Sound of ticking time bombs is getting louder for Yingluck

[diehard60]

yea know IF the democrat party had not boycotted the election they might have had a very good chance of getting in this time. I think they blew their chance of ever getting in now.

[MunterHunter]

Negative speculation by the self-indulgent OP.

The OP uses the literary and rhetorical device of the "Parade of Horribles" which allows any writer to stoop to an irresponsible and licentious recklessness by conjuring up from what otherwise are facts, such as dates and a constitution, his own preferred and warped political and constitutional scenario.

There are not only the two constitutional possibilities the OP falsely presents. Central to the matter of forming the next government are the by-elections this month. And there is the election coming next month of the half of the senate that are directly accountable to the electorate, and appointing the other half that are not, a process which this time will get an unprecedented, rigorous scrutiny from an attentive public.

Will Ultraman Suthep allow the Senate elections to proceed? The OP apparently doesn't bother to ask. Will Suthep still be on the loose and on the prowl by the time Senate elections occur next month? The OP doesn't want to think about that.

The OP's Parade of Horribles is indeed the rhetorical device in which the speaker hyperbolically catalogues the potential unpleasant outcomes of a course of events. Thus using the constitution, the OP tries to manipulate a real document into his own Parade of Desirables, which makes it easy to suspect the OP would love little more than to see democracy fail in Thailand.

In short, the OP bombs out in his rank hackings at the keyboard as he laughably looks into his crystal ball to All Fool's Day, which is his day indeed.

what a crock of <deleted>

[Jay Sata]

I don't think the Democrats fancied the idea of picking up the ticking time bomb that is the crazy rice pledging scheme.

[slapout]

She is safe as houses.

Could not be much clearer this week with the strong wording of the US, UN and EU to name but a few. That was some of the strongest diplomatic language I've heard here in over 20 years.

They said, DON"T coup and they directed this at everybody in Thailand and went out of their way to mention that it was directed to EVERY part of Thai Society. They know it's a judicial coup and Thailand is a backwater if they do push Yingluck out.

Day one of the new gov. The country if broke due to the whistle mob, they have the farmers on their doorstep, they can't sell the rice as they pissed off the chinese etc. etc. So a Junta would be starting from a much lower point even than the Government is now.

Add to this it is illigitimate judicial coup, will attract sanctions and scare off business with the Red shirts protesting and it's a recipie for disaster.

Which explains why the Army have cold feet and even some of the court cases have gone PT way!!

Some people seem to have a different outlook on what is on the horizen for Thailand when/if the present bunch of crooks are kicked out/resign or whatever. I have never been one to perscribe to the theory, its better to continue following a proven inhouse, incompentent, than to bring new blood onto the scene.

That is why most governments have a avenue to rid themselves of the situation that Thailand finds itself in at present. The notion/suggestion that its could get worse (the bogeyman will get you) sometimes works with children. But then they do not decide who will govern.

[Jip99]

She is safe as houses.

Could not be much clearer this week with the strong wording of the US, UN and EU to name but a few. That was some of the strongest diplomatic language I've heard here in over 20 years.

They said, DON"T coup and they directed this at everybody in Thailand and went out of their way to mention that it was directed to EVERY part of Thai Society. They know it's a judicial coup and Thailand is a backwater if they do push Yingluck out.

Day one of the new gov. The country if broke due to the whistle mob, they have the farmers on their doorstep, they can't sell the rice as they pissed off the chinese etc. etc. So a Junta would be starting from a much lower point even than the Government is now.

Add to this it is illigitimate judicial coup, will attract sanctions and scare off business with the Red shirts protesting and it's a recipie for disaster.

Which explains why the Army have cold feet and even some of the court cases have gone PT way!!

Since when has Thailand given a flying fart about (outside) diplomatic opinion.

The end game is approaching, after which Yingluk won't be involved.

[Publicus]

She is safe as houses.

Could not be much clearer this week with the strong wording of the US, UN and EU to name but a few. That was some of the strongest diplomatic language I've heard here in over 20 years.

They said, DON"T coup and they directed this at everybody in Thailand and went out of their way to mention that it was directed to EVERY part of Thai Society. They know it's a judicial coup and Thailand is a backwater if they do push Yingluck out.

Day one of the new gov. The country if broke due to the whistle mob, they have the farmers on their doorstep, they can't sell the rice as they pissed off the chinese etc. etc. So a Junta would be starting from a much lower point even than the Government is now.

Add to this it is illigitimate judicial coup, will attract sanctions and scare off business with the Red shirts protesting and it's a recipie for disaster.

