Suthep playing with Cambodian fire

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Suthep playing with Cambodian fire
The Nation

Rash and unjustified claims that foreigners are behind attacks on protesters could damage relations with our neighbour

BANGKOK: -- It is too risky and dangerous for the anti-government protesters in Bangkok to politicise foreign relations, notably those with neighbouring Cambodia.

Talking gibberish on protest stages might play well to the local audience, but these speeches reach much further thanks to international media coverage.

Protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban, who supposedly knows Cambodia well, has claimed that the killing of Suthin Tharatin as part of a campaign to disrupt advance voting in Bang Na was carried out by a Cambodian special-operations unit.

Suthep failed to offer any actual evidence, instead launching rash allegations against a neighbouring country to conceal the protesters' political mistake in turning against democracy.

Suthep is not the first person to point the finger at Cambodia in a bid to conceal the protest's missteps. Navy Special Warfare Commander Winai Klom-in had previously claimed that Cambodians had been smuggled into Thailand to target the protesters. As a senior officer in the military, Winai has no business either interfering in the protests or blackening Cambodia's name. Unfortunately his men had earlier been discovered mingling with the protesters, their mission unclear. The subsequent attempt to divert attention to Cambodia backfired on the protest.

Cambodian authorities have not allowed these unfair allegations to damage their good relations with Thailand. Cambodia's Foreign Ministry immediately slammed the statements as foolish propaganda employed by Thai nationalists for selfish political purposes.

A senior and seasoned politician like Suthep, who was a Cabinet minister from 2008 to 2011, should know well that relations with Phnom Penh have been seriously damaged by internal political conflict in Bangkok.

The Democrat Party and the yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy sought political gain by whipping up public sentiment against Cambodia during protests against the government of Samak Sundaravej in 2008. Back then, senior members of the Democrat Party entertained protesters with slanders against Cambodia, just as Suthep is doing now.

The nationalist gibberish came back to haunt the Democrat-led government when it had to negotiate with Phnom Penh over the Preah Vihear Temple territory dispute. The Phnom Penh leadership never had good relations with that Democrat-led government. That fact no doubt contributed to the two countries' failure to settle their territorial conflict and Cambodia's decision to take the case to the world court.

The International Court of Justice ruled on Preah Vihear in November, but the issue is still far from over. The two countries must undertake many tasks to comply with the judgement. But the caretaker government under Yingluck Shinawatra has been stripped of its mandate to solve the problem due to the domestic political conflict. And, with the result of Thailand's election uncertain, Yingluck might have lost her chance to handle the Preah Vihear case altogether. Instead, we could see Suthep or his former Democrat Party colleagues installed in power and thereby in position to talk with Cambodia about the issue.

History might yet repeat itself. Suthep and the protest leaders must not burn their bridges with Cambodia. They might need them someday.

-- The Nation 2014-02-04

[Emptyset]

Yes, there's little to substantiate Suthep's allegations. It makes no sense to use Cambodians. There are plenty of angry Thais who are ready to attack the PDRC, in any case. However, going back to Tharit's suggestion of foreign involvement in the PDRC rallies. Apparently one protest leader, Issara Somchai, has hired some men who claim to be former French Foreign Legion as part of his security detail. Here is one of them:



There's no evidence these men have been involved in violence. I only point it out because I saw the suggestion that the FFL were involved - dismissed it as ridiculous - but then someone on Twitter claimed to have spoken to these men who told him that they'd been hired as 'security advisors' for Issara. I guess it's not that strange after all, I've heard that some other prominent Thais also have foreigners advising on security, ex special forces and the like. Presumably these guys are just there to give advice, not actually use weapons...

[Thai at Heart]

Of course what would happen if the media refused to be used like a fog horn and actually demanded that these claims be substantiatedm

[smutcakes]

Yes, there's little to substantiate Suthep's allegations. It makes no sense to use Cambodians. There are plenty of angry Thais who are ready to attack the PDRC, in any case. However, going back to Tharit's suggestion of foreign involvement in the PDRC rallies. Apparently one protest leader, Issara Somchai, has hired some men who claim to be former French Foreign Legion as part of his security detail. Here is one of them:

There's no evidence these men have been involved in violence. I only point it out because I saw the suggestion that the FFL were involved - dismissed it as ridiculous - but then someone on Twitter claimed to have spoken to these men who told him that they'd been hired as 'security advisors' for Issara. I guess it's not that strange after all, I've heard that some other prominent Thais also have foreigners advising on security, ex special forces and the like. Presumably these guys are just there to give advice, not actually use weapons...

I very much doubt any reputable special forces operator would allow themselves to be in a situation where that type of photo can be taken. That farang looks like some walter mitty gym/steroid junkie by the size of him, with the objective of looking cool rather than doing anything substantive.

