Auditor-general tells caretaker PM Yingluck to scrap rice pledging scheme

[Gone]

I feel so bad for the farmers. All around the world in every country it is asways the farmers who lose yet they are the ones we depend on the MOST.

I hope they get paid very soon !

[gemini81]

...scrap the proxy government altogether as well, will improve the country tenfold.

[gabruce]

And so with this report, we can assume that the house of cards is starting to collapse.

The PTP is now almost certainly 'yesterday's news'. They can't possibly hoodwink their strong voter base that the scheme is to continue.

This election will probably be voided, and before a new election can be convened the next harvest will be launched and the farmers will want to know if this harvest is under the scheme.

The government can not hang on that long before making a decision. They can't pledge for next season when they have not even paid for this season and when the time comes they have to tell their voter power base that 'there will be no subsidies next year and all our stockpiled rice will be your number one competitor next season and the season after that and the season after that.... Sorry but I think you won't be making any profit for the next 3 years.'

'Sorry about this. It is the protester's fault, not ours..... honest.'

Has anyone considered that maybe it's the aim of the Pheu Thai to push rice farmers into growing something else? Don't know why or what they should grow as an alternative, however that's likely to be the effect of their program. It could be a subtle plan that I just don't understand.

[Bluespunk]

@Old Man River

I agree many companies/countries try to corner/control the market price through a dominant position. The problem that apparently no one behind this scheme saw was that there are a lot of countries producing rice. They must have been rolling around on the floor in laughter and disbelief when they saw what PT were attempting to do. It could never work without a cartel arrangement such as OPEC. They carried on selling at the market rate and have overtaken Thailand as exporters of rice.

The policy never stood a chance of success. It still amazes me that PT thought it could.

As for the court case, well yeah, let the courts decide the fate of those 15.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Bluespunk

[rickirs]

Whoa! 82% of the rice budget goes to high-income and middle-income earning farmers and only 18% goes to low-income farmers? And Suthep is complaining about corruption in the rice scheme when his voter base is supposedly from the middle and high-income levels?

[icommunity]

The problem is the entire scheme itself is a stitch up; it was set up based on the concept of being fairly self funding with a 'float' needed from memory 500b baht. However, the reality vs. the estimates of how much it cost massively underestimated the true cost, in an ENRON/WorldCom style way of recognising sales that didn't exist.

Rest assured the G2G sales and their confidentiality are there for one thing only - to cover the truth of how much every sale is wasting tax payer month. If anyone was stupid enough to buy at 17,000b per ton the govt would be sure to be crowing how they achieved the sale. The refusal of the government to investigate and check or audit and their 'shoot the messenger' approach to handling any criticism coupled with outright lying about sales which don't exist, are why the entire scheme is bankrupt. Which even until today is denied by the government, who still claim to the farmers that payouts are not being made due to the protesters.

There is no easy legal solution until we have a proper government to pass a new act to create a source of funding which can support the scheme, and insiders have clearly stated that no one has any idea exactly how much this scheme will lose. No civil servant is willing to support the scheme when its likely to collapse; even the Chinese are making it clear they want no part of this scheme (perhaps because the reality of what they paid and how much was delivered will show up corruption on both sides).

The easy solution is that the government should only pay for domestic rice consumption, and for all exported rice the Shinawatras should offer to purchase the entire rice stockpile at 100% of the pledged price of approx. 12,000b (which was never achieving 15,000b, as there has been corruption at every step of this idiotic policy) since THEY are the ones who think it's a good idea - it has nothing to do with food security, they said it would increase the average price per ton to be self sustaining, so let them take the risk of this occurring (or not) by running their own rice cartel with THEIR money, not ours - we only need rice for domestic purposes, let the SHINAWATRAS enjoy the upside of buying at 50% above market rates if THEY think its a good plan for export.

The reality is the refusal to disclose prices and to admit any issues in the scheme is tantamount to condoning the corruption in the scheme - we know why because the government senior MPs and backers are the most likely to have their hands in the till.

You are entitled to your opinion. My focus is on solution on the challenges of the rice pledging scheme - not the problems. I look beyond the rice pledging scheme and see the integration of every sectors of the economy. It is also a step towards combating corruption when people's life improved.

Using Shinawatra family as a solution risk them being accused of conflict of interest and abused of power with the kind of politics we are currently in. It is a scheme that the people wanted and we should work to overcome problems of the scheme and punish the wrong doers and saboteurs.

This rice scheme is not a handout, subsidy. It is an investment on the total economy and food security (National security) of Thailand.

Obstructionist politics, distortion and smear campaigns of politicians are creating added challenges for the implementing government.

If you are afraid of solving this rice scheme problems, don't expect people to have faith in you and trust you with bigger issue of the country.

I don't expect Thaksin haters and fearers to be constructive.

Under the democratic system of Government, the people can always vote the government out and replace it with other alternative.