Which explains why the Army have cold feet and even some of the court cases have gone PT way!!

Some people seem to have a different outlook on what is on the horizen for Thailand when/if the present bunch of crooks are kicked out/resign or whatever. I have never been one to perscribe to the theory, its better to continue following a proven inhouse, incompentent, than to bring new blood onto the scene.

That is why most governments have a avenue to rid themselves of the situation that Thailand finds itself in at present. The notion/suggestion that its could get worse (the bogeyman will get you) sometimes works with children. But then they do not decide who will govern.

Your "new blood" is fascism which is the old and disproved blood, disproved in war and peace yet this what Abhisit is completely of, for, about.

Fascism is inherently and morally corrupt and bankrupt.

Fascists and fascism are entirely predictable, as we well know from history.

"Fascist ideology is vague and protean. This is a source of endless frustration to those who expect to find a coherent definition of fascism in the writings of party or movement “philosophers.” But it reflects nothing more than fascism’s pragmatic approach to attaining its goals and its unwillingness to be bound (like its predecessors) to failed dogmas." (Emphasis added.)

http://www.anesi.com/Fascism-TheUltimateDefinition.htm

"In all cases where fascism was successful, its rise was preceded by a period of political polarization and parliamentary deadlock. In Italy, forming a stable parliamentary majority had proved impossible since 1919, and making Mussolini Prime Minister in October 1922 offered a convenient way to break the deadlock. In Germany, it had been impossible to form a parliamentary majority from March 1930 until Hitler’s appointment as chancellor in 1933."

http://www.anesi.com/Fascism-TheUltimateDefinition.htm

I very much doubt Thailand will have to wait 3 or 4 more years for Prime Minister/Chancellor Abhisit.

[MrJohnson]

Yingluck is one of the most selfish persons I have ever known. She and her brother do not give a crap about anything but themselves. They will sacrifice anything to stay in power. That by itself is enough to get them out of office. You might not agree with Suthep's methods, but more and more, I simply don't care how it is done, she and her dog, Chalerm need to be jettisoned to Mars.

I am sick and tired of these wanke_rS turning one of the most beautiful countries into a shithole. If there was a leader who was slightly incompetent, but had character, I'd vote him or her into office in a heartbeat.

Frankly, we do need a mini revolution. We need to get that sour puss, moronic woman out of office. She add NO VALUE whatsoever and she really destroying the Nirvana called Thailand.... what a disgraceful thing to write on your tombstone: "Here lieth Yingluck Shinawatra, the horrible leader who destroyed people's lives, created hate and destruction and sent Thailand back to the Stone Age.....

Sad, really....

Nirvana? Are we talking about the same place.?

Where are you from? Like it here?

I am from the West and yes I like it here, but it is hardly Nirvana or certainly not my definition of it.

[fab4]

Negative speculation by the self-indulgent OP.

The OP uses the literary and rhetorical device of the "Parade of Horribles" which allows any writer to stoop to an irresponsible and licentious recklessness by conjuring up from what otherwise are facts, such as dates and a constitution, his own preferred and warped political and constitutional scenario.

There are not only the two constitutional possibilities the OP falsely presents. Central to the matter of forming the next government are the by-elections this month. And there is the election coming next month of the half of the senate that are directly accountable to the electorate, and appointing the other half that are not, a process which this time will get an unprecedented, rigorous scrutiny from an attentive public.

Will Ultraman Suthep allow the Senate elections to proceed? The OP apparently doesn't bother to ask. Will Suthep still be on the loose and on the prowl by the time Senate elections occur next month? The OP doesn't want to think about that.

The OP's Parade of Horribles is indeed the rhetorical device in which the speaker hyperbolically catalogues the potential unpleasant outcomes of a course of events. Thus using the constitution, the OP tries to manipulate a real document into his own Parade of Desirables, which makes it easy to suspect the OP would love little more than to see democracy fail in Thailand.

In short, the OP bombs out in his rank hackings at the keyboard as he laughably looks into his crystal ball to All Fool's Day, which is his day indeed.

what a crock of <deleted>

Another reasoned analysis with full explanation of your counter argument...................

[Siripon]

Sorry Pipkins, Suthep got far more votes than Yingluck.

He told people not to vote and 53%of the electorate didn't.

That's about 23 million people!

[jayboy]

Sorry Pipkins, Suthep got far more votes than Yingluck.

He told people not to vote and 53%of the electorate didn't.

That's about 23 million people!

I would be ashamed to come up with a foolish statement like this.For an honest and intelligent analysis Chis Baker has done a first class summary.Google it.

