In the photo they are really praying and asking " Where is our Rice Money ! " ....

Naaa, there are only about 20 or 25 people in the photo, the ones fighting for their rice money are in Bangkok and have joined the demonstrators

I'm not sure that this is the point. They had been neglected for so long since 1932. Bangkokians have enjoyed far better services and living standards its not funny. I don't see this in red or yellow. We need to understand what only Thaksin did for the people of the north and northeast to realise this. 17 times the amount of government services in and around Bangkok compared to the North.. And now people trying to stop them and others from voting. This is not Democratic. I think we can lay the blame at successive governments who have spurned the people who are at fault. This is not so much about Thaksin but rather a semblance of democracy that I think the people desire. Not the elite of Bangkok infringing upon their rights. Be he good bad or ugly for all of Thaksins faults he did connect with the people. The Democrat's have not and cannot until they participate in the democratic process. In short Thailand needs to usher in a constitution that benefits all the people even the minority. Maybe they could take a leaf out of Australian or New Zealand democracy and copy this. But until both sides stop wanting power and money, it will be the people who revolt as we are seeing today and especially in the last 10 years. Marginalisation is Thailand's biggest problem as is the Ammarts, police, military and the judicial system. Their will be no real peace for any Thai until these items can be addressed. The revolution will continue until an equal balance of power and reform has been achieved. A rough road lies ahead.

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Equality & minority rights are guaranteed by the Thai Constitution, but in practice often ignored, so then it becomes a legislation issue for enforcement of Constitutional rights. As you know enforcement of the law in Thailand is 'fragile' and undermined by institutionalised corruption. Therefore back to square one, how to overcome endemic corruption within Thai society.

Channel News Asia has produced some good reports on the protests and a few day s ago interviewed Udon red leader Kwanchai in hospital during which he boasted the reds could field more supporters than the protesters and if they wanted a civil war ' So Be It ".

This has been repeated several times since then and while relevant to the story is frightening in that it raises the possibility that some in the media might want this to really kick off, and I'm not pointing at the channel in question, simply because it will give them a big story.

Channel News Asia has produced some good reports on the protests and a few day s ago interviewed Udon red leader Kwanchai in hospital during which he boasted the reds could field more supporters than the protesters and if they wanted a civil war ' So Be It ".

This has been repeated several times since then and while relevant to the story is frightening in that it raises the possibility that some in the media might want this to really kick off, and I'm not pointing at the channel in question, simply because it will give them a big story.

Not surprising really, without wars what would the media have to do all day long. TV for that matter as well lol

Channel News Asia has produced some good reports on the protests and a few day s ago interviewed Udon red leader Kwanchai in hospital during which he boasted the reds could field more supporters than the protesters and if they wanted a civil war ' So Be It ".

This has been repeated several times since then and while relevant to the story is frightening in that it raises the possibility that some in the media might want this to really kick off, and I'm not pointing at the channel in question, simply because it will give them a big story.

Not surprising really, without wars what would the media have to do all day long. TV for that matter as well lol

Unfortunately you're right. Over the years I've heard variations on the theme that bad news makes the best news.

I'm not sure that this is the point. They had been neglected for so long since 1932. Bangkokians have enjoyed far better services and living standards its not funny. I don't see this in red or yellow. We need to understand what only Thaksin did for the people of the north and northeast to realise this. 17 times the amount of government services in and around Bangkok compared to the North.. And now people trying to stop them and others from voting. This is not Democratic. I think we can lay the blame at successive governments who have spurned the people who are at fault. This is not so much about Thaksin but rather a semblance of democracy that I think the people desire. Not the elite of Bangkok infringing upon their rights. Be he good bad or ugly for all of Thaksins faults he did connect with the people. The Democrat's have not and cannot until they participate in the democratic process. In short Thailand needs to usher in a constitution that benefits all the people even the minority. Maybe they could take a leaf out of Australian or New Zealand democracy and copy this. But until both sides stop wanting power and money, it will be the people who revolt as we are seeing today and especially in the last 10 years. Marginalisation is Thailand's biggest problem as is the Ammarts, police, military and the judicial system. Their will be no real peace for any Thai until these items can be addressed. The revolution will continue until an equal balance of power and reform has been achieved. A rough road lies ahead.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Equality & minority rights are guaranteed by the Thai Constitution, but in practice often ignored, so then it becomes a legislation issue for enforcement of Constitutional rights. As you know enforcement of the law in Thailand is 'fragile' and undermined by institutionalised corruption. Therefore back to square one, how to overcome endemic corruption within Thai society.

