Thai passport and birth certificate for child born in UK

[BabyButton]

Our son was born 10 days ago to a British mother and his father, a Thai citizen.

We are not married.

According to the Thai website in London we are able to obtain a birth certificate for him and also a passport, BUT now according to the woman on the phone he is not entitled to "anything Thai" unless my partner and I are married.

Can anyone confirm this as I have always thought we would be able to register him here without being married. We were also just told we would only ever be able to register his birth in the UK. We live in Thailand but chose to have the baby born in the UK. If this is true it would mean returning to Thailand, getting married and then flying back to the UK to get our sons certificate and passport.

Thanks

[howerde]

.

Edited February 10, 2014 by howerde

[ubonjoe]

She told you absolutely wrong info. This from embassy website: http://thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/191

There is nothing to keep your child from having Thai nationality.

3.2 If the child’s parents aren't married.

1. A recent (2 x2 inches) photograph of the child
2. A photocopy of UK/Irish Full Birth Certificate.
3. A photocopy of Parents’ Valid Passports
4. A photocopy of Parents’ Thai Identity Cards or Thai House Registration.
5. A Request Form - completed except for leaving the signature section blank to be signed in person in front of the Consular officer. If the child wishes to use the father’s surname, a consent letter to use the father’s surname has to be signed by the father in person at the embassy.
6. A photocopy of Child Custody document - Por. Kor. 14 (only for cases of lost contact with the father).

Remarks: If wishing to apply for an e-passport for the child on the same day, please prepare all above documents in 2 copies.

[BabyButton]

Thanks for your reply!

That is exactly what I thought and she when I mentioned to her about the website she said that information was incorrect and either we get married and apply or wait until our son is 7 and then we can apply, married or not.

Very confused!

[Jay Sata]

Just remember if you get him Thai citizenship he is liable for draft to the Thai military when he is 19/20.

[BabyButton]

Is that only if he is living in Thailand at the time he is 20? Surely if he is living by then in the UK there is not much they can do?

[ubonjoe]

The draft issue is irrelevant at the moment. Who knows what it will be in 20 years.

If living in UK at that time he would be exempt if the rules are the same as now.

[theoldgit]

Let's stick to the question asked, about obtaining a Thai Passport.

"ubonjoe" has already said the issue of the possibility of a Military Draft in 20 years time is irrelevant at this stage, so lets not go there.

Consequently an off topic post has been removed.

[BabyButton]

Right now I am just concerned about getting him his Thai birth certificate and passport. I have called again today the London embassy and whether or not I just keep getting the same woman on the end of the phone giving me the same wrong information, I have again been told its not possible as we are not married.

Thanks anyway for your help!

[samran]

A child of a Thai citizen is also a Thai citizen. So long as you can prove the link between the child and the mother ( the UK birth certificate should be sufficient) and so long as the mother brings along all Thai ID ( passport ID card and house registration) then you should be fine.

Where I am not 100% sure about is of you a the father will be able to be mentioned on the Thai birth certificate given you aren't married. Perhaps others can speak to that point.

[ubonjoe]

A child of a Thai citizen is also a Thai citizen. So long as you can prove the link between the child and the mother ( the UK birth certificate should be sufficient) and so long as the mother brings along all Thai ID ( passport ID card and house registration) then you should be fine.

Where I am not 100% sure about is of you a the father will be able to be mentioned on the Thai birth certificate given you aren't married. Perhaps others can speak to that point.

I think you should change mother to father in this case.

[theoldgit]

Further off topic post deleted.

[Mario2008]

If not married, technically the father is not the father in the eyes of the law until the father legitimizes the child. At that point the embassy is correct. That is also what the waiting till the age of 7 refers to, but the embassy forgets that legitimisation can also be done through the courts and than the child does not have to be at least 7.

Further the embassy seems to forget that the child is in the UK and legitimisation of the child can be done according to UK-law.

[BabyButton]

Thanks Mario2008! I have just seen another post in which you explained this topic in detail. So am I right to believe then that we are only able at present to do this through court? Should this be through court in the UK as he was born here?

Also, we are engaged to be married end of this year anyway so if we just decide to wait until we are married, would we all need to be present at the embassy in the UK when registering him?

Thanks

[ubonjoe]

I am not convinced that legitimization is needed. The Amphoes do birth certificates here without it when the parents are not married.

This from Sydney consulate website. http://www.thaiconsulatesydney.org/english/registration-services

In the case that the parents are not married and the child will be using the father’s name, the father must sign a letter stating his acceptance of the child and giving consent to the use of his surname

Also see DC embassy website where they list a legitimization form to have notarized. http://www.thaiembdc.org/dcdp/Registration_of_Birth

I think it might be advisable to have somebody read the Thai version of registering a birth on the London embassy website because of possible loss int the translation . http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/?q=node/82

[Mario2008]

Agree that legitimization was in the past not needed, but OP said the embassy refered to new rules and strictly speaking it would be the right procedure to want the child to be legitimised, otherwise he isn't the father.

