Cost of buying/starting small business generation 30K/mth profit?

[haybilly]

I'm happy to recoup 12% on Funds/Investment Accounts, etc Tax Free..got a lot of spare time, too. But then--I'm retired.

[brit1984]

running your own business can produce high return (but seems you are not really motivated by that) but with that potential high return also comes high risk

any business than can make 30,000 baht/ month could also make zero (or negative) depending on your effort/ skill/ luck, which doesn't seem to be a good match for your circumstances and objectives

i think investing in a portfolio of cash-yielding equities/ bonds/ property would get you closer to your optimal risk/ reward balance

[impulse]

A mate of mine has 16 cars and 10 bikes he has not looked back since starting up a year ago he started out with 2 jeeps he runs it from his rented home

Wait 'til the wrong local finds out he's competing with them.

The OP asked for something that will still be paying out in 15 to 20 years, not something that evaporates when the authorities figure it out- the ones he can't bribe away with a few hundred baht.

To the OP, it would be helpful to know your personal situation, what type of visa, what country you're from, Thai wife?, skillsets, hobbies, etc.

It would be a shame to buy yourself a job that you hate.

[F4UCorsair]

Chiang Mai (and Thailand in general) is a much better place to spend money than to make it.

If you're only breaking even in 15-20 years like you mention in your post then really just put that money in a bank or something else with a predictable return, and you'll do a lot better.

The only reason to actually do it would be to keep you or the Mrs. entertained during the day, without any specific goal or need of making money, and as long as it loses money less than the cost of playing golf or drinking all day then you can consider that coming out on top. But even then, yet another coffee shop? (Not to mention that you rule out restaurants, but then specifically include bakeries and noodle shops..)

Anyway, if this was easy to answer then people would be doing it themselves. Running a business is an incredible effort and investment of your time. There are no easy businesses providing a reliable return for not too much work. (And believe me, I really wish this weren't so.)

I agree, in general, that Thailand isn't a place to come to find a job and earn money OR buy a bar and get rich!

My problem is I have enough to live well for 15 years but might live another 40. Because bank interest is so low there is no way to leverage any reasonable income from it - deposited into a bank at somewhere near 3% I run out in 15 years. However I hope I can easily buy one, or a few, small business that, together earn 30K Baht per month. It doesn't matter to me if it is one, or more, one-person noodle shop(s), or a computer repair shop with 6 staff, or a dairy with 10 staff!

BTW:

Doing some math: 1,000 baht per day / 100 customers = 10B net profit per customer. 20B per customer is required if only 50 customers per day or 50B from 20 customers - so... finding a business that will average that isn't unreasonable to expect when I'm not as concerned with the purchase price, the initial income or the break-even time!

You MUST be concerned with the purchase price, initial income and break even time!! They are integral parts of a business.

If you want B360,000 a year, about $12,000, you would expect to pay between 3 and five times the profit, depending on the type of business, whether there is goodwill associated with it or not. I'm guessing you could put that sort of money into a new business in Thailand and make a good start from scratch.

If you're going to spend more than that, and actually have more to spend, you may be better at looking at investing in shares with dividends of 5%+. Then, of course, you may just want something to do, rather than sit around and drink booze??

Edited February 3, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[sam sen]

be careful about your location. a foreign guy set up a nice little restaurant for his GF, good menu, she was keen as anything, but they rented a place right by a busy traffic lighted road junction, exactly the place you wouldnt want to sit and have a meal. you could see this straight away. anyway the business had very few customers and closed after 4 months.

there was a similar sized rental 1 minute away down a quiet soi, set up at the same time, same MO; farang & GF and its going really well. location.

[Notable]

Just a word of warning, if you or your partner don't work within the business and you employ staff (including relatives), expect to be stolen from. It seems to be a universally accepted form of practice with employees here.

