China cancels Thailand rice deal amid probe

[edwinchester]

whay would China want to buy rice from Thailand in the first place...they don't grow their own?

Of course they grow rice of their own. The domestic shortfall is made up by imports.

[steveromagnino]

The 2 things are completely separate, one the rice pledging ( I don't support, never have), two, the commercial transaction to sell rice to China. Any sane person would support that...it gets the farmers paid and reduces the mountain, albeit at a loss. That transaction has been derailed by Suthep . Tragic for everyone, especially the farmers. I'm not surprised the Chinese got cold feet...but there is no reason why the sale should not proceed. In fact, it's in everyone's best interests that it does so ( apart from a few obsessions who see something corrupt in a straightforward, transparent transaction). Mystifying

The transaction was not derailed by Suthep, it never appeared to exist as any more than a verbal vague commitment with no pricing or details agreed. Maybe that is a straightforward transparent transaction to some, but it certainly isn't to me (one of the many people paying for this scheme). How Suthep could derail it as a protester I have no idea; the PM or government officials or the Chinese could derail it - what power does Suthep have??? Zero other than the power to show corruption!

Like most of the other G2G deals, it never was real, it is fairytales and handbags.

This was the original claim - 1million tons starting with 500,000 tons in Dec to the Chinese - we should have seen deliveries already made and cash in:

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/china-agrees-buy-1-million-tonnes-rice-one-year/

echoed by the PM in Oct - note it was only said by Thai side, never said by Chinese side AFAIK

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/10/thai-pm-says-rice-deal-secured-with-china-20131013145918839617.html

Now the scheme is 'cancelled' again only according to the Thai side, never by the Chinese side AFAIK, and the sale was supposedly to an unnamed state enterprise in Harbin; note from other sources we know that the same govt spokesperson had no problem stating the name of another company interested to purchase 1m tons of rice in China (China National Cereals, Oils and Foodstuffs Corporation, a Chinese state-owned food conglomerate) but refused to give the details of the company who actually supposedly signed the contract no one has ever seen for 1.2m tons (different details than what was previously stated by the spokesperson and the PM in the past also). Deliveries in December vanished without a trace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26028335

Now when we bear in mind the Thai govt (i.e. PT via the commerce ministry) claimed they would sell 8.5m tons for 2013 in Nov worth approx. 183 billion baht with 7m tons via G2G deals

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_281113-1.html

Then in Dec admitted the real number was likely to be more like 6.7m tons in Dec (1 month later) worth around 125 billion only for 2013 including G2G of 4.7m but even then the rice exporters themselves dispute this number claiming the G2G deals are lower than what the govt is claiming

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_271213-1.html

And what is interesting, is who actually buys Thai rice, coincidentally no China here in the past so it really would be a major win if Thailand had managed to sell rice to China this time around: "Thailands top five rice importers include Benin, Iraq, South Africa, the U.S. and Ivory Coast."

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_291213-1.html

We know what Thailand has been selling rice for: Thailand has sold 5%-white rice at 450 U.S. dollars/ton or approx. 13,500b per ton (supposedly) and apparently even trying to sell 5% at $420 USD (around 13,000b per ton) they cannot find customers in the private sector, so there has to be some seriously odd things going on if a foreign state wants to pay more for no reason (they could just buy from the private sector at a lower price rather than the G2G price) - hence the likely corruption on both sides of the transaction hidden by claims of 'security secrecy':

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_291213-1.html

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_171213-2.html

Now there are claims of other deals, like to Indonesia and Iran, but these are for hundreds of thousands of tons, which are way, way less than the sorts of numbers we need to raise funds

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_061213-1.html

The current stockpile, depending who you listen to is somewhere between 10m tons, and 16 and 17m tons (16m in this article).