On the broader front the New York Times has an interesting article including reference to a damning indictment of the Suthep mob by Virabongsa Ramangkura, and an interesting take on the army/coup option.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/08/world/asia/petition-to-nullify-thai-election-is-rejected-in-setback-for-opposition.html?ref=world&_r=0

[fish fingers]

I don't get this anti 'middle class/elitist' Suthep nuthuggers stuff. The average wage for a middle class professional worker ( for example a qualified architect) is around 30-40,000 baht a month. Not large by western standards altho a good wage in Thailand .. but they work hard for it and deserve it. Is it jealousy?

BTW Please don't get them mixed up with the Hi-So chinese Thonglor set (they are mostly Thaksin supporters, he invented them)

[fab4]

I don't get this anti 'middle class/elitist' Suthep nuthuggers stuff. The average wage for a middle class professional worker ( for example a qualified architect) is around 30-40,000 baht a month. Not large by western standards altho a good wage in Thailand .. but they work hard for it and deserve it. Is it jealousy?

BTW Please don't get them mixed up with the Hi-So chinese Thonglor set (they are mostly Thaksin supporters, he invented them)

Has it escaped your notice that a lot of people earn 9000 baht or less a month (30 days working on minimum wage) and they work bloody hard for it too? Or do poorly paid people not work as hard as an "architect"?

[rubl]

I don't get this anti 'middle class/elitist' Suthep nuthuggers stuff. The average wage for a middle class professional worker ( for example a qualified architect) is around 30-40,000 baht a month. Not large by western standards altho a good wage in Thailand .. but they work hard for it and deserve it. Is it jealousy?

BTW Please don't get them mixed up with the Hi-So chinese Thonglor set (they are mostly Thaksin supporters, he invented them)

Has it escaped your notice that a lot of people earn 9000 baht or less a month (30 days working on minimum wage) and they work bloody hard for it too? Or do poorly paid people not work as hard as an "architect"?

Has it escaped you that still lots of really poor people work even harder and get less. Poor rice farmers for instance

[Siripon]

Sorry my sense of humour passed you by Jayboy.

[jayboy]

Sorry my sense of humour passed you by Jayboy.

It did! We don't usually agree but I'm aware you have a good brain - so I was too quickly out of the trap.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[robblok]

The sad truth about Thailand is that democracy can be obstructed to the point that it is meaningless exercise, Then 'law abiding' citizens, like those who write editorials for the Nation, can point to the Constitution to say this is the 'way things should be'. The 'rule of law' was abandoned when the elections were obstructed. What follows will be a meaningless exercise in interpreting a Constitution that has become a document that isn't worth the paper on which it is written.

It was meaningless long before that when a corrupt government decided to remove the checks and balances and not face accountability on the rice scam.

If they had the two trillion baht loan they would have paid the rice farmers with it even though it was not for that.

Corrupt.. incompetent.. thinking that because they were voted in it was ok.

[Emptyset]

The sad truth about Thailand is that democracy can be obstructed to the point that it is meaningless exercise, Then 'law abiding' citizens, like those who write editorials for the Nation, can point to the Constitution to say this is the 'way things should be'. The 'rule of law' was abandoned when the elections were obstructed. What follows will be a meaningless exercise in interpreting a Constitution that has become a document that isn't worth the paper on which it is written.

It was meaningless long before that when a corrupt government decided to remove the checks and balances and not face accountability on the rice scam.

If they had the two trillion baht loan they would have paid the rice farmers with it even though it was not for that.

Corrupt.. incompetent.. thinking that because they were voted in it was ok.

When did they remove the checks and balances? They are facing accountability aren't they? Isn't that what the investigations are about? Isn't that one of the 'ticking time bombs'?

[Melyn]

The sad truth about Thailand is that democracy can be obstructed to the point that it is meaningless exercise, Then 'law abiding' citizens, like those who write editorials for the Nation, can point to the Constitution to say this is the 'way things should be'. The 'rule of law' was abandoned when the elections were obstructed. What follows will be a meaningless exercise in interpreting a Constitution that has become a document that isn't worth the paper on which it is written.

It was meaningless long before that when a corrupt government decided to remove the checks and balances and not face accountability on the rice scam.

If they had the two trillion baht loan they would have paid the rice farmers with it even though it was not for that.

Corrupt.. incompetent.. thinking that because they were voted in it was ok.

When did they remove the checks and balances? They are facing accountability aren't they? Isn't that what the investigations are about? Isn't that one of the 'ticking time bombs'?

And then we shall hear the sound of "judicial coup" in every thread and whilst it will make a refreshing change from "fascist thugs" it will be just as misplaced.

