High speed train proposals ready for the next Thai administration

[pb1936]

A completely insane idea........what is needed is a comprehensive network of double track rail links to cover the whole of the main destinations.

[HannahD]

The ridership required to generate adequate revenue to amortize the massive loans is almost certainly unattainable. I can not imagine any sensible investor buying bonds that promise payment based on revenues. This project can only go forward if repayment is guaranteed by the people of Thailand not the State Railway of Thailand.

[peterbkk9]

I don't think Thais would take the train anyway.

They would rather drive their own car or fly.

Even more so after the first accident of the high speed train which I believe would probably happen soon after they put it in service.

There are so many more urgent priorities. For example why don't they replace their ageing city bus fleet by electric buses first? This would improve air quality in Bangkok

Edited February 12, 2014 by peterbkk9

[ikurauni]

Another corruption will be seen. The business deals will be awarded to a company that pays the highest amount of under the table money to the politicians. If the Chinese company gets the deal, I will never want to ride the train. Their technology sucks.

Japan makes one of the very best high speed trains but they don't do the under the table deals neither do other European nations.

[whatsupdoc]

At last a sound plan to drag the country up out of its much maligned third world status.

This circusact???

[sirchai]

I bet my Mia Noi, that this "project" will end as the plan for the tablets for P.1 and M,3 students.

Guess all TVF members would be proud to sit on such a train, having a chat with Yingluck and her brother, doing 350 km/h, while playing games on a Chinese tablet.

I remember when a Skytrain driver in Bangkok had switched off the security systems, Siemens had invented, and a train collided with another.

A week later they were seeking German train drivers through the Bangkok Post.-

.

[StreetCowboy]

I bet my Mia Noi, that this "project" will end as the plan for the tablets for P.1 and M,3 students.

Guess all TVF members would be proud to sit on such a train, having a chat with Yingluck and her brother, doing 350 km/h, while playing games on a Chinese tablet.

I remember when a Skytrain driver in Bangkok had switched off the security systems, Siemens had invented, and a train collided with another.

A week later they were seeking German train drivers through the Bangkok Post.-

.

I don't recall that incident - can you refresh our minds?

I think it's important to get one's facts right when recounting accidents, as best one can.

SC

[bigbamboo]

A completely insane idea........what is needed is a comprehensive network of double track rail links to cover the whole of the main destinations.

Agreed.

I don't know what Yingluck plans to put in those lunchboxes but I'd have to be completely smashed before I got on a 200mph train in Thailand.

[Prbkk]

I bet my Mia Noi, that this "project" will end as the plan for the tablets for P.1 and M,3 students.

Guess all TVF members would be proud to sit on such a train, having a chat with Yingluck and her brother, doing 350 km/h, while playing games on a Chinese tablet.

I remember when a Skytrain driver in Bangkok had switched off the security systems, Siemens had invented, and a train collided with another.

A week later they were seeking German train drivers through the Bangkok Post.-

.

A proposal endorsed and promoted by Mr. Abhisit....

[VINCENT2012]

wow...! nice piece of cake...some will find the way to get their part like they did with the construction of the new airport...2.2 Trillion baht infrastructure ....man.....can i work as interpreter or whatever you need ? please ?

[zydeco]

You'll see people being beamed from Bangkok to Chiang Mai Star Trek style before you ever see that high speed train.

[The Deerhunter]

For God's sake, Thailand does not need a super duper high speed train system yet. It needs better rolling stock, better track maintenance and double tracking on all high capacity routes. Who need a high speed rail system? The Pollies do!!!. Big projects like this are easier to milk than little ones. Refer to Google or Wikipedia for Suvarnabhumi airport corruption. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_the_Suvarnabhumi_Airport_project

[Basil B]

Wonder where Shin Corp (Dubai) fits in on this deal?

Probably a very large consultancy fee, for advising instructing the PM.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Basil B

[BillyBobThai]

If I am still alive when this beautiful train starts operating, I plan on riding from up here in Chaing Mai to Bangkok. I plan on going on one of the first runs, as after a few trips down the track, it is surely going to fall off the rails. Want be a pretty site.

[tomacht8]

High speed train?

Waste of money.

No economic benefit for thailand.

Credit costs over three generations with compound interest, it is then 6 Trillion Baht.