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_061213-1.html

Note that 1 million tons of rice would generate around 15 billion baht in a best case scenario (more likely they would be getting a price of around 13 billion at the most less delivery costs etc; as the scheme is short around 200 billion baht at last estimate and they need an instant 50 -77 - 130 billion baht to pay the farmers now (depending who you listen to), the numbers don't even come close to adding up - it is a drop in the bucket compared to the actual loss - we need to do another 3-9 deals of the same size immediately just to raise the cash needed. As we do not have the rice on hand (the government claims to have stockpiles but no one knows the quality or size of the stockpiles, and it's likely a bunch of rice is missing gone forever/never existed).

BTW Thailand imports some rice and exports Thai rice - Thai rice used to be world renowned for fragrance, quality and good pricing - at the right price why not sell abroad to other countries who grow rice - no issue. But the problem is trying to corner the market when you are not in an oligopoly situation; Mingkwan tried it in 2007 and it was a disaster...only PT would be so unwise to try the same thing again expecting a different outcome, but I guess its easy when they are only spending our money, not their own.

As I said, if Thaksin wants to support Thai rice farmers only (note there is no similar scheme for other crops) because they think the market price will rise, then the Shinawatras are rich enough to buy the rice for export themselves at the pledge price of 15,000, and they are welcome to the profits stemming from such a venture. No problem.

Edited February 4, 2014 by steveromagnino

[Ricardo]

From the OP :-

(BBC) Thailand has announced that a contract to sell more than a million tonnes of rice to China has been cancelled.

"The Ministry of Commerce said the Chinese government pulled out of the the deal to buy 1.2 million tonnes of rice because of an ongoing probe."

but then, on Friday they had said :-

BANGKOK, 1 February 2014 (NNT) - Commerce Minister Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisal has told the press that the Thai government’s Chinese trade partner is concerned about its rice trade with Thailand and might call off the rice deal after the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) launched a probe into the rice pledging scheme.

"The minister on Friday said the Pei Ta Hwang company, Thailand’s Government-to-Government trade partner in the rice support program, was concerned that its one-million-ton rice purchase contract with the Thai government might later cause problems."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/701135-commerce-minister-chinese-company-might-tear-up-rice-purchase-contract-made-with-thailand/

Isn't it interesting how the Chinese contract has grown, from one million tonnes a few days ago, to "1.2 million tonnes of rice" today ?

So is the difference a 'white lie', or proof that the Ministry don't know their arse from their elbow, or merely proof that numbers are infinitely-variable, when it comes to the riceberg ?

Edited February 4, 2014 by Ricardo

[Chupup]

The 2 things are completely separate, one the rice pledging ( I don't support, never have), two, the commercial transaction to sell rice to China. Any sane person would support that...it gets the farmers paid and reduces the mountain, albeit at a loss. That transaction has been derailed by Suthep . Tragic for everyone, especially the farmers. I'm not surprised the Chinese got cold feet...but there is no reason why the sale should not proceed. In fact, it's in everyone's best interests that it does so ( apart from a few obsessions who see something corrupt in a straightforward, transparent transaction). Mystifying

The transaction was not derailed by Suthep, it never appeared to exist as any more than a verbal vague commitment with no pricing or details agreed. Maybe that is a straightforward transparent transaction to some, but it certainly isn't to me (one of the many people paying for this scheme). How Suthep could derail it as a protester I have no idea; the PM or government officials or the Chinese could derail it - what power does Suthep have??? Zero other than the power to show corruption!

Like most of the other G2G deals, it never was real, it is fairytales and handbags.

