Cost of buying/starting small business generation 30K/mth profit?

[eyecatcher]

If you work in it yourself you would need a workpermit and a minimum income of 50,000 Baht a month from it to be within the requirements of a workpermit. Add the high cost of starting and running a business here legally and you'll need a much higher gain on it than 30,000 Baht.

Remember most people come to Thailand to spend money, the whole country is geared up to help you with this. Making money is a whole different ball game and you'll find it very difficult!

I do NOT need any more - you are missing the point. I want a business that generates 30K NET PROFIT. Costs, red tape, etc. are IRRELEVANT as they occur before NET. I don't care if the overhead is 1,000,000 baht per month I only care if the business is stable and generates a NET profit of 30K!

That's a pretty immature and naive approach to a business model.

I will give you the 30k every month and you don't need to lift a finger.

Give me the 1 million baht, then after 33 months we do it again with another million..

Coming on a forum to ask for ideas what to do and you are sadly defeated from the start.

Do your own research,drive round every day see what sells what doesn't, is there a gap for anything. Location most important get that wrong and bye bye money.

Meet people who are selling,find out why, learn about rental rates in different parts of the city and what you get for 7k against 50k.

Drop everything,girls,beer and committ 3 months to learn about what can be successful and understand whether you need w.p and accountant, legal partnership with thai or whether to risk just being the investor with a thai on all the records and business papers.

I found one of the biggest incentives for my drive to success was selling up in my home country. I don't have the option of going home crying as that means living with my mother and listening to her say ..I told you so.

To be honest though 30k clear every month you need to pretty sharp with everything,....but as you say initial investment is irrelevant.....the most stupid thing I have ever heard anyone say.

Try posting this thread on the business forum here and see how they react.

[RecklessRon]

If you work in it yourself you would need a workpermit and a minimum income of 50,000 Baht a month from it to be within the requirements of a workpermit. Add the high cost of starting and running a business here legally and you'll need a much higher gain on it than 30,000 Baht.

Remember most people come to Thailand to spend money, the whole country is geared up to help you with this. Making money is a whole different ball game and you'll find it very difficult!

I do NOT need any more - you are missing the point. I want a business that generates 30K NET PROFIT. Costs, red tape, etc. are IRRELEVANT as they occur before NET. I don't care if the overhead is 1,000,000 baht per month I only care if the business is stable and generates a NET profit of 30K!

I am sorry to say that I really think you have your work cut out to achieve what you want...many have been there before you and failed. Plus why would anyone on this forum want to share with you a good idea to make money...they would be doing it themselves, and forget about buying an existing business, the only businesses for sale are losing money ...people don't sell profitable businesses, they keep them.

My advice is keep your money in your pocket and remember the saying..."If you want to make a small fortune in Thailand start with a large one". I have tried the small business idea myself, twice, abject failure, yet I ran very profitable businesses in my home country. I did not need to make a lot, but made nothing for all the hard work I put in, so I gave up trying and am much happier and better off as a result..

If you want to give your wife/GF something to do......let her get a job, she won't make 30k a month but at least you won't be losing anything.

Good luck whatever you decide to do

Thanks but I am NOT looking for someone with an ingenious idea that I can steal or any kind of money making scheme.

I was asking for examples of solid business that are already in existence that are making that kind of money. They don't even have to be for sale I'm just trolling for possibilities. Also I won't be building next door to them and becoming their competition I will be building in a location that is under served (IMHO: Buying/building a bar/restaurant/massage parlor on a street that has 50 of them already is pure insanity!).

[RecklessRon]

FYI: 4% isn't enough - I would need double that, hence the need for a business that earns money.

You don't have enough money to live in Thailand.

You don't have enough money to get a VISA either.

Sorry, but that's the way it is.

If any of us could get a lifetime return of 30k/month on an investment of 5Mbht, we would have already.

You could live here legally for 10 years with a VISA on 500k/year.

But that's about it.

555

[DLock]

Ron,

It's sounds like you should visit the franchise show in July in Bangkok and see what new ideas there are or what franchises are you like.