enforce the rule of law, set a precedence and start throwing all parties in jail instead of letting them out on bail. It has to start somewhere. If a bunch of convicts can do it in Australia and do it very well, Thailand when they get serious can as well.

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No you only want those agreeing with you whether they are Thai or falang

You are supporting a group which is trying to deny the fundamental right of voting! It does not get any more undemocratic than that! The Yellows have had multiple opportunities to make their so called "reforms" recently, in 2006-2008 especially.

Only some arrogant and ignorant Bangkok expats continue supporting them for some selfish reason obviously. Some are even hoping for a military coup.

Keep on voting is the only way to get rid of corrupted politicians eventually. Military coups only hand power back to the same corrupted elite in Bangkok and nothing improves. The Reds are not much better but at least it is a small step forward.

This arrogant attitude of Thai Chinese minority is very dangerous. The idea it is their birthright is to rule over Thailand. It could turn against themselves if the angry Reds really started flooding to Bangkok. All that decades long hate just waiting to be released. It could turn very ugly and very fast. When Thais lose their cool, they really lose it in very bad way. I hope it does not come to that.

In 2010 it was very close of starting a civil war. Government buildings already were burning all over the place but for some unknown reason it did not escalate beyond that. This time we might not be so lucky.

No good voting some maggots back in, same problem. The only way forward is to get the courts to kill the maggots off-get rid of them ALL.

Then you can sit down once the rabble has departed get your big changes in laws and reform. OOO la La Elections.

you mentioned abot getting rid of the Chinese Thai elite, good lets start with the rebel rouser first -the one that is still today causing thee problem--The big Chinese Thai himself Thaksin.

Have a look at forbes gin the top 10 will tell you whos the big chinese thai and Mr isnt anywhere near close but i get your point i suggest the maggots are kicked out in elections when the arrogant sobs in yellow finally realise its not all about them they might just do it. ... or maybe not in this lifetime

I never said Thaksin was the wealthiest. DID I ?? and I didn't say kick the maggots out in elections DID I.

I said let the courts kick them out-------REFORM then elections. There are arrogant slobs in all colours here in Thailand, You know full well, so why single out the Yellows.

Elections are the most stupid thing at this time, big problems for the voters, cannot finish in one day, total chaos. Whoever is trying to block is not the point.

impossible situation. Thailand needs stability, just because it's( democratic to do) doesn't mean it has to be now because the PM wants it now for her own reasons, not to be in defiance of Suthep.

If they're all coming to Bangkok today, how are they going to vote?

I doubt the coup will happen today. In fact I still doubt it'll happen at all, although it's always a possibility. I just don't see Prayuth staging it. Also, whilst I don't think the red shirt talk of setting up a new capital is helpful, the threat of red insurrection is probably the main factor in the military's reluctance to stage a coup.

No you only want those agreeing with you whether they are Thai or falang

You are supporting a group which is trying to deny the fundamental right of voting! It does not get any more undemocratic than that! The Yellows have had multiple opportunities to make their so called "reforms" recently, in 2006-2008 especially.

Only some arrogant and ignorant Bangkok expats continue supporting them for some selfish reason obviously. Some are even hoping for a military coup.

Keep on voting is the only way to get rid of corrupted politicians eventually. Military coups only hand power back to the same corrupted elite in Bangkok and nothing improves. The Reds are not much better but at least it is a small step forward.

This arrogant attitude of Thai Chinese minority is very dangerous. The idea it is their birthright is to rule over Thailand. It could turn against themselves if the angry Reds really started flooding to Bangkok. All that decades long hate just waiting to be released. It could turn very ugly and very fast. When Thais lose their cool, they really lose it in very bad way. I hope it does not come to that.