This was the original claim - 1million tons starting with 500,000 tons in Dec to the Chinese - we should have seen deliveries already made and cash in:

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/china-agrees-buy-1-million-tonnes-rice-one-year/

echoed by the PM in Oct - note it was only said by Thai side, never said by Chinese side AFAIK

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/10/thai-pm-says-rice-deal-secured-with-china-20131013145918839617.html

Now the scheme is 'cancelled' again only according to the Thai side, never by the Chinese side AFAIK, and the sale was supposedly to an unnamed state enterprise in Harbin; note from other sources we know that the same govt spokesperson had no problem stating the name of another company interested to purchase 1m tons of rice in China (China National Cereals, Oils and Foodstuffs Corporation, a Chinese state-owned food conglomerate) but refused to give the details of the company who actually supposedly signed the contract no one has ever seen for 1.2m tons (different details than what was previously stated by the spokesperson and the PM in the past also). Deliveries in December vanished without a trace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26028335

Now when we bear in mind the Thai govt (i.e. PT via the commerce ministry) claimed they would sell 8.5m tons for 2013 in Nov worth approx. 183 billion baht with 7m tons via G2G deals

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_281113-1.html

Then in Dec admitted the real number was likely to be more like 6.7m tons in Dec (1 month later) worth around 125 billion only for 2013 including G2G of 4.7m but even then the rice exporters themselves dispute this number claiming the G2G deals are lower than what the govt is claiming

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_271213-1.html

And what is interesting, is who actually buys Thai rice, coincidentally no China here in the past so it really would be a major win if Thailand had managed to sell rice to China this time around: "Thailands top five rice importers include Benin, Iraq, South Africa, the U.S. and Ivory Coast."

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_291213-1.html

We know what Thailand has been selling rice for: Thailand has sold 5%-white rice at 450 U.S. dollars/ton or approx. 13,500b per ton (supposedly) and apparently even trying to sell 5% at $420 USD (around 13,000b per ton) they cannot find customers in the private sector, so there has to be some seriously odd things going on if a foreign state wants to pay more for no reason (they could just buy from the private sector at a lower price rather than the G2G price) - hence the likely corruption on both sides of the transaction hidden by claims of 'security secrecy':

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_291213-1.html

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_171213-2.html

Now there are claims of other deals, like to Indonesia and Iran, but these are for hundreds of thousands of tons, which are way, way less than the sorts of numbers we need to raise funds

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_061213-1.html

The current stockpile, depending who you listen to is somewhere between 10m tons, and 16 and 17m tons (16m in this article).

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_061213-1.html

Note that 1 million tons of rice would generate around 15 billion baht in a best case scenario (more likely they would be getting a price of around 13 billion at the most less delivery costs etc; as the scheme is short around 200 billion baht at last estimate and they need an instant 50 -77 - 130 billion baht to pay the farmers now (depending who you listen to), the numbers don't even come close to adding up - it is a drop in the bucket compared to the actual loss - we need to do another 3-9 deals of the same size immediately just to raise the cash needed. As we do not have the rice on hand (the government claims to have stockpiles but no one knows the quality or size of the stockpiles, and it's likely a bunch of rice is missing gone forever/never existed).

BTW Thailand imports some rice and exports Thai rice - Thai rice used to be world renowned for fragrance, quality and good pricing - at the right price why not sell abroad to other countries who grow rice - no issue. But the problem is trying to corner the market when you are not in an oligopoly situation; Mingkwan tried it in 2007 and it was a disaster...only PT would be so unwise to try the same thing again expecting a different outcome, but I guess its easy when they are only spending our money, not their own.

As I said, if Thaksin wants to support Thai rice farmers only (note there is no similar scheme for other crops) because they think the market price will rise, then the Shinawatras are rich enough to buy the rice for export themselves at the pledge price of 15,000, and they are welcome to the profits stemming from such a venture. No problem.

Ok, PRBKK, read this as it will surly answer your question IMHO the best post i have read on this subject

[assayer]

Rice scheme burns out. Tablet maker bankrupt. First time car buyers not getting their rebates. That's 0/3 for the Shin populist promises! Well done!

The spin meister is back ...surely not even you could blame YL for this. Blame here is squarely with Suthep. No other explanation warrants consideration.

So, since Suthep helped to expose the rice scam, he is to balme for the G/G deal falling apart. ARE you for Real??

