Thai Army refuses govts request for troops to protect PM Yingluck

[harrry]

The army leader has a better head on his shoulders than the rest of the leaders in this country. Maybe he should run for PM. At least he follows proceedures.

He is not under the caretaker gov orders anyway. Only the king can order him what to do.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

At least you recognize one of Thailand's impediments to a full democracy.

The military does not consider itself subject to civilian oversight. That goes a long way in explaining why the military runs a state within a state.

Egypt and China have a similar structure where the military has its own businesses, investments and private social services.

Constitutionaly the army is not under the caretaker pm. It is under the THai people through the National Assembly with the King as the head of State.

THe caretaker PM and her cabinet are well and truly outnumbered by the Senate etc which comprise the National Assembly. It is Caretaker days not leadership by a PM.

[kimamey]

So how long before things "really" kick off?

Anyone venture to guess? C'mon now.....so many armchair quarterbacks here on TV you must surely have some idea or opinion.

Myself? No clue really......but I can tell you that I could give a rat's *@# what happens to these people. I'm a tourist, nothing more. Long as my money goes as far as it can - I could care less. Sounds harsh I realize....but let's face the facts - none of these Thai people you all care for give a $%@# about us foreigners, so why should we care about what happens to them? It's their country, let them fight and if necessary, die for it. Most other developed nations on the planet had similar periods of strife and despair. Why should Thailand be any different?

Change sometimes happens only after the most extreme measures take place.

Maybe I should mention that to my wife and our family. I think they might disagree.

So your a tourist. Not staying too long I hope.

[MunterHunter]

There are indeed legitimate channels in which to request assistance. This serves to keep the request lawful and to prevent abuses. However, as a State of Emergency is in effect and the PM's safety was at risk, the request to provide assistance in keeping the PM safe was not unreasonable. This was not a request to attack anyone or to even enforce the provisions of the SOE or arrest warrants. It was a request to secure a government building and to respond to an urgent need to prevent physical harm to the PM..

Earlier in this thread it was pointed out that the Caretaker PM already has some Military personnel assigned to her for protection... as i read the news article the Military were complaining about the method used to ask as opposed to the asking itself.

[heybruce]

I'm amazed at the number of posters who don't think the army should be subservient to the civilian government or that the party that lost in the last election can decide they will not accept the results of the election. Clearly the Democrats aren't the only ones who don't believe in democracy.

A question for the western posters: There have been a number of western countries that experienced economic chaos caused in whole or part by incompetent government. Did you advocate having these governments toppled by a military coup or mob rule?

Did we have a fully operation democratic system with checks and balances in place in those Western Countries ? No offence meant, but even in Greece, Spain and Portugal things finally work.

Thailand's checks and balances are whatever the military installed government put in the current constitution, which apparently can't be changed. In Greece, Spain, Portugal, and other countries citizens there staged headline making protests, but the governments were changed through the democratic process.

Thailand's democracy won't mature until elected governments are allowed to finish their terms, losing parties concentrate on positioning themselves to win the next election instead of toppling the elected government through any means possible, and the military stays in the barracks. It would help if Thailand's courts made it clear how the elected government can change the constitution that both sides in the political divide consider flawed.

[rubl]

The army leader has a better head on his shoulders than the rest of the leaders in this country. Maybe he should run for PM. At least he follows proceedures.

He is not under the caretaker gov orders anyway. Only the king can order him what to do.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

At least you recognize one of Thailand's impediments to a full democracy.

The military does not consider itself subject to civilian oversight. That goes a long way in explaining why the military runs a state within a state.

Egypt and China have a similar structure where the military has its own businesses, investments and private social services.

but ... but ... can just any T, D and H ask for army protection? Wouldn't there be an established procedure as to how 'eligeble' figures might ask for army protection, with even some paragraphs on 'urgent', 'emergency' requests? It's that what the general stated?

There are indeed legitimate channels in which to request assistance. This serves to keep the request lawful and to prevent abuses. However, as a State of Emergency is in effect and the PM's safety was at risk, the request to provide assistance in keeping the PM safe was not unreasonable. This was not a request to attack anyone or to even enforce the provisions of the SOE or arrest warrants. It was a request to secure a government building and to respond to an urgent need to prevent physical harm to the PM..

