Aeon Bank now charge 150 B ATM fee

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

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Fwiw, The TMB branch in my neighborhood went to the 180 Baht usury fee a month ago. CIMB was still 150 - I'll check both again next week.

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That's odd, SR....

I just double checked my receipt, indeed it was 150 baht today at a TMB ATM using a VISA network card.

I'm assuming you meant you were also using a VISA card -- not a MC, which would have the higher 180 baht fee???

[SurfRider]

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I was using a Schwab Visa Debit Card - Pretty sure I reported it last month in this thread.

Are you saying the ATM differentiates between Visa and MC and charges an MC card the higher rate? First I've heard of that.

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[paz]

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I was using a Schwab Visa Debit Card - Pretty sure I reported it last month in this thread.

Are you saying the ATM differentiates between Visa and MC and charges an MC card the higher rate? First I've heard of that.

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Yes, the normal MC charge is 180 thb vs 150 for Visa.

[yankee99]

That seems better then my in bank transaction yesterday. I took 40,000 baht from bkk bank on a mc and no fees from my bank it cost 1,248.65 Looking at today's rate it would be about 582 baht extra....over the TT rate.

Are you saying you did a counter withdrawal for 40K using your MC debit card at Bangkok Bank???

For starters, usually, on any given day, MC network cards typically are going to have a lower exchange rate compared to VISA network cards.

How were the BKK Bank staff in handling your withdrawal?

Yes I did a counter withdrawal with my scottrade mc. The staff were fine I just handed the card and they came back with a old style cc slip with a impression of the card to sign. About 5 minutes later they came with the money.

[Pib]

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I was using a Schwab Visa Debit Card - Pretty sure I reported it last month in this thread.

Are you saying the ATM differentiates between Visa and MC and charges an MC card the higher rate? First I've heard of that.

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Yes, the normal MC charge is 180 thb vs 150 for Visa.

Yeap, MC results in a higher foreign card ATM use fee at some Thai banks...and some Thai banks are making the fee Bt180 for Visa or MC. Just as FYI, here's a cut-and-paste from the Bangkok Bank website as to the fees they charge different logo foreign cards.

[Pib]

That seems better then my in bank transaction yesterday. I took 40,000 baht from bkk bank on a mc and no fees from my bank it cost 1,248.65 Looking at today's rate it would be about 582 baht extra....over the TT rate.

Are you saying you did a counter withdrawal for 40K using your MC debit card at Bangkok Bank???

For starters, usually, on any given day, MC network cards typically are going to have a lower exchange rate compared to VISA network cards.

How were the BKK Bank staff in handling your withdrawal?

Yes I did a counter withdrawal with my scottrade mc. The staff were fine I just handed the card and they came back with a old style cc slip with a impression of the card to sign. About 5 minutes later they came with the money.

I just love how various Thai banks/branches handle counter withdrawals for debit and credit cards. As I've posted earlier, the particular Bangkok Bank branch I use will not do a counter withdrawal for a debit card...they just point you to their ATM. But they will do a counter withdrawal for a credit card. And we also seen in the various posts how PIN number must be entered in some cases and other cases just a signature....and other cases PIN and signature....and now we have the old style card impression type receipt for signature being use. Yes sir, very little standardization.

[yankee99]

FYI this was the branch on soi bukaho in pattaya as its open 7 days a week. No pin number required.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That seems better then my in bank transaction yesterday. I took 40,000 baht from bkk bank on a mc and no fees from my bank it cost 1,248.65 Looking at today's rate it would be about 582 baht extra....over the TT rate.

Are you saying you did a counter withdrawal for 40K using your MC debit card at Bangkok Bank???

For starters, usually, on any given day, MC network cards typically are going to have a lower exchange rate compared to VISA network cards.

How were the BKK Bank staff in handling your withdrawal?

Yes I did a counter withdrawal with my scottrade mc. The staff were fine I just handed the card and they came back with a old style cc slip with a impression of the card to sign. About 5 minutes later they came with the money.