Some franchises are not that expensive, a lot of the thinking has already been done and there are methods and marketing in place that you can benefit from.

It may then just come down to choosing something you are interested in, finding a suitable location and managing the business a few hours a day and doing some of the marketing. Easier to choose a proven business model than risk buying a random business with dodgy accounting.

...or doing an Internet business and forgetting bricks and mortar and working from home.

Good Luck.

[RecklessRon]

If you work in it yourself you would need a workpermit and a minimum income of 50,000 Baht a month from it to be within the requirements of a workpermit. Add the high cost of starting and running a business here legally and you'll need a much higher gain on it than 30,000 Baht.

Remember most people come to Thailand to spend money, the whole country is geared up to help you with this. Making money is a whole different ball game and you'll find it very difficult!

I do NOT need any more - you are missing the point. I want a business that generates 30K NET PROFIT. Costs, red tape, etc. are IRRELEVANT as they occur before NET. I don't care if the overhead is 1,000,000 baht per month I only care if the business is stable and generates a NET profit of 30K!

That's a pretty immature and naive approach to a business model.

I will give you the 30k every month and you don't need to lift a finger.

Give me the 1 million baht, then after 33 months we do it again with another million..

Coming on a forum to ask for ideas what to do and you are sadly defeated from the start.

Do your own research,drive round every day see what sells what doesn't, is there a gap for anything. Location most important get that wrong and bye bye money.

Meet people who are selling,find out why, learn about rental rates in different parts of the city and what you get for 7k against 50k.

Drop everything,girls,beer and committ 3 months to learn about what can be successful and understand whether you need w.p and accountant, legal partnership with thai or whether to risk just being the investor with a thai on all the records and business papers.

I found one of the biggest incentives for my drive to success was selling up in my home country. I don't have the option of going home crying as that means living with my mother and listening to her say ..I told you so.

To be honest though 30k clear every month you need to pretty sharp with everything,....but as you say initial investment is irrelevant.....the most stupid thing I have ever heard anyone say.

Try posting this thread on the business forum here and see how they react.

IMHO: The 'business' forum is a great place to be ripped off. As bad, and as warped, as some of the people in this forum are they aren't in the business of ripping people off. I don't think the same can be said about the majority of the posters in the business forum. While I would take everything said here with caution and skepticism I would take everything said there as misrepresentation at best and blatant lies as the norm.

As for the business model: Having a business model before you even know the type of business you are going into is beyond stupid! Once I figure out what business I want to be in I will work up a viable business model, until then is would be complete speculation!

Edited February 3, 2014 by RecklessRon

[RecklessRon]

Ron,

It's sounds like you should visit the franchise show in July in Bangkok and see what new ideas there are or what franchises are you like.

Some franchises are not that expensive, a lot of the thinking has already been done and there are methods and marketing in place that you can benefit from.

It may then just come down to choosing something you are interested in, finding a suitable location and managing the business a few hours a day and doing some of the marketing. Easier to choose a proven business model than risk buying a random business with dodgy accounting.

...or doing an Internet business and forgetting bricks and mortar and working from home.

Good Luck.

This is EXACTLY the type of reply I was looking for.

Thanks!

I'll watch for this - anyone with info on that franchise show (date, location, reservations, etc.) please let me know.

[fishbrando]

Ron, you say things like you don't care about ROI as long as you get your 30k baht/month, but clearly you do care because you're not buying a 4% Single Premium Immediate Annuity (SPIA) which would fit your needs perfectly. Buying Consolidated Edison (ED) will also give you a 4.6% dividend that is pretty rock-solid.

A better way to ask the question might be: I'm starting out with 500k baht (or whatever your starting amount is) and looking to turn that into a 30k/month semi-pasive income stream via a business, how can I go about it?

It also sounds like you're willing to put in some sweat equity at first as long as it drops off later - is this what you mean by "I don't care about ROI"?

Answer: the best way is probably to set up a business that caters to foreigners with money, which probably means providing services to tourists or perhaps an outsourcing operation for design or software work. Real-estate services for expats might be a good way, too.