The caretaker Deputy Prime Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul has made the request, maybe thinking he's still head CAPO, but that setup got superseded by the CMPO. Now if k. Chalerm as head CMPO had made the request ... ...

[rubl]

I'm amazed at the number of posters who don't think the army should be subservient to the civilian government or that the party that lost in the last election can decide they will not accept the results of the election. Clearly the Democrats aren't the only ones who don't believe in democracy.

A question for the western posters: There have been a number of western countries that experienced economic chaos caused in whole or part by incompetent government. Did you advocate having these governments toppled by a military coup or mob rule?

Did we have a fully operation democratic system with checks and balances in place in those Western Countries ? No offence meant, but even in Greece, Spain and Portugal things finally work.

Thailand's checks and balances are whatever the military installed government put in the current constitution, which apparently can't be changed. In Greece, Spain, Portugal, and other countries citizens there staged headline making protests, but the governments were changed through the democratic process.

Thailand's democracy won't mature until elected governments are allowed to finish their terms, losing parties concentrate on positioning themselves to win the next election instead of toppling the elected government through any means possible, and the military stays in the barracks. It would help if Thailand's courts made it clear how the elected government can change the constitution that both sides in the political divide consider flawed.

We're getting a bit off topic, but follow this link for a analysis of the 2007 constitution in comparition with the 1997 version. Lots of checks and balances to protect the people added.

http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/Thailand-Eighteeth-Consititution.html

[bigbamboo]

I'm amazed at the number of posters who don't think the army should be subservient to the civilian government or that the party that lost in the last election can decide they will not accept the results of the election. Clearly the Democrats aren't the only ones who don't believe in democracy.

A question for the western posters: There have been a number of western countries that experienced economic chaos caused in whole or part by incompetent government. Did you advocate having these governments toppled by a military coup or mob rule?

Did we have a fully operation democratic system with checks and balances in place in those Western Countries ? No offence meant, but even in Greece, Spain and Portugal things finally work.

Thailand's checks and balances are whatever the military installed government put in the current constitution, which apparently can't be changed. In Greece, Spain, Portugal, and other countries citizens there staged headline making protests, but the governments were changed through the democratic process.

Thailand's democracy won't mature until elected governments are allowed to finish their terms, losing parties concentrate on positioning themselves to win the next election instead of toppling the elected government through any means possible, and the military stays in the barracks. It would help if Thailand's courts made it clear how the elected government can change the constitution that both sides in the political divide consider flawed.

That would be the constitution that was voted for by the people and incidentally by more people than voted for this government.

Hey....... that's democracy!

[Mosha]

The army leader has a better head on his shoulders than the rest of the leaders in this country. Maybe he should run for PM. At least he follows proceedures.

He is not under the caretaker gov orders anyway. Only the king can order him what to do.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

At least you recognize one of Thailand's impediments to a full democracy.

The military does not consider itself subject to civilian oversight. That goes a long way in explaining why the military runs a state within a state.

Egypt and China have a similar structure where the military has its own businesses, investments and private social services.

Very thin ice GK. I don't know about Thailand, but I believe in the UK the armed forces serve the head of state. AKA Queen Elizabeth II

[winstonc]

The UN isn't Thaksin's father, just like the UN isn't my father either. Thaksin's father is Lert Shinawatra. Your point?

The point being Thaksin has outright rejected the UN in the past... using the quote "The UN is not my father"

dont answer her she only wants to argue with a grown up.and continues to get her arse slapped..must be the colour of 2 beef tomatoes by now..

[ShannonT]

The UN isn't Thaksin's father, just like the UN isn't my father either. Thaksin's father is Lert Shinawatra. Your point?

The point being Thaksin has outright rejected the UN in the past... using the quote "The UN is not my father"

dont answer her she only wants to argue with a grown up.and continues to get her arse slapped..must be the colour of 2 beef tomatoes by now..

She? Her?

Who are you talking about?

[winstonc]

Not even the army will comply with you, you old witch!! ha ha ha

I would ask the moderators to remove this post and punish the member

I my self do not like the PM

But like her or not she is the PM and deserved the respect of the position

No she is a caretaker PM, she has failed miserably whilst PM, shes up on several charges of which she will get thrown out of office over (and have her party dissolved)

The only respect shes earned is the same respect you give to any vermin in your house...

