Aeon Bank now charge 150 B ATM fee

[Pib]

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Schwab Anomaly: I attempted my first 30K pull from my local TMB bank yesterday. No problem with the 30K part, but the transaction was refused. First time in almost 10 years in Thailand that I ran into that. Tried CIMB - same-same.

I called Schwab - after navigating their brutal security gauntlet, a very accommodating CSR checked and said that both attempts had flagged their fraud monitor. He cleared the account and assured me that I would probably not have any more problems. I asked why the account had been flagged, but he didn't know.

He said in a case like this they file a report with their fraud unit so they can look for past patterns and adjust their fraud monitor. Everything was OK today, but I didn't like the comment about "looking for past patterns" I'm hoping their fraud police are not concerned with repetitive withdrawals from Thailand and an extensive amount of reimbursals of the Thai banker's usury fee. Time will tell . . .

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Pib et. al. Has this happened with State Farm Bank yet ? If Schwab is considered brutal by SurfRider he has no idea of what State Farm is like. I ran the SF gauntlet the other day, just trying to obtain their Routing number for Social Security and it seems that every time I try and access my SF account I have to jump through these hoops

Nope, for me I've never had an issued with State Farm. Their debit card has never given me an issue/reject and I've used it a lot more than the Schwab card. Never had any issue with the SF online banking either. Now, if I Iog-on on with a new computer/device or new browser St Farm has not seen me use before it will run three or four security Q&As on me to allow me to access my account. After passing the test, I then click yes this is a device I own and St Farm don't asked those security question again. I think the last time the Q&A's popped up was when I reloaded Win 8.1 on my new computer about a month ago and the St Farm sensed a change in my computer system, ran the Q&As on me, I passed, back to the typical log-on of User ID and Password. For me, no issues with St Farm.

Now about 6 months ago my Schwab card was initially rejected at an AEON ATM (the ATM said call your bank). However, I slide the card back in and it worked OK on the 2nd and 3rd tries/withdrawal attempts (AEON had the Bt20K limit and I had to do two pulls to get my full $1000/Bt32K per day limit authorized by the card). But when I got home the Visa Police had left me a phone message, I called them back and they wanted to know if it was indeed me which was making the withdrawals in Thailand, I said Yes, that made them happy, but they also recommend I call Schwab since the flag that generated their call has been set by Schwab. I didn't call Schwab and used the card for several more weeks in making withdrawals but then one day the card would always reject...get the call you bank error msg on the ATM. I called Schwab, told them it was me indeed, told them I'm a retiree which spends a lot of time in Thailand, the removed whatever flag they had, been good to go ever since. And a couple months ago I got a call from the Visa Police asking if I had made a certain transaction of X-dollars on date-Y (I think this was for my CapOne Visa credit card though)...actually the voice mail left was a computer talking to me, gave me a case number and phone number to call back to...I called the number, entered the case number, the computer then asked me if it was me who did the transaction in question....I said yes, and the computer said Thanks...your card can continue to be used as normal....absolutely no interface with a human on this case...just a Visa Police interactive voice system.

Now I haven't used my Schwab or St Farm debit cards for almost a month now since AEON started charging the Bt150 fee...switched to the no foreign transaction/no cash advance fee PenFed credit card counter withdrawal method which I pay the same day to prevent any interest charges...I can pull up $2,000/day using this method...same Visa exchange rate, no fees, no interest, etc.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

FWIW, on this subject, I've had two different of my brokerage/checking accounts get temporarily locked on me in the past couple months. Apparently not because of debit card use (because I rarely use either of the VISA debit cards associated with those accounts), but instead because of online banking log-ins originating in Thailand.

By way of background, normally when I do any of my online banking activities, I normally log-in using my U.S. residence IP address. But I must have slipped at some point when traveling, and then suddenly found myself locked out of those accounts. Not simultaneously, first one, and then the second one, a month or two later. Both lockouts resolved by calls to the respective brokerage's fraud units.