Will that be your chorus too?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[pookiki]

The sad truth about Thailand is that democracy can be obstructed to the point that it is meaningless exercise, Then 'law abiding' citizens, like those who write editorials for the Nation, can point to the Constitution to say this is the 'way things should be'. The 'rule of law' was abandoned when the elections were obstructed. What follows will be a meaningless exercise in interpreting a Constitution that has become a document that isn't worth the paper on which it is written.

It was meaningless long before that when a corrupt government decided to remove the checks and balances and not face accountability on the rice scam.

If they had the two trillion baht loan they would have paid the rice farmers with it even though it was not for that.

Corrupt.. incompetent.. thinking that because they were voted in it was ok.

Dissolving Parliament is an ultimate check and balance. Yet, the Democrats and the PDRC decided that dissolution wasn't enough. There had to be a concerted effort to boycott and block the election process - the true underpinning of democracy. Since when did democracy mean that everyone agrees with what the government does? If you have faith in the 'system' then it should hold those accountable for illegal acts - to include the PTP, the PDRC and the Democratic party -- right? Then we can wait for everyone to serve their jail sentences to convene Parliament.

[heybruce]

Yay, another democratically elected government toppled!

Now the traditional elite can appoint a government, just the way things should be.

Unfortunately the redshirts, being the sore losers that they are, will undoubtedly start protesting and causing a ruckus in the streets until they get a new election, and then Thailand will have to suffer under another elected government.

But don't despair, Abhisit, Suthep, and others stand ready to defend this country from democracy whenever it rears its ugly head.

[marstons]

So we have a date now, April 1st!

Keep that private jet ready to fly, Poo. Come April Fool's Day, you'll be the biggest fool with a one way flight to sandy Dubai!

Oh wait, maybe not the biggest fool since Chalerm is there.

And a multi millionairess, does anybody thinks she is that concerned. Hardly a fool and convicted of nothing. Another millionaire fool Charlerm, Living alongside the worlds rich and famous. Fools give me a break.

[fish fingers]

I don't get this anti 'middle class/elitist' Suthep nuthuggers stuff. The average wage for a middle class professional worker ( for example a qualified architect) is around 30-40,000 baht a month. Not large by western standards altho a good wage in Thailand .. but they work hard for it and deserve it. Is it jealousy?

BTW Please don't get them mixed up with the Hi-So chinese Thonglor set (they are mostly Thaksin supporters, he invented them)

Has it escaped your notice that a lot of people earn 9000 baht or less a month (30 days working on minimum wage) and they work bloody hard for it too? Or do poorly paid people not work as hard as an "architect"?

Has it escaped you that still lots of really poor people work even harder and get less. Poor rice farmers for instance

Has it escaped you that very few rice farmers have been paid ?

And where have peoples taxes gone? To pay the crazy subsidies? And where are the missing billions ?

[tilac2]

So having let that idiotic thug Suthep have his day in the sun the Ruling Elite will now wheel on the heavy guns of their constitution and their judiciary.

The answer to The Nations -obviously unbiased reporter - is that we need another election which the Dems wont boycott and the mob wont disrupt. Then the people can vote freely, then they can vote for reform minded parties if they so wish.

I'm not exactly sure what "ruling elite wheel on the heavy guns of their constitution and their judiciary" means. It's sounds like overdone and meandering political rhetoric to me, but the 'ruling elite' may be better for the country in the long run than to be deceived so terribly by Thaksin and Yingluck, who declared themselves to be the champions of the poor Isaan rice farmer. In the end the "champions' of the poor Isaan rice farmer jeopardized Thailand's global rice market position and generally screwed the rice farmers over. Thaksin and Yingkluck drained the country's coffers, and we can only imagine how much of that money was stuffed directly in their and their cronies off-shore bank accounts.

After this complete disaster of a government, it has become quite clear that nobody is really looking out for the downtrodden Isaan rice farmer, so perhaps knowing that the "Bangkok elite" are running the show, and the farmers need to rely on their own smarts and ability to get a fair shake for their product is better than being lulled into a false sense of security, being promised the moon and the stars, but then actually getting the carpet pulled out from under their feet while being 'bent over' is better. I don't see how this Shinawatra government can sincerely be defended on any level now.

Here is how to defend "this Shinawatra government". And by the way, it is the same way that one would defend many other governments around the world:

They were elected.

[Thaddeus]

The sad truth about Thailand is that democracy can be obstructed to the point that it is meaningless exercise, Then 'law abiding' citizens, like those who write editorials for the Nation, can point to the Constitution to say this is the 'way things should be'. The 'rule of law' was abandoned when the elections were obstructed. What follows will be a meaningless exercise in interpreting a Constitution that has become a document that isn't worth the paper on which it is written.