[JoeThePoster]

China cancels Thailand rice deal amid probe

Dam_n, I was really looking forward to taking a Chinese hi-sapeed train from Kunming to Hatyai.

[marcusd]

The 2 things are completely separate, one the rice pledging ( I don't support, never have), two, the commercial transaction to sell rice to China. Any sane person would support that...it gets the farmers paid and reduces the mountain, albeit at a loss. That transaction has been derailed by Suthep . Tragic for everyone, especially the farmers. I'm not surprised the Chinese got cold feet...but there is no reason why the sale should not proceed. In fact, it's in everyone's best interests that it does so ( apart from a few obsessions who see something corrupt in a straightforward, transparent transaction). Mystifying

As I said before AMAZE ME! How is it Sutheps fault? he is in Bangkok and on my drives through middle Thailand I see lots of rice in BIG TIN SHEDS and no one blocking access. So I did not see protesters or Suthep. Rice could have been shipped but why did it not go? The deal was a SHAM in the first place or rice would be moving!

i said it again, i think you are confined behind concrete walls and cannot see outside. Or you are some computer AUTOBOT

[steveromagnino]

Ok, PRBKK, read this as it will surly answer your question IMHO the best post i have read on this subject

Thanks for the kind words, Chupup. Needless to say, I am not enamoured with the scheme :-)

The degree of lies relating to this program is simply unreal; that there is no real oversight and total denial of the problems is exactly why PT have ended up with the current situation - note they could have raised funds easily - instead they spent their time (when they knew they would run out of cash in Oct) misrepresenting the impact of G2G and pretending it would all be ok; I can only guess so that things would seem good and they could force through the amnesty bill while avoiding the censure debate in Nov.

In other words, I would imagine they believed the freedom of 1 man ranked higher than the welfare of millions of rice farmers.

They chose to conceal the lies about the scheme in the censure debate against them in late November, although it did emerge that Yingluck had 'never attended' meetings relating to rice policy, even as the chairwoman of the policy committee.

They were then given the opportunity to raise funds since Nov (when they started defaulting) but since they were bound by their own lies, I honestly think they forgot how important it would be to secure the budget before calling a snap election. They then tried to pressure the EC to rule on it, which failed since the EC has no ability to provide budget for it and most people saw through the cynical scheme. By this time, they left it so late, it was difficult to use their normal method of Enron style off balance sheet style financing from KTB/BAAC etc. EC told them they could still go ahead and pay for it...but it was on them.

They chose, once again, to look after themselves rather than their farmer voting base.

It is hard to imagine a more idiotic way to run a country and waste 700 billion baht. To put in perspective, there are approximately 7m tax payers in Thailand, each is paying into this scheme on average approximately 100,000b, which is then mostly going to govt parties, and a few crumbs to the farmers*.

Nice work if you are on the govt side, pretty lame if you are a farmer, and absolutely awful if you are the one paying for it.

* I ain't an accountant, so me numbers might be wrong. Maybe I can be Finance Minister. I am also good at not turning up to work, and I like flying around the world. Maybe I can be Prime Minista.

Edited February 4, 2014 by steveromagnino

[namatjira]

Let me tell you one thing for sure, my first stay in Thailand was at soi 6 in Pattaya and I can tell you,

ooooooohhhhhhhhh these probes hurt

[Why ask]

Ok, PRBKK, read this as it will surly answer your question IMHO the best post i have read on this subject

Thanks for the kind words, Chupup. Needless to say, I am not enamoured with the scheme :-)

The degree of lies relating to this program is simply unreal; that there is no real oversight and total denial of the problems is exactly why PT have ended up with the current situation - note they could have raised funds easily - instead they spent their time (when they knew they would run out of cash in Oct) misrepresenting the impact of G2G and pretending it would all be ok; I can only guess so that things would seem good and they could force through the amnesty bill while avoiding the censure debate in Nov.