Edited February 3, 2014 by fishbrando

[RecklessRon]

Ron, you say things like you don't care about ROI as long as you get your 30k baht/month, but clearly you do care because you're not buying a 4% Single Premium Immediate Annuity (SPIA) which would fit your needs perfectly. Buying Consolidated Edison (ED) will also give you a 4.6% dividend that is pretty rock-solid.

A better way to ask the question might be: I'm starting out with 500k baht (or whatever your starting amount is) and looking to turn that into a 30k/month semi-pasive income stream via a business, how can I go about it?

It also sounds like you're willing to put in some sweat equity at first as long as it drops off later - is this what you mean by "I don't care about ROI"?

Answer: the best way is probably to set up a business that caters to foreigners with money, which probably means providing services to tourists or perhaps an outsourcing operation for design or software work. Real-estate services for expats might be a good way, too.

What I mean by 'I don't care about ROI' is that I only care about the ongoing income. I'm not concern that I get my money back inside a specific period of time. Most investors want to get their money back within 3-5 years and some are willing to invest for 7-8 years. I can afford to take up to 12 years to break even as I am not concerned with the initial purchase price being returned quickly - only that it will generate the 30K and continue to do so forever (so long as I work the business properly).

As for the annuities - as I said I would need to get 8%. 4 or 4.6 is not enough plus there is nothing left at the end of the annuities period (even a for life annuity). If I buy a business there may be something that can be inherited.

[DLock]

Ron,

It's sounds like you should visit the franchise show in July in Bangkok and see what new ideas there are or what franchises are you like.

Some franchises are not that expensive, a lot of the thinking has already been done and there are methods and marketing in place that you can benefit from.

It may then just come down to choosing something you are interested in, finding a suitable location and managing the business a few hours a day and doing some of the marketing. Easier to choose a proven business model than risk buying a random business with dodgy accounting.

...or doing an Internet business and forgetting bricks and mortar and working from home.

Good Luck.

This is EXACTLY the type of reply I was looking for.

Thanks!

I'll watch for this - anyone with info on that franchise show (date, location, reservations, etc.) please let me know.

Ron,

Here is the website for the show that have dates and a list of confirmed attendees.

I highly recommend it as the best place under one roof to explore all the franchises that are established or new opportunities looking for Partners in Thailand.

http://www.thailandfranchising.com/2013/

Good Luck.

[Aceicol]

Does the business have to be in Thailand? Why not buy a couple of houses in either the UK or Canada then rent them out. I'm Welsh you can buy houses in the valleys for about £60k then rent them for about £400 p/m, or in Cardiff a three bedroomed family home for about £150k returning rent of around £800 per month. Not spectacular but would be a safe long term investment, in a lot more stable country than Thailand.

You can just hand over the property to a letting agency and they will do all the work for you and once a month you'll have money appear in your account.

Downsides are that you'll be susceptible to exchange rate changes, but this can be a pro as well as a con.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Aceicol

[a99az]

Set up somthing back home to make money easy and less risk.

[fishbrando]

What I mean by 'I don't care about ROI' is that I only care about the ongoing income. I'm not concern that I get my money back inside a specific period of time. Most investors want to get their money back within 3-5 years and some are willing to invest for 7-8 years. I can afford to take up to 12 years to break even as I am not concerned with the initial purchase price being returned quickly - only that it will generate the 30K and continue to do so forever (so long as I work the business properly).

As for the annuities - as I said I would need to get 8%. 4 or 4.6 is not enough plus there is nothing left at the end of the annuities period (even a for life annuity). If I buy a business there may be something that can be inherited.

Understood - you only care about the eventual income stream.

Just wanted to let you know that it is a bit confusing because there is a financial equivalence between ROI and income stream - so saying that you don't care about ROI is misleading.

[FiftyTwo]

Buy 3x studio condos and rent them for 10k each per month.

To do this in a %100 legal way requires a business license and tax certificate correct?

Nah, just use a management firm and declare the income.

[FiftyTwo]

Does the business have to be in Thailand? Why not buy a couple of houses in either the UK or Canada then rent them out. I'm Welsh you can buy houses in the valleys for about £60k then rent them for about £400 p/m, or in Cardiff a three bedroomed family home for about £150k returning rent of around £800 per month. Not spectacular but would be a safe long term investment, in a lot more stable country than Thailand.