A high speed train would only privately funded carriers (aircrafts, buses) to gain market shares.

It would be better to use this money for modernisation of all schools, state hospitals, roads, conventional railway lines,
drinking water supply and environmental protection.

If this money would then be evenly, fairly and transparently throughout Thailand have invested,

then it would benefits the entire population and many Thai people with work too.

If you want it fast, then you can take still an airplane.

My opinion.

Edited February 12, 2014 by tomacht8

[bigbamboo]

You're kidding, right?

The train was never to happen. It was just an excuse to take a loan to pay farmers.

Does anyone really believe this will EVER be built?

Now I am not saying it's a bad idea. I'd like to take a train across the country like TGV in France.

But seeing the mishaps of the "regular" train lately, I think I would have significant reservations about getting into one.

I think it would be a far better idea to turn the whole existing tracks into dual tracks, and add the bends in the turns, using more $$ to build proper foundation and rail, then electrify the tracks, and run both "standard" and "high speed" trains on existing tracks.

It would certainly cost far less than this megalomanic idea that is only designed to cover up the fact that the government is broke (pleeeezeee - "We're not broke, we are in good enough shape to ask for a loan" IS BEING BROKE) and fill the pockets of those involved with the project at the tune of probably half if not more of the entire budget.

Which would raise by at least 200-300% during construction anyway.

Environmentally and economically a good rail network is better than the use of road and air transport. It just needs to be properly conceived, and then built, which is something I am doubtful anyone here (and in many other countries) is capable of doing.

If they do as you say then the Chinese will be willing partners in the construction, funding and most importantly the planning of the route ........ although they have their own reasons for that of course.

[sonar6ca]

Not this again.

[biggles45]

They can't even keep the trains that they have on the lines, and they only do around 50 mph. God help us at 200 mph !!

[herb59]

"The Office of Transport and Traffic Policy and Planning has prepared four high speed train projects"

same electricitiy as on the sunken dive boats???

[northernjohn]

"...saying that the route had been divided into two parts: Bangkok - Phitsanulok and Phitsanulok-Chiang Mai..."

Meaning of course that the hi-speed line will only run from Bangkok to Phitsanulok at first and then they will run out of money or get bogged down fighting corruption charges. I believe that the Bangkok - Nong Khai line will also only run to Khorat. Obviously no hope of any line South of Hua Hin while PT is in charge and Southerners don't vote for them.

I believe the original plan called for three sections Bangkok to Chiang Mai. The Government was to build the first section and private interest the other two. I can just see a line of private investors to build the rest of it. NOT.

There was nothing concrete about it but they did have some plans as France said they would not be interested in doing it for the price Thailand was willing to pay. I believe China and Japan were the only one's interested in doing the job but ball park figures or maybe bar talk figures had Japan about twice as high as China.

The original one proposed from Singapore to Peaking was talking about double tracking and moving it away from cities and using bridges over roadways.

I wonder who they were surveying for the one to Chiang Mai. My bet says no one in Yala but the residents of Yala could let their great grandchildren pay for it. 52 years to pay it off. Some one did the math on it and said if they would just bank the first 12 years of interest they would have enough money and not have to borrow any money.

China had a proposal to go all the way through Thailand but miss Chiang Mai. They figured it was out of the question but it would be feasible to build a spur line to Chiang Rai.

[englishoak]

It has to happen at some point what century do you think this is ? Its about trade and logistics more than passengers and China are very interested in shaving off a few thousand miles by sea or an hr or two by air.

You can bet Myanmar will be opening up hugely in the next couple of decades and there its a blank canvass. Look past the obvious and cynical issues and realise Thailand has no comprehensive rail service and its way outdated, be a good option to forget about a sub standard out of date diesel system and connect a few high speed quality routes instead.

It'll come and it'll be safe its like an airline, when you start getting into high speed rail the standards have to go right up, no one ever accuses Thai airlines of being deathtraps safety on HSR wouldnt be an issue.

The funding of course would be a concern but the gossip about it being a scam on such a scale are just another market story. Besides we are about to have major reforms here and when the shins leave politics there wont be massive corruption anymore remember ?