[belg]

if you find that golden business that brings in 30k a month for a small investment, give me poke ...

who would not want to get that kind of money (almost teacher wage) for doing, well, lets say, do nothing much

[BKKdreaming]

it is hard to make $1000 a month after expenses in most 3rd world countries for the locals that know the rules !

and you want the same business to last 10-20 years ? I think that is hard in the west and Thailand is changing so much I think its impossible !

Edited February 3, 2014 by BKKdreaming

[96tehtarp]

You will need a Thai partner you can really trust that will not cheat you.

Find that first and 30k per month is guaranteed.

Finding the above is not easy for farangs because we usually look in all the wrong circles.

[haybilly]

it is hard to make $1000 a month after expenses in most 3rd world countries for the locals that know the rules !

and you want the same business to last 10-20 years ? I think that is hard in the west and Thailand is changing so much I think its impossible !

What is your problem??? The first post was weird enough, but to repeat it--or am I just seeing double??

[belg]

On the off chance that "Reckless Ron" is a serious poster, and not a troll.

1. Minimize the risk to your capital.

If you loose your capital, it's time to go back to farang land with your tail between your legs.

2. Your posts match your name "Reckless", be very sceptical of any PM's or offers of help in reply to this post.

There are a lot of people who would love to separate you from your nest egg.

3. Do you have an honest, hard working Thai wife / partner that you trust?

Much easier to make a business work with a good local partner.

4. Making 30k a month should be easy, I can think of 10+ ideas that have a high probability of working.

None require > 1 Million Baht capital investment.

All require a bit of hard work by your Thai partner & your support.

and could you share those 10+ ideas

or will you take them to the grave ?

give us some advise, how, where to invest... i got some spare change to invest as the bank intrest return is even lower than last time

[marioc]

how about buying some dividend paying stocks? i don't get what you are trying to do. i bought stocks 30 years ago and collect dividends every year. not to mention the value of the stock is up appx. 450% over the 30 years.

Good for you that you bought stocks 30 years ago.... I wouldn't be so sure about buying stocks now for the Next 30 years.

[NBD]

If you have unlimited capital, you're not interested in ROI and don't want to work then put 12m THB in a savings account at 3% and you'll get about 30k a month, guaranteed.

Anything else entails risk, work, luck and judgement.

[HaleySabai]

Have you ever done 'small-business'(sb) before?.....man,you have to do everything!

Most sb fail within the 1st year and not always due to market dynamics but to simple work load.... people want the "easy-way" - the idea of being your "own boss",staying home counting money et... is very pleasing ....until the work starts. It is possible to reach the "boss" position but rarely without the long grind before hand....I'm talking legal not shady biz-models.

There can't be many stones that have not already been turned over by the Thai's......if it was so easy to make 30,000 baht/mon they would all be doing it.....then of course it would be a race to the bottom, as it quit often is in this market place.

We (expats) all face the same dilemma of making enough money to keep the "good-life"rolling,but I have always felt it to be unethical to pit oneself against local vested interest unless the business model can add positive economic value...for example... a cottage industry that makes demand of local goods and services,including employment and then the end product is exported.

Anyways, thats my rant, but I will leave you with an idea...... Lemonade Stand ....low investment, no employees, curb-side appeal....wait for the hot season and find several robust foot traffic areas you can set up in for little or no cost , charge 20B, net profit @ 50, sell 60-70.... days work done ...go home count sheep. Remember, Thai-taste is a little on the salty-side. The key is to keep moving, if the Thais see you making money then within a week it will be a "race to the bottom" - Good Luck

[ozyjon]

If you are not committed to stick with whatever you do for 3 yrs you will lose on your investment for sure.

You have to put the initial work in and not just expect to buy something ready to go.....those are the ones which will be hard to recoup.

Look at paying your investment back in 3yrs so if you want 30k a month then don't spend more than 1 million.

Make your product unique or special and make sure you get at least a three year rental lease at less than half your profit.

And don't let someone discourage you from massage, that's what I do, and I knew nothing about them 2yr ago, but six figure incomes every month paid off my initial investment a while ago.

But whatever you do its not a walk in the park, and you haven't to take it on lightly.