[steveromagnino]

Has anyone considered that maybe it's the aim of the Pheu Thai to push rice farmers into growing something else? Don't know why or what they should grow as an alternative, however that's likely to be the effect of their program. It could be a subtle plan that I just don't understand.

Most definitely not.

They don't do crop pledging for any other crop; the rice farmers have invested in equipment and gone into debt on the basis of the promise made to them - when PT tried to renege of the rice pledging scheme earlier this year (as it was obvious it was going bust) the farmers protested so PT caved.

There is no way this ends well for the farmers; they have worn massive cost inflation in their input costs (coincidentally a lot of fertiliser and seed companies are linked to both sides of the house) and so their income has not actually really increased; they placed their faith in a smoke and mirrors scheme, and sadly, it is they who will deal with the consequences, not the MPs or PM who ran this scheme (all of whom are safely enjoying massive wealth).

At no point did the red shirt leaders ever choose to speak out about this - better to pretend it was all going to be ok...right up until it isn't. Now they are blaming the protesters, when it is the direct fault of the PM and her MPs who lied and concealed the truth repeatedly to avoid facing up to the scheme being a total failure.

[dukebowling]

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/pheu-thai-spokesman-gets-one-year-jailterm-without-suspension/

The guy should be in jail for many reasons

I agree…the former president of the Constitutional Court Wasant Soipisut and current members are more corrupt than any politician and should be locked up. It is clear in this article the PTP spokesperson is being railroaded through the court system.

Reason for his conviction: "they were not repentant and continued to attack Mr Wasant in a way which might cause the public to lose faith in the court."

How weak.

Bullshit, that PT twit is a nasty piece of work and he should have been locked up long ago for a litany of stupidity.

Stupidity is not a crime and there aren't any substantiated charges. Weak.

[dukebowling]

The downfall of the rice program was when India opened up it's export ban at the same time Thailand took it's rice off the market to create a shortage and increase the price per ton. To say the plan backfired is an understatement. Huge blunder…although not illegal.

Edited February 4, 2014 by dukebowling

[icommunity]

Target the wrong doers and the saboteurs rather than the rice pledging scheme. Who are those unscrupulous people, the auditor general office should reveal them to the government and if the government does not take action against them than it is guilty of dereliction of duties.

Somebody tried doing that and quickly retracted their statements about corruption when someone had a word with them!

As of now, 15 have been indicted by the NACC for this scheme. Best to wait for the court to decide.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I'm all for the courts deciding and as long as there is no undue pressure put on them it should expose the inept, almost criminally so, economic thinking that has been the key feature of this ridiculous scheme from the start. .

If it is to expose any alleged corruption it is essential that, unlike the case of the official who exposed possible corruption last year, no witnesses are forced into silence.

I don't know about the corruption surrounding the scheme, I'll be surprised if it doesn't exist, but my problem with the scheme is and always has been the sheer folly and stupidity that allowed it to ever begin.

I don't know if that is a crime yet.

I agreed. The court should rule based on evidence instead of political argument, personal opinion and of course political entanglement.

I don't know the exact corruption and irregularities. However, corruption and irregularities always exist in any big and small project/scheme. Those who make accusation should produce evidence to punish the wrong doers and saboteurs.

I don't exactly know what are you referring to on:

"If it is to expose any alleged corruption it is essential that, unlike the case of the official who exposed possible corruption last year, no witnesses are forced into silence."

[Chupup]

The Dems systems is better.

No false registration of farmers, no led to exaggerated number of registered farmers.

Just hand over payment without seeing the physical rice.

Of course you also have the proof ???

[steveromagnino]

You are entitled to your opinion. My focus is on solution on the challenges of the rice pledging scheme - not the problems.

This rice scheme is not a handout, subsidy. It is an investment on the total economy and food security (National security) of Thailand.

It is exactly a hand out. It is a handout solely for some rice farmers, no one else, who are paid to grow something that is then stored and not sold until it is worthless. There are huge side benefits to other related parties. It is not an investment, any more than me dropping money on prostitutes and booze is 'an investment'. If you do not understand how economics of this scheme works, I suggest learning about the 'broken window' parable in economics - superficially a thief breaking a window generates economic growth - work for the glazier, work for the glass factory etc. but in reality, money spent on fixing the window has an opportunity cost, denying some other activity for which the money should have been used but wasn't (e.g. the shop investing in more inventory/staff,etc).

In no way does rice pledging provide any form of food security (you have mentioned this several times) - food security is provided through control of inventory, a budget set aside for the free market to purchase and operate efficiently, and ongoing improvements in yields, restrictions on exports. This scheme does none of those things, it removes diversity in crops by area, and can only be described as a drain on the national economy. In fact, the ongoing rumours of rotting rice in our food supply and complaints on rice quality indicate that if anything, this scheme is undoing food security.

Furthermore, the govt is the least able to market and sell rice - govts are usually the most useless at any given task; they are destroying the rice industry because they are setting themselves up as the sole buyer of all rice, only possible because they have us (the taxpayers) being forced to pay for it.