Yankee, how's Scottrade on the issue of foreign currency fees for using their card abroad?

The last time I checked on the various brokerages, it seemed to me Scottrade was charging a foreign currency fee, at least according to their website info.

Needless to say, a FCF charged by the brokerage would also eat into your net proceeds.

Edited March 30, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[yankee99]

Unless its hidden I do not think they have any added fees.

https://www.scottrade.com/documents/alt/BA_FeeSchedule.pdf

[Pib]

Did an ATM withdrawal this afternoon at a Thai Military Bank ATM.

Good news is, they still have the 30,000 baht withdrawal possible, and their withdrawal fee for VISA cards, at least for now, remains at 150 baht (not raised to 180 baht).

My card reimburses me for foreign ATM fees, and has a $1,000 daily ATM limit, so that fits nicely with the 30,000 baht ATM machine limit.

Exchange rate today was 32.44 with no foreign currency fee, which is exactly what the VISA network currency exchange website says it should be for a March 30 transaction.

That seems better then my in bank transaction yesterday. I took 40,000 baht from bkk bank on a mc and no fees from my bank it cost 1,248.65 Looking at today's rate it would be about 582 baht extra....over the TT rate.

The exchange rate you got is almost exactly 1% lower than the full Mastercard exchange rate for the day of your transaction. You should have got a MC exchange rate of approx 32.32 based on the MC currency exchange website. This would have resulted in a lower $1,237.62 charge to your account. TT rate is not a player here as that deals with wire transfers. When using your card to do an ATM or counter withdrawal you get the MC/Visa (or whatever logo is on your card) exchange rate (not the TT rate) minus any foreign transaction fee your card issuing bank may charge....and of course also assuming you don't accept a Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) exchange rate a local ATM/bank may offer you which will most likely give you an even lower exchange rate...as much as 4% lower....DCC bad, very bad for the customer....DCC good, very good for the bank/merchant.

And when looking at that Scotttrade fee schedule in your other post above, Scottrade talks about "domestic" withdrawals but seem to dance around "foreign" withdrawal/transaction fees...they refer you to their banking agreement for more details...and the only one I could find on online seem really small/truncated...like it was not the full agreement that I expect they may only mail you. Based on the exchange rate you got I'm going to guess that Scottrade is "not" absorbing the 0.2 to 1% currency conversation fee MC charges and letting that fee be passed on to you via a lower exchange rate. Technically, Scottrade can then say "they" are not charging a foreign transaction fee but at the same time they are not absorbing the MC fee either like how Schwab absorbs the Visa card 0.15 to 1% currency conversion fee which makes it a true no foreign transaction fee card to the customer.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Hey Pib, on the subject of MasterCard currency exchange rates, AFAIR, they used to have two sites, a U.S. one and a Europe-based one, with somewhat different rates. But lately, my bookmarks for the U.S. MC site seems to be dead, and I can only find the Europe based one...

Any ideas/info about that?

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On the subject of Scottrade, I remember researching them some months back and, in the end, ruling them out as a likely account for folks here. But right now off the cuff, I can't remember why, or find the info I saved on them... But that would fit in with Pib's calculation done above on their exchange rate. I'll see if I can find the info I gathered re Scottrade...

Ahh... FOUND IT!!! I knew there was a reason. Other than Scottrade having a MasterCard debit card, which starts out with a lower exchange rate, they also don't reimburse any foreign ATM fees unlike Schwab and Fidelity.

But then, there's also this... in my research material, I found a printout from Schwab's website of some very very fineprint language re their MasterCard debit card, which says that MasterCard charges them, and they pass along to their cardholders, a "Cross Border Assessment" of 0.8% and a "Currency Conversion Assessment" of 0.2%." Thus equaling the 1% drain that Pib's calculation above found.

I don't have a link to the web address on my printout, but the section was titled Currency Conversion and Cross Border Transaction Fees, and I believe came from the Scottrade Bank portion of their website.