It would be nice and modern and itll take a decade or more to install, stop being dinosaurs and look to the future like China etc are doing, i heard all the same crap about the BTS and the MRT ... try imagining BKK without them now

[Ulic]

Thais do love their white elephants.

You mean like the MRT and the BTS?

And white elephants

[EricBerg]

If this goes ahead , understand I am not an economist or banker or wall street financer .

I am a average laymen that does not understand the financial markets

My question is if they borrow the money to build it how much then in total would Thailand dept be in us dollars ?

That would be at least 70 BILLION USD debt for the taxpayers. In practise megaprojects like this always turn out to be way more expensive than planned. One should ask how much money those highspeed trains would generate over the decades. Nobody so far showed the megalomanic project will earn back the investment.

But it will be a mouthwatering project for the shinamafia. Many more billions can be stolen than with the ricescam.

[tingtongteesood]

No, it doesn't have to happen especially with corrupt parasites in charge leaching as much of the 'loan' as they possibly can. Unnecessary waste of money, both the train idea and the PT buffoons !

[shaurene]

Oh LOL, LOL, LOL, if the Government allow a Thai Company to do this it will be a disaster, short cuts galore to make up for the under table envelopes.

I hope they have the sense to bring in foreign experience it would end up cheaper.

[tomyummer]

As much as a high speed rail would be awesome, the thought of it in the hands of Thai engineers seems deadly. Just as with nuclear power plants or medical waste disposal.

[ezzra]

It took 20 odd years for our swampy airport to get from drawing to realty, it could be the

very well same here...

[JRSoul]

It has to happen at some point what century do you think this is ? Its about trade and logistics more than passengers and China are very interested in shaving off a few thousand miles by sea or an hr or two by air.

You can bet Myanmar will be opening up hugely in the next couple of decades and there its a blank canvass. Look past the obvious and cynical issues and realise Thailand has no comprehensive rail service and its way outdated, be a good option to forget about a sub standard out of date diesel system and connect a few high speed quality routes instead.

It'll come and it'll be safe its like an airline, when you start getting into high speed rail the standards have to go right up, no one ever accuses Thai airlines of being deathtraps safety on HSR wouldnt be an issue.

The funding of course would be a concern but the gossip about it being a scam on such a scale are just another market story. Besides we are about to have major reforms here and when the shins leave politics there wont be massive corruption anymore remember ?

It would be nice and modern and itll take a decade or more to install, stop being dinosaurs and look to the future like China etc are doing, i heard all the same crap about the BTS and the MRT ... try imagining BKK without them now

HSR is a passenger service. It will not carry freight as that would require an upgrading of the track to bear the extra loads, and because there is simply no demand for such an expensive service.

[Carl64]

We must get the rice farmers to check what happens to this merchandise.

By the way, what kind of efficiency and safety standards are we to expect if this thing gets built?

It will be up to the normal Thai standards of safety. You know, same as SRT, long dstance buses, container trucks and that bastion of safety, mini vans.

And dive boats!

[englishoak]

It has to happen at some point what century do you think this is ? Its about trade and logistics more than passengers and China are very interested in shaving off a few thousand miles by sea or an hr or two by air.

You can bet Myanmar will be opening up hugely in the next couple of decades and there its a blank canvass. Look past the obvious and cynical issues and realise Thailand has no comprehensive rail service and its way outdated, be a good option to forget about a sub standard out of date diesel system and connect a few high speed quality routes instead.

It'll come and it'll be safe its like an airline, when you start getting into high speed rail the standards have to go right up, no one ever accuses Thai airlines of being deathtraps safety on HSR wouldnt be an issue.

The funding of course would be a concern but the gossip about it being a scam on such a scale are just another market story. Besides we are about to have major reforms here and when the shins leave politics there wont be massive corruption anymore remember ?

It would be nice and modern and itll take a decade or more to install, stop being dinosaurs and look to the future like China etc are doing, i heard all the same crap about the BTS and the MRT ... try imagining BKK without them now

HSR is a passenger service. It will not carry freight as that would require an upgrading of the track to bear the extra loads, and because there is simply no demand for such an expensive service.

I would suggest HSR track upgrading is exactly what will happen, Thailand has 0 so not a problem if installed from the outset. http://www.worldfinance.com/infrastructure-investment/project-management/high-speed-rail-the-future-of-freight