A better scheme would be to have a crop subsidy with a price floor for multiple crops, coupled with a direct payment to specific families for reducing their input costs slightly; protecting farmers in all industries from the impact of the open market, giving them security and providing the most needy with help. We had this scheme before. It is relatively cheap, it is far easier to administrate, and less open to corruption. It also does not give rice farmers a 'free lunch' nor does it mean they are stuck as they are now, with no money and no rice having paid all the costs.

The reality, is long term the ongoing shift of farmers out of the fields and continuing to employ more Thais in factories/services rather than subsistence farming is also how Thailand will escape the middle income trap.

Fiscal responsibility dictates that rule by the majority should be restricted to doing things in the public interest i.e. just because I was elected by popular mandate as PM I should not be allowed to hold bunga bunga parties and do whatever I want "just because I was voted in with a majority" - there must be oversight either before, during and/or after. The same applies for policy - if the policy is idiotic, it should be not an option for a govt to undertake without consequence.

Edited February 4, 2014 by steveromagnino

[tingtongteesood]

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/pheu-thai-spokesman-gets-one-year-jailterm-without-suspension/

The guy should be in jail for many reasons

I agree…the former president of the Constitutional Court Wasant Soipisut and current members are more corrupt than any politician and should be locked up. It is clear in this article the PTP spokesperson is being railroaded through the court system.

Reason for his conviction: "they were not repentant and continued to attack Mr Wasant in a way which might cause the public to lose faith in the court."

How weak.

Bullshit, that PT twit is a nasty piece of work and he should have been locked up long ago for a litany of stupidity.

Stupidity is not a crime and there aren't any substantiated charges. Weak.

He has been sentenced by the courts to a 1 year prison term, what more do you need ?!

[dukebowling]

I agree…the former president of the Constitutional Court Wasant Soipisut and current members are more corrupt than any politician and should be locked up. It is clear in this article the PTP spokesperson is being railroaded through the court system.

Reason for his conviction: "they were not repentant and continued to attack Mr Wasant in a way which might cause the public to lose faith in the court."

How weak.

Bullshit, that PT twit is a nasty piece of work and he should have been locked up long ago for a litany of stupidity.

Stupidity is not a crime and there aren't any substantiated charges. Weak.

He has been sentenced by the courts to a 1 year prison term, what more do you need ?!

The courts are corrupt. They sentence without any real evidence. What is his crime? Causing someone to lose face? This should not be a crime especially when the accusations are true.

[icommunity]

I doubt that is a crime. Over the years we have seen individuals try to corner markets. It is the first time I have been aware of a government try to drive up prices so the government could either sell at a profit or break even. Maybe it has happened before, but from what is in print, with other countries picking up the slack and global traders making quick online trades, it had little chance of success. Hence, it is possible malfeasance charges could be made due to the losses allegedly being incurred (the World Bank has made estimates).

Separately, there are the charges where some tried to gain individually. These appear to be the 15.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Malfeasance may be a possibility. However, for argument sack, I don't think it is easily apply unless the evidence is that of abused of power and unauthorized online trading.

However, rice pledging scheme is not a money making scheme. It is an 'investment' like infrastructure investment. Eg factory investing in machinery, farmers investing in modern method of farming etc. Investing in the well being of the farmers help food security (that is when they stay farming), allowing the related industries to grow and develop and that growth also help shipping, warehousing, banking and insurance services. In short, I am looking at the economy as a whole. The other alternative is for us to become a rice importing nation which some countries are beginning to regret.

[JRSoul]

The downfall of the rice program was when India opened up it's export ban at the same time Thailand took it's rice off the market to create a shortage and increase the price per ton. To say the plan backfired is an understatement. Huge blunder…although not illegal.

That lesson was learned quite rapidly. So what do you call continuing with a scheme when it is obvious you have made a huge blunder?

[indyuk]

The Dems systems is better.

No false registration of farmers, no led to exaggerated number of registered farmers.

Just hand over payment without seeing the physical rice.

No the Democrat system was not better. That is the hole point. The Democrat's poured in money to no effect because the farmers that were poor remained poor. The Democrats also had difficulty with funding their half heated schemes often not meeting obligations to the farmers within a reasonable time. The Democrat scheme also encouraged farmers to expect continuing handouts from a nanny state whilst their was no incentive for the farmers to address Thailand's declining productivity. It is also worth noting the the endemic corruption in Thailand rice industry ran amok with little hope of identifying points of corruption because the corruption was distributed along a path of milling, warehousing and shipping all with their own cut of the proceeds of the processing and sale of the rices crops. In fact the system favored corrupt income opportunities for the elite families and institutions. Such matters are the fruit for the wealthy that has probably prevailed for longer than Thailand has been a democracy. Hence the Suthep movement that may have promised his elite friends that he will reset the profitability of their enterprises.their.