It does not matter whether she is a failed PM or not. Insulting someone, anyone, whether a professional, politician, bar girl, prostitute, street cleaner, farmer, rubbish collector merely exposes your own level of intellect and human decency. Everyone has someone who loves them, be it their parents or children. I respect that and would never stoop so low as to calling them names.

Mom (RIP), thanks for teaching me values.

obviously a child that only a mother could love....the emotional last line doesnt cut any ice with me ..

[northernjohn]

government can rely on police, just it's not very convenient now to use lethal force against armed mob. The mob hates cops, and it's reciprocated, so it could be a shooting spree.

that's why army was asked, which is seen neutral.

now air force is involved, which means a drift within the army and a deeper devision of the unmentionable

Just goes to show you how much disunity in the country the Shinawatra's have managed to create and still they hang on. I am surprised they haven't left. I don't think there is any more money in the treasury for them to transfer to Dubai.

Getting on in years I thought the Shinawatra clan controlled the police.

Maybe they do and know how ineffective they really are. Why not get the red shirt brigade to protect her. Oop's forgot they are busy trying to cause trouble with the anti government protestors. Looks like she is in between a rock and a hard place. Maybe her brother could send her some of his black shirts.

There are people in Thailand hanging onto power for much longer than the Shinawatras.

Yes but that is in the business sector not the political one.

Don't bother to try to defend your self I already know your answer it is a group of mysterious unnamed people might even be some aliens in with them.

[heybruce]

I'm amazed at the number of posters who don't think the army should be subservient to the civilian government or that the party that lost in the last election can decide they will not accept the results of the election. Clearly the Democrats aren't the only ones who don't believe in democracy.

A question for the western posters: There have been a number of western countries that experienced economic chaos caused in whole or part by incompetent government. Did you advocate having these governments toppled by a military coup or mob rule?

Did we have a fully operation democratic system with checks and balances in place in those Western Countries ? No offence meant, but even in Greece, Spain and Portugal things finally work.

Thailand's checks and balances are whatever the military installed government put in the current constitution, which apparently can't be changed. In Greece, Spain, Portugal, and other countries citizens there staged headline making protests, but the governments were changed through the democratic process.

Thailand's democracy won't mature until elected governments are allowed to finish their terms, losing parties concentrate on positioning themselves to win the next election instead of toppling the elected government through any means possible, and the military stays in the barracks. It would help if Thailand's courts made it clear how the elected government can change the constitution that both sides in the political divide consider flawed.

That would be the constitution that was voted for by the people and incidentally by more people than voted for this government.

Hey....... that's democracy!

The 2007 vote in which the military junta made it illegal to criticize the document, and made it clear that if the constitution was not approved they would stay in power. Is that really your idea of a democratic vote?

[northernjohn]

Time for a foreign invasion. This country gets more deformed and twisted day by day. Forget the xenofobism and let foreigners (knowledge migrants) show Thais how to live in peace on equal grounds. No matter what color, race, geographic origin, wealth. This country is soo scre... that I decided today to leave. My children will not receive more of this juvenile 'education' from politics or people in the street. Selfdestruction; that will be the goal for many many Thais.

That is one thing I agree with.

The United Nations could send a temporary caretaker government until Thais are "re-educated".

It is post like yours that show me how little people know about what is happening out side their back yard.

the UN can't even help in Syria and that has problems far worse than Thailand has or ever could have.

You don't really think their is a sugar daddy with enough money to attempt a military dislodgment of the government do you.

[fab4]

I'm amazed at the number of posters who don't think the army should be subservient to the civilian government or that the party that lost in the last election can decide they will not accept the results of the election. Clearly the Democrats aren't the only ones who don't believe in democracy.

A question for the western posters: There have been a number of western countries that experienced economic chaos caused in whole or part by incompetent government. Did you advocate having these governments toppled by a military coup or mob rule?

Did we have a fully operation democratic system with checks and balances in place in those Western Countries ? No offence meant, but even in Greece, Spain and Portugal things finally work.

Have the recent actions of the Constitutional Court wrt the Amnesty Bill and the proposed amendment to the election of Senators completely passed you by rubl?