In 2010 it was very close of starting a civil war. Government buildings already were burning all over the place but for some unknown reason it did not escalate beyond that. This time we might not be so lucky.

"in 2006-2008 especially"

Just to point out that Thaksin was PM, and then caretaker-PM, from January to September of 2006, and his PPP-led coalition-governments were in-power, from January-December of 2008, so I can't agree with your claim that that "The Yellows have had multiple opportunities to make their so called "reforms" recently, in 2006-2008 especially." , I think you're overstating your case based on inaccurate 'facts'.

The junta-appointed government, from September-2006 to December-2007, did make some changes/reforms to the Constitution during that time, reacting to flaws which had shown up under Thaksin, and these were (correctly IMO) validated by a national-referendum, the right way to see whether reforms are approved or not by the electorate.

I think that many posters, whichever side they tend towards, would agree that some further reform is needed. Caretaker-PM Yingluck & protest-leader Suthep both promise reform, followed by elections again, thereafter.

But the question in my mind is more, whether Yingluck & PTP can be trusted, to carry these out (and put them to a national referendum) while they are actually in-government. The way the Amnesty-Bill was extended & pushed-through would suggest not IMO. The temptation to "hang onto power at all costs", as her brother advises, seems too strong.

I'm not really any happier about Suthep's currently-proposed alternative.

Meanwhile holding an election in the current atmosphere, with supporters of both groups on-the-streets & a level-of-violence & intimidation unprecedented during the run-up to the election, seems certain to have flawed and unpopular results. Red waves or blocking polling-stations are equally undemocratic. This is already a failed-election, even before most have voted, IMO.

And the Electoral Commission will take their own (hopefully neutral) view on that.

Edited February 2, 201412 yr by Ricardo

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

"All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness..."

Same old, same old...PAD-Dem arrogance. Denigrating the pro-electoral majority by suggesting they are uni-dimensional and devoid of political awareness.....According to them, only the PAD-Dem's are blessed with Political wisdom....

And they speak of 'reconciliation".....Good luck with that!

"It will not happen"....reminds me of a Regional Red Shirt leader stating emphatically, "That elitist minority will not control us".........In other words "It will not happen"

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

"All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness..."

Same old, same old...PAD-Dem arrogance. Denigrating the pro-electoral majority by suggesting they are uni-dimensional and devoid of political awareness.....According to them, only the PAD-Dem's are blessed with Political wisdom....

And they speak of 'reconciliation".....Good luck with that!

"It will not happen"....reminds me of a Regional Red Shirt leader stating emphatically, "That elitist minority will not control us".........In other words "It will not happen"

Exactly, let's just grant amnesty to everyone and go for a beer like nothing ever happened.

you mentioned abot getting rid of the Chinese Thai elite, good lets start with the rebel rouser first -the one that is still today causing thee problem--The big Chinese Thai himself Thaksin.

Thaksin in his Machiavellian style power play started for real the political awareness among poor northern Thais. He probably never intended it to become such a large political force, he just wanted the top spot in Thai government by using them.

Anyway, he and his sister will some day be voted out of power but the awareness and political influence by voting are here to stay. If the Bangkok yellow elite tries to deny the northerners from voting, it could turn very ugly.

If it was your business that was going under-----you would sack the management first----then (vote) recruit to start on the right path.

You would never let them stay in management.

I see a lot of Red shirts today at the polling station.

But I think it is Chinese New Year Red.

Even Suthep is a Red Shirt yesterday.

you mentioned abot getting rid of the Chinese Thai elite, good lets start with the rebel rouser first -the one that is still today causing thee problem--The big Chinese Thai himself Thaksin.

Thaksin in his Machiavellian style power play started for real the political awareness among poor northern Thais. He probably never intended it to become such a large political force, he just wanted the top spot in Thai government by using them.

Anyway, he and his sister will some day be voted out of power but the awareness and political influence by voting are here to stay. If the Bangkok yellow elite tries to deny the northerners from voting, it could turn very ugly.

I think if one was to give some credit to Thaksin it is that he did give Isaarn a voice that now cannot be ignored. That is good.

