Cost of buying/starting small business generation 30K/mth profit?

[prestburypark]

30k baht a month from a 1 million baht investment? I do considerably better with no ties...to a country or tax system.

Online is the world now and the overhead is negligible. Why even contemplate the stress of a Thai based biz?

30k baht a month is really aiming low, what kinda life can you have on that? Just exist barely.

[metaben]

Hi Ron,

Just an idea but if you have a BOI dormant company or similar, and mainframe experience, you could probably set up a server farm.

Find the local backbone, buy used/reformed servers, network them and add services.

I'm sure you'll find the golden/wooden/stainless steel goose if you look hard enough.

Best of luck

Ben

[Oscar2]

30k baht a month from a 1 million baht investment? I do considerably better with no ties...to a country or tax system.

Online is the world now and the overhead is negligible. Why even contemplate the stress of a Thai based biz?

30k baht a month is really aiming low, what kinda life can you have on that? Just exist barely.

he never said 1 million THB investment. he means considerably more as i understand it which is why the whole thing is ridiculous. why bother with the risk in Thailand when conservative investments will bring you 30K which i agree is a not a life at all in Thailand; only an existence.

[Lockheed]

dairy queen & donuts & fries... you can see the thai populace getting fatter... must come from somewhere... batch of softice icecream, loads of sugar & fat... cannot be that expensive... and customers all the time, they are hungry

The donuts in Thailand taste like cardboard and lack sugar. The icing looks great but once you sink you're teeth into them, then you realize something is missing big time.

I reckon selling good chocolates would be winner. I gave up on the kit Kats, they tasted crap, yet they're beautiful in OZ, it's hard to find chocolate that hits the spot.

[NBD]

Umm 30k a month on a million baht is 36%. If you can consistently get that without a healthy dose of risk then please send me a PM.

[RecklessRon]

30k baht a month from a 1 million baht investment? I do considerably better with no ties...to a country or tax system.

Online is the world now and the overhead is negligible. Why even contemplate the stress of a Thai based biz?

30k baht a month is really aiming low, what kinda life can you have on that? Just exist barely.

he never said 1 million THB investment. he means considerably more as i understand it which is why the whole thing is ridiculous. why bother with the risk in Thailand when conservative investments will bring you 30K which i agree is a not a life at all in Thailand; only an existence.

As I've said before I don't have enough funds to earn 30K in interest whether in term deposits or bonds but if you know of a safe investment yielding 8% or more that may continue to do so for at least a decade I'd be interested. I have zero interest in stocks as they are a fools game.

As for my cost of living: I require a roof over my head with a bed, aircon and computer/TV setup, clean clothes and sheets, a hot shower, western plumbing, a fridge and stove and tasty food in reasonable quantities. Anything extra is a bonus - like a dog, a yard for the dog to run in and maybe a wife/gf.

I am happy with what I have and my needs are filled so I don't waste time making myself unhappy wanting things I don't have or working extra hours to get them - some may recognize that concept, I'm sure I learned it somewhere...

Anyway I'm underfunded by about 25% if I live 30 more years. That would be a conservative estimate, barring accident or illness, based on family longevity and my current age so I'm looking at ways to use the funds I have now to secure an income that will last. Should I live 20 more years just off interest I'd limited to 700ish B per day and wind up with zero left. Then I could run back to Canada at age 75 and let the taxpayer take care of me but I'd rather figure out a way to stay (and yes I do have very good health and accident insurance here in Thailand).

I do have several million baht but I'm not about to post the number. Suffice to say it is not enough to earn 30K in interest.

Lastly, please don't denigrate my post. If you don't like it don't read OR post on it but don't say this is an exercise in futility. The bottom line is that if there are no falang in Chiang Mai earning at least 30K per month from a business that isn't illegal I would be very, very surprised. I suspect many will be making 50K or even 100K per month. BTW: I think differently than most about how hard you must work after your business is established and running smoothly. Basically if you want to make as much as you can then you work as long as you can. Take almost any stable business that currently requires 10-12 hours a day 6-7 days a week to make 70K per month and cut that back (with sound judgement, experimentation and metrics) to 8 hours * 5 days and it should make over 30K easily. I recommend any skeptics read 10 Acre's Enough - it is time well spent.