You can just hand over the property to a letting agency and they will do all the work for you and once a month you'll have money appear in your account.

Downsides are that you'll be susceptible to exchange rate changes, but this can be a pro as well as a con.

Quite a lot of towns, you can rent to the council, and the council sub-lets as community housing.

They will take a 3-5 year let and repair/redecorate for the contract end.

[FiftyTwo]

If I buy a business there may be something that can be inherited.

Unlikely in Thailand.

Most foreigners make a 100% loss in a fairly short time.

Actually, most Thais make a 100% loss in a fairly short time too.

Edited February 3, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[RecklessRon]

What I mean by 'I don't care about ROI' is that I only care about the ongoing income. I'm not concern that I get my money back inside a specific period of time. Most investors want to get their money back within 3-5 years and some are willing to invest for 7-8 years. I can afford to take up to 12 years to break even as I am not concerned with the initial purchase price being returned quickly - only that it will generate the 30K and continue to do so forever (so long as I work the business properly).

As for the annuities - as I said I would need to get 8%. 4 or 4.6 is not enough plus there is nothing left at the end of the annuities period (even a for life annuity). If I buy a business there may be something that can be inherited.

Understood - you only care about the eventual income stream.

Just wanted to let you know that it is a bit confusing because there is a financial equivalence between ROI and income stream - so saying that you don't care about ROI is misleading.

Yes, you are correct, I should have been more clear.

I am only interested in achieving the income stream and don't care about the time it takes to recoup my initial investment and I don't care about the purchase price required to achieve that income so long as it is within my means.

It could be making nuts or bolts, a garage/repair shop or a 7-11-type franchise. Obviously the lower the purchase price the better but I am looking for stability and income so I'm not interested in 'low money up front with very high income' ventures.

[impulse]

Watched a group on one of the Korean walking streets in Seoul making a mint. It was so fascinating had to sit for awhile and watch- and count.

They had a tiny counter with some miniscule square footage behind a wall- space that wasn't big enough for any normal business to operate. Behind the wall was a soft serve ice cream setup. Only the taps were visible- about 4 or 5 of them, each with a different flavor. I suspect they had someone behind the wall keeping the machines full because they were selling the ice cream so fast.

2 guys were keeping the line in order (quite a feat!), one girl was taking money and another one filling the cones. They were a well oiled machine and they pulled well over 200 ice cream cones an hour the whole time I sat there, dumbfounded. Their price was significantly lower than the sit-down ice cream shops, but still quite profitable- about $1 if I recall.

The ice cream flavors in Seoul weren't limited to the normal vanilla/chocolate, some were pretty exotic- and apparently dialed in to local tastebuds. The price for the more exotic flavors was higher- and people paid it.

Then I went to a different Seoul walking street and found another group doing pretty much the same. Can't imagine you couldn't do the same thing out of a small kiosk in any busy street in Thailand- then expand to several operations once you had a reputation.

Edited February 3, 2014 by impulse

[SiggiCM]

very funny, look for this:

1. don't have to work too hard

2. get 30000 baht per month

3. not trouble

4. legal in thailand

not possible, and if nobody will tell you, because this person who know how to do will be a very rich person, and for sure not tell you here for sure,

work legal ith bussiness = 60000 baht monthly income, what you have to tax, a 2000000 baht investment for limited company + 200000 Baht costs for set up this company, include you have to give 51% to 2 thai partners,

employ minimum 4 thai stuff with the costs,

I live also in CM but the kind of business you look for does not exist in thailand,

because this would like to do about 10000 foreigners in CM also and dont forget the 450 000 thai´s in Chiang mai who not make even 12000 Baht per month,

I dont know how much money you have to invest, you can buy or built good busness in CM but not with easy life,

good running business is expensive 1 to 1.5 yearly profit to buy. and every good business in thailand expect from you 10 -14 hours per day to work, very good nerves and be ready to loose your investment within 1 week

[dru2]

very funny, look for this:

1. don't have to work too hard

2. get 30000 baht per month

3. not trouble

4. legal in thailand

not possible, and if nobody will tell you, because this person who know how to do will be a very rich person, and for sure not tell you here for sure,

work legal ith bussiness = 60000 baht monthly income, what you have to tax, a 2000000 baht investment for limited company + 200000 Baht costs for set up this company, include you have to give 51% to 2 thai partners,

employ minimum 4 thai stuff with the costs,

I live also in CM but the kind of business you look for does not exist in thailand,

because this would like to do about 10000 foreigners in CM also and dont forget the 450 000 thai´s in Chiang mai who not make even 12000 Baht per month,

I dont know how much money you have to invest, you can buy or built good busness in CM but not with easy life,

good running business is expensive 1 to 1.5 yearly profit to buy. and every good business in thailand expect from you 10 -14 hours per day to work, very good nerves and be ready to loose your investment within 1 week

Not true Siggi. I have done it and lived in Chiang Mai for more than 20 years - but I do have to work hard, and it does have to be a business Thais (and even most other Farang) can't emulate.

[BlackArtemis]

I've had an idea of the back burner for awhile, problem is 1 I am shit with business, 2 I don't want to dedicate 10hrs a day to a job, 3 I know that in a year or less Thais would find a way to copy my product, despite it being inferior, and sell it for less since their standard of living is lower than what I would be happy with.

So I just keep it in my back pocket.

[Paangjang]

dairy queen & donuts & fries... you can see the thai populace getting fatter... must come from somewhere... batch of softice icecream, loads of sugar & fat... cannot be that expensive... and customers all the time, they are hungry

Good response. Like i said something people from all walks of life will buy. Icecream shop(s) Bakery(s) Thais will buy, westerners will buy and the Chinese will buy. Everyone will always buy as long as they enjoy it and it will never go out of fashion...

Bahtsold and Thai visa classifieds both have bakeries and ice cream shops for sale, i checked...

Edited February 3, 2014 by Paangjang

[dru2]

I've had an idea of the back burner for awhile, problem is 1 I am shit with business, 2 I don't want to dedicate 10hrs a day to a job, 3 I know that in a year or less Thais would find a way to copy my product, despite it being inferior, and sell it for less since their standard of living is lower than what I would be happy with. So I just keep it in my back pocket.

I don't do business with Thais. Everything is overseas - UK, US, Japan even China. Reason is it's difficult to get paid. Anyone starting a business in Thailand would do well to remember this.

[FiftyTwo]

dairy queen & donuts & fries... you can see the thai populace getting fatter... must come from somewhere... batch of softice icecream, loads of sugar & fat... cannot be that expensive... and customers all the time, they are hungry

Good response. Like i said something people from all walks of life will buy. Icecream shop(s) Bakery(s) Thais will buy, westerners will buy and the Chinese will buy. Everyone will always buy and it will never go out of fashion...

Bahtsold and Thai visa classifieds both have bakeries and ice cream shops for sale...

But the problem is, OP is a foreigner and can't work in the business.

So he has to employ Thais, who will steal from him, turn up when they feel like it, quit with no notice, etc.

A constant turnover of staff who have to be trained to do the work, again and again and again.

Then, as a foreigner, everyone will be putting the squeeze on, protection for the police, special price on stock, etc.

Thai working for himself Vs foreigner employing two Thais.

The business costs are going to be way different.

[BlackArtemis]

I've had an idea of the back burner for awhile, problem is 1 I am shit with business, 2 I don't want to dedicate 10hrs a day to a job, 3 I know that in a year or less Thais would find a way to copy my product, despite it being inferior, and sell it for less since their standard of living is lower than what I would be happy with. So I just keep it in my back pocket.

I don't do business with Thais. Everything is overseas - UK, US, Japan even China. Reason is it's difficult to get paid. Anyone starting a business in Thailand would do well to remember this.

My idea revolves around food that I love and is really not found in CM except for 2 places and they don't focus on it, and the cost of ingredients are cheap. Mix that with the fact that I know how to cater it to Thai tastes (and have with success) and I know it would sell, I also know I would run into problems quickly.