But the rest of him is pure garbage plus the notion that he is a businessman is also pure garbage.

The northerners will get their vote. It will be the vacuum in the aftermath and action from the courts over the next few months that will see Thaksin and his Pheau Thai band of lawless undemocratic thieves removed. The north should start learning that democracy also includes abiding by the law and the constitution.

Sadly if the Dubai crim gets his way the next generation will look the same as they keep the rich Chang Mai elite in the lifestyle they demand.

In you other post it is possibly not the political colours on the wristbands that you see but the nation....two sides opposed but both contain an element with a common want for their country...common ground is there. There is hope.

Of course if the poor and north continue to benefit from the raise in standard of living at the rate they have over the last 10 years that would be just great.

Someone without the the corruption but business sense of Thaksin and without the arrogance, manipulation and corruption of the Dems that would be nice. I also live in hope.

Thaksins business sense is self, acquired mainly through his position in Government. There is the greed problem.

There has been more corruption in the last 3 years than anything the Dems could have dreamed about.

Arrogance lies mainly in the FAMILY and hangers on.

Let the courts decide who has been corrupt. Time is Thailands hope, NOT quick elections before the PTP can be raked over in the courts about unaccounted money.

But Gin the current gov have only been in for 2 1/2. sorry bud but as much as i dont like thaksin he did all right for the country paid off its crippling debts and raised the poor standard of living about 60% , better than anyone previously, brought hope to the north and a voice they will always have now.

Good men do bad things and power corrupts we all know this, so he used the north.... end result is hes not here but the north is booming .. now why is that ? because the good done outlasts the bad.

Every academic of note accepts the good done in those early years they should not be pretended as bad because they wernt, i dont even like admitting it myself but its simple undeniable fact.

Suthep on the other hand has done sweet FA but feather his own nest and his handlers ... now if you want to compare the two I will come down on the side of Thaksin every single time because he at least benefited millions and it will continue to and never tried to stop the people from voting whereas Suthep .... well i dont know what his achievements have been apart from being a leader repeatedly when civilians are getting shot at by his orders at worst or acquiescence at best.

Edited February 2, 201412 yr by englishoak

The Reds are proclaiming about Sedition and Revolution, not Democracy. The evidence is in their act of injuring or killing others who disagree with them.

Hmmm...DSI is very quiet towards this group of people. Who is DSI working for?

Hmmm... I think you have a point. The DSI may be biased towards the govt. But seriously, I'm no fan of violent rhetoric, but is talking about such plans in case of a coup really illegal? The anti-govt protesters want to overthrow the govt and tear up the constitution. Attempting to overthrow the democratic system of governance - which is what they're doing - is illegal according to section 68 of the charter. So how can you accuse people that say they're going to resist a sedition attempt of sedition? Strange logic.

The Reds are proclaiming about Sedition and Revolution, not Democracy. The evidence is in their act of injuring or killing others who disagree with them.

Hmmm...DSI is very quiet towards this group of people. Who is DSI working for?

Hmmm... I think you have a point. The DSI may be biased towards the govt. But seriously, I'm no fan of violent rhetoric, but is talking about such plans in case of a coup really illegal? The anti-govt protesters want to overthrow the govt and tear up the constitution. Attempting to overthrow the democratic system of governance - which is what they're doing - is illegal according to section 68 of the charter. So how can you accuse people that say they're going to resist a sedition attempt of sedition? Strange logic.

Protesters want to tear up the constitution? I must have missed that part.

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

"All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness..."

Same old, same old...PAD-Dem arrogance. Denigrating the pro-electoral majority by suggesting they are uni-dimensional and devoid of political awareness.....According to them, only the PAD-Dem's are blessed with Political wisdom....

And they speak of 'reconciliation".....Good luck with that!

"It will not happen"....reminds me of a Regional Red Shirt leader stating emphatically, "That elitist minority will not control us".........In other words "It will not happen"

Exactly, let's just grant amnesty to everyone and go for a beer like nothing ever happened.

Beer would be good. And do you want a serving of another election with that?

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

I don't think it's so much the desire to gain more wealth and power. Thaksin, his family and his own network of elites have committed so many crimes while in power that if they ever lose control of the system it will come after them.

