Thai editorial: Accumulating legal cases compound political impasse

[webfact]

EDITORIAL
Accumulating legal cases compound political impasse
The Nation

Thailand needs the warring sides to come together but every legal case deepens the rift

BANGKOK: -- Everyone knows that Thailand is politically cursed. Just how badly may be unfathomable, though. When personal conflicts create a major impasse, or when personality clashes destroy key foundations, it's extremely hard to move forward. The country's poor political climate has been compounded by legal cases which are accumulating left, right and centre.

The battle of ideologies in this case is just a charade. It is a power play between two powerful sides, and one of them may be worse or trickier than the other.

It's doubtful the warmongers will stick to what they proclaim to stand for when there is little left to gain, but hatred between divided Thais will remain for a very long time.

Another casualty of the war is the country's already lacklustre fight against corruption, which has become too politicised to really get off the ground.

The accumulation of legal cases is one more key concern. It and the political showdown are feeding off each other.

The longer the crisis drags on, the more cases come into existence and the harder it will be rebuild national harmony. If national reconciliation is still possible, that is.

Legal cases include those relating to Thaksin; the death of red shirts during the occupation and clear-out of Ratchaprasong; the Central World fire; cases against Abhisit Vejjajiva, Suthep Thaugsuban and the red shirt leaders; the Constitutional Court's rulings against charter changes; and the death of Ramkhamhaeng University students.

Others include the murder of anti-government leader Suthin Taratin; the police officer who allegedly fired at protesters; the rice-pledging scheme; and the legal trouble faced by parliamentary backers of the amnesty bill. The list goes on and on.

With so many cases, how can Thailand find peace?

The controversial amnesty bill sought to wipe them all out, but critics say that would have also meant "whitewashing" some corrupt politicians.

Would we have forgiven and forgotten for peace's sake, or would we have given corruption a big boost? We are stuck. The dilemma is daunting.

Worse still, attempts to "reset" or "restart" or "restore" have had the opposite effect. The national divide is running so deep nothing can ever be deemed fair, just or neutral anymore.

We might still be able to straighten the messed-up ball of string bit by bit, but that would require enormous patience, open mindedness and understanding. Many will say that's too much to ask.

More legal cases are to come. The government, before and after it assumed "caretaker" status, threw legal charges against Suthep and his key assistants.

The anti-government camp does not recognise the charges, and has countered by formulating charges of its own against various government figures. We have lost count and nobody seems to care now who is charged with what.

Perhaps we should care a little. Every legal case makes the national rift grow deeper.

Every time the National Anti-Corruption Commission or the Constitutional Court or the Criminal Court or the Administrative Court is set to issue a ruling, the nation almost goes up in flames.

Every ruling makes the mutual hatred grow. Every ruling makes reconciliation a little harder.

The election is certainly spawning new court petitions or lawsuits. The curse that has been wreaking havoc can be even more active.

The only way to be optimistic about all this is to believe that meaningful things can really rise out of debris. It's a major torture, though, not knowing when the debris will stop expanding.


-- The Nation 2014-02-10

[EricBerg]

The many legal cases will contribute to the start of rooting out corruption. My guess is that many of the shinamafia leaders will be proven guilty of corruption and malpractice. Assets will be taken and people will actually do time in prison. It will be the first time that many of a former corrupt leadership will pay for their crimes. And man do they deserve what's coming to them.

[ShannonT]

The controversial amnesty bill sought to wipe them all out, but critics say that would have also meant "whitewashing" some corrupt politicians.

Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea after all.

The amnesty would have included Thaksin, yes ...but also Sondhi Limthongkul, the founder of the yellow shirts and other yellow shirt leaders who are currently on trial, as well as Abhisit and Suthep who are currently facing murder charges.

Thaksin isn't the only "bad guy" in the game. Maybe starting fresh would have been a better way than pushing Thailand further and further towards a civil war.

The many legal cases will contribute to the start of rooting out corruption.

I seriously doubt that. More legal cases just means more politicians paying money to court officials and people in higher places to prevent them from being convicted. Does the Red Bull heir case ring a bell? He killed a policeman with his Ferrari and dragged him all the way down Sukhumvit. His court case got thrown out because he was unable to attend the hearing due to being on holiday in Singapore. Yeah right, any other normal person did the same thing and they wouldn't even get bail.