Edited March 31, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Hey Pib, on the subject of MasterCard currency exchange rates, AFAIR, they used to have two sites, a U.S. one and a Europe-based one, with somewhat different rates. But lately, my bookmarks for the U.S. MC site seems to be dead, and I can only find the Europe based one...

I've never seen separate sites/rates for the U.S.and Europe "MC" cards...just that one MC site that says it was originally developed due to some European requirements but it does apply to all MC cards worldwide as far as I know. Now Visa does have different rates/webpages for European-issued Visa cards and all other countries (which includes the U.S.) Visa cards.

Now what I would dare you to find is an exchange rate page of American Express cards that shows true rates for American Express debit/credit cards. Sure you can find a currency converter on the AmEx website and American Express Travel Services websites but when you read the fine print it usually says it just showing a Forex rate and not the actual AmEx actual exchange rate you would get...to get that info you need to contact an American Express Office near you. To me, that's just beating around the bush...not wanting to show their exchange rate which they would probably call "competitive"....when some company can only use the "competitive" word in describing their rates or they tell you to contact them directly that means their rates probably worst than their competitors.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks Pib... The only thing I've ever noticed about AMEX is most of their products seem to have a 2.7% foreign currency fee, and that was enough to not require any further inquiry on my part.

BTW, re Scottrade, I'm now remembering, I had to search pretty long and hard to find that 1% FCF info re their MC debit card. I think I had heard they were charging a fee, so I knew to keep looking and digging until I found the confirmation.

The more prominent, first-read portions of their website make things sound very nice.... But alas, all is not as it would appear to be. I would say, they're a bit less than forthright about how they present info on foreign transactions with their card. Mystery solved!

Edited March 31, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Thanks Pib... The only thing I've ever noticed about AMEX is most of their products seem to have a 2.7% foreign currency fee, and that was enough to not require any further inquiry on my part.

But that's a "competitive" 2.7%.

[elzach]

Thanks Pib... The only thing I've ever noticed about AMEX is most of their products seem to have a 2.7% foreign currency fee, and that was enough to not require any further inquiry on my part.

BTW, re Scottrade, I'm now remembering, I had to search pretty long and hard to find that 1% FCF info re their MC debit card. I think I had heard they were charging a fee, so I knew to keep looking and digging until I found the confirmation.

The more prominent, first-read portions of their website make things sound very nice.... But alas, all is not as it would appear to be. I would say, they're a bit less than forthright about how they present info on foreign transactions with their card. Mystery solved!

Just to confirm on Scottrade, I had called them and yes, they charge the 1% MC fee as they call it.

As for TMB, they still charge the 150 bht fee for MC withdrawals, not 180. I did an ATM on Friday. And they do offer the DCC and probably more sneaky than other banks. If I remember correctly, they just give you the two options at the point of confirming the withdrawal, without calculating the USD amount.

Now, the most annoying part for me is the difference between the MC and Visa exchange rates. Case in point, the Friday rate that was used throughout the weekend (with 0% fees), MC: 32.32, Visa: 32.46, or 43 basis points! The Friday fixing rate was 32.50 bht. This difference appears any day I do the calculation.

I had pointed out some time ago this difference and Pib had attributed it to the difference in transaction vs. posting dates. But I think it's clear though that the reason is MC greed. We wouldn't put it past them now, would we? Do we all remember the massive class action suit against MC/Visa from 1998-1999?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

All other things being equal, a VISA logo card is almost always going to have a better exchange rate than a MC logo card, based on the differential in the exchange rates used by the two networks.

There are also time differences involved, in the setting of their rates. If I recall correctly, VISA sets their rates on a 24-hour cycle beginning at midnight or 12:01 each day, whereas MasterCard sets their new rates starting at noon U.S. time for the ensuing 24 hours. So depending on which card you're using here and whether it's a morning or afternoo/evening transaction, it may fall into a different day/exchange rate cycle.

In this case, Scottrade is both a) using a MC card that has an inherently lower exchange rate, and then b] compounding the disadvantage by passing along the MC 1% FCF fee to its cardholders.