Personally I am distressed that the Rice Pledging scheme is in difficulties because if it succeeds it will rip the heart out of corruption in Thailand. As similar systems were introduced to corruption unfriendly production and marketing systems of all Thailand's agri projects and perhaps wipe out poverty and corruption in the longer term. I imagine that the architect of the rice pledging scheme has similar hopes.

[rubl]

Target the wrong doers and the saboteurs rather than the rice pledging scheme. Who are those unscrupulous people, the auditor general office should reveal them to the government and if the government does not take action against them than it is guilty of dereliction of duties.

Don't worry, the government and Ms. Yingluck are already under investigation by the NACC.

Maybe you forgot that in the last censure debate last year our dear PM confirmed that her governments brilliant scheme showed hardly any corruption and unlike the opposition alleged.

[rubl]

The Dems systems is better.

No false registration of farmers, no led to exaggerated number of registered farmers.

Just hand over payment without seeing the physical rice.

No the Democrat system was not better. That is the hole point. The Democrat's poured in money to no effect because the farmers that were poor remained poor. The Democrats also had difficulty with funding their half heated schemes often not meeting obligations to the farmers within a reasonable time. The Democrat scheme also encouraged farmers to expect continuing handouts from a nanny state whilst their was no incentive for the farmers to address Thailand's declining productivity. It is also worth noting the the endemic corruption in Thailand rice industry ran amok with little hope of identifying points of corruption because the corruption was distributed along a path of milling, warehousing and shipping all with their own cut of the proceeds of the processing and sale of the rices crops. In fact the system favored corrupt income opportunities for the elite families and institutions. Such matters are the fruit for the wealthy that has probably prevailed for longer than Thailand has been a democracy. Hence the Suthep movement that may have promised his elite friends that he will reset the profitability of their enterprises.their.

Personally I am distressed that the Rice Pledging scheme is in difficulties because if it succeeds it will rip the heart out of corruption in Thailand. As similar systems were introduced to corruption unfriendly production and marketing systems of all Thailand's agri projects and perhaps wipe out poverty and corruption in the longer term. I imagine that the architect of the rice pledging scheme has similar hopes.

The Democrats scheme was one of minimum price guarantee payed directly to farmers. Most complained it was not enough.

So who did some pouring here?

BTW the architect of the rice price pledging scheme is a well-know golf caddy who has gone on record 1-1/2 year ago that the scheme was wonderful, should be continued and would make a profit for Thailand. Of course no mention of helping poor farmers.

[Lite Beer]

Auditor General issues stern warnings to caretaker PM, finance minister
By Digital Content

BANGKOK, Feb 4 – Thailand’s Office of the Auditor General (OAG) is proposing that the government suspend the rice pledging scheme which has been plagued with corruption and plunged the country into heavy financial loss.

It suggested the government find other measures to help farmers, including support of rice cultivation materials and assistance directly to low-income farmers.

‎Ms Prapee Ankinandana, OAG deputy governor, sent a letter to caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, dated Jan 30, citing risks and weaknesses in every stage of the rice scheme, starting from farmer registration to rice released from the state stockpiles.

Officials of the Public Warehouse Organisation (PWO) and the Marketing Organisation for Farmers (MOF) could not assist farmers during the pledging procedure, nor did they have knowledge or experience on stocking rice, resulting in worsening quality, she said.

Ms Prapee said there was no evidence to substantiate claims of government-to-government agreements on rice purchases by China.

The statement said figures of rice in PWO and MOF stocks were incomplete and frequently changed, including an increase of rice in stock to 2.98 million tonnes on June 27, 2013 which could not be confirmed.

The government reported a Bt332 billion loss from rice purchase in the 2011/2012 crop, as of May 31 – a figure much higher than that of the closing account of the sub-committee which reported a Bt220 billion loss as of Dec 31, 2013.

Ms Prapee said the government had to bear heavy financial burden from 13 million tonnes of rice in its stockpile, as of May 31, from the 2011 to 2013 crops.

The OAG also submitted a separate letter to caretaker Deputy Prime Minister/Finance Minister Kittiratt Na-Ranong, expressing the OAG’s concern over the Finance Ministry’s attempt to borrow from different state sources and agencies for overdue payments to farmers from the rice pledging scheme.

It also referred to the Cabinet’s decision on Jan 27 to adjust public debt ceiling to Bt1.321 trillion to Bt1.316 trillion, after the caretaker government reduced the loan ceiling for the rice scheme from Bt270 billion to Bt130 billion to enable the Finance Ministry to act as a guarantor for loans to pay farmers.

The OAG warned the Finance Ministry that it had to abide by the law and avoid violating the Constitution, or the person who gave approval must be held responsible. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2014-02-04

[steveromagnino]

The Dems systems is better.

No false registration of farmers, no led to exaggerated number of registered farmers.

Just hand over payment without seeing the physical rice.

No the Democrat system was not better. That is the hole point. The Democrat's poured in money to no effect because the farmers that were poor remained poor.