If you think corruption will end in Thailand when the Shinawatras are gone, you are blind.

Edited February 9, 2014 by ShannonT

[Thai at Heart]

Everyone knows that Thailand is politically cursed.

Who knows that. Thailand is endemically corrupt, that we know.

But cursed politically? That is a cop out. If your politicians weren't so corrupt and lacking principals none of this would have happened.

[DrDweeb]

If you think corruption will end in Thailand when the Shinawatras are gone, you are blind.

The Shin corruption will be gone. That will be a start, and a start is better than not.

[Fookhaht]

More and more, one is starting to hear discussion about partition of the country as the only final solution.

"The Fight Tearing the Country in Two" over at the Bangkok Post makes for an interesting read.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Fookhaht

[Yunla]

Death by a thousand writs.

[Thai at Heart]

More and more, one is starting to hear discussion about partition of the country as the only final solution.

"The Fight Tearing the Country in Two" over at the Bangkok Post makes for an interesting read.

Well, would anyone lose too much sleep if bangkok was left only for Bangkokians and they had to.fend for themselves.

Bangkok isn't as rich as anyone thinks. Half the up.country productivity is banked in bangkok.

[kimamey]

The many legal cases will contribute to the start of rooting out corruption. My guess is that many of the shinamafia leaders will be proven guilty of corruption and malpractice. Assets will be taken and people will actually do time in prison. It will be the first time that many of a former corrupt leadership will pay for their crimes. And man do they deserve what's coming to them.

It needs to be less one sided than that.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[ShannonT]

If you think corruption will end in Thailand when the Shinawatras are gone, you are blind.

The Shin corruption will be gone. That will be a start, and a start is better than not.

And you think that getting rid of Shinawatra corruption and replacing it with Abhisit and Suthep corruption will bring peace to the country? If anything, it will make it worse.

[englishoak]

Maybe thats the next big thing, an avalanche of cases "shut down the Thai judicial system" like there ever was a proper one.

[Thai at Heart]

If you think corruption will end in Thailand when the Shinawatras are gone, you are blind.

The Shin corruption will be gone. That will be a start, and a start is better than not.

Please can I borrow those rosy tints of yours.

Such a simple solution . once that is done, can we move onto Ferrari red bull guy. So simple to solve this corruption business.

Genius pure genius. Get rid.of thaksin and thailand becomes Norway with warm.weather. brilliant.

[tezzainoz]

More and more, one is starting to hear discussion about partition of the country as the only final solution.

"The Fight Tearing the Country in Two" over at the Bangkok Post makes for an interesting read.

Well, would anyone lose too much sleep if bangkok was left only for Bangkokians and they had to.fend for themselves.

Bangkok isn't as rich as anyone thinks. Half the up.country productivity is banked in bangkok.

The article I thought was great writing and well put

but with in minutes we have you starting the fighting all over again with your comments

Thailand needs to be turned inside out, and yes this will not be easy

But they have to start somewhere

and my opinion is, if this protest starts the ball rolling and the corrupt start to face the courts, then it was all worth while

No bais, both sides must pay the Ferryman

[Thai at Heart]

More and more, one is starting to hear discussion about partition of the country as the only final solution.

"The Fight Tearing the Country in Two" over at the Bangkok Post makes for an interesting read.

Well, would anyone lose too much sleep if bangkok was left only for Bangkokians and they had to.fend for themselves.

Bangkok isn't as rich as anyone thinks. Half the up.country productivity is banked in bangkok.

The article I thought was great writing and well put

but with in minutes we have you starting the fighting all over again with your comments

Thailand needs to be turned inside out, and yes this will not be easy

But they have to start somewhere

and my opinion is, if this protest starts the ball rolling and the corrupt start to face the courts, then it was all worth while

No bais, both sides must pay the Ferryman

And do you genuinely believe that these people will carry out the type of deep rooted reform this country needs?

The legal system, the army, the civil service, the education and last but biggest, the police.

Or do you think they might just get rid of thaksin and try to go back to circa 1995? Because it was all.so good back then.

Thaksin is a dishonest bloke. Why would you let a dishonest bloke like Suthep sort it out. I for one would prefer Chuwit.

Yes thailand needs reform. Good luck waiting for Suthep to deliver it. The solution is not going to be found in anything that can be achieved by this current corrupt generation of politicians.

