South Australian gay couple travel to Thailand for birth of their surrogate twins

[Lite Beer]

South Australian gay couple travel to Thailand for birth of their surrogate twins
BRAD CROUCH IN BANGKOK SUNDAY MAIL


Matt, left, holds baby Estelle with partner Mark holding baby Tate, in Bangkok. Picture: Dean Martin Source: Supplied

BANGKOK: -- CUDDLED in the arms of doting parents Mark and Matt, newborns Tate and Estelle are the contented faces of a unique Australian modern family.

Conceived from eggs harvested from a single donor woman, separately fertilised by the gay dads, implanted into two surrogate women in Thailand, the bubs were born an hour apart in a Bangkok hospital.

On Monday the proud parents Mark and Matt are expected to receive the miracle babies' Australian citizenship and are preparing to bring them home to Adelaide.

The dual boy-girl surrogacy delivered at virtually the same time by caesarean section to gay parents is believed to be an Australian first.

For Mark, 29, a university lecturer, and Matt, 29, a primary school teacher, who have been partners for more than a decade, the surrogate births have been an emotional journey costing around $80,000 - and worth every cent.

Commercial surrogacy, where the woman carrying the implanted foetus is paid, is illegal in Australia, and adoption by gay couples is not permitted in South Australia.

This left Mark and Matt to look overseas for the biological children they have always wanted.

Mark is Adelaide born and bred, Matt is originally from the state's Mid-North, and both intend to make Adelaide their long term home so moving to an area with different legislation was not an option.

They are confident their stable relationship, backed by family support and good jobs, will give their children a strong start to life.

The men had to wait outside the birthing rooms in Bangkok's BNH Hospital while the births took place, and had fleeting glimpses and only brief physical contact with their children immediately afterwards until it was time to take them home.

"At that moment, as we got into the taxi, it was real," Mark said, speaking from their apartment in Bangkok's financial district of Silom, which has been their home since Boxing Day.

"It had been exciting up until then but at that moment we knew we had our children."

Matt said: "That was the moment we knew Tate and Estelle were finally ours and no one could take them away."

The path to parenthood has taken years and many serious decisions.

The men had considered surrogacy in the past but a recent law change in India - where many Australians had turned to in the past - banning gay men from commercial surrogacy, and a desire to have children by their 30s, spurred them to action early last year.

Research including checking Facebook surrogacy groups pointed to Thailand as their best option.

An agent there arranged for an anonymous egg donor, offering a choice of ethnicities. The men chose caucasian.

Eggs were harvested in Thailand, checked for health then each man fertilised one of the eggs in a Bangkok IVF clinic.

They do not plan to reveal which of them fertilised which egg for the time being but eventually will tell the children as they grow which parent is their biological father.

"It is obvious to us that they are both our kids, that they are equally loved, and for the moment we are not going to tell the outside world which is related biologically to each of us," Matt said.

"It means all the grandparents will love them equally, and it sends a message that these are both our children.

"In time to come we will tell the kids but by then it will not be a big deal - we are just another family."

The men do not intend to contact the donor mother, although they have left the door open should Tate or Estelle be curious in later life.

"There will be no secrets from the children when they are old enough to understand," Matt said.

"We have decided we will not contact the donor but we do have photos of her which we will give to the children.

"Every family is different. I grew up with only a sister, and to me the idea of someone saying "where's my mother?" is like me saying "where is my brother?" - that is just not the family you are in."

After the eggs were harvested and fertilised at Bangkok's All IVF Clinic, they were implanted in two Thai women who were paid to carry them for the next nine months under a written contract.

Under Thai law the women must already have had children and also be single.

The first clause is to ease emotional bonds and also negate the risk of anguish should the woman be unable to have children later in life.

The latter exists because, if the surrogate is married, her Thai husband legally becomes the father.

Despite the enormous odds both IVF implants thrived, resulting in both being ready for the caesarean delivery on January 6.

Mark and Matt arrived in Thailand a week beforehand, anxiously awaiting the births.