The Reds are proclaiming about Sedition and Revolution, not Democracy. The evidence is in their act of injuring or killing others who disagree with them.

Hmmm...DSI is very quiet towards this group of people. Who is DSI working for?

Hmmm... I think you have a point. The DSI may be biased towards the govt. But seriously, I'm no fan of violent rhetoric, but is talking about such plans in case of a coup really illegal? The anti-govt protesters want to overthrow the govt and tear up the constitution. Attempting to overthrow the democratic system of governance - which is what they're doing - is illegal according to section 68 of the charter. So how can you accuse people that say they're going to resist a sedition attempt of sedition? Strange logic.

And yet again how is that different than Thaksin and his lackey's also wanting to tear up the constitution and continue ripping apart the shred of the democratic system that is there? Also strange logic.

Same old, same old...PAD-Dem arrogance. Denigrating the pro-electoral majority by suggesting they are uni-dimensional and devoid of political awareness.....According to them, only the PAD-Dem's are blessed with Political wisdom....

So you are saying The Nation has it worng huh, what ?

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

One really has to be a blind fool to write such rubbish. So you are against democracy?! Go back to your home country, Thailand does not need your kinds of expats!

sorry my friend you are the blind fool

How can you vote for democracy when their is only 1 party to vote for

todays vote is for democracy or dictatorship

when there is only one party in power it is a dictatorship not democracy

Please state what your right is to tell someone to leave Thailand, that right is held only by a Thai citizen

The Reds are proclaiming about Sedition and Revolution, not Democracy. The evidence is in their act of injuring or killing others who disagree with them.

Hmmm...DSI is very quiet towards this group of people. Who is DSI working for?

Hmmm... I think you have a point. The DSI may be biased towards the govt. But seriously, I'm no fan of violent rhetoric, but is talking about such plans in case of a coup really illegal? The anti-govt protesters want to overthrow the govt and tear up the constitution. Attempting to overthrow the democratic system of governance - which is what they're doing - is illegal according to section 68 of the charter. So how can you accuse people that say they're going to resist a sedition attempt of sedition? Strange logic.

I think you got mixed up there...it is not the Anti-Government protesters, who want to tear up the Constitution, it is the Thaksin/Yingluck Government, who have tried to change it, because it makes their corrupt practices illegal and they don't like that (simplified, but pretty much sums it up)

Yup, like I figured

--The Sydney Morning Herald 2014-02-02

Outside journos who just don't understand the problem like The Nation or Tony Cartalucci do

Go Squawks!!

Sadly if the Dubai crim gets his way the next generation will look the same as they keep the rich Chang Mai elite in the lifestyle they demand.

In you other post it is possibly not the political colours on the wristbands that you see but the nation....two sides opposed but both contain an element with a common want for their country...common ground is there. There is hope.

Of course if the poor and north continue to benefit from the raise in standard of living at the rate they have over the last 10 years that would be just great.

Someone without the the corruption but business sense of Thaksin and without the arrogance, manipulation and corruption of the Dems that would be nice. I also live in hope.

Thaksins business sense is self, acquired mainly through his position in Government. There is the greed problem.

There has been more corruption in the last 3 years than anything the Dems could have dreamed about.

Arrogance lies mainly in the FAMILY and hangers on.

Let the courts decide who has been corrupt. Time is Thailands hope, NOT quick elections before the PTP can be raked over in the courts about unaccounted money.

But Gin the current gov have only been in for 2 1/2. sorry bud but as much as i dont like thaksin he did all right for the country paid off its crippling debts and raised the poor standard of living about 60% , better than anyone previously, brought hope to the north and a voice they will always have now.

Good men do bad things and power corrupts we all know this, so he used the north.... end result is hes not here but the north is booming .. now why is that ? because the good done outlasts the bad.

Every academic of note accepts the good done in those early years they should not be pretended as bad because they wernt, i dont even like admitting it myself but its simple undeniable fact.

