Is There Really Racism In Thailand Or Is It Just Prejudice ?

[yanyk]

I am black and very hard working. I have decent education background and now fully armed with a BA and loads of teaching experience. Still it's really difficult for me to get a job in Thailand. At this one school, a week after I had started to teach, I was told that an Italian teacher would replace me cos "I was not qualified enough". I met the Italian teacher "Mr. Alex" and all the staff was so pleased to meet him. I found out the he was actually and Iranian refugee called ‘Ali'who didn't even have a high school diploma! What's more funny is that one of the other "English Native Speaker" in this same school was an Israeli who spoke some English but did not know the English alphabets and I was being replaced!! I kid you not! I have heard of worse scenarios than mine. Due to the fact that I am black and living in Thailand I try so hard to do more than what is required of me to keep a job. It's really painful to see backpackers and other not so qualified teachers replace us cos they are white. I dream of a day where all teachers in Thailand would have to go through a government sponsored screening process run by WHITES! Yes! We Blacks have a better chance of employment in Thailand when the interviewer is a CAUCASIAN!!
Having said this there are a handful of blacks that are paving the way for the rest of us. I was employed in a school outside of Bkk. simply because they were happy with a black teacher that once taught there. We have been through worse WE WILL OVER COME...SLOWLY BUT SURELY!

[Jingthing]

If you're being discriminated against unfairly based on your race/ethnic background, it obviously is racism. Most Thais might not see it that way but that doesn't mean it isn't so.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Jingthing

[ubonjoe]

I have removed a off topic and derogatory post plus quotes of it.

Since this topic is basically about teaching here I am moving it to the teaching forum.

[hansnl]

Sir, you are discriminated against.

Welcome in the club whose members are discriminated because of race, colour, religion, nationality or whatever.

But keep into account many Thai people are absolutely bananas about light, or preferably sickly white skin colour.

And, no way, will you or I or anybody else, ever be able to change this attitude.

Or, maybe, in a few generations.

By the way, a white teacher with oodles of qualifications, loads of diplomas, years of experience and also fluent in Thai, will be replaced if a Thai wants the job.

No qualifications or whatever will be needed.

Own people first!

[yanyk]

Sir, you are discriminated against.

Welcome in the club whose members are discriminated because of race, colour, religion, nationality or whatever.

But keep into account many Thai people are absolutely bananas about light, or preferably sickly white skin colour.

And, no way, will you or I or anybody else, ever be able to change this attitude.

Or, maybe, in a few generations.

By the way, a white teacher with oodles of qualifications, loads of diplomas, years of experience and also fluent in Thai, will be replaced if a Thai wants the job.

No qualifications or whatever will be needed.

Own people first!

i believe you, thank u..its really sad

[uptheos]

There's racism everywhere, it's not Thailand specific.

[robertthebruce]

Hi

Sorry to hear your plight, and its hard to believe in 2014, you have been treated that way..

Thai people, dont register it as being ''Racism'' , for some reason they just think anything White, is a bonus or a plus to there School or company, saying all that, if they could get a local to do it they would, as they prefer to employ there own...

I have met some ''Thai English Teachers'' and there complete lack of knowledge and teaching skills are beyond me...

[Bernard Flint]

Thailand is very skin racist,and, sadly this is a drug that farangs are picking up on. I feel for u, and hope u get sorted asap.

[Scott]

I have removed some rather nasty posts. Please stay on topic.

I am involved in the hiring for several schools. Thailand is quite racist and being black is a definite disadvantage. Out of hiring maybe close to 1,000 teachers over the years, I have been able to get 3 black people hired and the first one was hired from overseas and the director didn't realize he was black. The other two were simply outstanding in their field (upper level maths) and it was either hire them or a much less qualified Filipino.

It may not be much of a consolation, but in my experience the Thai admin (at least where I work) do not like anyone. We are a commodity and that is about it.

Best of luck. On racial issues, Thailand is speeding into the 1600's.