Since then there have been various paperwork hurdles to clear from their temporary home in a Bangkok apartment

DNA tests had to be performed to confirm the South Australians are the biological fathers. Blood from heel pricks on the babies were taken in the Bangkok hospital with an Australian Embassy official present as a witness, and sent to an Australian laboratory which confirmed Mark and Matt as the fathers.

Then Embassy officials last week held a detailed interview with the two surrogates to ensure they were still voluntarily willing to carry out the contract and let the two fathers take over as sole parents.

The two fathers do not intend to stay in contact with the surrogates.

After the Embassy meeting the women were encouraged to hold the newborns and have photos taken with them to ensure they were willing to relinquish them.

With Australian citizenship for the children, the new family is waiting on fast track passports before finally leaving Bangkok this week to start a new life in a suddenly crowded house in Adelaide, now full of cots, toys and the paraphernalia of parenthood.

Both men are grateful for the full support of their parents, and each has an older sister with a son who are also delighted with the additions to the family.

Both also say they have not experienced discrimination as gay men and expect changing social circumstances will see acceptance of an unconventional family brimming with love.

"We have not had any negativity at all, in fact even strangers who learn about it have been supportive," Matt said.

"I think we live in a day and age where we don't face the setbacks people had to put up with not so long ago."

Mark noted any critics should simply look at the love surrounding the babies.

"We do have some expectation that people will be accepting of diversity," he said. "Some people may say irrational things but families are diverse."

Matt chimed in: "There is not a part of parenting that is gender specific."

* Mark and Matt asked that their surnames not be used. Their children will carry both surnames, hyphenated.

Source: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/south-australian-gay-couple-travel-to-thailand-for-birth-of-their-surrogate-twins/story-e6frg6n6-1226821437995

--The Australian 2014-02-08

[Costas2008]

"Eggs were harvested in Thailand, checked for health then each man fertilised one of the eggs in a Bangkok IVF clinic."

Is this ethically correct?

[Tywais]

Some background on this from last year.

Concern as Australians turn to Thailand for surrogates

[Jingthing]

"Eggs were harvested in Thailand, checked for health then each man fertilised one of the eggs in a Bangkok IVF clinic."

Is this ethically correct?

That's a good question in general -- surrogate birthing.

This is becoming a big business in India and totally legal.

Heterosexual parents.

Gay couples wouldn't be welcome in India (homosexuality is illegal there).

Not sure whether you were asking about the surrogate issue, the gay parenting issue, or both?

Edited February 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[Samuidelight]

"Eggs were harvested in Thailand, checked for health then each man fertilised one of the eggs in a Bangkok IVF clinic."

Is this ethically correct?

apparently this is correct for them and many others who would like to be fathers

[thesetat2013]

Isnt there some law in australia about a gay couple living together raisinf children? Without a mother. I am sure a mother has first custody rights. So isnt it possible they may send the children back to thailand to the mother?

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Costas2008]

Jingthing, on 10 Feb 2014 - 14:56, said:

Costas2008, on 10 Feb 2014 - 14:50, said:

"Eggs were harvested in Thailand, checked for health then each man fertilised one of the eggs in a Bangkok IVF clinic."

Is this ethically correct?

That's a good question in general -- surrogate birthing.

This is becoming a big business in India and totally legal.

Heterosexual parents.

Gay couples wouldn't be welcome in India (homosexuality is illegal there).

Not sure whether you were asking about the surrogate issue, the gay parenting issue, or both?

No JT, I have nothing against gay parenting, in fact I wish them Good Luck and happiness with the kids.

I was questioning the interference with nature, that I don't believe is right.

[Clutch]

Dad and Dad must be 'over the moon'!

[draftvader]

The real issue here isn't the sexuality of the parents at all. There are many people who are raised by 1 piss poor parent that couldn't give an s**t. 2 fathers who both love you dearly? Fine.

The issue here is that there are 1,000,000s of children all over the world who are already born but will live their lives in homes never knowing the love of a parent. These 2 (and many, many others like them including infertile hetero couples) could really make a difference but make this choice. That is what I have a problem with.