Suthep on the other hand has done sweet FA but feather his own nest and his handlers ... now if you want to compare the two I will come down on the side of Thaksin every single time because he at least benefited millions and it will continue to and never tried to stop the people from voting whereas Suthep .... well i dont know what his achievements have been apart from being a leader repeatedly when civilians are getting shot at by his orders at worst or acquiescence at best.

Sorry mate--totally biased-

Your statement that the government has only been in for 2 and half years means what ??? long enough to bring the country to it's knees---you know that.

Suthep appeared because of it.

Thaksin paid off crippling debts, during a world BOOM, when things were thriving, and at the same time feathered HIS nest---this was his only interest.

Please remember what he paid off was Government earned money---HIS JOB-- no favours. when everyone had money--before the world collapsed.

When you have corrupt business you kick out the management FIRST no elections needed--the courts do that --aftermath elections as I have said.

If those do come to Bangkok ... I'll recommend to the gf that there is an untapped market maybe selling ageless face-cream to our friends from the north ...

They just look old from working hard to keep the rich BKK elite in the lifestyle they demand.

Judging by an interview with Forbes, I don't think it's The Bangkok Elites lifestyle that they are maintaining.

I just hope, that the bloodshed will stop and that things will be peacefully resolved soon.

Last night, a popular singer, on one of the Demonstrator stages started talking and said "Just because we are on different sides, doesn't mean that we cannot sit down together, as friends".

He hit the nail right on the head. In my town, there are many people who follow whatever Thaksin says and a few of us, who are on the demonstrators side, but we all sit together, eat, drink, have fun. There are no threats, no mean words, just good food and drinks. Our neighbor supports the other side and we both keep our TV's low, out of respect for each other, not trying to brainwash each other with our rhetoric. (We have businesses right next to each other)

We also have members in the same Motorcycle club, on both sides, but choose to stay away from political rhetoric, when we are together. So much more fun to eat and get drunk than to fight and scream.

In the end, we are all just pawns in a global chess game

I've always had a really active imagination, but...

I never Imagined that I'd one day find myself living in a country and wishing it would have a military coup soon...

the coup is overdue!

No you only want those agreeing with you whether they are Thai or falang

You are supporting a group which is trying to deny the fundamental right of voting! It does not get any more undemocratic than that! The Yellows have had multiple opportunities to make their so called "reforms" recently, in 2006-2008 especially.

Only some arrogant and ignorant Bangkok expats continue supporting them for some selfish reason obviously. Some are even hoping for a military coup.

Keep on voting is the only way to get rid of corrupted politicians eventually. Military coups only hand power back to the same corrupted elite in Bangkok and nothing improves. The Reds are not much better but at least it is a small step forward.

This arrogant attitude of Thai Chinese minority is very dangerous. The idea it is their birthright is to rule over Thailand. It could turn against themselves if the angry Reds really started flooding to Bangkok. All that decades long hate just waiting to be released. It could turn very ugly and very fast. When Thais lose their cool, they really lose it in very bad way. I hope it does not come to that.

In 2010 it was very close of starting a civil war. Government buildings already were burning all over the place but for some unknown reason it did not escalate beyond that. This time we might not be so lucky.

Finally someone who knows what there talking about, the Chinese started imagrating to Thailand over 400 years ago, between 1882 & 1917 there where 30,000 per year coming to Thailand, starting in 1910 they where required to take Thai surenames, they currently make up around 14% of the population around 9 million. Between WWI & WWII they contoled all the rice, timber, tin and rubber being produced in Thailand mainly via corruption. Today 80% of the Thai stock market is controled by Thai Chinese, 80% of the top 40 wealthiest Thais are Thai/Chinese with the new 2013 #3 being Chareon of Thai Bev.

Yingluck, Abiset, Thaksin and most all of the past 10 PM's have been Thai/Chinese, the military, the courts and most public offices at the high level are Thai/Chinese. They are seperate society within the Thai society, you will rarely ever see a Thai chinese marry a Thai, they are only allowed to marry within there society, if they do so they risk being shunned by their family.

I am not saying that all Thai/Chinese are bad or corrupt, but the current situation is just a power struggle between the Thai/Chinese elites, with the poor Thai people being manipulated stuck in the middle!