Edited February 3, 2014 by RecklessRon

[RecklessRon]

Hi Ron,

Just an idea but if you have a BOI dormant company or similar, and mainframe experience, you could probably set up a server farm.

Find the local backbone, buy used/reformed servers, network them and add services.

I'm sure you'll find the golden/wooden/stainless steel goose if you look hard enough.

Best of luck

Ben

Thanks, good thought. FYI: One of my many jobs in computers was the Lan Administrator for CFB (Canadian Forces Base) Petawawa. I could easily do this sort of thing if I wanted to work but I want to buy a business and let others work! I'd never be able to let anyone else do the work, in a business in my field, because I'd always be able to do it a lot better and faster. So... getting into server farms would almost certainly put me back into 70+ hour work weeks - its in my nature as I spent my life in computers that way. That's why I'm not doing computer consulting work in Bangkok (or HK or SP). I'm looking for something much more laid back (and if you think you know any computer hardware environment anywhere on the planet that is truly laid back I have a bridge in Brooklyn you may want to buy...)

[FiftyTwo]

The bottom line is that if there are no falang in Chiang Mai earning at least 30K per month from a business that isn't illegal I would be very, very surprised. I suspect many will be making 50K or even 100K per month. BTW: I think differently than most about how hard you must work after your business is established and running smoothly. Basically if you want to make as much as you can then you work as long as you can. Take almost any stable business that currently requires 10-12 hours a day 6-7 days a week to make 70K per month and cut that back (with sound judgement, experimentation and metrics) to 8 hours * 5 days and it should make over 30K easily. I recommend any skeptics read 10 Acre's Enough - it is time well spent.

Well, let's itemise minimum running costs for a legit foreigner business.

Two Thai staff, minimum wage + social = 20k/month.

Business premises, shopfront off main road, (with accomodation), 8k/month.

Utils 2k/month inc internet.

So we are up to 30k/month before you make any profit. But you do get a place to live included.

Remember, to be legal, you can't do anything yourself (10 acres enough employing staff to do everything?).

Edited February 3, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[jackr]

Two words.

7/11

That's three numbers and a slash. A Maccie D's might make some serious coin, but with a massive outlay.

Op, with your experience, how's about a bank of servers and run a hosting firm? Sites are locked in for a year or two and pay by CC. And/or build a killer site and sit back on Adsense--very fickle, though, through personal.

I also like the idea of renting out Honda Waves--five bikes a day would bring you your grand. Pay a monkey mechanic peanuts, or sell em off after couple years old to minimize maintenance issues... these things will run and run.

[NBD]

It sounds like you're pretty close.

If you reckon 8% investment would be enough can't you get a couple more years work back home (or anywhere) and get yourself in a position to live off dividends and bond yields?

Keep your cash in the bank, maybe do a few terms teaching here to earn your 30k while building up more funds, learning the language and seeing various bullet proof business ideas come and go.

If you still want to dive in and start your own business then you will be in a much better position to do so without needing the advice and derision of ua lot.

Seems like it would be a hell of a shame (and on the face of it quite likely) that you would lose money and find yourself much worse off in a few years without the chance of going back to work.

[Notable]

If you make a really concerted effort with the language you can earn very good money translating documents. I make upwards of 1k an hour with private work and there's plenty of demand.

[RecklessRon]

Fifty-Two: Point taken. I agree 10ae has the concept of being self-sufficient and the precept of him doing it all by himself but the fact was he hired experts for advice and grunts for labour as needed.

I morph 10ae from a tale of a hard working man to the concept of being satisfied with 'enough'. Hence the low work hour commitment. Enough is enough and I WILL take the time to smell the roses.