There are no politicians with principles or vision in thailand today. They are all tainted.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[cloudhopper]

The legal system here is utterly dysfunctional. Has anyone even been charged over shutting down the international airport some years ago?

[ChrisY1]

The many legal cases will contribute to the start of rooting out corruption. My guess is that many of the shinamafia leaders will be proven guilty of corruption and malpractice. Assets will be taken and people will actually do time in prison. It will be the first time that many of a former corrupt leadership will pay for their crimes. And man do they deserve what's coming to them.

I wouldn't hold by breath on that happening.....these people will have the ability to hold off any legal cases against them for years....decades even..!

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Court cases are piling up because the Thai judicial system is archaic and badly in need of a major overhaul. The system has no predictability. There are almost no reported decisions, and there is no national reporter system (which would compile the reported decisions of the Supreme, Appellate, and Constitutional Courts). The legal codes are meager, and for the most part outdated. Hence, the lawyers and the judges have to start from scratch on every case. If there were reported decisions, both the judges and lawyers would have a better understanding of the issues and what the court case's result might be. Frankly, most of the judges base their decisions on their gut or political feelings, because there is no body of stare decisis (precedent).

Edited February 10, 2014 by zaphodbeeblebrox

[noitom]

The story should read politically "and legally" cursed. Thais don't follow law and order anyway. It's a privileged buy out system based on rank. The more cases that they have, the more deep rooted the corruption problem as they "work their way" off the desks of the court. Thai legal cases are basically a stall, diversion or a shakedown. There is never a case based on the goal of public benefit such as a class action against tobacco manufacturers or auto manufacturers in order to affect public benefit.

[noitom]

Everyone knows that Thailand is politically cursed.

Who knows that. Thailand is endemically corrupt, that we know.

But cursed politically? That is a cop out. If your politicians weren't so corrupt and lacking principals none of this would have happened.

Ethics. No sense of ethics or watchdog for ethics.

[thesetat2013]

The many legal cases will contribute to the start of rooting out corruption. My guess is that many of the shinamafia leaders will be proven guilty of corruption and malpractice. Assets will be taken and people will actually do time in prison. It will be the first time that many of a former corrupt leadership will pay for their crimes. And man do they deserve what's coming to them.

I think you are dreaming? The list of convicted politicians and officials is enormous yet not a single one has seen the inside of a prison. Even when they seized Thaksins fortune it was eventually discreetly given back to him.

Sure charges will be made and convictions given but the only ones to feel the brunt of this will be the small guy

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[sweatalot]

If you think corruption will end in Thailand when the Shinawatras are gone, you are blind.

The Shin corruption will be gone. That will be a start, and a start is better than not.

And you think that getting rid of Shinawatra corruption and replacing it with Abhisit and Suthep corruption will bring peace to the country? If anything, it will make it worse.

how can you be so sure that Abhisit and Suthep would replace the S. corruption?

[winstonc]

everyone hear agrees its a basket case country...their more childish than us posters and thats saying something...

[DrDweeb]

If you think corruption will end in Thailand when the Shinawatras are gone, you are blind.

The Shin corruption will be gone. That will be a start, and a start is better than not.

Please can I borrow those rosy tints of yours.

Such a simple solution . once that is done, can we move onto Ferrari red bull guy. So simple to solve this corruption business.

Genius pure genius. Get rid.of thaksin and thailand becomes Norway with warm.weather. brilliant.

You obviously cannot read, you need regular glasses apparently.

It is not in any way "rose tinted" to write what I posted.

The departure of the Shins would indeed end their regin of corruption, it is a logical consequence. They would surely be replaced by one of the hoards ready to follow in his footsteps. The second statement does not negate the first.

Putting Al Capone in gaol did not end crime, but it put a severe dent in the crime business. Afte Big Al, more followed. In a society where "rule of law" is espoused, that is how you do it, one villian at a time. In the end (or so theory goes), the crime business becomes unpalateble due to the risks and the number of villians declines.

I wonder what the preventive effects of actually putting a few Thai "white collar" villians in the Bangkok Hilton would have?