[spirit47]

Next you can order babys online via amazon. I think there must be an border making babys to a consumers product. Its not ok to make children without history, the history is part of everybodys identity.

[Jingthing]

Homosexuality is fully legal in Thailand and Australia.

Same sex MARRIAGE is not (YET) legal in either country.

Both countries have many same sex couples and/or gay single parents raising children, perfectly legally, even if BOTH parents are not so recognized.

The children in such situations have a legal disadvantage if BOTH parents aren't legally recognized as their parents though.

That's one of the important issues in favor of legalizing same sex marriages in many countries.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[cocopops]

Jingthing, on 10 Feb 2014 - 14:56, said:

Costas2008, on 10 Feb 2014 - 14:50, said:

"Eggs were harvested in Thailand, checked for health then each man fertilised one of the eggs in a Bangkok IVF clinic."

Is this ethically correct?

That's a good question in general -- surrogate birthing.

This is becoming a big business in India and totally legal.

Heterosexual parents.

Gay couples wouldn't be welcome in India (homosexuality is illegal there).

Not sure whether you were asking about the surrogate issue, the gay parenting issue, or both?

No JT, I have nothing against gay parenting, in fact I wish them Good Luck and happiness with the kids.

I was questioning the interference with nature, that I don't believe is right.

Supposing, for arguments sake, that the children are every bit as healthy as your average child, who is the victim here?

How can there be an ethical issue without a victim? No harm, no foul, correct?

Edited February 10, 2014 by cocopops

[Tywais]

A whole bunch of nasty homophobic remarks and their replies have been removed. Someone is eager for a holiday, so cease the inflammatory troll comments.

[h90]

No! it is not homophobia. Noone is scared of the gays just worried about the breakdown of society if they are allowed to spread their warped values. It is our duty to rise up against the gay menace. To stop them destroying family values. They eat away like a cancer. We can pray for them but we must never accept what they do to be normal.

You don't even know the DEFINITION of homophobia, mate. Suggest you learn that first before denying your blatant homophobia. You are spewing HATE SPEECH here. Should that be tolerated? Would it be tolerated if you were saying similar things about people based on race, ethnicity, nationality, or religion? I think not. You feel free to do that. That's disgusting ... and you claim to be a Christian ,... even more disgusting.

I actually don't care about gays and I am Atheist, but I think it is fair that if some make their sexual preferences a big topic, than other people should be allowed to comment on it, either positive or negative.

Freedom of speech and opinion.

I for example don't like Christians who try to convert me.....I also don't like people who are noisy. Khungribo on the other side is Christian and don't like homos...Most probably he also doesn't like Atheists like me. But I think it his good right to do so.

[Jingthing]

Is it the majority's right to deny equal civil rights for an unpopular minority? I think not. As an atheist do you enjoy full legal civil rights in your home country and also in Thailand? I assume so. The point is if it's legal for heterosexual couples to do surrogate parenting (which is a legitimate controversy) it SHOULD be also legal for same sex hopeful parents. Maybe it should be illegal for everyone, that's arguable. The current situation is it is legal and possible to do these surrogate deals in some countries.

Also to suggest all Christians are anti-gay is incorrect.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Jingthing

[Costas2008]

cocopops, on 10 Feb 2014 - 16:01, said:

Costas2008, on 10 Feb 2014 - 15:14, said:

Jingthing, on 10 Feb 2014 - 14:56, said:Jingthing, on 10 Feb 2014 - 14:56, said:

Costas2008, on 10 Feb 2014 - 14:50, said:Costas2008, on 10 Feb 2014 - 14:50, said:

"Eggs were harvested in Thailand, checked for health then each man fertilised one of the eggs in a Bangkok IVF clinic."

Is this ethically correct?

That's a good question in general -- surrogate birthing.

This is becoming a big business in India and totally legal.

Heterosexual parents.

Gay couples wouldn't be welcome in India (homosexuality is illegal there).

Not sure whether you were asking about the surrogate issue, the gay parenting issue, or both?