I'm in it for the long haul so I don't care if it takes a while to get up to 30K B/mth. I'm not interested in fast money, like you can make in massage, I'm interested in stability and longevity. That rules out bars and discos and restaurants and massage and...

I'm thinking things like bakery, noodle shop, computer repair ... all in areas that actually need them may be the best best?

If you are interested in starting a bakery please get in touch with me as i know a lady who had a bakery in Chiang Mai that went bust and she still has all the machines in her flat, i think they are fairly new as well.

So there, it's your start.

Edited February 3, 2014 by ozyjon

[DLock]

Two words.

7/11.

Easiest business in Thailand to operate...assuming you can use a scanner and can stock shelves...well, maybe not you personally, but that's all that's required...oh, and maybe knowing how to operate a Microwave for the CP hotdogs and put fresh sausages on that funny rolling display thingy.

[FiftyTwo]

I agree, in general, that Thailand isn't a place to come to find a job and earn money OR buy a bar and get rich!

My problem is I have enough to live well for 15 years but might live another 40. Because bank interest is so low there is no way to leverage any reasonable income from it - deposited into a bank at somewhere near 3% I run out in 15 years. However I hope I can easily buy one, or a few, small business that, together earn 30K Baht per month. It doesn't matter to me if it is one, or more, one-person noodle shop(s), or a computer repair shop with 6 staff, or a dairy with 10 staff!

BTW:

Doing some math: 1,000 baht per day / 100 customers = 10B net profit per customer. 20B per customer is required if only 50 customers per day or 50B from 20 customers - so... finding a business that will average that isn't unreasonable to expect when I'm not as concerned with the purchase price, the initial income or the break-even time!

I have a friend whose retirement plan is condos in Pattaya.

A 5M condo brings him a return of 25k/month.

Unless civil war breaks out, his income is pretty steady.

[FiftyTwo]

On the off chance that "Reckless Ron" is a serious poster, and not a troll.

1. Minimize the risk to your capital.

If you loose your capital, it's time to go back to farang land with your tail between your legs.

2. Your posts match your name "Reckless", be very sceptical of any PM's or offers of help in reply to this post.

There are a lot of people who would love to separate you from your nest egg.

3. Do you have an honest, hard working Thai wife / partner that you trust?

Much easier to make a business work with a good local partner.

4. Making 30k a month should be easy, I can think of 10+ ideas that have a high probability of working.

None require > 1 Million Baht capital investment.

All require a bit of hard work by your Thai partner & your support.

and could you share those 10+ ideas

or will you take them to the grave ?

give us some advise, how, where to invest... i got some spare change to invest as the bank intrest return is even lower than last time

I'm not sure I would want investment advice from someone who can't spell "lose".

[eyecatcher]

I agree, in general, that Thailand isn't a place to come to find a job and earn money OR buy a bar and get rich!

My problem is I have enough to live well for 15 years but might live another 40. Because bank interest is so low there is no way to leverage any reasonable income from it - deposited into a bank at somewhere near 3% I run out in 15 years. However I hope I can easily buy one, or a few, small business that, together earn 30K Baht per month. It doesn't matter to me if it is one, or more, one-person noodle shop(s), or a computer repair shop with 6 staff, or a dairy with 10 staff!

BTW:

Doing some math: 1,000 baht per day / 100 customers = 10B net profit per customer. 20B per customer is required if only 50 customers per day or 50B from 20 customers - so... finding a business that will average that isn't unreasonable to expect when I'm not as concerned with the purchase price, the initial income or the break-even time!

I have a friend whose retirement plan is condos in Pattaya.

A 5M condo brings him a return of 25k/month.

Unless civil war breaks out, his income is pretty steady.

So he had 5million and he thought it wise to put it all at risk to see it dribble back in at 25k for the next 20yrs.

That's not a retirement plan that's someone who already has more money than sense....it would seem

[FiftyTwo]

So he had 5million and he thought it wise to put it all at risk to see it dribble back in at 25k for the next 20yrs.