In other words, I would imagine they believed the freedom of 1 man ranked higher than the welfare of millions of rice farmers.

They chose to conceal the lies about the scheme in the censure debate against them in late November, although it did emerge that Yingluck had 'never attended' meetings relating to rice policy, even as the chairwoman of the policy committee.

They were then given the opportunity to raise funds since Nov (when they started defaulting) but since they were bound by their own lies, I honestly think they forgot how important it would be to secure the budget before calling a snap election. They then tried to pressure the EC to rule on it, which failed since the EC has no ability to provide budget for it and most people saw through the cynical scheme. By this time, they left it so late, it was difficult to use their normal method of Enron style off balance sheet style financing from KTB/BAAC etc. EC told them they could still go ahead and pay for it...but it was on them.

They chose, once again, to look after themselves rather than their farmer voting base.

It is hard to imagine a more idiotic way to run a country and waste 700 billion baht. To put in perspective, there are approximately 7m tax payers in Thailand, each is paying into this scheme on average approximately 100,000b, which is then mostly going to govt parties, and a few crumbs to the farmers*.

Nice work if you are on the govt side, pretty lame if you are a farmer, and absolutely awful if you are the one paying for it.

* I ain't an accountant, so me numbers might be wrong. Maybe I can be Finance Minister. I am also good at not turning up to work, and I like flying around the world. Maybe I can be Prime Minista.

I like your first post, and agree with a lot of the second.

However, I'm sure there are significantly more than 7m tax payers in Thailand, and where does each paying 100,000 B into the rice scheme come from?

Is that the planned payback over 50 years by the pyschotics who initiated the scam?... you lost me at the end.

-m.

[bubblegum]

Rice scheme burns out. Tablet maker bankrupt. First time car buyers not getting their rebates. That's 0/3 for the Shin populist promises! Well done!

The spin meister is back ...surely not even you could blame YL for this. Blame here is squarely with Suthep. No other explanation warrants consideration.

5555555555555

<deleted> there never was a deal anyway !!!!!!!!!!

[bubblegum]

Well the blame is with the NACC for investigating this BS in the first place, a deal to buy rice from Thailand-the NACC calls 'corruption' the things this sham tribunal calls corruption is unbelievable

Going on a cooking show is corruption

Voting to amend the constitution so that the upper house is elected not appointed is corruption

Buying rice is corruption

The rice pledging scheme, aka a farm subsidy is corruption

Never ever seen a dumber post.

[bubblegum]

The 2 things are completely separate, one the rice pledging ( I don't support, never have), two, the commercial transaction to sell rice to China. Any sane person would support that...it gets the farmers paid and reduces the mountain, albeit at a loss. That transaction has been derailed by Suthep . Tragic for everyone, especially the farmers. I'm not surprised the Chinese got cold feet...but there is no reason why the sale should not proceed. In fact, it's in everyone's best interests that it does so ( apart from a few obsessions who see something corrupt in a straightforward, transparent transaction). Mystifying

Jeezzzzz what insights to a screwed up mind you give, tnx

[englishoak]

Hoping to sell 700 million tons this year?, how much rice stock

has Thailand got.

They better think up an alternative use for the rice,as none seems

to be getting sold, and the farmers keep growing more.

Thailand cancels the contract for kids tablets, while China cancels

the rice contract,(if there ever was one)

regards Worgeordie

From what has been written there was an MOU between Thailand and China. I haven't read where a contract was signed. It appears that at present, China doesn't want to pursue this issue further. That could change at any time.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

There was NEVER one.... trade doesn't work in that way.

In a nutshell, this.

[tominbkk]

I doubt there was ever any deal in the first place?

[Showbags]

China lacks confidence to do business with Thailand.... ....oh the pain

[MunterHunter]

Never ever seen a dumber post.

Hang around, you will see loads!

[Thai at Heart]

whay would China want to buy rice from Thailand in the first place...they don't grow their own?