[cdmtdm]

yes racism is alive and well , it is a very brave post you made , well done mate ,,,,, i often say to my wife , now i know what the blacks have been struggling against for centuries , i get a reminder daily in LOS and i am white ...the common Thai mentality is if you have black skin, u must be a farmer and have no education therefore you are below us ... when posed the question, well the most powerful man in the world the President of the USA is black , how do u explain that ? too hard .....

I feel for you ,i am ashamed of the Thai people for being so ignorant and god knows how they will fit in with the other 9 ASEAN countries .... remember its not you that has the problem ...

goodluck dont give up man !!

[yanyk]

yes racism is alive and well , it is a very brave post you made , well done mate ,,,,, i often say to my wife , now i know what the blacks have been struggling against for centuries , i get a reminder daily in LOS and i am white ...the common Thai mentality is if you have black skin, u must be a farmer and have no education therefore you are below us ... when posed the question, well the most powerful man in the world the President of the USA is black , how do u explain that ? too hard .....

I feel for you ,i am ashamed of the Thai people for being so ignorant and god knows how they will fit in with the other 9 ASEAN countries .... remember its not you that has the problem ...

goodluck dont give up man !!

thanks so much..life is even harder when you are a black man..but trust me, i am not giving up, we are not giving up, and definitely no right thinking human being is giving up on this..because we all share humanity

[OumarhindaOunsingha]

Would like to know what is behind this racism - if anything at all. Is there a logical explanation to it? It must have a reason, must it not? Why is it so, that the lighter skin you have, in Thailand, the 'finer' and more beautiful you are? It is that they consider africans as a lower rung on the ladder of evolution or something? Just a suggestion. Or is it just something the Thai (all Asien, actually) people have decided out of no reason?

Because I really do not understand why it is so, here in Thailand - as well as in most of the world, actually.

Anyone has a clue?

[downtown]

considering thais are racist to some of their own folk, yes as a black person you are down the social strata.

just look to TV. endless ads about white skin, even featuring folk who already have white skin getting even more whiter skin. isnt there a cream now for ladies to make their vaginas whiter??

as usual, the media has a lot to answer for. how many tv presenters have dark skin - i havent seen any. occasionally you'll see a roving reporter with darker skin. soaps? any character with darker skin will invariably be a servant, maid, gardener, labourer, farmer etc..

[MAJIC]

If you need to ask the question,then unfortunately you already know the answer!

[Scott]

Historically, dark skin is associated with farm labor and time spent in the sun. Light skin was associated with people staying indoors and away from manual labor. So, to some extend it was possible to tell one's social status by the color of the skin.

Yesterday, I went to the Dr. and I took the Airport link and the Sky Train to avoid the protest sites. The ride home was during the later part of the afternoon. All the people who were wearing clothes for service type jobs like, Carrier A/C, Toyota, and other companies were darker skinned people. All of the people with light skin were wearing a shirt and Tie. This wouldn't fit 100%, but it was amazing how close to predicting a career one could get by just looking at skin color.

[timewilltell]

Sadly you are right, the Thais are a very racist bunch though their thought processes are absent as to reasoning why they behave the way they do. I am talking generalizations here because there are some who do not fit the average.

If you are not Thai then you are inferior but often the reverse is true. If you are foreign you will find it hard to get justice since the police will be disinclined to help you - although payment will overcome their particular racism. Lawyers will take your money and then work with the other side to ensure you do not win - you see they are uncontrolled and never lose their license to practice. Worse if you do find a lawyer who will actually do his job, senior lawyers will gang together to say he is bad because he is helping a foreigner sue Thais.

Unfortunately even so called professionals have no ethics through their racism - a serious consideration as to why not do business in Thailand.

I wish you the best in finding a post somewhere for the colour of your skin should be of no consequence. The Thais are in the Middle Ages I am sad to say.

[otherstuff1957]

I have two African American friends who teach or have taught in Thailand. While it was possible for them to find jobs, it was not easy. I should add that both of them have BAs.

One gave up on teaching and now does online work, the other is still teaching, but is only earning about 1/2 of my pay (though part of that differential is due to the fact that I am a Science teacher and he is an English teacher).