By comparison, E-Trade brokerage and their Max-Rate checking account also charge a 1% FCF, but at least they're using a VISA debit card.

They also do U.S. ATM fee refunds, but I'm not sure about their foreign ATM fee refunds. I can't remember how they handle those.

https://us.etrade.com/banking/checking-account?ploc=bank-nav

Schwab and Fidelity, I believe, both use VISA debit cards, both have no FCF on ATM withdrawals, and both refund other banks' foreign ATM withdrawal fees.

Edited March 31, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[elzach]

All other things being equal, a VISA logo card is almost always going to have a better exchange rate than a MC logo card, based on the differential in the exchange rates used by the two networks.

There are also time differences involved, in the setting of their rates. If I recall correctly, VISA sets their rates on a 24-hour cycle beginning at midnight or 12:01 each day, whereas MasterCard sets their new rates starting at noon U.S. time for the ensuing 24 hours. So depending on which card you're using here and whether it's a morning or afternoo/evening transaction, it may fall into a different day/exchange rate cycle.

In this case, Scottrade is both a) using a MC card that has an inherently lower exchange rate, and then b] compounding the disadvantage by passing along the MC 1% FCF fee to its cardholders.

By comparison, E-Trade brokerage and their Max-Rate checking account also charge a 1% FCF, but at least they're using a VISA debit card.

They also do U.S. ATM fee refunds, but I'm not sure about their foreign ATM fee refunds. I can't remember how they handle those.

https://us.etrade.com/banking/checking-account?ploc=bank-nav

Schwab and Fidelity, I believe, both use VISA debit cards, both have no FCF on ATM withdrawals, and both refund other banks' foreign ATM withdrawal fees.

I just got off the phone with Fidelity, since I have an account with them any way. They do charge a 1% FTF, plus $1 for any transaction over 5 in a billing cycle, but yes they reimburse the local ATM fee. And yes they do use a Visa debit card.

[muchogra]

We were only recently told by our daughter that each time we used Aeon, whilst free here, was charged USD18.5 from our account on the other end. Well, with the charge from Aeon now, we will not use it again!

[JimGant]

I just got off the phone with Fidelity, since I have an account with them any way. They do charge a 1% FTF, plus $1 for any transaction over 5 in a billing cycle, but yes they reimburse the local ATM fee. And yes they do use a Visa debit card.

The official word, printed and spoken from Fidelity, is that they do charge a 1% FTF ("charge" in the sense that they pass on the 1% Visa FTF). However, existing customers -- at least several on this forum -- are reporting they aren't being charged this 1%. Stealth customer service?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I just got off the phone with Fidelity, since I have an account with them any way. They do charge a 1% FTF, plus $1 for any transaction over 5 in a billing cycle, but yes they reimburse the local ATM fee. And yes they do use a Visa debit card.

The official word, printed and spoken from Fidelity, is that they do charge a 1% FTF ("charge" in the sense that they pass on the 1% Visa FTF). However, existing customers -- at least several on this forum -- are reporting they aren't being charged this 1%. Stealth customer service?

If I recall correctly, the reports we've had here from Fidelity accountholders are that they don't get charged any FCF for ATM withdrawals but do incur a 1% fee on POS transactions. Obviously, and it's been often noted here, that's not what Fidelity reps or their website say is their practice.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

We were only recently told by our daughter that each time we used Aeon, whilst free here, was charged USD18.5 from our account on the other end. Well, with the charge from Aeon now, we will not use it again!

Perhaps you need to take a closer look as the foreign transaction fees policy of your home bank account.

Prior to beginning to charge the 150 baht withdrawal fee, AEON ATM transactions were entirely fee-free on the AEON end.

However, you could begin to approach an $18 per withdrawal charge if you were using the wrong U.S. bank, for example, Bank of America, among others.

BofA now charges a flat $5 fee plus 3% of the withdrawal amount for foreign ATM withdrawals. Then add in the Thai banks own nearly $5 ATM withdrawal fee, and you'd begin to reach that neighborhood, depending on the withdrawal amount.

What are the fees for using a debit card or ATM card in a foreign country?