In one case, they ran me thru a couple of the credit report personal info type questions. In the other case, they just asked for some personally identifying info, and when I rapidly and surely provided it, they were satisfied and unlocked the account. In both cases, I informed them that I travel abroad periodically and asked that they put a notation in my account record reflecting that, which supposedly they were going to do.

But in both cases, the two brokerages separately recommended, and I agreed, for them to issue me one of their so-called security token devices that can hang off your keychain. Basically, it's a small battery-powered device the size of a car-door opener on which you press a single key, and it generates a random 6-digit number that you add onto the end of your account password for that particular log-in. The brokerages claimed that by using their security tokens, it should reduce or eliminate the "fraud" flaggings, which I certainly hope will be the case.

Over the past months, I've increasingly run into situations -- both in banking and other online activities -- where the IP address I'm using when online is getting recorded and recognized by the websites on the other end. I've had online retail purchases canceled or held because, even though my shipping and billing addresses were both in the U.S., the IP address used for those transactioons was not and the merchants' systems flagged it. All in all, it's kind of made me inclined to be sure I'm using my home U.S. IP address/connections anytime I'm conducting any U.S.-based business on the Internet.

[SurfRider]

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"I normally log-in using my U.S. residence IP address"

Tall guy, can you say which VPN you use to relocate your IP to the U.S.? I have one but it's very slow and sometimes locks up.

If not appropriate to post in this thread, could you please PM me? - Thanks in advance.

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[TallGuyJohninBKK]

SR.. PM sent.

[SurfRider]

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Tonight at my local CIMB (Red Bank) branch, the Thai Banker's ATM usury fee had been increased to 180 Baht. No way to know if it's same at all CIMBs, but probably only a matter of time.

Last night TMB was still 150 Baht.

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[Pib]

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Tonight at my local CIMB (Red Bank) branch, the Thai Banker's ATM usury fee had been increased to 180 Baht. No way to know if it's same at all CIMBs, but probably only a matter of time.

Last night TMB was still 150 Baht.

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It's called Bank collusion... correction , I mean competition....all the banks raising their fee to match... plus, a higher fee is always better than a lower fee... ask any banker.

Sent from my Onda V971 tablet

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

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Tonight at my local CIMB (Red Bank) branch, the Thai Banker's ATM usury fee had been increased to 180 Baht. No way to know if it's same at all CIMBs, but probably only a matter of time.

Last night TMB was still 150 Baht..

SR, re CIMB, do you mean the latest fee was 180 for a VISA logo card or MC logo card?

[SurfRider]

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It's a Schwab/VISA Debit Card - the only option I currently have.

I'll soon have an E-Trade VISA Debit, which also covers the Thai ATM fee, but charges the 1% VISA network charge.

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[prog]

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It's a Schwab/VISA Debit Card - the only option I currently have.

I'll soon have an E-Trade VISA Debit, which also covers the Thai ATM fee, but charges the 1% VISA network charge.

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yellow bank hit me up for 180 today

at least you can pull 30k at a time though...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's sounding like the Thai banks, as a group, are moving to make their VISA card withdrawal fee match the 180b fee that most of them are already charging against foreign MasterCards.

[Pib]

Next stop Bt200.

[JimGant]

at least you can pull 30k at a time though...

Lemme see. Reduce that to 15k per pull, and -- gosh darn, Norma -- that's 360 baht for dispensing 30,000 baht.

Wish all business decisions were so obvious.

And, speaking of business decisions, at what point does Schwab (etal) terminate (limit) their ATM fee refund policy?

[Pib]

Oh come on Jim, 10K per pull should be more than enough... and that would allow us (Bankers in Thailand) to make 540 Baht per 30K. Besides 99% are farang tourist making the withdrawals and tourist always expect to get screwed in getting money--let's really enhance that experience for them. What you say? Maybe better to wait until Jan 2015 you say since we just raised the traveller cheques cashing fee by five fold (from 30 to 150 baht). OK.. maybe you are right...we don't want to appear too greedy.

Sent from my Onda V971 tablet

[arunsakda]

The diversity of THAI VISA forum

Some looking for ATM's that allow 35000 withdrawal per day

Others outraged they might have been overcharged 5 Baht on a songthaew ride.