[zeichen]

It is sad and probably hurts us in our hearts, but I don't think there is anything malicious behind it. Yes it is prejudice and narrow minded but it is out of ignorance only. The International school I worked at had a wonderful balance of all types of people. Last week one of my friends from China came to visit. She is a large African American woman (lighter skin) in her 60's. When we went to my local market all of the vendors that know me asked if she was a relative. One asked if she was my mother. I thought that was quite funny.

People have a preconception what a native English speaker/ teacher should look like. Since most admin wouldn't know what makes a good teacher or even have a clue what is the best way to utilize native speaking teachers, they will fall on their preconception bias. It is wrong. I am not condoning it, but to label them as racist is a little severe. I have never heard any of my Thai colleagues make racist remarks against any of our guest lecturers that weren't white. We have had Pakistani, South African (white and black), Nepalese, and Singaporean professors visit. No one even whispered derogatory comments. None the less the typical policy is to hire white staff for English speaking positions. When they hire people that aren't white no one freaks out.

Unfortunately, for many of the positions that you and most "teachers" are qualified for are the dog and pony show variety. If you had a lot of experience and were a certified teacher, you would have less issues. But for the EFL positions they are trying to fit an image and not necessarily based on merit.

All I can say is that it won't be easy but when you do find a position, you will most likely be happy for a long time.

It will probably be another 50 years before the actual practice matches with the ideals of people. At least here you know up front where you stand. I hate in the US where they have the facade of mulch-culturilism but behind closed doors the racism is rampant or so subtle that it is more prevalent.

[Scott]

Racism is not what you hear people say. Racism is how people act.

[fifthcolumn]

OP you are simply more discriminated against than us whites. Don't think for a second that we whites are the least bit integrated here. At best, tolerated for the money we spend and there is a certain modicum of face that evety nation must show, especially one as toursit oriented as Thailand.

No offence, really but it is pretty well understood Asians general atitude towards dark skinned people. Fight it, many Africans work here. Or, try another region or continent like Latin America.

No quarter here, sorry. You are just more discriminated than the rest of us.

[tingtong]

Sure, Thai are racist. Part comes from their nationalistic upbringing i think, as they just as racist in ways toward the whites, the lao, the indians, etc, as you feel they are racist toward blacks.

however,

OP, in a way your statement also read racist:

"I dream of a day where all teachers in Thailand would have to go through a government sponsored screening process run by WHITES! Yes! We Blacks have a better chance of employment in Thailand when the interviewer is a CAUCASIAN!!"

isnt that funny?

[yanyk]

Sure, Thai are racist. Part comes from their nationalistic upbringing i think, as they just as racist in ways toward the whites, the lao, the indians, etc, as you feel they are racist toward blacks.

however,

OP, in a way your statement also read racist:

"I dream of a day where all teachers in Thailand would have to go through a government sponsored screening process run by WHITES! Yes! We Blacks have a better chance of employment in Thailand when the interviewer is a CAUCASIAN!!"

isnt that funny?

i am just trying to say that, if and only if they conduct proper screening where the so called 'native speakers' do the interviews, blacks will have higher chances, and i said when the interviewer is a caucasian, the chances of employment are higher..i am not in anyways racist and will never be

[Jingthing]

OP you are simply more discriminated against than us whites. Don't think for a second that we whites are the least bit integrated here. At best, tolerated for the money we spend and there is a certain modicum of face that evety nation must show, especially one as toursit oriented as Thailand.

No offence, really but it is pretty well understood Asians general atitude towards dark skinned people. Fight it, many Africans work here. Or, try another region or continent like Latin America.

No quarter here, sorry. You are just more discriminated than the rest of us.

Discrimination based only on race (or ethnicity, etc.) is racism by definition. Of course there are different levels of discrimination and racism. In some cases it's of no or trivial consequence but if a more qualified person loses a work opportunity because of it, that's a serious consequence

[Bernard Flint]

yes racism is alive and well , it is a very brave post you made , well done mate ,,,,, i often say to my wife , now i know what the blacks have been struggling against for centuries , i get a reminder daily in LOS and i am white ...the common Thai mentality is if you have black skin, u must be a farmer and have no education therefore you are below us ... when posed the question, well the most powerful man in the world the President of the USA is black , how do u explain that ? too hard .....