It was meaningless long before that when a corrupt government decided to remove the checks and balances and not face accountability on the rice scam.

If they had the two trillion baht loan they would have paid the rice farmers with it even though it was not for that.

Corrupt.. incompetent.. thinking that because they were voted in it was ok.

When did they remove the checks and balances? They are facing accountability aren't they? Isn't that what the investigations are about? Isn't that one of the 'ticking time bombs'?

They tried to remove the checks and balances, since they came to power they have done very little else apart from trying to divert attention.

Every time a bit of bad news surfaces, one of them yells "look, over there" and then concocts a barely credible story about why people should look over there.

Inept, incompetent and hopefully infertile, in all meanings of those three words.

[fish fingers]

Mugabe was elected too.

[tilac2]

'The ruling Pheu Thai Party is believed to have mustered about 8 million votes ...' Didn't some optimistic supporter recently predict, on TV, upwards of 20m?

Which is 8 million more than Suthep got.

And thats the point.

Those 8 million turn up in Bangkok along with the disenfranchised and it dwarfs Sutheps peoples march which today was about 400 again.

And, by the way, the relatively low turnout for the election was very predictable based on the Democrat Party boycott, the blocking of polling stations, and various social pressures.

See the letter from Tim Meisburger of the Asia Foundation in today's Nation.

[tilac2]

Mugabe was elected too.

As was Ian Smith before him.

Smith was elected using a voting system that some of the amarta would probably prefer for Thailand - a property qualification and an education qualification - so if you were too poor or uneducated, you couldn't vote. (We could also mention pre Mandela South Africa as a comparison.)

Obviously Mugabe has been a disaster for both black and white people in Zimbabwe, but would white paternalistic rule by Ian Smith have been better in the long run? All we know for sure is that democracy, on balance, is better than dictatorship, as it results in greater freedom and prosperity.

Which makes it all the more inexplicable and pathetic that westerners on this forum, who have presumably come from countries that believe in "one man one vote", continue to support the indefensible tactics of the insurrectionist Suthep and his fellow travellers in the misnamed "Democrat Party".

Edited February 8, 2014 by tilac2

[heybruce]

Mugabe was elected too.

Leaving aside the fact that Mugabe has been using increasingly undemocratic strong-arm methods to win his elections, what is your point? "Mugabe was elected" could be used to reject the outcome of any democratic election.

A number of articles in the February 7 issue of "The Economist" point out that new democracies don't become established democracies unless the losing parties accept the fact that they lost. The refusal of the traditional elite and their minions to accept election results is why democracy is struggling to get off the ground here.

If you're in Thailand you'll have to read this particular issue on-line (http://www.economist.com/). You're allowed to read a few articles without subscribing. You can probably deduce why it was not distributed in Thailand.

[fish fingers]

Tell that to Tsvangirai.

[heybruce]

The sad truth about Thailand is that democracy can be obstructed to the point that it is meaningless exercise, Then 'law abiding' citizens, like those who write editorials for the Nation, can point to the Constitution to say this is the 'way things should be'. The 'rule of law' was abandoned when the elections were obstructed. What follows will be a meaningless exercise in interpreting a Constitution that has become a document that isn't worth the paper on which it is written.

It was meaningless long before that when a corrupt government decided to remove the checks and balances and not face accountability on the rice scam.

If they had the two trillion baht loan they would have paid the rice farmers with it even though it was not for that.

Corrupt.. incompetent.. thinking that because they were voted in it was ok.

When did they remove the checks and balances? They are facing accountability aren't they? Isn't that what the investigations are about? Isn't that one of the 'ticking time bombs'?

They tried to remove the checks and balances, since they came to power they have done very little else apart from trying to divert attention.

Every time a bit of bad news surfaces, one of them yells "look, over there" and then concocts a barely credible story about why people should look over there.

Inept, incompetent and hopefully infertile, in all meanings of those three words.

Under the preceding constitution the Senate was fully elected. Under the current 2007 constitution, written by a military junta and approved in an "approve this or live under military rule" vote, almost half the Senate is appointed. The current government has been trying to change that. Where you see attempts to remove checks and balances others see reasonable attempts to restore democracy.

Of course it is much easier to critique the performance of the current government than that of yellowshirt governments simply because the yellowshirts have been unable to win an election (though they're pretty adept at coming out the temporary winner after a coup). Instead of working to undermine the elected government, why doesn't the opposition focus on making themselves more electable?