So if the law says I need to do something that affects the overhead that's okay as I don't much care what the overhead is except as it relates to profit. What I mean by that is a business that has double the overhead as another business doesn't matter to me if they both net out 30K. For example a restaurant (not my choice of business) that has 4 employees vs one with only 2. I don't much care about the extra overhead if they are both generating the same net profit. Obviously a restaurant with 4000 employees generating the same amount of profit would be ridiculous so don't take this statement to the extreme its just an example to show that I'm flexible!

Edited February 3, 2014 by RecklessRon

[RecklessRon]

NDB: Wild horses couldn't drag me back to my old career or any other job working for someone else that pays under $US100/hr or requires over 40 hours per week.

Edited February 3, 2014 by RecklessRon

[dru2]

Two words.

7/11

That's three numbers and a slash. A Maccie D's might make some serious coin, but with a massive outlay.

Op, with your experience, how's about a bank of servers and run a hosting firm? Sites are locked in for a year or two and pay by CC. And/or build a killer site and sit back on Adsense--very fickle, though, through personal.

I also like the idea of renting out Honda Waves--five bikes a day would bring you your grand. Pay a monkey mechanic peanuts, or sell em off after couple years old to minimize maintenance issues... these things will run and run.

...Pay a monkey mechanic peanuts, or sell em off after couple years old to minimize maintenance issues... these things will run and run.

You need to lose that attitude for a start. Treat a Thai employee decently and with respect if you want value for money. I've had the same office manager for 18 years and he's just fine.

[binjalin]

buy couple condos

[BKKdreaming]

is there a website for Franchise businesses ?

at least that might give you an idea of what works in other countries.

I see a lot of small stalls selling waffles and crapes around BKK Chinatown....

search mexician curros on google to see what sells around the southwest USA , everyone loves SUGAR !

[haybilly]

is there a website for Franchise businesses ?

at least that might give you an idea of what works in other countries.

I see a lot of small stalls selling waffles and crapes around BKK Chinatown....

search mexician curros on google to see what sells around the southwest USA , everyone loves SUGAR !

As for the website for Franchises--go back a few pages--it has been posted.

Ron--good luck, mate--you've certainly shown that you are a fairly cool customer--I would have closed the thread a while back after some of the comments that came in to you; why people feel the need to 'denigrate' [ your word and an excellent choice] your Topic is beyond me--give a guy helpful advice but please don't keep calling him an idiot--he's demonstrated on several occasions that he is no fool; many people are making assumptions about his total worth, his reasons for wanting this business, and so on--many seem incorrect.

I say good luck to you--and I would like to be in your position of already owning a Thai Company plus with your existing skill-set; you won't starve whatever happens.

[belg]

why not a create a website where farang can come to post and moan about all the bad things happening in thailand

and generate money from Google adsense & advertisers

oh i forgot, Thaivisa is there already and nr 1

would really be interested what they generate per day/month with Adsense...

[eyecatcher]

dairy queen & donuts & fries... you can see the thai populace getting fatter... must come from somewhere... batch of softice icecream, loads of sugar & fat... cannot be that expensive... and customers all the time, they are hungry

Good response. Like i said something people from all walks of life will buy. Icecream shop(s) Bakery(s) Thais will buy, westerners will buy and the Chinese will buy. Everyone will always buy and it will never go out of fashion...

Bahtsold and Thai visa classifieds both have bakeries and ice cream shops for sale...

But the problem is, OP is a foreigner and can't work in the business.

So he has to employ Thais, who will steal from him, turn up when they feel like it, quit with no notice, etc.

A constant turnover of staff who have to be trained to do the work, again and again and again.

Then, as a foreigner, everyone will be putting the squeeze on, protection for the police, special price on stock, etc.

Thai working for himself Vs foreigner employing two Thais.

The business costs are going to be way different.

You are a drama queen!

You have been surrounded by friends who have made those mistakes,....but I am also one of your friends and you have said I am one of the few to be very successful.

I haven't encountered any of those negatives you list as you know.

I put the work in to establish the business and I have the best staff and now you know I have a lot of free time to do what I want.