That's not a retirement plan that's someone who already has more money than sense....it would seem

5% return with a fairly secure fixed asset and little effort is about as good as it gets these days.

He has several already and plans to buy more.

Edited February 3, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[RecklessRon]

If, as you say "I'm not interested in the ROI. Most investors are looking to recoup their investment in 5-10 years. I'm just looking for a perpetual ATM so I don't care if it breaks even in 15 or even 20!", then why not buy an annuity instead of buying a business?

There are no available interest rates that will take the amount of money I have and turn it into 30K B per month for the next 40 years. An annuity will pay until its term ends and then there is nothing left.

Therefore I want to buy a business - that will generate that amount of profit - a business will continue to do so forever and still have a resale/inheritance value.

[FiftyTwo]

If, as you say "I'm not interested in the ROI. Most investors are looking to recoup their investment in 5-10 years. I'm just looking for a perpetual ATM so I don't care if it breaks even in 15 or even 20!", then why not buy an annuity instead of buying a business?

There are no available interest rates that will take the amount of money I have and turn it into 30K B per month for the next 40 years. An annuity will pay until its term ends and then there is nothing left.

Therefore I want to buy a business - that will generate that amount of profit - a business will continue to do so forever and still have a resale/inheritance value.

Most annuities pay until the policyholders life ends.

Canada Life offer returns of about 4% for the main policyholder reducing to 2% to his spouse after his death.

But you lose the investment immediately.

Edited February 3, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[RecklessRon]

If you work in it yourself you would need a workpermit and a minimum income of 50,000 Baht a month from it to be within the requirements of a workpermit. Add the high cost of starting and running a business here legally and you'll need a much higher gain on it than 30,000 Baht.

Remember most people come to Thailand to spend money, the whole country is geared up to help you with this. Making money is a whole different ball game and you'll find it very difficult!

I do NOT need any more - you are missing the point. I want a business that generates 30K NET PROFIT. Costs, red tape, etc. are IRRELEVANT as they occur before NET. I don't care if the overhead is 1,000,000 baht per month I only care if the business is stable and generates a NET profit of 30K!

[RecklessRon]

If, as you say "I'm not interested in the ROI. Most investors are looking to recoup their investment in 5-10 years. I'm just looking for a perpetual ATM so I don't care if it breaks even in 15 or even 20!", then why not buy an annuity instead of buying a business?

There are no available interest rates that will take the amount of money I have and turn it into 30K B per month for the next 40 years. An annuity will pay until its term ends and then there is nothing left.

Therefore I want to buy a business - that will generate that amount of profit - a business will continue to do so forever and still have a resale/inheritance value.

Most annuities pay until the policyholders life ends.

Canada Life offer returns of about 4% for the main policyholder reducing to 2% to his spouse after his death.

But you lose the investment immediately.

FYI: 4% isn't enough - I would need double that, hence the need for a business that earns money.

[FiftyTwo]

FYI: 4% isn't enough - I would need double that, hence the need for a business that earns money.

You don't have enough money to live in Thailand.

You don't have enough money to get a VISA either.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.

If any of us could get a lifetime return of 30k/month on an investment of 5Mbht, we would have already.

You could live here legally for 10 years with a VISA on 500k/year.

But that's about it.

Edited February 3, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[NBD]

Might be easier if you give us an idea of how much capital you have to start with?

[ThaiPauly]

If you work in it yourself you would need a workpermit and a minimum income of 50,000 Baht a month from it to be within the requirements of a workpermit. Add the high cost of starting and running a business here legally and you'll need a much higher gain on it than 30,000 Baht.

Remember most people come to Thailand to spend money, the whole country is geared up to help you with this. Making money is a whole different ball game and you'll find it very difficult!

I do NOT need any more - you are missing the point. I want a business that generates 30K NET PROFIT. Costs, red tape, etc. are IRRELEVANT as they occur before NET. I don't care if the overhead is 1,000,000 baht per month I only care if the business is stable and generates a NET profit of 30K!