Personally I am distressed that the Rice Pledging scheme is in difficulties because if it succeeds it will rip the heart out of corruption in Thailand.

So to summarise, you believe that whereas price floor guarantee failed because it did not turn poor farmers into anything other than poor farmers, that rice pledging has the ability to do what? To turn poor farmers into rich farmers? After the first year, after 2 years, this has been the case or not?

I would have thought any scheme of this nature - poor farmers will still be poor farmers - it's just a matter of degrees - whether they are in poverty (or not). The best way to turn poor farmers into richer farmers is pretty simple - reduce the number of farmers, and shift a bunch of them to do something else more constructive.

No amount of change and reduction of corruption will ever make a 20 rai land owning farmer anything other than a 'poor farmer'. it's like expecting to get rich, earning 10b an hour. It cannot happen. Increase pay to 15b an hour, you will still never become a billionaire. Ever.

You claim that rice pledging has the ability to rip the heart of corruption out of Thailand and solve poverty. Please provide evidence how exactly this would occur 'in an ideal world' because no one, least of all the government, has ever provided any evidence that the scheme is anything other than a massive money pit, where no one knows the true cost, sales are falsified, rice is smuggled in, farmers aren't paid what they were promised, the main beneficiaries are not the farmers and the farmers remain much the same now as they were before the scheme began even when they were still getting paid with costs escalating at the same right as the pledge prices.

I look forward to learning something new, as people like the IMF, World Bank and most academics in Thailand such as NESDB, TDRI etc are all stating the opposite to what you are.

[icommunity]

It is exactly a hand out. It is a handout solely for some rice farmers, no one else, who are paid to grow something that is then stored and not sold until it is worthless. There are huge side benefits to other related parties. It is not an investment, any more than me dropping money on prostitutes and booze is 'an investment'. If you do not understand how economics of this scheme works, I suggest learning about the 'broken window' parable in economics - superficially a thief breaking a window generates economic growth - work for the glazier, work for the glass factory etc. but in reality, money spent on fixing the window has an opportunity cost, denying some other activity for which the money should have been used but wasn't (e.g. the shop investing in more inventory/staff,etc).

In no way does rice pledging provide any form of food security (you have mentioned this several times) - food security is provided through control of inventory, a budget set aside for the free market to purchase and operate efficiently, and ongoing improvements in yields, restrictions on exports. This scheme does none of those things, it removes diversity in crops by area, and can only be described as a drain on the national economy. In fact, the ongoing rumours of rotting rice in our food supply and complaints on rice quality indicate that if anything, this scheme is undoing food security.

Furthermore, the govt is the least able to market and sell rice - govts are usually the most useless at any given task; they are destroying the rice industry because they are setting themselves up as the sole buyer of all rice, only possible because they have us (the taxpayers) being forced to pay for it.

A better scheme would be to have a crop subsidy with a price floor for multiple crops, coupled with a direct payment to specific families for reducing their input costs slightly; protecting farmers in all industries from the impact of the open market, giving them security and providing the most needy with help. We had this scheme before. It is relatively cheap, it is far easier to administrate, and less open to corruption. It also does not give rice farmers a 'free lunch' nor does it mean they are stuck as they are now, with no money and no rice having paid all the costs.

The reality, is long term the ongoing shift of farmers out of the fields and continuing to employ more Thais in factories/services rather than subsistence farming is also how Thailand will escape the middle income trap.

Fiscal responsibility dictates that rule by the majority should be restricted to doing things in the public interest i.e. just because I was elected by popular mandate as PM I should not be allowed to hold bunga bunga parties and do whatever I want "just because I was voted in with a majority" - there must be oversight either before, during and/or after. The same applies for policy - if the policy is idiotic, it should be not an option for a govt to undertake without consequence.

I am sure the government is listening and studying the overall farming industries and that include some of your suggestion here. Rice pledging is not a permanent scheme. The ability of a government to manage changes domestically and globally is the 'DNA' I am looking for when come to election. Reforming agriculture sector without land reform is not an option and this is politically suicidal at the moment. Thaksin wanted to do that and that is what he is getting - by all means get rid of him.

IMO, there is no proof that the government betrayed the faith and trust of the voters and decided to do whatever it like. It is more a perception from distortion, misinformation and smear campaigns.

I am getting a little political here. I don't see the oppositions coming out with any alternative or policies and willing to articulate them during an election.

[mightyatom]

It is exactly a hand out. It is a handout solely for some rice farmers, no one else, who are paid to grow something that is then stored and not sold until it is worthless. There are huge side benefits to other related parties. It is not an investment, any more than me dropping money on prostitutes and booze is 'an investment'. If you do not understand how economics of this scheme works, I suggest learning about the 'broken window' parable in economics - superficially a thief breaking a window generates economic growth - work for the glazier, work for the glass factory etc. but in reality, money spent on fixing the window has an opportunity cost, denying some other activity for which the money should have been used but wasn't (e.g. the shop investing in more inventory/staff,etc).