The Non-Bank of America ATM usage fee is $5. This fee is assessed for each withdrawal, transfer or balance inquiry performed at a Non-Bank of America ATM in a foreign country. In addition, the ATM operator may charge an access fee for cash withdrawals.

Your deposit account statement will reflect the U.S. dollar equivalent of your foreign ATM withdrawal. Bank of America will assess an international transaction fee of 3% of the US dollar amount for all ATM withdrawals processed in foreign currency.

https://www.bankofamerica.com/deposits/manage/faq-atm-fees.go

I must say though, BofA certainly has their cojones.... After charging their cardholders $5 plus 3% for the privilege of accessing their own funds while traveling outside the U.S., BofA has the good citizen spirit to then proceed to warn its cardholders against accepting Dynamic Currency Conversion offers at foreign ATMs that could result in even higher fees...

Foreign ATM operators may offer to do your currency conversion for you, but they may charge a higher fee for conversion. To insure that your currency conversion does not incur a fee higher than the one stated above, you may refuse the ATM operator's offer to convert the amount of the transaction.

Thanks so much, BofA!

Edited April 1, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

When it comes to using BoA cards outside the U.S. it's generally best NOT to!!! Their cards are fine for use within the U.S. and their 1, 2 or 3% cash back credit card is a very good cash back card, but don't use it for a foreign transaction because it comes with a 3% FTF. BoA indeed has some healthy fees in some of their services/products but not all. In fact they have one credit card called Travel Rewards card that does not charge a FTF. Generally for American citizens who become expats BoA would not be the best bank to have..far from it since there are many banks with lower fee or fee free products/services.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

[vagabond48]

I just got off the phone with Fidelity, since I have an account with them any way. They do charge a 1% FTF, plus $1 for any transaction over 5 in a billing cycle, but yes they reimburse the local ATM fee. And yes they do use a Visa debit card.

The official word, printed and spoken from Fidelity, is that they do charge a 1% FTF ("charge" in the sense that they pass on the 1% Visa FTF). However, existing customers -- at least several on this forum -- are reporting they aren't being charged this 1%. Stealth customer service?

I have their debit card and that is correct. Contrary to what is being told by their CS reps, Fidelity does not "currently" pass the 1% Visa fee.

I should note that I only have used it to withdraw cash from ATMs.

Edited April 2, 2014 by vagabond48

[Langsuan Man]

We were only recently told by our daughter that each time we used Aeon, whilst free here, was charged USD18.5 from our account on the other end. Well, with the charge from Aeon now, we will not use it again!

Since we are only allowed to name and shame US banks here at TV, please tell us the name of the bank that charged you $18.50 for ATM withdrawals

[vagabond48]

When it comes to using BoA cards outside the U.S. it's generally best NOT to!!! Their cards are fine for use within the U.S. and their 1, 2 or 3% cash back credit card is a very good cash back card, but don't use it for a foreign transaction because it comes with a 3% FTF. BoA indeed has some healthy fees in some of their services/products but not all. In fact they have one credit card called Travel Rewards card that does not charge a FTF. Generally for American citizens who become expats BoA would not be the best bank to have..far from it since there are many banks with lower fee or fee free products/services.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

I have the BOA Visa CC which I originally got from Schwab. I am not charged any FTF and get a cash reward of 2% of supermarket purchases and 1% on the rest. I just got the CapOne Quicksilver Visa and I get cash reward of 1.5% on all purchases.

Edited April 2, 2014 by vagabond48

[Pib]

When it comes to using BoA cards outside the U.S. it's generally best NOT to!!! Their cards are fine for use within the U.S. and their 1, 2 or 3% cash back credit card is a very good cash back card, but don't use it for a foreign transaction because it comes with a 3% FTF. BoA indeed has some healthy fees in some of their services/products but not all. In fact they have one credit card called Travel Rewards card that does not charge a FTF. Generally for American citizens who become expats BoA would not be the best bank to have..far from it since there are many banks with lower fee or fee free products/services.