[angsta]

Of course what would happen if the media refused to be used like a fog horn and actually demanded that these claims be substantiatedm

You mean 'journalists' at The Nation actually acting like real journalists and asking questions? How would The Bangkok Post manage that? Crazy talk. This is why they can't handle the western media reports as they come close to being independent. The Thai elite find that all very confusing.

[samuidave]

Regardless, the suggestion is hardly out of the very real realm of possibilities, knowing the cozy relationship between Thaksin, cambodia's advisor, and Hun Sen.

"Hun Sen is widely viewed as a dictator that has assumed authoritarian power in Cambodia using violence and intimidation and corruption to maintain his power base.[3][4][5]Hun Sen has accumulated highly centralized power in Cambodia, including a 'praetorian guard that appears to rival the capabilities of the countrys regular military units.'[6]" wiki

[englishoak]

It is stupid to say the least as a former deputy head PM of a nation to make wild accusations about your neighbours involvement in your own country's politics and unrest without any hard and provable evidence.

it does nothing to help and just stirs up more xenophobia, very stupid things have been said on stage and in the press by so called high ranking military with absolutely no proof or evidence... purely propagandist rhetoric unless someone comes up with some proof.

Edited February 4, 2014 by englishoak

[Thai at Heart]

Question.

Has the Cambodian army been the first to cast any stone during this 5 or 6 years of nonsense.

Seems Suthep is playing with thai fire.

[tx22cb]

Wasn't the Cambodian allegation/red herring started by the Commander of the Naval SEALS, after some armed SEALS were caught with weapons in BKK in the middle of the night?

If there really are Cambodian mercenaries in BKK, they've done a very good job at not being seen - a better job than the various Men in Black.

[Yunla]

Destabilising the home not enough, he moves on to upset the neighbours. Young people should be busy taking notes now, on the importance of tact and diplomacy, using Suthep as a life-class working model on how the absence of these things can prove disastrous. That can be Suthep's legacy, teaching the next generation the importance of maintaining decorum and restraint in the public sphere.

[Thai at Heart]

Destabilising the home not enough, he moves on to upset the neighbours. Young people should be busy taking notes now, on the importance of tact and diplomacy, using Suthep as a life-class working model on how the absence of these things can prove disastrous. That can be Suthep's legacy, teaching the next generation the importance of maintaining decorum and restraint in the public sphere.

He represents literally everything of the few things I cannot stand about Thailand.

[JRSoul]

Question.

Has the Cambodian army been the first to cast any stone during this 5 or 6 years of nonsense.

Seems Suthep is playing with thai fire.

Are you forgetting the border clashes before the 2011 election? Admittedly, they weren't stones being lobbed into eastern Thailand, who the instigators were is subject to dispute, but the timing was very convenient and beneficial to an "eternal friend".

[Ricardo]

Question.

Has the Cambodian army been the first to cast any stone during this 5 or 6 years of nonsense.

Seems Suthep is playing with thai fire.

Are you forgetting the border clashes before the 2011 election? Admittedly, they weren't stones being lobbed into eastern Thailand, who the instigators were is subject to dispute, but the timing was very convenient and beneficial to an "eternal friend".

Agree that Suthep should not be playing the nationalist-card, but Hun Sen must also be wondering when he'll get movement on the offshore-oil, wouldn't be surprised if he were disappointed with progress on that since 2011. Certainly he must have an interest, in which side is in-power, in his neighbouring country.

[Thai at Heart]

Question.

Has the Cambodian army been the first to cast any stone during this 5 or 6 years of nonsense.

Seems Suthep is playing with thai fire.

Are you forgetting the border clashes before the 2011 election? Admittedly, they weren't stones being lobbed into eastern Thailand, who the instigators were is subject to dispute, but the timing was very convenient and beneficial to an "eternal friend".

If I remember, it wasn't proven who started it, but I think safe to say, Thailand has more to gain than Cambodia.

Please send these nationalists down there to solve the problems. I'm sure the Cambodians would quake in their boots.

Scoundrels the lot of them.

[englishoak]

Question.

Has the Cambodian army been the first to cast any stone during this 5 or 6 years of nonsense.

Seems Suthep is playing with thai fire.

Are you forgetting the border clashes before the 2011 election? Admittedly, they weren't stones being lobbed into eastern Thailand, who the instigators were is subject to dispute, but the timing was very convenient and beneficial to an "eternal friend".

The debacle over the temple and surrounding area has been settled by the UN as asked by Thailand. They ruled in favour of Cambodia and to my mind rightly so. Just another example of Thailand's stoic belief of it being right when in fact the rest of the world having looked at the whole episode ruled it was in fact wrong.

[oldthaihand99]

"Suthep playing with Cambodian fire"

Bad Suthep.

Would the Cambodian army back the Northern reds in a civil war vs Bangkok?