In no way does rice pledging provide any form of food security (you have mentioned this several times) - food security is provided through control of inventory, a budget set aside for the free market to purchase and operate efficiently, and ongoing improvements in yields, restrictions on exports. This scheme does none of those things, it removes diversity in crops by area, and can only be described as a drain on the national economy. In fact, the ongoing rumours of rotting rice in our food supply and complaints on rice quality indicate that if anything, this scheme is undoing food security.

Furthermore, the govt is the least able to market and sell rice - govts are usually the most useless at any given task; they are destroying the rice industry because they are setting themselves up as the sole buyer of all rice, only possible because they have us (the taxpayers) being forced to pay for it.

A better scheme would be to have a crop subsidy with a price floor for multiple crops, coupled with a direct payment to specific families for reducing their input costs slightly; protecting farmers in all industries from the impact of the open market, giving them security and providing the most needy with help. We had this scheme before. It is relatively cheap, it is far easier to administrate, and less open to corruption. It also does not give rice farmers a 'free lunch' nor does it mean they are stuck as they are now, with no money and no rice having paid all the costs.

The reality, is long term the ongoing shift of farmers out of the fields and continuing to employ more Thais in factories/services rather than subsistence farming is also how Thailand will escape the middle income trap.

Fiscal responsibility dictates that rule by the majority should be restricted to doing things in the public interest i.e. just because I was elected by popular mandate as PM I should not be allowed to hold bunga bunga parties and do whatever I want "just because I was voted in with a majority" - there must be oversight either before, during and/or after. The same applies for policy - if the policy is idiotic, it should be not an option for a govt to undertake without consequence.

I am sure the government is listening and studying the overall farming industries and that include some of your suggestion here. Rice pledging is not a permanent scheme. The ability of a government to manage changes domestically and globally is the 'DNA' I am looking for when come to election. Reforming agriculture sector without land reform is not an option and this is politically suicidal at the moment. Thaksin wanted to do that and that is what he is getting - by all means get rid of him.

IMO, there is no proof that the government betrayed the faith and trust of the voters and decided to do whatever it like. It is more a perception from distortion, misinformation and smear campaigns.

I am getting a little political here. I don't see the oppositions coming out with any alternative or policies and willing to articulate them during an election.

Why should the opposition use their collective intelligence to help a government who they hate and who hates them back?

Would you go to your sworn enemy and give him suggestions on the best way to sort out his problems? Of course you wouldn't, you would sit back and watch him fail and feel satisfied.... I know I would.

[steveromagnino]

IMO, there is no proof that the government betrayed the faith and trust of the voters and decided to do whatever it like. It is more a perception from distortion, misinformation and smear campaigns.

I am getting a little political here. I don't see the oppositions coming out with any alternative or policies and willing to articulate them during an election.

Example 1 - lying about the amnesty bill:

Nov 2011 -PM Affirms Thaksin Not Named for Amnesty nov 2011 (Tan network ref. Thaivisa)

The prime minister insists that her brother's name was not included in the government's amnesty decree that has been presented for royal endorsement.

Chalerm also insisted that the royal decree is not aimed to help former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

Oct 2013 - PM suddenly changes the bill at the last minute and rams it through using a parliamentary majority, deceiving both her supporters and her opponents (source BBC)

Thailand's lower house of parliament has passed a political amnesty bill that critics say could allow the return of former PM Thaksin Shinawatra.

The amnesty applies to offences committed during the political turmoil after Mr Thaksin was ousted in a coup.

"The proposed amnesty would allow officials and protest leaders who have blood on their hands to go unpunished," said Brad Adams, Asia director of Human Rights Watch, on 21 October.

Thaksin Shinawatra has lived in self-imposed overseas exile since being convicted of corruption in 2008, charges he says are politically motivated.

The amnesty - initially limited to ordinary protesters charged over involvement in past street clashes - was suddenly expanded two weeks ago to include anyone investigated by agencies set up after the 2006 coup.

It was as a result of one of those investigations that Mr Thaksin was jailed, our correspondent reports.

31 Oct 2013 - Yingluck avoids the amnesty bill debate by claiming a cabinet meeting to attend

BANGKOK, Oct 31 Thailands parliamentary debate on the controversial Amnesty Bill kicked off today without the presence of Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, who asked to be absent to attend the Cabinet meeting upcountry.

Under tight security, the session was to deliberate the bill in its second and third readings after it was passed by the House scrutiny committee.

Jurin Laksanavisit, Democrat MP and opposition whip, opened the floor with a question on Ms Yinglucks non-appearance and Parliaments failure to broadcast the debate on state-owned television Channel 11.