[elzach]

Oh come on Jim, 10K per pull should be more than enough... and that would allow us (Bankers in Thailand) to make 540 Baht per 30K. Besides 99% are farang tourist making the withdrawals and tourist always expect to get screwed in getting money--let's really enhance that experience for them. What you say? Maybe better to wait until Jan 2015 you say since we just raised the traveller cheques cashing fee by five fold (from 30 to 150 baht). OK.. maybe you are right...we don't want to appear too greedy.

Sent from my Onda V971 tablet

Yes, it's clear the local bankers are following the long-established pricing rule in Thailand: foreigners will pay the "falang prices". Sometimes double, sometimes triple, sometimes quintuple of what a local will pay. Never mind that an average Thai would rather rob a bank/ATM than pay a 150-180 baht fee.

Now, the result is what? You have to look at it from the bankers' perspective. Go to another bank? we took care of that option. Also, the average tourist will stay let's say 1-2 weeks, make 2-3 withdrawals (CC's are accepted everywhere), hardly a dent in a vacationer's wallet. The bankers calculated correctly, if that tourist will pay 130-150 bht for a beer on Sukhumvit, heck the least we can charge him is 180 bht for his cash.

This measure hurts mostly the foreigners who stay here indefinitely and depend on the local ATMs. So what do the local bankers think? Of course you have to pay more (a lot more) for the "privilege" of staying in Thailand. After all, Thailand is amazing....what, brainwashing didn't work?

Having said the above, I just came back from Yangon, where every single ATM charges 5000 kyat withdrawal fee ($5.10), which is equivalent to a local's half day wages. Plus, no half-decent hotel can be had for less than $50-$60 a night. The guesthouses there charge as much as a 3-4 star hotel in BKK. Which of course explains why the tourists keep coming back here.

[55Jay]

Reporting only due to my surprise, in a way, that I accomplished another over the counter w/d at BB today with Schwab visa debit for 26 k. Just happened to that amount, mindful she may have sent me packing to the ATM had I said 25.

Closed out 1 of 2 BB fixed accounts after that and, with cashier's cheque in hand, drove over to Krungsi (BAY) to learn the MTD savings account was reduced from 2.5 to 2.35% yesterday. Duly reported on the Bank Savings Rate thread as well.

[i claudius]

Today i said goodby to aeon and my metro bank account ,for the last few weeks i have accepted the 150 baht ,but from the 18th Metro bank are going to charge for the use of their card abroad ,so good by both its been good this last 2 years ,you never know ,maybe one day

or maybe might just try loading a caxton fx card ,dont look to bad ,

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Reporting only due to my surprise, in a way, that I accomplished another over the counter w/d at BB today with Schwab visa debit for 26 k. Just happened to that amount, mindful she may have sent me packing to the ATM had I said 25.

55, who handled the transaction for you, a regular teller or different bank staff?

And, did they do it via a swipe machine at the counter, or the bank staff disappeared back into their back office and then returned?

Thanks for posting what transpired, and also that at least SOME BKK Bank branches will accept debit cards for counter withdrawals, even if Pib's local branch won't, in typical Thai bank style fashion.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Today i said goodby to aeon and my metro bank account ,for the last few weeks i have accepted the 150 baht ,but from the 18th Metro bank are going to charge for the use of their card abroad ,so good by both its been good this last 2 years ,you never know ,maybe one day

or maybe might just try loading a caxton fx card ,dont look to bad ,

There are still some UK banking options available that have no foreign currency fee.

Whether those accounts are available to you, or whether you'd be interested in them, are separate questions.

I haven't heard of any UK bank accounts with no FCF that also reimburse other banks' ATM fees. But at least you'd be saving on the FCF, and perhaps still have the option of doing no-fee counter withdrawals.

[jpinx]

I used a visa card in the yellow ATM today to get 30,000 and they now charge 180Baht. Up from 150Baht a few weeks ago.

[55Jay]

Reporting only due to my surprise, in a way, that I accomplished another over the counter w/d at BB today with Schwab visa debit for 26 k. Just happened to that amount, mindful she may have sent me packing to the ATM had I said 25.