Not sure the UK demands going to court, going to court is the option under Thai law. In many western countries this can be done at the local registar with both mother and father agreeing that the man is the father. The embassy should recognise a legitimisation under UK law, as the child is and was born in the UK.

[ubonjoe]

The London embassy has given completely wrong info on the phone before. Best to go in person to get it straight I think or make an appointment and go in with all the required documents and see what happens.

[BabyButton]

I just want to thank you all for your responses but I honestly feel hopeless every time I deal with this Thai Embassy in London.

We took your advice ubonjoe and visited the embassy but they wouldn't even bother to acknowledge us as soon as we didn't have a marriage certificate.

Any other advice? I fail to see how we will ever get this Birth Certificate if we can only do it in London and they are not interested.

[ubonjoe]

The problem is that you are dealing with some arrogant bureaucrats at the embassy.

My research on other embassy and official consulates websites indicate they should do it even if not married.

They even have a "Registration of Legitimation of Child" Download Form 10 .on their website they could do.

You could look on the MFA website http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/home or Consular website http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/home

to see if their is a way to file a complaint.

[samran]

Strange.

This is from the Thai embassy in Canberra

http://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEcQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcanberra.thaiembassy.org%2Fdoc%2Finfo%2Finfo_migration.pdf&ei=v-4OU92BGsq4rAek3YD4BA&usg=AFQjCNGM8t1vfp7WempVzyFo_rRnuPbRUA&sig2=X4Vez6hO3jo8D7JXR_T6WA

This from the MFA

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/1415/21482-e-Passport-Application-for-Thai-Nationals-Living-A.html

[Mario2008]

Contact the Thai Consular department, see here near the bottom:

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/org-chart

protection Thai nationals abroad section (probably)

They should contact the embassy and set them straight.

[samran]

I've uploaded presentation on the Thai nationality act as well..

http://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2F203.157.219.17%2Fitcmpo%2Findex.php%2Fdownload%2Flist-of-files%3Fdownload%3D7%3Anation-98&ei=3fQOU8ahDYXArAfejIDYDQ&usg=AFQjCNFiHvMUtRLr2yq6D7Ks5-LY9Zn20g&sig2=qc9ebEHfaRROfFoTLopFeA

see last page, seems to prove the embassy's approach

๒.พ่อไทย ไม่สมรส แม่ต่างด้าว

ลูกไม่ได้ไทย ตามฎีกา ๕๖๐/๒๕๔๓

The child doesn't receive Thai citizenship in the situation of a thai father and foriegn mother not married when the child is born overseas....

Seems to be discussion here about this, here: http://www.l3nr.org/posts/358675

Edited February 27, 2014 by samran

[ubonjoe]

I could not open that one. Could you find it in this translated version that includes all amendments up to 2112. Nationality Act B.E. 2508 (1965)

I think the section you mention was rescinded or amended because it was discriminatory under the constitution..

[samran]

Just to add, I emailed the embassy, just as I found it highly confusing. They send me this response:

3.2 If the child’s parents aren't married.

1. A recent (2 x2 inches) photograph of the child
2. A photocopy of UK/Irish Full Birth Certificate.
3. A photocopy of Parents’ Valid Passports
4. A photocopy of Parents’ Thai Identity Cards or Thai House Registration.
5. A Request Form - completed except for leaving the signature section blank to be signed in person in front of the Consular officer. If the child wishes to use the father’s surname, a consent letter to use the father’s surname has to be signed by the father in person at the embassy.
6. A photocopy of Child Custody document - Por. Kor. 14 (only for cases of lost contact with the father).

Remarks: If wishing to apply for an e-passport for the child on the same day, please prepare all above documents in 2 copies.

[BabyButton]

Thanks everyone, I will check out those pages!

Samran I cannot believe the even responded to your email, they never responded to mine at all.

Did they maybe assume your a British father and its a Thai mother as that seems to be where our problem is. Was this also the London Embassy?? Seems you have gotten further than me in one email

[Richard W]

Further the embassy seems to forget that the child is in the UK and legitimisation of the child can be done according to UK-law.

Are you sure that's the position in Thai law? Under British law, legitimation (at least, of someone born abroad) would take place according to the law of the father's place of domicile, which appears to be Thailand.

[samran]

[email protected]

Was the email address I wrote to. I asked if the parents were unmarried but probably wasn't as clear as I should have been. I've since written back asking for a clarification as per your situation.