Checks and Balances anyone?

[northernjohn]

I would ask the moderators to remove this post and punish the member

I my self do not like the PM

But like her or not she is the PM and deserved the respect of the position

No she is a caretaker PM, she has failed miserably whilst PM, shes up on several charges of which she will get thrown out of office over (and have her party dissolved)

The only respect shes earned is the same respect you give to any vermin in your house...

It does not matter whether she is a failed PM or not. Insulting someone, anyone, whether a professional, politician, bar girl, prostitute, street cleaner, farmer, rubbish collector merely exposes your own level of intellect and human decency. Everyone has someone who loves them, be it their parents or children. I respect that and would never stoop so low as to calling them names.

Mom (RIP), thanks for teaching me values.

obviously a child that only a mother could love....the emotional last line doesnt cut any ice with me ..

Me either. Not trying to be crude but I think the poster would be saying some thing different if they were bent over and-----------------------well you can fill in the blank.

[heybruce]

I'm amazed at the number of posters who don't think the army should be subservient to the civilian government or that the party that lost in the last election can decide they will not accept the results of the election. Clearly the Democrats aren't the only ones who don't believe in democracy.

A question for the western posters: There have been a number of western countries that experienced economic chaos caused in whole or part by incompetent government. Did you advocate having these governments toppled by a military coup or mob rule?

Did we have a fully operation democratic system with checks and balances in place in those Western Countries ? No offence meant, but even in Greece, Spain and Portugal things finally work.

Thailand's checks and balances are whatever the military installed government put in the current constitution, which apparently can't be changed. In Greece, Spain, Portugal, and other countries citizens there staged headline making protests, but the governments were changed through the democratic process.

Thailand's democracy won't mature until elected governments are allowed to finish their terms, losing parties concentrate on positioning themselves to win the next election instead of toppling the elected government through any means possible, and the military stays in the barracks. It would help if Thailand's courts made it clear how the elected government can change the constitution that both sides in the political divide consider flawed.

We're getting a bit off topic, but follow this link for a analysis of the 2007 constitution in comparition with the 1997 version. Lots of checks and balances to protect the people added.

http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/Thailand-Eighteeth-Consititution.html

It is a bit off-topic, but an interesting link. Thanks.

I didn't see anything that would explain how the constitution can be amended.

[Spalpeen]

Not hard to see how Japan just walked in and took over the place in 1941. The Thai army was waiting for the proper forms to be stamped and put in the post.

[ShannonT]

she has failed miserably whilst PM, shes up on several charges of which she will get thrown out of office over (and have her party dissolved)

We seem to have a fortune teller among us.

Care to share with me the next winning lottery numbers?

[MunterHunter]

We seem to have a fortune teller among us.

Care to share with me the next winning lottery numbers?

Hell No! They are mine!

[Phatcharanan]

Might be the first concrete clue toward that C word no one wants to state

Better go out and buy a couple cases and some hard stuff, just stock up in case

yeeeesh

Such drama.

[MunterHunter]

Might be the first concrete clue toward that C word no one wants to state

Better go out and buy a couple cases and some hard stuff, just stock up in case

yeeeesh

Such drama.

such valuable contributions to the discussion.

[Boxclever]

Not even the army will comply with you, you old witch!! ha ha ha

I would ask the moderators to remove this post and punish the member

I my self do not like the PM

But like her or not she is the PM and deserved the respect of the position

OMG!!!! I liked a post by Tezza!. What is the world coming too?

He's Irish...take no notice of him

[fab4]

Did we have a fully operation democratic system with checks and balances in place in those Western Countries ? No offence meant, but even in Greece, Spain and Portugal things finally work.

Thailand's checks and balances are whatever the military installed government put in the current constitution, which apparently can't be changed. In Greece, Spain, Portugal, and other countries citizens there staged headline making protests, but the governments were changed through the democratic process.

Thailand's democracy won't mature until elected governments are allowed to finish their terms, losing parties concentrate on positioning themselves to win the next election instead of toppling the elected government through any means possible, and the military stays in the barracks. It would help if Thailand's courts made it clear how the elected government can change the constitution that both sides in the political divide consider flawed.