55, who handled the transaction for you, a regular teller or different bank staff?

And, did they do it via a swipe machine at the counter, or the bank staff disappeared back into their back office and then returned?

Thanks for posting what transpired, and also that at least SOME BKK Bank branches will accept debit cards for counter withdrawals, even if Pib's local branch won't, in typical Thai bank style fashion.

Regular teller. Swipe card, located at the front/reception desk. The one last week posted/settled on Schwab as a "VISA" transaction.

I'll run with it long as they'll do it, but will be sorting out another contingency.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Regular teller. Swipe card, located at the front/reception desk.

Sorry, I was trying to ask:

With the regular tellers who typically are standing behind the counter handling withdrawals and deposits, or, with the bank staff who sit at desks out front who usually handle account openings, changing account info, etc?

[55Jay]

Regular teller. Swipe card, located at the front/reception desk.

Sorry, I was trying to ask:

With the regular tellers who typically are standing behind the counter handling withdrawals and deposits, or, with the bank staff who sit at desks out front who usually handle account openings, changing account info, etc?

I understood, normal teller behind the counter, but the swipe machine sits on the front reception/new accounts desk at this branch. I thought that was odd myself but at least the teller was looking fantastic as she strutted back and forth with my card and slips. I might never use the ATM outside again.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks for clarifying!

[Pib]

Location of the bank's card transaction/swipe machine sounds kinda like the branch I used except the machine was located in a walled-off area directly behind all the tellers...not accessible by customers. Maybe they had others somewhere but the two times I have done a counter withdrawal the tellers always used the machine in the walled-off area.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited March 12, 2014 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pib, what exactly do you say to the teller when you go in to make your request? And in English or in Thai?

Most of the bank tellers I've run into here speak little to no English. Do they know the English terms "cash advance" or "counter withdrawal"?

[Pib]

Pib, what exactly do you say to the teller when you go in to make your request? And in English or in Thai?

Most of the bank tellers I've run into here speak little to no English. Do they know the English terms "cash advance" or "counter withdrawal"?

I use both phrases you mentioned. And since I deposit the withdrawal directly into one of my bank accounts at the same time I also use hand motions with the phrases basically saying withdraw from the card and put in the bank account/passbook. And each time at the branch I use they seem more concerned about reviewing the card front to see if it's a debit or credit card...at the branch I use they have no problem doing counter withdrawal for credit cards but if it's a debit card they just say "can not" and point you to their ATM. One of these days I'll try another branch, like the one in my nearby Lotus store but the store is currently undergoing a major renovation and the Bangkok Bank branch is currently operating out of van in front of the store....but this little branch when in the store is only a couple of tellers so I'm not sure they will be receptive to counter withdrawals. But right now I use a large branch (like 10 tellers with numerous customer service desks) in another nearby mall.

You are right that they don't seem to understand much English, even here in western Bangkok, but I expect English words like cash advance, withdrawal, etc., are understood just like how they use the terms debit and credit. A lot of times is it's not they don't understand the word per se, it's just many times they have a hard time understanding western accents but when a Thai says the word in English they have no problem understanding. How many times have you been talking to a Thai, like your partner, having a hard time in trying to get them to understand the word you are saying and then suddenly they understand and repeat the work to you but their pronunciation is "quite a bit" different.

I think when it comes to whether your branch will accept a debit or credit card (or both) it's going to depend on branch management....kinda like how we see differences in immigration offices in how they handle some issues. The next time I go I may throw out one of my debit cards again to see if get the same "can not" answer. But I' happy in using my credit card since it's no foreign transaction fee or cash advance fee (I pay it the same day to avoid any interest) as I can withdraw up to $2,000/day (approx 65K) versus the $1,000/day on both my no fee debit cards. I wish my credit card's cash advance limit per day was more than $2,000, like $3,000 or $3,500 as I would prefer just to do say one periodic cash advance for around Bt100,000. And so far, each withdrawal with deposit also occurring has taken less than 10 minutes including queue time. If you have a nearby branch that is receptive to counter withdrawals then it works out pretty good. And like Jay mentioned, the scenery in the branch is quite nice...but maybe $2,000 per day withdrawal limit is best as it does drive more frequent visits to view the branch scenery.