(If you were replying to the previous poster, learn to quote)

[Emster23]

"More legal cases are to come. The government, before and after it assumed "caretaker" status, threw legal charges against Suthep and his key assistants."

hmmm they started out protesting amnesty bill, right? Is this suggesting there should be amnesty for the lawbreakers protesting amnesty? They knew full well they were breaking the law. But will not accept the consequences. I suggest reading "Civil Disobedience" by HD Thoreau. Plenty of my generation went to prison rather than serve in the military during Vietnam war. If anything they should flood the police stations en mass and demand to be arrested.

[WhizBang]

The controversial amnesty bill sought to wipe them all out, but critics say that would have also meant "whitewashing" some corrupt politicians.

Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea after all.

The amnesty would have included Thaksin, yes ...but also Sondhi Limthongkul, the founder of the yellow shirts and other yellow shirt leaders who are currently on trial, as well as Abhisit and Suthep who are currently facing murder charges.

Thaksin isn't the only "bad guy" in the game. Maybe starting fresh would have been a better way than pushing Thailand further and further towards a civil war.

The many legal cases will contribute to the start of rooting out corruption.

I seriously doubt that. More legal cases just means more politicians paying money to court officials and people in higher places to prevent them from being convicted. Does the Red Bull heir case ring a bell? He killed a policeman with his Ferrari and dragged him all the way down Sukhumvit. His court case got thrown out because he was unable to attend the hearing due to being on holiday in Singapore. Yeah right, any other normal person did the same thing and they wouldn't even get bail.

If you think corruption will end in Thailand when the Shinawatras are gone, you are blind.

So you prefer to let the crooks go free rather than actually FIX the problem?

[mightyatom]

The controversial amnesty bill sought to wipe them all out, but critics say that would have also meant "whitewashing" some corrupt politicians.

Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea after all.

The amnesty would have included Thaksin, yes ...but also Sondhi Limthongkul, the founder of the yellow shirts and other yellow shirt leaders who are currently on trial, as well as Abhisit and Suthep who are currently facing murder charges.

Thaksin isn't the only "bad guy" in the game. Maybe starting fresh would have been a better way than pushing Thailand further and further towards a civil war.

The many legal cases will contribute to the start of rooting out corruption.

I seriously doubt that. More legal cases just means more politicians paying money to court officials and people in higher places to prevent them from being convicted. Does the Red Bull heir case ring a bell? He killed a policeman with his Ferrari and dragged him all the way down Sukhumvit. His court case got thrown out because he was unable to attend the hearing due to being on holiday in Singapore. Yeah right, any other normal person did the same thing and they wouldn't even get bail.

If you think corruption will end in Thailand when the Shinawatras are gone, you are blind.

If you think corruption will end in Thailand when the Shinawatras are gone, you are blind.

Really?

So let's say after all this mess has been sorted out and we are seeing many high level politicians rotting in prison with all their assets gone. I have a feeling that corruption will become very risky indeed with a hell of a lot to lose.

Especially if the prison sentences are around 20 years apiece.

More responsibility abuse, the higher the sentence making politicians and judges and police the highest risk areas.

It only takes a department of the NACC to be set up to observe EVERY court decision that is dubious and act on a 'fast track' basis to weed it out.

After reforms, judges will be watched and so will politicians and police, and shit rolls downhill.... It will adopt an attitude of 'If I can't do it, then neither can you'.

I prefer to be an optimist. I am not the sort of person who constantly views everything in Thailand with a pessimistic view. I think that is grossly unfair.

We optimists can see that their has been massive change in the past few years with people power and the way they will no longer be prepared to suffer bent politics.

[Scamper]

Indeed, charges and countercharges no longer hold any weight, because - in between the loud proclamation of their start and their withering conclusion - they are generally thrown out. Or simply lose steam. Or give way to other seemingly more imposing or current charges. The legal system is more a series of threats than consequences, of who shouts the loudest, or who can browbeat more convincingly, or who is rich enough to avoid jail, and who is not. And when that becomes the reality of the execution of the law, it is the law that instead gets executed.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Scamper

[bigbamboo]

The controversial amnesty bill sought to wipe them all out, but critics say that would have also meant "whitewashing" some corrupt politicians.

Maybe it wasn't such a bad idea after all.

The amnesty would have included Thaksin, yes ...but also Sondhi Limthongkul, the founder of the yellow shirts and other yellow shirt leaders who are currently on trial, as well as Abhisit and Suthep who are currently facing murder charges.

Thaksin isn't the only "bad guy" in the game. Maybe starting fresh would have been a better way than pushing Thailand further and further towards a civil war.