No JT, I have nothing against gay parenting, in fact I wish them Good Luck and happiness with the kids.

I was questioning the interference with nature, that I don't believe is right.

Supposing, for arguments sake, that the children are every bit as healthy as your average child, who is the victim here?

How can there be an ethical issue without a victim? No harm, no foul, correct?

The victim is NATURE.

[theslime]

I do hope the Surrogate Mothers are feeling no remorse, To carry a Baby for 9 months,then give it up to 2 rich Guys .Crazy World we live in.

[ikke]

Homosexuality is fully legal in Thailand and Australia.

Same sex MARRIAGE is not (YET) legal in either country.

Both countries have many same sex couples and/or gay single parents raising children, perfectly legally, even if BOTH parents are not so recognized.

The children in such situations have a legal disadvantage if BOTH parents aren't legally recognized as their parents though.

That's one of the important issues in favor of legalizing same sex marriages in many countries.

I personally think that marriage is not important... if two people love each other no paper is needed.

When i talk about my wife , many times i get the comment, "your wife? i thought you where not married" well , stupid comment....

The person I share my love with, and she with me, i share my problems with her and she with me, we sleep together , we wok together etc.... why she's not my wife, because the catholic's wants a paper and the governments adopted that strange idea ?????

I live together with my wife , but we are not married ! Reality is not be written on a piece of (government) paper.

Si If you are gay , please don't try to get attention with a marriage, be who you want to be !!!!!

[Jingthing]

I do hope the Surrogate Mothers are feeling no remorse, To carry a Baby for 9 months,then give it up to 2 rich Guys .Crazy World we live in.

There is a good documentary about this from India. Perhaps someone recalls the name. The mother's center documented there is very well organized and professionally and humanely managed. It did seem that most mothers were OK with the situation but of course we can't know what is in their hearts and how they will feel years down the road. I think this is a legitimate ethical question on so many levels. Mostly parents from wealthier countries hiring poor people from poorer countries to be their rental wombs.

[Jingthing]

Homosexuality is fully legal in Thailand and Australia.

Same sex MARRIAGE is not (YET) legal in either country.

Both countries have many same sex couples and/or gay single parents raising children, perfectly legally, even if BOTH parents are not so recognized.

The children in such situations have a legal disadvantage if BOTH parents aren't legally recognized as their parents though.

That's one of the important issues in favor of legalizing same sex marriages in many countries.

I personally think that marriage is not important... if two people love each other no paper is needed.

When i talk about my wife , many times i get the comment, "your wife? i thought you where not married" well , stupid comment....

The person I share my love with, and she with me, i share my problems with her and she with me, we sleep together , we wok together etc.... why she's not my wife, because the catholic's wants a paper and the governments adopted that strange idea ?????

I live together with my wife , but we are not married ! Reality is not be written on a piece of (government) paper.

Si If you are gay , please don't try to get attention with a marriage, be who you want to be !!!!!

Dude, you have the CHOICE! Most gay people in the world don't have the CHOICE. Nobody is talking about REQUIRING any kind of marriage.

[h90]

Is it the majority's right to deny equal civil rights for an unpopular minority? I think not. As an atheist do you enjoy full legal civil rights in your home country and also in Thailand? I assume so. The point is if it's legal for heterosexual couples to do surrogate parenting (which is a legitimate controversy) it SHOULD be also legal for same sex hopeful parents. Maybe it should be illegal for everyone, that's arguable. The current situation is it is legal and possible to do these surrogate deals in some countries.

Also to suggest all Christians are anti-gay is incorrect.

Sorry not all Christians are anti-gay....I was in my mind at the catholic....

Independent from this topic

Yes in a democracy the majority must have the right to deny some rights to a minority. Alone for the reason: If the majority is not allowed, who can overrule the majority in a democracy?

For me it is total acceptable that some Christs don't accept my way of belief and they can complain about it day and night.....It is their right to have a different opinion.

Of course if I would live in Saudi Arabia I would have a different opinion...