On a side note whether or not your business if set up as a company or partnership or even in a sole thai name...one bit of advice....always have bank accounts that only you can access, and get the edm credit card to transfer direct to your account...and empty your till every day.

Never relinquish control.

[Notable]

My friend has a Mr Donut franchise and does very well but it requires a big investment. The staffing issues are apparently his biggest headache, the stealing never stops. He found out recently that someone was selling cups of coffee for half price. They were getting friends who worked near by to bring their own cups so the owner wouldn't notice cups going missing without sales. He's got CCTV in there now.

[belg]

CCTV, a must these days... one for the staff, one above the till, one in the resting place... in plain view for customers & staff, would that keep them in check ?

preferable with internet link, but they might just disable the router or something or blame it on TOT / CAT / TRUE if it would stop working ?

just wondering if those staff steal more from farang owner than thai owner ?

HEY

did i just come up with a brilliant franchise idea ?

spy on personel (lets call it steal prevention) from home or external company with INTERNET CCTV cameras

I got dibbs

any takers?

Edited February 4, 2014 by belg

[FiftyTwo]

dairy queen & donuts & fries... you can see the thai populace getting fatter... must come from somewhere... batch of softice icecream, loads of sugar & fat... cannot be that expensive... and customers all the time, they are hungry

Good response. Like i said something people from all walks of life will buy. Icecream shop(s) Bakery(s) Thais will buy, westerners will buy and the Chinese will buy. Everyone will always buy and it will never go out of fashion...

Bahtsold and Thai visa classifieds both have bakeries and ice cream shops for sale...

But the problem is, OP is a foreigner and can't work in the business.

So he has to employ Thais, who will steal from him, turn up when they feel like it, quit with no notice, etc.

A constant turnover of staff who have to be trained to do the work, again and again and again.

Then, as a foreigner, everyone will be putting the squeeze on, protection for the police, special price on stock, etc.

Thai working for himself Vs foreigner employing two Thais.

The business costs are going to be way different.

You are a drama queen!

You have been surrounded by friends who have made those mistakes,....but I am also one of your friends and you have said I am one of the few to be very successful.

I haven't encountered any of those negatives you list as you know.

I put the work in to establish the business and I have the best staff and now you know I have a lot of free time to do what I want.

Never relinquish control.

you suffer from at least three problems i mentioned.

flaky unreliable and overpaid staff, who want to leave with no notice.

you have to put in long hours yourself, as far as i see, almost no free time.

and thats just for a start.

your business is endless hassle, i just wouldnt want.

[Paangjang]

Three bakery/ ice cream/ coffee business' that do well. "Volcano" on Suthep road (Toast dessert) "Mr. Froyo" on Chaiyaphum road (Self serve Frozen yogurt) And "Hom coffee" on Muan Muang just before riders. Then there's places like Gecko, No. 1 bar etc. I think all of these places will last for a while.

[BuffaloRescue]

I say

Forget the starting a business idea.

You are farang. You live in Thailand. Make that your advantage.

There are many overseas companies who need reps and agents in Thailand. Take initiative (pick up the phone).

Thais can be difficult to work with. Your advantage you are not Thai.

This is what I did, im a rep. I oversee stuff and go to a meeting once a year in USA. Piss easy and lots of $$

[belg]

I say

Forget the starting a business idea.

You are farang. You live in Thailand. Make that your advantage.

There are many overseas companies who need reps and agents in Thailand. Take initiative (pick up the phone).

Thais can be difficult to work with. Your advantage you are not Thai.

This is what I did, im a rep. I oversee stuff and go to a meeting once a year in USA. Piss easy and lots of $$

a sales rep ? and dont you need to be able to speak thai with your suppliers or salesteam or whatever?

[RecklessRon]

I say

Forget the starting a business idea.

You are farang. You live in Thailand. Make that your advantage.

There are many overseas companies who need reps and agents in Thailand. Take initiative (pick up the phone).