House speaker Somsak Kiatsuranont said Ms Yingluck has submitted a letter stating her need to be away to attend the weekly Cabinet meeting, this week taking place in Lopburi

[note opposition were severely restricted by the speaker of the house from speaking out at all, and basically were unable to debate the bill - the PM didn't even bother to attend]

Example 2: lying about rice pledging

Example 3: lying about tablets specs

Example 4: lying about first job income levels

Example 5: preventing public participation in the flood management plan

Example 6: refusal to allow any details on the high speed rail scheme even though it commits Thailand to 50 years of repayments with no business case outlined

Example 7: white lies about GDP performance by the DPM/finance minister

Example 8: ongoing refusal to admit why the PM doesn't ever seem to turn up for work

Example 9: lying about vote rigging in the house (people voting on other people's behalf)

Example 10: lying about the involvement of Thaksin in running the country

etc etc

It's not a smear campaign, it's simply an arrogant attitude that 'we got a majority so we don't have to say anything to you 'rubbish protesters' (words used by the govt to describe anyone that doesn't agree with the flood management scheme of Plodprasob) which results in people not trusting anything they say. PT are not alone in generating mistrust; the Dems and BJT suffer from it just as much - the main difference is with a mandate of the majority, instead of being inclusive, PT are arrogant to think they can do whatever they want - in this regard they do not understand democracy at all.

As for why opposition don't call them out on it, well other than the censure motion, now there is no opposition, in fact I have no idea what any of the parties stood for in the Feb 2 election including PT. Well other than Chuwit :-) he stands for being the "chuck Norris" of Thai politics.

[tingtongteesood]

Bullshit, that PT twit is a nasty piece of work and he should have been locked up long ago for a litany of stupidity.Stupidity is not a crime and there aren't any substantiated charges. Weak.

He has been sentenced by the courts to a 1 year prison term, what more do you need ?!

The courts are corrupt. They sentence without any real evidence. What is his crime? Causing someone to lose face? This should not be a crime especially when the accusations are true.

So y7u are one of the red sheeple and anything that the courst say against PT and all Taksin's cronies will be either 'a conspiracy' or 'politically motivated'. You keep bleating on that Suteb and protestrors should all be arrested, removed by force, fined, locked up etc. and that laws should be followed yet PT ignore anything they don't like, the law applies when they want it to and doesn't when they don't. Got news for you THE RULE OF LAW APPLIES TO EVERYONE, NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW. I shall add you to the list of detritus then...

[dukebowling]

The downfall of the rice program was when India opened up it's export ban at the same time Thailand took it's rice off the market to create a shortage and increase the price per ton. To say the plan backfired is an understatement. Huge blunder…although not illegal.

That lesson was learned quite rapidly. So what do you call continuing with a scheme when it is obvious you have made a huge blunder?

I don't know…a commitment to your political promise?

The PTP put themselves in a difficult spot by using the rice pledging policy to get voted into power. It would have been hard to back out before the next election if they want to get re-elected. Although the current political tension may provide a way out.

Edited February 4, 2014 by dukebowling

[icommunity]

It is exactly a hand out. It is a handout solely for some rice farmers, no one else, who are paid to grow something that is then stored and not sold until it is worthless. There are huge side benefits to other related parties. It is not an investment, any more than me dropping money on prostitutes and booze is 'an investment'. If you do not understand how economics of this scheme works, I suggest learning about the 'broken window' parable in economics - superficially a thief breaking a window generates economic growth - work for the glazier, work for the glass factory etc. but in reality, money spent on fixing the window has an opportunity cost, denying some other activity for which the money should have been used but wasn't (e.g. the shop investing in more inventory/staff,etc).

In no way does rice pledging provide any form of food security (you have mentioned this several times) - food security is provided through control of inventory, a budget set aside for the free market to purchase and operate efficiently, and ongoing improvements in yields, restrictions on exports. This scheme does none of those things, it removes diversity in crops by area, and can only be described as a drain on the national economy. In fact, the ongoing rumours of rotting rice in our food supply and complaints on rice quality indicate that if anything, this scheme is undoing food security.

Furthermore, the govt is the least able to market and sell rice - govts are usually the most useless at any given task; they are destroying the rice industry because they are setting themselves up as the sole buyer of all rice, only possible because they have us (the taxpayers) being forced to pay for it.

A better scheme would be to have a crop subsidy with a price floor for multiple crops, coupled with a direct payment to specific families for reducing their input costs slightly; protecting farmers in all industries from the impact of the open market, giving them security and providing the most needy with help. We had this scheme before. It is relatively cheap, it is far easier to administrate, and less open to corruption. It also does not give rice farmers a 'free lunch' nor does it mean they are stuck as they are now, with no money and no rice having paid all the costs.

The reality, is long term the ongoing shift of farmers out of the fields and continuing to employ more Thais in factories/services rather than subsistence farming is also how Thailand will escape the middle income trap.

Fiscal responsibility dictates that rule by the majority should be restricted to doing things in the public interest i.e. just because I was elected by popular mandate as PM I should not be allowed to hold bunga bunga parties and do whatever I want "just because I was voted in with a majority" - there must be oversight either before, during and/or after. The same applies for policy - if the policy is idiotic, it should be not an option for a govt to undertake without consequence.

