formally appointing as his representative Mr. Nimol Rakdee, a.k.a. Joe, who is the right hand man of Sia Piang.

It was Mr. Nimol Rakdee's job to purchase rice from the government under the G2G scheme via the Department of Foreign Trade. Sia Piang then takes the rice which was sold at a price below market rates due to the fact that there was no public auction as per G2G regulations, and sells them to the rice mills at market rates.

The government loses money once because Sia Piang pockets the difference between the G2G price and the market rates. The rice mills then sell the rice back to the government, causing the government to lose money twice because the government is obliged to buy the rice at 40% above the market rate.

It is probably not negligence or coincidence that causes the government loses money in this way. More likely because Sia Piang (circled) is a close associate of Thaksin.

Selling the rice under a G2G scheme (to avoid a public tender) is actually a scheme to sell the rice to corporations belonging to people close to Thaksin Shinawatra.

And don't forget, the money that was lost two-fold in this way is none other than our very own tax money.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Trembly

[smedly]

OMG - this just makes me sick

and reinforces my prediction months ago that this will turn out to be the biggest theft in Thai History

why isn't this common knowledge - why have the press not run with this stuff

[Trembly]

OMG - this just makes me sick

and reinforces my prediction months ago that this will turn out to be the biggest theft in Thai History

why isn't this common knowledge - why have the press not run with this stuff

The mainstream press wouldn't touch it for quite some time. It was through the efforts of some independent journalists that even more details (right down to photos of the slum houses that were used as registered addresses for some of the paper companies and their directors) than this have surfaced via independent online news outlets. Lots of this is a matter of public record. Anyone can go the Ministry of Commerce and ask for the registration papers of any company.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if these brave journalists' work was a part of what forced the NCCC to launch a probe.

I'll try and dig those articles up and translate them.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Edited January 31, 2014 by Trembly

[chainarong]

NongKhaiKid, on 31 Jan 2014 - 15:42, said:

Sorry about typing, should be " ...BS excuses ".

So U should be NKK, this type of mistake will not be tolerated, another carton.

[JRSoul]

Get a hint about what? Surely those who support the farmers (some of whom are apparently commiting suicide) shouldn't be pleased about this news? The farmers are now paying for the govt's incompetence in not obtaining the money before they dissolved house. Sure, it's ultimately the govt's fault, but that doesn't mean it's a good thing that farmers are suffering yet more.

The EC could make an exception and allow the govt to borrow money - yet they won't, despite being willing to disregard the constitution in trying to get the election moved. I know about the corruption in the rice scheme and how those at a very high level of govt have profited, yet that doesn't mean farmers should have to suffer through no fault of their own.

"The EC could make an exception and allow the govt to borrow money.........." even though this is clearly illegal. Have you considered the consequences for the EC if they decided to do this and give PTP an nice little electoral boost? They could be held personally liable for loans in the billions of baht.