[55Jay]

Maybe them city slickers in BKK are more fee savvy than the wholesome country girls at my BB branch. Ha ha.

Frankly, cynically, I expected the default "no" at my first counter w/d attempt. I was biting my lip when the teller took my card and disappeared behind the rear partition wall to confer with the teller manager for about 15-20 seconds (I could hear them talking) before emerging from a side door, and walked across the lobby to the swipe machine on the reception/new accts desk. No sidebar behind the green door yesterday, straight out and across to the swiper.

Didn't mention my initial goof last week, but I had Pib's PFCU CC scenario programmed into my head, so I told her to take 57,000 off the Schwab card, which obviously didn't work. After a mental self-kick in the arse, I adjusted down to just under Schwab $1,000 limit and second swipe went through no problem.

[damole]

I got my Halifax Clarity credit card last week, I had to wait until this week for my online activation code so now I'm ready to test. I've just tried sending a £1 from my Metrobank account to my unused credit card account to see how quickly it is credited. My statement date is at the beginning of the month so I don't want to try a cash advance unless I know that I can pay it off on the same day.

I went to the SCB branch in Kad Suan Kaew (Chiang Mai) where I often do debit card withdrawals and was told that 5,000 Bt is the minimum withdrawal, I will check in my local Kasikkorn bank today. If there wasn't a limit I would have already made a test withdrawal to see what happens.

I've seen it written in different places that you are not allowed to load this card but the only thing I can find in the T&Cs is the following:

16.9 You must not make payments or transfer funds from another credit or store card to your account that would leave a credit balance on your account. We may return any funds that exceed the balance owing on your account to the account from which the money has been sent.

Doesn't mention payments or transfers from another bank account.

I will test it for a non cash advance today.

--damole

[Pib]

Maybe them city slickers in BKK are more fee savvy than the wholesome country girls at my BB branch. Ha ha.

Frankly, cynically, I expected the default "no" at my first counter w/d attempt. I was biting my lip when the teller took my card and disappeared behind the rear partition wall to confer with the teller manager for about 15-20 seconds (I could hear them talking) before emerging from a side door, and walked across the lobby to the swipe machine on the reception/new accts desk. No sidebar behind the green door yesterday, straight out and across to the swiper.

Didn't mention my initial goof last week, but I had Pib's PFCU CC scenario programmed into my head, so I told her to take 57,000 off the Schwab card, which obviously didn't work. After a mental self-kick in the arse, I adjusted down to just under Schwab $1,000 limit and second swipe went through no problem.

Don't it give you a good feeling when the clerk comes back and says the card rejected--NOT!!! And in my case the two clerks on each side of my clerk also glanced up at me when I was told that. Yeap, a little embarrassing.

When I tied my PenFed credit card the second time for a Bt100K withdrawal (1st withdrawal was for Bt50K) I assumed since the cash advance line of credit equaled the total credit line of credit (which was way north of $10K) because that is what it said on my account statement, I figured I could pull a REALLY BIG withdrawal. But the teller came back and said the card rejected with an "Over Limit" rejection notice...being a little embarrassed for a few seconds the cogs in my brained turned a few times and then I said try again for Bt50K....I figured that amount worked the first time so hopefully it will the second time versus PenFed having put some time of block on the card after the 1st withdrawal. That 2nd Bt50K pull then proceeded no problem. A call later that day to PenFed in asking what my ATM and counter cash advance limits were revealed $1000/day at an ATM and $2,000/day counter withdrawal although my total cash advance line of credit was much, much higher...it's just I could only get $2,000/day...come back the next day if desired and do another $2,000 withdrawal...continue until you do reach your total line of credit limit.

Yeap, for the Schwab Bank debit card the limit is $1,000 per day at the ATM or counter...about 6 months ago I emailed to ask and that what they responded. Same with my St Farm Bank debit card.