Thais can be difficult to work with. Your advantage you are not Thai.

This is what I did, im a rep. I oversee stuff and go to a meeting once a year in USA. Piss easy and lots of $$

a sales rep ? and dont you need to be able to speak thai with your suppliers or salesteam or whatever?

I agree.

Plus... 'pick up the phone'? Exactly who would I be calling? Cold-calling large companies on the off chance they might need a Thai agent who is a falang that barely speaks Thai? Seems to me like a needle in a haystack and a hell of a long shot. Then comes the part where they ask about relevant experience and I explain I spent 30 years as an international computer consultant having zero to do with actual sales or sales staff or marketing or dealing with suppliers or ....

[beau thai]

I say

Forget the starting a business idea.

You are farang. You live in Thailand. Make that your advantage.

There are many overseas companies who need reps and agents in Thailand. Take initiative (pick up the phone).

Thais can be difficult to work with. Your advantage you are not Thai.

This is what I did, im a rep. I oversee stuff and go to a meeting once a year in USA. Piss easy and lots of $$

a sales rep ? and dont you need to be able to speak thai with your suppliers or salesteam or whatever?

I agree.

Plus... 'pick up the phone'? Exactly who would I be calling? Cold-calling large companies on the off chance they might need a Thai agent who is a falang that barely speaks Thai? Seems to me like a needle in a haystack and a hell of a long shot. Then comes the part where they ask about relevant experience and I explain I spent 30 years as an international computer consultant having zero to do with actual sales or sales staff or marketing or dealing with suppliers or ....

Just a thought Reckless Ron (and by the way you dont seem Reckless from your posts -au contraire!!). Now you have listed all the negatives (were you a banker once??!!) maybe try to list the positives eg

You are here

You are mature

You have time

You understand more about IT than most of us

You have personal attributes I assume-Honesty/integrity etc etc

You have more knowledge of how Thai life/business works than counterpatrts in Farangland (they know nothing!)

And maybe pm BuffaloBill who has made it work for him to seek more info.

And have another coffee - a shot of caffeine can work wonders 555

[RecklessRon]

That list is flattering but it doesn't help clarify where one would look for such a wonderful opportunity.

I'm going to assume that if BuffaloBill wanted to share more details he would have invited me to PM him or would have PM'd me (several people have) or will respond to my reply.

I have no doubt that somewhere in the world there is a company whom I could represent however I suspect the odds of discovering who and where are slim to none. I think this is one of those either 'being in the right place at the right time' or 'knowing the right people' type of thing.

BTW: I would have thought posting all the details that I have on this forum was a tad reckless...

Edited February 5, 2014 by RecklessRon

[simple1]

I say

Forget the starting a business idea.

You are farang. You live in Thailand. Make that your advantage.

There are many overseas companies who need reps and agents in Thailand. Take initiative (pick up the phone).

Thais can be difficult to work with. Your advantage you are not Thai.

This is what I did, im a rep. I oversee stuff and go to a meeting once a year in USA. Piss easy and lots of $$

a sales rep ? and dont you need to be able to speak thai with your suppliers or salesteam or whatever?

I agree.

Plus... 'pick up the phone'? Exactly who would I be calling? Cold-calling large companies on the off chance they might need a Thai agent who is a falang that barely speaks Thai? Seems to me like a needle in a haystack and a hell of a long shot. Then comes the part where they ask about relevant experience and I explain I spent 30 years as an international computer consultant having zero to do with actual sales or sales staff or marketing or dealing with suppliers or ....

If that's the case how do you expect to successfully run a SME in Thailand? Many of the attributes you say you don't have are a must in a self-managed SME, even at the retail level. Perhaps as already suggested a franchise is the way to go as operational processes & business analysis needs should be documented. Downside being it will probably require a heavy investment managing staff that will be a real challenge if your Thai is not proficient.

[Notable]

For anyone who's prepared to invest the time into learning Thai there are plenty of work opportunities. I translate documents for a company in BKK but there are many additional avenues of work for professional translators.