Sent from my Samsung S4 (GT-I9500)

I have the BOA Visa CC which I originally got from Schwab. I am not charged any FTF and get a cash reward of 2% of supermarket purchases and 1% on the rest. I just got the CapOne Quicksilver Visa and I get cash reward of 1.5% on all purchases.

I expect with it previously being a no-FTF Schwab card (that's why many people originally got the card) is the main reason BoA don't switch it to a FTF card (yet)....and hopefully they'll will keep that card a no-FTF card by continuing to grandfather folks who already had the card. I don't think that Schwab-turned-BoA credit card is open to new enrollments anymore.

When it comes to credit cards it's usually best to have several different cash back/rewards cards...preaching to the choir I know. Like that particular PenFed Platinum Cash Rewards credit card I use to accomplish counter withdrawals...it's a no-FTF card (like all PenFed credit cards) and also has no cash advance fee--AND pays 5% (yes, Five percent) cash back for gas obtained from a self- serve pay-at-the-pump gas machine common throughout the U.S. And I'm able to log onto my PenFed account to immediately pay for the cash withdrawal which prevents any interest charge Unfortunately, Thailand don't use those pumps which you can slide your card into to pay and self fill your vehicle...but when I do go back to the U.S. on visits my PenFed credit card will be the one I use to pay for gas.

And that CapOne QuickSilver card paying 1.5% on anything and everything is the one the wife and I use almost daily in Thailand where ever we can use a credit card....we got the Visa and Mastercard versions and mostly use the Visa version since the exchange rate is just a little better than the MC version....got the Visa version less than a year ago via new application but the Mastercard version is really the old No Hassles Cash back card we already had that paid 2% on most everything, especially in Thailand...all my Lotus/Big C/gas station buys/etc., buys earned 2% cash back but recently CapOne changed the rewards program to match the QuickSilver 1.5% program....you just never know when a bank/credit card company will change their policies...and in this case CapOne didn't grandfather no one by allowing them to stay under the better 2% cash back program...nope, everyone was switched to the 1.5% program on day X and said when the card expires the replacement card automatically mailed out will be logo'ed as the QuickSilver card. Oh well, but 1.5% on everything is still good plus it's a no-FTF card. Been with CapOne around 3 years now and so far been very happy with their cards and service....never a problem with use of their cards in Thailand.

[paz]

Been with CapOne around 3 years now and so far been very happy with their cards and service....never a problem with use of their cards in Thailand.

CapOne doesn't ship cards outside the US so if it expires or lost while in Thailand, you'll need re-shipping.

[Pib]

Been with CapOne around 3 years now and so far been very happy with their cards and service....never a problem with use of their cards in Thailand.

CapOne doesn't ship cards outside the US so if it expires or lost while in Thailand, you'll need re-shipping.

Fortunately I also have an APO address here in Thailand...they do ship to APO/FPO addresses.

[elzach]

Been with CapOne around 3 years now and so far been very happy with their cards and service....never a problem with use of their cards in Thailand.

CapOne doesn't ship cards outside the US so if it expires or lost while in Thailand, you'll need re-shipping.

Fortunately I also have an APO address here in Thailand...they do ship to APO/FPO addresses.

Pib, on the topic of cash back rewards, I think good old Discover should be up there. Even though the regular cashback percentage is ridiculous, they have frequently 5% cash back specials, plus their dedicated online shopping site has all the major online retailers offering 5%-10% cash back. For example, expedia, hotels.com etc. Let's say you book a hotel for $200, that's $10 cash back. Can't beat that.

Plus 0% FTF of course. The trouble is that usage in Thailand is very limited. It's supposed to be accepted anywhere Diners is accepted (Discover bought them out), but even at the duty free I had trouble using it. I believe I tried Big C and Tesco, no luck. Interestingly enough, it works just fine in China, since they have an agreement with UnionPay.

[Pib]

Yea...Discover is fine for the U.S. and possibly many countries but for in-Thailand use checkout clerks just look at you funny and then ask for your Visa or Mastercard.