[rijb]

'Talking gibberish on protest stages...'

'nationalist gibberish...'

It's not easy to make sense with a whistle in your mouth...

[Emptyset]

Yes, there's little to substantiate Suthep's allegations. It makes no sense to use Cambodians. There are plenty of angry Thais who are ready to attack the PDRC, in any case. However, going back to Tharit's suggestion of foreign involvement in the PDRC rallies. Apparently one protest leader, Issara Somchai, has hired some men who claim to be former French Foreign Legion as part of his security detail. Here is one of them:

There's no evidence these men have been involved in violence. I only point it out because I saw the suggestion that the FFL were involved - dismissed it as ridiculous - but then someone on Twitter claimed to have spoken to these men who told him that they'd been hired as 'security advisors' for Issara. I guess it's not that strange after all, I've heard that some other prominent Thais also have foreigners advising on security, ex special forces and the like. Presumably these guys are just there to give advice, not actually use weapons...

I very much doubt any reputable special forces operator would allow themselves to be in a situation where that type of photo can be taken. That farang looks like some walter mitty gym/steroid junkie by the size of him, with the objective of looking cool rather than doing anything substantive.

Yeah, of course, a lot of people claim to be ex special forces. Maybe just some wannabes in this case.

[noitom]

Of course what would happen if the media refused to be used like a fog horn and actually demanded that these claims be substantiatedm

You expect the Thai press to play hardball?

[Emptyset]

Question.

Has the Cambodian army been the first to cast any stone during this 5 or 6 years of nonsense.

Seems Suthep is playing with thai fire.

Are you forgetting the border clashes before the 2011 election? Admittedly, they weren't stones being lobbed into eastern Thailand, who the instigators were is subject to dispute, but the timing was very convenient and beneficial to an "eternal friend".

If I remember, it wasn't proven who started it, but I think safe to say, Thailand has more to gain than Cambodia.

Please send these nationalists down there to solve the problems. I'm sure the Cambodians would quake in their boots.

Scoundrels the lot of them.

Chris Baker pointed the finger at nationalists for the clash. Suggested it was instigated by those who didn't want the election to go ahead. I don't know. Not sure how sparking up nationalist frenzy would've helped Thaksin though.

[Spalpeen]

"Gibberish". The Nation finally loses patience with Suthep.

[DirtFarmer]

"And, with the result of Thailand's election uncertain, Yingluck might have lost her chance to handle the Preah Vihear case altogether. Instead, we could see Suthep or his former Democrat Party colleagues installed in power and thereby in position to talk with Cambodia about the issue.

History might yet repeat itself. Suthep and the protest leaders must not burn their bridges with Cambodia. They might need them someday."

-- The Nation 2014-02-04

HMMMMMM>.......

Hark, I hear a cannon roar...

[LomSak27]

Well the Yellows have a past history of this right?

Creating the Preah Vihar Temple incident to descredit PT - where none existed. Cambodian Wizards in some of their mystical conspiracy theories (Robe ceremony, Erwana shrine smashing) , Navy claiming armed Cambodian infiltrators etc

Why wouldn't Suthep go back to the well one more time. It's not like he has anything to lose, or anybody besides his faithful actually believe these tall tales.

[MaxLee]

But, but, but,... Mr. Suthep, Cambodia is Thaksin's territory due to his mutual relationship with Hun Sen,... if you know what I mean,.,,...

[JoeLing]

Next Headlines wlil be:
"We are very sorry but we never mentioned Cambodia, that was a double send by the opposition"

[trainman34014]

Well; if you can't start a war in your own country then why not stir enough shit with a neighbour to start one with them ? Suthep is now a desperate Man but lets face it; it wasn't him who started the crap about Cambodians being involved it was the Thai Navy.

[FireMedic]

Well, all I know is in Cambodia, tour guides are well dressed, polite, and speak just about every language. Tuk Tuks are 2$ where ever you go. The taxi's are clean and metered. I'd just assume have them running the joint......

[LomSak27]

lets face it; it wasn't him who started the crap about Cambodians being involved it was the Thai Navy.

Uh, there like on the same side ....

see what Happens when they do something - like that actress did so many years ago - wether true or not and then the cambos get riled up and go torch 35 million in Thai business and infrastructure.

No war, cause that would actually mean fighting and given the Thai armies track record - Laos 87/88 - not something they are good at

[DocN]

"Talking gibberish on protest stages might play well to the local audience..."

This pretty much sums it all up!

[Time Traveller]

Even with evidence, it's unusual that Suthep would name the actual country of origin for these gunmen. Maybe he's not planing for any future in Thai politics. Quite possibly the powerful person behind the scenes of the Anti-government demostrators, will soon see Suthep as a liability and he may soon "disappear" for other expendable political aspirants from the Demorat party.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Time Traveller