The many legal cases will contribute to the start of rooting out corruption.

I seriously doubt that. More legal cases just means more politicians paying money to court officials and people in higher places to prevent them from being convicted. Does the Red Bull heir case ring a bell? He killed a policeman with his Ferrari and dragged him all the way down Sukhumvit. His court case got thrown out because he was unable to attend the hearing due to being on holiday in Singapore. Yeah right, any other normal person did the same thing and they wouldn't even get bail.

If you think corruption will end in Thailand when the Shinawatras are gone, you are blind.

If you think corruption will end in Thailand when the Shinawatras are gone, you are blind.

Really?

So let's say after all this mess has been sorted out and we are seeing many high level politicians rotting in prison with all their assets gone. I have a feeling that corruption will become very risky indeed with a hell of a lot to lose.

Especially if the prison sentences are around 20 years apiece.

More responsibility abuse, the higher the sentence making politicians and judges and police the highest risk areas.

It only takes a department of the NACC to be set up to observe EVERY court decision that is dubious and act on a 'fast track' basis to weed it out.

After reforms, judges will be watched and so will politicians and police, and shit rolls downhill.... It will adopt an attitude of 'If I can't do it, then neither can you'.

I prefer to be an optimist. I am not the sort of person who constantly views everything in Thailand with a pessimistic view. I think that is grossly unfair.

We optimists can see that their has been massive change in the past few years with people power and the way they will no longer be prepared to suffer bent politics.

Corruption in Thailand won't end if and when the Shinawats leave the scene. There will always be corruption here just as there is in every country.... just not nearly as much.

[wolfmanjack]

More and more, one is starting to hear discussion about partition of the country as the only final solution.

"The Fight Tearing the Country in Two" over at the Bangkok Post makes for an interesting read.

Well, would anyone lose too much sleep if bangkok was left only for Bangkokians and they had to.fend for themselves.

Bangkok isn't as rich as anyone thinks. Half the up.country productivity is banked in bangkok.

The article I thought was great writing and well put

but with in minutes we have you starting the fighting all over again with your comments

Thailand needs to be turned inside out, and yes this will not be easy

But they have to start somewhere

and my opinion is, if this protest starts the ball rolling and the corrupt start to face the courts, then it was all worth while

No bais, both sides must pay the Ferryman

And do you genuinely believe that these people will carry out the type of deep rooted reform this country needs?

The legal system, the army, the civil service, the education and last but biggest, the police.

Or do you think they might just get rid of thaksin and try to go back to circa 1995? Because it was all.so good back then.

Thaksin is a dishonest bloke. Why would you let a dishonest bloke like Suthep sort it out. I for one would prefer Chuwit.

Yes thailand needs reform. Good luck waiting for Suthep to deliver it. The solution is not going to be found in anything that can be achieved by this current corrupt generation of politicians.

There are no politicians with principles or vision in thailand today. They are all tainted.

Suthep joined the protest after it was already going and I don't think there is anything stopping Chuwit from joining also.

I personally do not care if peter pan and the tinker bell fairies are in charge of the reform as long as the reform gets done in the correct way.

The chair person should not even get a vote in the reform and any reforms implemented should pass by a 2/3rds vote. The committee they are talking about is supposed to be of 500 people committee or something like isn't it? Then go to a vote of the country? I get the impression most of you that are so worried about suthep think Suthep is going to be writing all the reforms and they will be implemented with no input from anyone else.

I was in support of the protesters back when the were wearing the v for vendetta masks before suthep joined. just because he joined did not make me against them even though i do not like suthep and some of his crazy ideas but he is helping get this protest the attention it needs.

[wolfmanjack]

The many legal cases will contribute to the start of rooting out corruption. My guess is that many of the shinamafia leaders will be proven guilty of corruption and malpractice. Assets will be taken and people will actually do time in prison. It will be the first time that many of a former corrupt leadership will pay for their crimes. And man do they deserve what's coming to them.

I think you are dreaming? The list of convicted politicians and officials is enormous yet not a single one has seen the inside of a prison. Even when they seized Thaksins fortune it was eventually discreetly given back to him.

Sure charges will be made and convictions given but the only ones to feel the brunt of this will be the small guy

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I don' think most of the people being convicted have a sister for pm like thaksin had when our money was discreetly (until thaksin admitted it) given back to him.