We're getting a bit off topic, but follow this link for a analysis of the 2007 constitution in comparition with the 1997 version. Lots of checks and balances to protect the people added.

http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/Thailand-Eighteeth-Consititution.html

But wasn't it only yesterday, or the day before, you said this

"May I remind you that over 90% of the text is identical to that wonderful 1997 people's constitution!"

So what's it to be, less than 10% of the constitution has been changed or "lots of checks and balances added"?

[Gweiloman]

Not even the army will comply with you, you old witch!! ha ha ha

I would ask the moderators to remove this post and punish the member

I my self do not like the PM

But like her or not she is the PM and deserved the respect of the position

OMG!!!! I liked a post by Tezza!. What is the world coming too?

He's Irish...take no notice of him

Really? On one thread, he said he's Aussie. And on another, Thai. All I know is that the moniker Tingtongseed would suit him better

[surangw]

these thugs are trusted with live ammo?

[3NUMBAS]

all the services are comedy bit part actors drawing a salary and generally square bashing and painting pansies in the barracks

[Howard150]

Not hard to see how Japan just walked in and took over the place in 1941. The Thai army was waiting for the proper forms to be stamped and put in the post.

Not hard to see how the caretaker government operates in 2014.

Nevermind proper procedures, just have Thaksin's cousin make an announcement to the media.

[Cricketnut]

government can rely on police, just it's not very convenient now to use lethal force against armed mob. The mob hates cops, and it's reciprocated, so it could be a shooting spree.

that's why army was asked, which is seen neutral.

now air force is involved, which means a drift within the army and a deeper devision of the unmentionable

Just goes to show you how much disunity in the country the Shinawatra's have managed to create and still they hang on. I am surprised they haven't left. I don't think there is any more money in the treasury for them to transfer to Dubai.

Getting on in years I thought the Shinawatra clan controlled the police.

Maybe they do and know how ineffective they really are. Why not get the red shirt brigade to protect her. Oop's forgot they are busy trying to cause trouble with the anti government protestors. Looks like she is in between a rock and a hard place. Maybe her brother could send her some of his black shirts.

There are people in Thailand hanging onto power for much longer than the Shinawatras.

Yes but that is in the business sector not the political one.

Don't bother to try to defend your self I already know your answer it is a group of mysterious unnamed people might even be some aliens in with them.

Oh we all know who they are, 100 year old shrewd Thai/Chinese investors in cock fighting amongst other pursuits. Don't know where you got the alien thing from, maybe up north...

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE 8.2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[mightyatom]

Not even the army will comply with you, you old witch!! ha ha ha

I would ask the moderators to remove this post and punish the member

I my self do not like the PM

But like her or not she is the PM and deserved the respect of the position

No she is a caretaker PM, she has failed miserably whilst PM, shes up on several charges of which she will get thrown out of office over (and have her party dissolved)

The only respect shes earned is the same respect you give to any vermin in your house...

It does not matter whether she is a failed PM or not. Insulting someone, anyone, whether a professional, politician, bar girl, prostitute, street cleaner, farmer, rubbish collector merely exposes your own level of intellect and human decency. Everyone has someone who loves them, be it their parents or children. I respect that and would never stoop so low as to calling them names.

Mom (RIP), thanks for teaching me values.

Get a grip on yourself.

I was taught values also by my mum.

I was also taught to respect people's opinion also which in itself is a virtuous value.

I am also in possession of a reasonable level of intellect.

I agree with those who say that respect is earned and not given by default. If someone wants to call Yingluck an old witch, that's fine with me, I happen to agree. My summary would be a lot more scathing after the damage she has facilitated her brother to create in this country where I, my wife and children have to live.

She has earned NO respect from either Thai or foreigner.

My wife personally thinks she should just drop dead already, and my wife has a master's degree and 2 bachelor's degrees. Don't even dare try to criticize my wife, she is Thai and you are not, so you are in no position to criticize anyone born and raised here.

What Thaksin, Yingluck and the PTP have done to this country, deserves zero respect and all the disrespect possible from every quarter.

The amount of money they are stealing from the people and the absolute trashing of Thailand's rice industry probably for at least the next decade, I am sure they can handle the odd witch comment.

Stop pretending you really care, they would not piss o9n you if you were on fire. You are no more than scum to these people.