I feel for you ,i am ashamed of the Thai people for being so ignorant and god knows how they will fit in with the other 9 ASEAN countries .... remember its not you that has the problem ...

goodluck dont give up man !!

SIR

Very good post,but i have to put youright one one point.

Thai mentality is if you have black skin, u must be a farmer and have no education therefore you are below us

I fear that quite a few Bangkok farangs have the same mentality,maybe they mix with these racists

[zeichen]

"Racism is not what you hear people say. Racism is how people act. "

True, it is actually both not one or the other.

My point is that though hiring practices may not be equal opportunity, I would not go as far to say that the individuals are racist. The same person who doesn't hire someone for being black may actually just be following protocol. Though there is a desire for lighter skin that doesn't mean people don't date or fall in love with people outside of that norm. I have had friends not get jobs here we assume because of their ethnic background but at the same time they have great social lives with the same people that we are saying are racist.

There is no system in place to ensure equality, that doesn't mean everyone is racist. In the US we cannot even ask someone's nationality for hiring them, as long as they are legally able to work. However here nationality is one of the main criteria. Look at ads for secretaries early 20's attractive female wanted with at least 5-10 years experience. They don't even think what they write. How can someone have that much experience and only be 20 something?

My point was that in the West, you have to hire people based on merit (publicly) but silently there is as much prejudice and racism it is just more subtle.

All of the places that I have worked in Asia: Japan, Korea, China, and Thailand all have hiring priorities. It is sad but I still have never heard or witness any real racist actions like I saw in the US. I have never heard of a dark skin kid getting kicked to death by light skin Thais.

It was only 50 years ago in the US that even worse forms of racism were rampant and acceptable. It might take another 20-30 years for Thailand to create equal opportunity policies but I do have faith that it will happen. Because I truly believe that there policies for hiring aren't thought out. Pure ignorance rather than a strong opinion of racial superiority.

[SlyAnimal]

Yeah the schools generally don't want black teachers, or if they do, they often want to pay less.

Many of the people doing the hiring know that a person's skin colour doesn't effect their ability to teach. Just as they know that age doesn't make a huge difference and that being handsome doesn't make any difference at all.

However, they also know that the parents prefer Caucasian teachers, and that their school gains more prestige by having a "stable" of young handsome Caucasian teachers.

Its a bit sad, but its simply the world we live in

(Also as a brief aside, there often is also a difference between candidates as well. e.g. None of the official "Native English speaking countries" are located in Africa, and European/American universities generally have better international rankings than African universities. But in saying that, I know that an African American with a degree from an Ivy league college would likely have many of the same problems a teacher from Cameroon might have, even though they're a native speaker & have a very good qualification).

[Martyjustice]

Being married to a TW for 40 years, yes she was very racist. It did mellow out after 10 or 15 years in the US and other US military bases. Look on the bright side at least your not from Cambodia, it would be worse.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[zeichen]

"TW"

Is that actually how you refer to your partner of 40 years, and you think she is the racist one, Thanks for that laugh.

[Scott]

A post with a link to another forum has been deleted. This is not allowed.

And more off-topic posts have been deleted.

[Zatoichi]

Hi there OP I'm black American as well, and I've been here for ages. What your facing in the teaching field is not a new issue. But it's not for the reasons you think. Normally you would assume that a private school is selling a better standard of education. However here this is usually not the case. They are selling a image to ignorant parents who think white skin = better English ability. It's kind of like how back Stateside you may find that some people who are interested in Martial arts, opt for a Thai Muay Thai instructor over a white one even if the white one's record is better, or a Chinese Kung <deleted> instructor over a Mexican one even if he's been practicing longer.

It's BS yeah, but it's a business, and if you customer wants it you give it too them.

You may want to consider changing up your career choices and look for something that involves interacting with expats or better educated, more worldly Thais. For example when I first came here I didn't even consider teaching English as a viable job route. Instead I sold Time Share, for me it ended up paying a hell of alot more than most teachers, the hours were better and the only time I dealt with racism was from the occasional Brit after work. And even that was rare, maybe 3 times in 13 years.