Of course they grow rice of their own. The domestic shortfall is made up by imports.

Until there is a surplus. China also has a strategic stock to cover instant shortages.

[geriatrickid]

The Chinese are not backing out because of a probe.

Seriously, when have legalities or ethics ever stopped the Chinese from undertaking a transaction?

They are breaking the agreement because theyprobably wanted an additional reduction and didn't get it. Typical Chinese business practices.

Agreements with Chinese government and associated customers means nothing unless one has a big stick. The Thais were desperate for a deal and took the gamble and now they have been given a lesson in Chinese trade practices.

[AleG]

The transaction was not derailed by Suthep, it never appeared to exist as any more than a verbal vague commitment with no pricing or details agreed. Maybe that is a straightforward transparent transaction to some, but it certainly isn't to me (one of the many people paying for this scheme). How Suthep could derail it as a protester I have no idea; the PM or government officials or the Chinese could derail it - what power does Suthep have??? Zero other than the power to show corruption!

Like most of the other G2G deals, it never was real, it is fairytales and handbags.

This was the original claim - 1million tons starting with 500,000 tons in Dec to the Chinese - we should have seen deliveries already made and cash in:

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/china-agrees-buy-1-million-tonnes-rice-one-year/

echoed by the PM in Oct - note it was only said by Thai side, never said by Chinese side AFAIK

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/10/thai-pm-says-rice-deal-secured-with-china-20131013145918839617.html

Now the scheme is 'cancelled' again only according to the Thai side, never by the Chinese side AFAIK, and the sale was supposedly to an unnamed state enterprise in Harbin; note from other sources we know that the same govt spokesperson had no problem stating the name of another company interested to purchase 1m tons of rice in China (China National Cereals, Oils and Foodstuffs Corporation, a Chinese state-owned food conglomerate) but refused to give the details of the company who actually supposedly signed the contract no one has ever seen for 1.2m tons (different details than what was previously stated by the spokesperson and the PM in the past also). Deliveries in December vanished without a trace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26028335

Now when we bear in mind the Thai govt (i.e. PT via the commerce ministry) claimed they would sell 8.5m tons for 2013 in Nov worth approx. 183 billion baht with 7m tons via G2G deals

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_281113-1.html

Then in Dec admitted the real number was likely to be more like 6.7m tons in Dec (1 month later) worth around 125 billion only for 2013 including G2G of 4.7m but even then the rice exporters themselves dispute this number claiming the G2G deals are lower than what the govt is claiming

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_271213-1.html

And what is interesting, is who actually buys Thai rice, coincidentally no China here in the past so it really would be a major win if Thailand had managed to sell rice to China this time around: "Thailands top five rice importers include Benin, Iraq, South Africa, the U.S. and Ivory Coast."

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_291213-1.html

We know what Thailand has been selling rice for: Thailand has sold 5%-white rice at 450 U.S. dollars/ton or approx. 13,500b per ton (supposedly) and apparently even trying to sell 5% at $420 USD (around 13,000b per ton) they cannot find customers in the private sector, so there has to be some seriously odd things going on if a foreign state wants to pay more for no reason (they could just buy from the private sector at a lower price rather than the G2G price) - hence the likely corruption on both sides of the transaction hidden by claims of 'security secrecy':

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_291213-1.html

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_171213-2.html

Now there are claims of other deals, like to Indonesia and Iran, but these are for hundreds of thousands of tons, which are way, way less than the sorts of numbers we need to raise funds

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_061213-1.html

The current stockpile, depending who you listen to is somewhere between 10m tons, and 16 and 17m tons (16m in this article).

http://www.thairiceexporters.or.th/Int%20news/News_2013/int_news_061213-1.html

Note that 1 million tons of rice would generate around 15 billion baht in a best case scenario (more likely they would be getting a price of around 13 billion at the most less delivery costs etc; as the scheme is short around 200 billion baht at last estimate and they need an instant 50 -77 - 130 billion baht to pay the farmers now (depending who you listen to), the numbers don't even come close to adding up - it is a drop in the bucket compared to the actual loss - we need to do another 3-9 deals of the same size immediately just to raise the cash needed. As we do not have the rice on hand (the government claims to have stockpiles but no one knows the quality or size of the stockpiles, and it's likely a bunch of rice is missing gone forever/never existed).