I am sure the government is listening and studying the overall farming industries and that include some of your suggestion here. Rice pledging is not a permanent scheme. The ability of a government to manage changes domestically and globally is the 'DNA' I am looking for when come to election. Reforming agriculture sector without land reform is not an option and this is politically suicidal at the moment. Thaksin wanted to do that and that is what he is getting - by all means get rid of him.

IMO, there is no proof that the government betrayed the faith and trust of the voters and decided to do whatever it like. It is more a perception from distortion, misinformation and smear campaigns.

I am getting a little political here. I don't see the oppositions coming out with any alternative or policies and willing to articulate them during an election.

Why should the opposition use their collective intelligence to help a government who they hate and who hates them back?

Would you go to your sworn enemy and give him suggestions on the best way to sort out his problems? Of course you wouldn't, you would sit back and watch him fail and feel satisfied.... I know I would.

I don't see PM Yingluck's administration has a hate policy. They do not have sworn enemy the way you accused them. PM YS had on many occasion said she welcome criticism but it should be constructive not destructive.

The dem had a hate and fear policy on Thaksin. They spent their entire two and half years hounding him using tax payers money and national resources even to the extend of telling lies to the world that it has an international arrest warrant. Yet they failed because the world accepted him as a politically persecuted person.

What had profited Thailand in their continuous fight against the so called Thaksin regime, root up Thaksin influence or Thaksinism, They have a hate campaign against not just Thaksin but the entire Shinawatra and threatened that they will be chased out of Thailand and their children will not be able to speak Thais.

The conclusion that I am going to make is that their collective intelligence have not been able to come up with an alternative to face the mandate of the people. They engrossed in their hate and fear, self pity and living in a victim mentality world.

Your attitude of seeing your enemy/competitor failed and miserable is making you continue to fail. It is the same as if you focus on winning an election you will fail. When you thanks your enemy/competitor and focus on winning the heart and mind of the people, you increase the chances of winning. It is the same as in everyday life.

It is OK if the dem and Thaksin hater and fearers want to be destructive. This is what they are going through now and hoping that their grandfather court/independence agencies can continue to give them goodies and never grow up.

[dukebowling]

He has been sentenced by the courts to a 1 year prison term, what more do you need ?!

The courts are corrupt. They sentence without any real evidence. What is his crime? Causing someone to lose face? This should not be a crime especially when the accusations are true.

So y7u are one of the red sheeple and anything that the courst say against PT and all Taksin's cronies will be either 'a conspiracy' or 'politically motivated'. You keep bleating on that Suteb and protestrors should all be arrested, removed by force, fined, locked up etc. and that laws should be followed yet PT ignore anything they don't like, the law applies when they want it to and doesn't when they don't. Got news for you THE RULE OF LAW APPLIES TO EVERYONE, NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW. I shall add you to the list of detritus then...

Sorry to upset you, try not to take my comments so personally.

I'm not sure about the criminal charges against Suthep, but I think individual protesters should be arrested for their crimes accordingly one at a time.

My point is that the court continually delivers verdicts that defy logic and the constitution. This long history of corruption needs to end.

[Mosha]

scheme was plagued with irregularities, corruptions at all levels of implementation and significantly does not benefit the majority

Sounds about right for everything done by the PTP.

When will some posters ever grow up and realise that merely posting childish attacks is not funny to anyone other than themselves?

[smileydude]

The reason to scrap this scheme is simple.

It was implemented to make money and not necessarily benefit farmers, that was a guise.

Thaksin thought in all his cleverness that he could manipulate world rice prices by hoarding millions of tons of rice and when demand was beyond supply he could sell them at inflated prices. Of course he wanted to make commission on top of his scheme and at the same time guarantee rice prices for farmer = votes.

He forgot that India, Vietnam and other rice producing countries did not need to play by his rules thus they upped their production and world rice prices fell below the estimated 12000 baht/ton. Now the government needs to sell the rice at market rates of 7000 baht/ton which is better then letting the stocks rot in storage as advised by TDRI but they knew that if they did that they would not gain any profits and hardly raise enough money to pay off all the farmers (even though the guaranteed price to farmers was about 5700 baht/ton) with the remaining 6300 baht to be shared among those colluding in the scheme. They are holding on to the rice stocks out of greed and to hide their losses but rice has a limited shelf life unlike other commodities so Thaksin made a bad miscalculation.

Now hardworking but unpaid farmers and taxpayers are paying the penalty.

Subsidies are not necessarily a bad thing if the intention is to allow farmers time to increase their yield/acre efficiency versus costs to the point that they are competitive enough to survive in world markets. Japan is well known for subsidizing its agricultural industry. Once farmers have developed their competitiveness then subsidizes can gradually be reduced to zero until market mechanisms determine the prices. But in this case the rice subsidies are just a front for embezzling and should have never passed parliamentary scrutiny if the proper checks and balances (that are gravely lacking in Thailand) were in place.

Edited February 4, 2014 by smileydude