Edited February 2, 201412 yr by bkkfaranguy

Many seem to be shouting war and trying to ignite one. All caused by one single person for greed and desire of greatness. 64 years old and gathered billions. Still it's not enough. How does he think he can return to Thailand and live? Become president of the north? It will not happen.

Eric: You are right, of course -- but don't expect the mindless Red farang robots (RFRs) parroting the Thaksin/Amsterdam line to comprehend and/or to accept what you (and others) have been patiently trying to explain week after week after week. I say "and/or" because I suspect that (a) some RFRs are so simplistic in their thinking that they genuinely can't conceive of the complexity involved here: that choosing the ruling party through the ballot box may very well lead to a far more authoritarian government in the mid-to-long run than temporarily calling a halt to elections so that the rules can be re-written in order to prevent the determined-to-be-dictator Thaksin (and his puppet parties) from ever being able to hold office again; to these folks, voting automatically means democracy, and no further thinking is necessary. But at least these folks are being honest when they criticize Suthep's reform movement: they're far too bewildered to realize that Thai politics is like an onion and they need to devote some time and effort to peeling off a few more layers before expressing their opinions.

Then there is the b group of RFRs. These people, one senses, know perfectly well that if the showdown with Thaksin fails, the boundlessly ambitious, wildly unscrupulous Machiavellian (who yet so often makes astonishingly poor strategic and policy decisions) will lock in his power and Thailand will never see democracy again for at least a generation: I'm talking 30 years or more. In other words, the b-group RFRs endlessly malign the Suthep movement even though they fully understand that should Thaksin win, democracy would be history in Thailand, particularly once the Ultimate Political Transition occurs. Why do they nevertheless slander Suthep and his supporters in the name of democracy, hour after hour, day after day? (Really, where in hell do they get so much time?) It's against the TV rules to suggest that some might be on someone's payroll, so I won't go down that route. But I will suggest that some in this group own tourism-related businesses in Thailand (probably bars and such) and are pissed off about the drop off in business. And lately I've been wondering whether the ones who live in small Isaan towns and villages with their wives' families feel a sense of danger that unless they can prove to the local Red Shirt goons that they are completely on their side -- "look, here's the proof: I'm maligning Suthep every day!" -- they could eventually find themselves in grave personal danger if the Reds ultimately lose (which of course they will) and decide the farang countries didn't do enough to support "democracy" in Thailand, meaning Thaksin's bid to lock down a dictatorship. Because although many foreign journalists fail to understand the complexities of Thai politics, most of the farang embassies do, and they've been explaining the situation to their home governments. Once the Reds and Thaksin conclusively lose, lots of young Isaan males are going to be really, really angry -- and for some of them, their anger will be intensified after they ingest certain stimulating chemicals. No one should be surprised if a few farang outside of Bangkok find themselves targets of sharp hostility.

So -- at the advice of my Thai girlfriend (she is Sino-Thai from Bangkok, but decidedly middle class; she dislikes Thaksin but also *hates* Army intervention in politics: basically, she's a middle-of-the-roader) -- I am going to take the Buddhist route and no longer express anger or waste my time trying to reason with either group: the a-group RFRs that are too simple-minded or uniformed to understand the complexity of the current situation, and the b-group RFRs mouthing off out of fear of their businesses failing or having the shit kicked out of them (or even being murdered) once all hell breaks loose after the Red Shirts conclusively lose.

I would suggest others consider taking this route and just let the RFRs rant. In the first place, it does absolutely no good to reason with them. They're not here to discuss or reason, because discussing and appealing to reason and hallmarks of democrats and the RFRs support the putative dictator Thaksin. That's why so many RFRs cheer and celebrate when Suthep protesters get maimed and murdered. Any real democrat witnessing this violence would realize: "Hey, maybe I better re-think my position. Because is the death penalty an appropriate punishment for people conducting a civil disobedience campaign against an election that they think will pave the way for dictatorship?"

In the second place, the side the RFRs support is going to lose no matter what -- surely we all know that -- so all their ranting is, at best (for them), just a laughable waste of time. At worst, it may lead to some of them being deported if they're really living in Thailand and aren't taking steps to mask their IP addresses.