BTW Thailand imports some rice and exports Thai rice - Thai rice used to be world renowned for fragrance, quality and good pricing - at the right price why not sell abroad to other countries who grow rice - no issue. But the problem is trying to corner the market when you are not in an oligopoly situation; Mingkwan tried it in 2007 and it was a disaster...only PT would be so unwise to try the same thing again expecting a different outcome, but I guess its easy when they are only spending our money, not their own.

As I said, if Thaksin wants to support Thai rice farmers only (note there is no similar scheme for other crops) because they think the market price will rise, then the Shinawatras are rich enough to buy the rice for export themselves at the pledge price of 15,000, and they are welcome to the profits stemming from such a venture. No problem.

I don't use the "Like" button, but this post deserves to be praised for its eloquence and the efforts to cite the relevant facts.

The Rice Scheme, on it's own and without even touching on any corruption aspects ought to be enough to send any government packing, that PTP still clings to power like barnacles to a sinking ship is mind boggling in the absolute lack of shame they are displaying.

[northernjohn]

Rice scheme burns out. Tablet maker bankrupt. First time car buyers not getting their rebates. That's 0/3 for the Shin populist promises! Well done!

The spin meister is back ...surely not even you could blame YL for this. Blame here is squarely with Suthep. No other explanation warrants consideration.

I bet they wouldn't have pulled out of it if their side had been squeaky clean. Probably going to be the political death of the Chinese who made the deal. China is not fond of being caught dealing with air heads.

Speaking of air heads. How can any one with all that has gone wrong with the rice scam consider it an honest policy.

Suthep should be given a reward for making it so obvious even the rice farmers can see through it.

[Thai at Heart]

The Chinese are not backing out because of a probe.

Seriously, when have legalities or ethics ever stopped the Chinese from undertaking a transaction?

They are breaking the agreement because theyprobably wanted an additional reduction and didn't get it. Typical Chinese business practices.

Agreements with Chinese government and associated customers means nothing unless one has a big stick. The Thais were desperate for a deal and took the gamble and now they have been given a lesson in Chinese trade practices.

They don't fancy anyone throwing any extra spotlight on this deal at all.

That always assumes that there was a deal at all anyway which I think isn't likely.

[northernjohn]

Rice scheme burns out. Tablet maker bankrupt. First time car buyers not getting their rebates. That's 0/3 for the Shin populist promises! Well done!

The spin meister is back ...surely not even you could blame YL for this. Blame here is squarely with Suthep. No other explanation warrants consideration.

The blame lies firmly at the door of Thaksin, Yingluck and Pheu Thai for their stupidly flawed and corrupt populist policies that are falling down now around their ears . . . no other explanation warrants consideration.

EDIT: By the way, is this the cancellation of the Rice Deal with China that China had previously denied even existed? If so, this Govt is piling lie on top of lie at the moment, I'll await the announcement next from China stating that they have no clue what "Thailand" is talking about and to stop putting words in their mouths.

I think that when he said

"The spin meister is back"

He was referring to his feeble attempt to cover up Yingluck.

[liddelljohn]

Another concern for would be Foreign Rice buyers is that much of the Rice mountain is now of mixed quality and also rotten ,so they have lost confidence in the once high quality rice of thailand product ,

[Showbags]

Another concern for would be Foreign Rice buyers is that much of the Rice mountain is now of mixed quality and also rotten ,so they have lost confidence in the once high quality rice of thailand product ,

Have you inspected it recently ?

How many weavels in it ?