[nauseus]

The real issue here isn't the sexuality of the parents at all. There are many people who are raised by 1 piss poor parent that couldn't give an s**t. 2 fathers who both love you dearly? Fine.

The issue here is that there are 1,000,000s of children all over the world who are already born but will live their lives in homes never knowing the love of a parent. These 2 (and many, many others like them including infertile hetero couples) could really make a difference but make this choice. That is what I have a problem with.

Well said - good point. Several issues here though. It's a pity the kids themselves don't get to have a say how they are conceived and parented!

They are going to get a lot of stick in school. Hopefully they will be cherished amid a good family environment but it will be difficult for them, whatever.

[belg]

hub of surrogate mothers, well there is a business model... how did they get their name on the birth certificate as father (not married with thai woman) and how can those babies leave thailand (passport, authorisation from mother....)

big lawyer business setup me thinks

and, how much was it ?

[Misterwhisper]

So, who of the two is going to breastfeed?

On a different note, I wish them both the best of luck. However, I would've liked it better if they had adopted two orphaned newborns or infants instead of "making their own". There are tens of thousands of children in this country who will never have the privilege of feeling parental love, and I suppose it probably would've cost them much less if they had adopted a couple. But then again, it was their choice.

[ronthai]

They are going to get a lot of stick in school. Hopefully they will be cherished amid a good family environment but it will be difficult for them, whatever.

That is the old generation idea's. A new world regarding gay acceptence is in the making. These kids will most likely grow up in a far more accepted world/situation then any of us.

[xminator]

The real issue here isn't the sexuality of the parents at all. There are many people who are raised by 1 piss poor parent that couldn't give an s**t. 2 fathers who both love you dearly? Fine.

The issue here is that there are 1,000,000s of children all over the world who are already born but will live their lives in homes never knowing the love of a parent. These 2 (and many, many others like them including infertile hetero couples) could really make a difference but make this choice. That is what I have a problem with.

It is not their responsibility to care for 1 million failed condoms. They have as all people a want for biological children of their own. Their own genes continued. Its their choice, and their choice alone.

They could have chosen insemination. Either in a clinic or on their own. They could have chosen to have unprotected sex to get the same result. I just dont see the ethical problem as long as the mother is taken care of in the best possible way.

[Morakot]

how much was it ?

$80,000 in total, read the article.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Morakot

[falangadang]

Isnt there some law in australia about a gay couple living together raisinf children? Without a mother. I am sure a mother has first custody rights. So isnt it possible they may send the children back to thailand to the mother?

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Custody rights are generally decided upon by a court or by a legal document that both parties have agreed to. It appears that the attendant legalities have been careful considered by these young men.

One thing I can tell you is that there is no law in Australia that prevents women from raising children without the presence of a father. In fact, the Family Court of Australia is highly in favor of promoting it even to the extent that it will issue custody orders which include the excommunication of the father from the family (been there,. done that and got the scars to prove it!).

Children nowadays are being raised in some very strange and completely unorthodox family environments so this scenario of two gay men becoming parents isn't that far removed from what is going on anyway in the world in many varied ways.

If it's OK for women (many who are less than well balanced) to be raising kids on their own then why not these young men who seem bright and intelligent and committed to family principles despite their sexual orientation?

Let's not forget that the process of these two children coming into the world did not violate God's science in that the egg of a woman was fertilized by seed of a man and incubated in the womb of a woman.

Ethics are a different issue and one in which there will always be conjecture depending on culture, religion and personal opinion and bias.

I wish the best for these two young men and their children and hope they all live a happy and blessed life together!

[laobali]

I feel sorry for these children when they reach school age and have to try and explain their relationship and parental origins to their peers. I wonder if the fathers gave any thought to this beforehand. But the deed is done.

[robertthebruce]

What a lovely story, and i wish them all the best, The kids i am sure will have a great life, and will be loved ..

I am a Gay male, and in a relationship and have been for some time, and would LOVE to give some unfortunate Orphan a good loving home, but have you seen how difficult it is to do this especially here in Thailand...

But thats another story, lets just dwell on the Good News...

Happy as punch for the 4 of them.....