I am sorry to say that I really think you have your work cut out to achieve what you want...many have been there before you and failed. Plus why would anyone on this forum want to share with you a good idea to make money...they would be doing it themselves, and forget about buying an existing business, the only businesses for sale are losing money ...people don't sell profitable businesses, they keep them.

My advice is keep your money in your pocket and remember the saying..."If you want to make a small fortune in Thailand start with a large one". I have tried the small business idea myself, twice, abject failure, yet I ran very profitable businesses in my home country. I did not need to make a lot, but made nothing for all the hard work I put in, so I gave up trying and am much happier and better off as a result..

If you want to give your wife/GF something to do......let her get a job, she won't make 30k a month but at least you won't be losing anything.

Good luck whatever you decide to do

[Notable]

That last comment about making a large fortune into a small one sums up the kind of negative ex pat attitude you're going to get on here. There are plenty of people who've come to live in Thailand and made a good living, by working hard with a good business idea. Mac Walen for example, whatever you do research it as thoroughly as possible and remember, nothing ventured nothing grained!

[RecklessRon]

if you find that golden business that brings in 30k a month for a small investment, give me poke ...

who would not want to get that kind of money (almost teacher wage) for doing, well, lets say, do nothing much

Most readers seem to be missing the point. I didn't say I was broke or that I wanted a golden cash cow that would generate huge profit from next to no investment. More details were requested so here they are:

1). I am 55 year old British Canadian with dual Citizenship - so I can use whichever one is best and change from one to the other should circumstances change.

2). I am about to get a retirement visa (the 800,000 + >50 years old + have 1 year lease, which will turn into a condo/house when I decide what/where the business will be) although that could change now that I'm looking into buying a business.

3). I can put down several million and get by for a good length of time before the income reaches 30K.

4). I could form a new Thai company under the current rules but I have access to a Thai company that I bought in the 90s. I got it as a special deal - I had a skill set in (mainframe) computers that was wanted at the time so I was granted a single-person (consulting) company and was allow to hire myself as a required falang. I still have that company and can use it if I choose simply by re-filing the paperwork for my work permit. (please don't ask me how you can get one unless you can time travel and have special skills - or bitch about the legal issues as I don't care to hear about it - that's something for my lawyers worry about!).

5). I understand business. I was an international computer consultant and have worked with, and advised, businesses of all types and sizes.

6). I will hire all the necessary lawyers, accountants and staff and I am well aware of the need to CONSTANTLY keep tabs on the staff, as well as the lawyers, bankers and accountants!

7). I will not choose a business that I won't like working in, that requires more than 30-40 hours per week, is inherently unstable, is illegal, is in the sex industry, tourism, is a bar or fixed-location restaurant or massage parlor, etc.

8). I don't care about ROI. If it takes 12 years to get to the 'break-even' point that would be fine with me so long as it continues to generate 30K+ per month. IMHO: There have to be opportunities for successful business that are being turned down because the investors want their ROI (to reach break-even) within 3-5 years and discard all feasible opportunities that take longer than 7!

9). IF the business won't return that much, or will return 10 times that much, it is NOT the business I am looking for.

10). I want everything to be legal and above board. That said I will also pay the tea-money (bribes) as required.

FYI: I understand that investing 500,000 and asking for a return of 30K per month is living in dreamland

BUT there must be a stable, viable business of some size that will return 30K baht per month

SO the question is what, where and how much it will cost to buy?

11). I would entertain the idea of partnerships if the business is right AND the deal is sound AND I like the partner AND believe I can both work with them and they would be 'safe' to do business with.

12). I don't drink except for special occasions (last drink was over a week ago and there is a bottle of whiskey in my fridge) so I'm not a lounge lizard or bar stool drunk or lazy - just old and no longer willing to work myself to death.

Edited February 3, 2014 by RecklessRon

[belg]

dairy queen & donuts & fries... you can see the thai populace getting fatter... must come from somewhere... batch of softice icecream, loads of sugar & fat... cannot be that expensive... and customers all the time, they are hungry