[Old Man River]

Hoping to sell 700 million tons this year?, how much rice stock

has Thailand got.

They better think up an alternative use for the rice,as none seems

to be getting sold, and the farmers keep growing more.

Thailand cancels the contract for kids tablets, while China cancels

the rice contract,(if there ever was one)

regards Worgeordie

From what has been written there was an MOU between Thailand and China. I haven't read where a contract was signed. It appears that at present, China doesn't want to pursue this issue further. That could change at any time.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

There was NEVER one.... trade doesn't work in that way.

In what way? There is the one that people have been indicted for, and the one I wrote about today that has been discussed several times in the press. It sounds like you have confused them. In fairness to you, I am sure you are not the only one who has been likewise confused.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[northernjohn]

not such a surprise

Soon Suthep won t be needed to pull PT out, their voters will do it for him

I think the voters who support PT don't really care much about these things. They are influenced in other ways.

I agree. I speak to teachers at my issan school who have never heard of the rice scheme.

Kind of explains the lack of education here in Thailand.

[northernjohn]

Rice scheme burns out. Tablet maker bankrupt. First time car buyers not getting their rebates. That's 0/3 for the Shin populist promises! Well done!

The spin meister is back ...surely not even you could blame YL for this. Blame here is squarely with Suthep. No other explanation warrants consideration.

Rubbish once again. PTP implemented the rice plan against the advice of the democrats & general public, knowing the rice scheme was a doomed failure and that PTP are total incredible crooks who have botched all plans they had since they have been in offic .

No way Chinese would be foolish enough to get caught up in rice deals with PTP, whose horrible reputation precedes them. Not even buy dead dog meat from them. PTP & the Silo scam is yet another chapter in the depths of their unprecedented graft.

Stop making excuses for these swindlers and accept that they are getting what they deserve, as a reaction to the deeds they've done.

 
Stop making excuses for these swindlers and accept that they are getting what 
they deserve,

I disagree they are not in jail.

But I did like the bit about not buying dog meat.

[Old Man River]

Hoping to sell 700 million tons this year?, how much rice stock

has Thailand got.

They better think up an alternative use for the rice,as none seems

to be getting sold, and the farmers keep growing more.

Thailand cancels the contract for kids tablets, while China cancels

the rice contract,(if there ever was one)

regards Worgeordie

From what has been written there was an MOU between Thailand and China. I haven't read where a contract was signed. It appears that at present, China doesn't want to pursue this issue further. That could change at any time.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

There was NEVER one.... trade doesn't work in that way.

In what way? There is the one that people have been indicted for, and the one I wrote about today that has been discussed several times in the press. It sounds like you have confused them. In fairness to you, I am sure you are not the only one who has been likewise confused.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Further to my message above, the one I was discussing is per below

http://oryza.com/news/rice-news/china-cancels-deal-buy-12-million-tons-rice-thailand

There have been so many articles on Thai - China rice deals that it is hard to keep them straight.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[heybruce]

Rice scheme burns out. Tablet maker bankrupt. First time car buyers not getting their rebates. That's 0/3 for the Shin populist promises! Well done!

Yeah, too bad the misnamed Democrats don't want an election where they can campaign on the issues. Who knows, if they focused their energy on winning an election instead of overthrowing the government through street protests, they might win.

Stay on topic, this thread is about China cancelling the rice deal with Thailand, nothing to do with the Democrats boycotting the election...

... or are you so bitter you just cant let that one go?

Not bitter,it's not my country.

You gave up on being topic police after this post, though you seem to be concerned only about off-topic posts about the Democrats. I wonder why.

Thank you for the phrase "Democrats boycotting the election", I enjoy the absurdity. It does validate my claim that they are misnamed, doesn't it?

But, to make some concession to the topic, China is at least as corrupt as Thailand. Perhaps they canceled the deal because they were concerned about what the probe would reveal about their purchasing procedures.