[Paangjang]

dairy queen & donuts & fries... you can see the thai populace getting fatter... must come from somewhere... batch of softice icecream, loads of sugar & fat... cannot be that expensive... and customers all the time, they are hungry

Good response. Like i said something people from all walks of life will buy. Icecream shop(s) Bakery(s) Thais will buy, westerners will buy and the Chinese will buy. Everyone will always buy and it will never go out of fashion...

Bahtsold and Thai visa classifieds both have bakeries and ice cream shops for sale...

But the problem is, OP is a foreigner and can't work in the business.

So he has to employ Thais, who will steal from him, turn up when they feel like it, quit with no notice, etc.

A constant turnover of staff who have to be trained to do the work, again and again and again.

Then, as a foreigner, everyone will be putting the squeeze on, protection for the police, special price on stock, etc.

Thai working for himself Vs foreigner employing two Thais.

The business costs are going to be way different.

I have a business which employs staff. My work permit doesn't cover this business but i still do well out of it. No problems here. Nobody knows i'm the owner...

[AngelsLariat]

If, as you say "I'm not interested in the ROI. Most investors are looking to recoup their investment in 5-10 years. I'm just looking for a perpetual ATM so I don't care if it breaks even in 15 or even 20!", then why not buy an annuity instead of buying a business?

There are no available interest rates that will take the amount of money I have and turn it into 30K B per month for the next 40 years. An annuity will pay until its term ends and then there is nothing left.

Therefore I want to buy a business - that will generate that amount of profit - a business will continue to do so forever and still have a resale/inheritance value.

So then ROI is important to you.

If you don't have enough savings to generate US$1K per month in passive income, then maybe you would be better off to look for a job that pays $1K per month than to use whatever savings you have to buy a goose that will perpetually lay golden eggs.

[FiftyTwo]

My idea revolves around food that I love and is really not found in CM except for 2 places and they don't focus on it, and the cost of ingredients are cheap. Mix that with the fact that I know how to cater it to Thai tastes (and have with success) and I know it would sell, I also know I would run into problems quickly.

Pancakes and icecream are my idea. In a sidewalk soda shop environment.

Maybe Cornish cream teas as well.

Edited February 3, 2014 by FiftyTwo

[puppy009loko]

Forget all what other suggested and go for An Internet game cafe.i am a farang who also have opened an Internet game somewhere in Thailand and trust me you will not regret it. You just have to find a very good location (beware a bad location will ruin your shop) and you have to make something special in it and the idea is let the people or the kids see that it's run by a farang specialy of you are young the customers will like you and will come stay all day playing.go for 15 or 20 comp find a cheap shop for rent and make your self notice in where u live in so that many will move the story between others mean they will talk to others and speak about farang owning a game shop.like I said make it special with the decoration cheap and nice one full of colors and game posters all around the wall kids will love it and your shop will run much greater then you thought.at least that's what happened with me. If you need any help here's my name and phone number Shady 0851200118

[Oscar2]

Forget all what other suggested and go for An Internet game cafe.i am a farang who also have opened an Internet game somewhere in Thailand and trust me you will not regret it. You just have to find a very good location (beware a bad location will ruin your shop) and you have to make something special in it and the idea is let the people or the kids see that it's run by a farang specialy of you are young the customers will like you and will come stay all day playing.go for 15 or 20 comp find a cheap shop for rent and make your self notice in where u live in so that many will move the story between others mean they will talk to others and speak about farang owning a game shop.like I said make it special with the decoration cheap and nice one full of colors and game posters all around the wall kids will love it and your shop will run much greater then you thought.at least that's what happened with me. If you need any help here's my name and phone number Shady 0851200118

right....call a guy named Shady.....

[Oscar2]

this whole thing is an exercise in futility. you are only talking 30K Bath per month. for a Canadian it's only CAD $900.cca. just buy stocks and corporate bonds, government bonds, T bills, Real Estate Investment Trusts, etc. and collect what --11,000 dollars a year and buy your 360,000 Baht. even the most conservative of investments will make you that.