New House Build in Issan (Nong Ki)

[Kimera]

This year the plan is to build a new house in Nong Ki Issan, the land is ex rice field and has had the ground raised some 2 mtrs and this has been down settling for 2 years. I do have plans for the house but what I really need is some advice from anyone local who has done this and could recommend a building firm or a reliable builder that they have personally used or indeed one that they know of who has built houses for falang or Thai that I could talk to and possibly see their work.

Thank You

[cdmtdm]

Kimera , is that Nong Khai or Nong Ki ?

[khwaibah]

Kimera , is that Nong Khai or Nong Ki ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nong_Ki_District

[Tafia]

Also a good site to view http://www.coolthaihouse.com/

[cdmtdm]

okkk sorry for my ignorance

[khwaibah]

okkk sorry for my ignorance

Not a crime. The only way to learn is by asking.

[MobileContent]

From my experience if it is really farmland outside of the mooban you might not be allowed to build a house but you could build a hut.

My in-laws have a nice peace of land and we were not allowed to build a bungalow on that land as it is registered as farmland.

[Diablo Bob]

Posted 2014-02-12 21:12:18

This year the plan is to build a new house in Nong Ki Issan, the land is ex rice field and has had the ground raised some 2 mtrs and this has been down settling for 2 years. I do have plans for the house but what I really need is some advice from anyone local who has done this and could recommend a building firm or a reliable builder that they have personally used or indeed one that they know of who has built houses for falang or Thai that I could talk to and possibly see their work.

Kimera

I have high lighted an area of concern, to me.

The building pad has been raised 2 meters. This pad has been settling for 2 years..... when constructed was the pad compacted? There is a definite difference between settlement and compaction. Depending on the soil type settlement might achieve anywhere from 50 - 100% compaction. If soil from the surrounding paddy was used you will be in the lower percentile (50%) due to the high percentages of silts and clays. If the material is a pure sand or a gravel of a single size you could see compaction values approach 100%.

I have seen engineered fills designed for as little as 85% (Highly expansive clays) used for builing pads but typically the requirements are anywhere from 90-95% for compaction requiments on a housing building pad.

Failure to have a compacted pad might cause structural distress in a completed structure. There might be future issues with your underground plumbing. Please note that I use the term might, because there might be no problems, but you are rolling the dice it's your gamble.

If rebuilding the pad is a problem, the only solution I can think of would be to reduce the loads exerted on the pad. This can be accomplished by going with a mat foundation (No foundations) which eliminates column foundation BUT will be very expensive (Much more concrete and Alot more rebar). If that's to pricey of an option, you can enlarge the column and wall foundations (wider & deeper).Or you can roll the dice.

Soil will settle over time but generally will only compact with mechanical effort provided by man.

[Kimera]

From my experience if it is really farmland outside of the mooban you might not be allowed to build a house but you could build a hut.

My in-laws have a nice peace of land and we were not allowed to build a bungalow on that land as it is registered as farmland.

Yes Thanks, I believe it depends on the title paper there are several leading up to chanote, do you know what land title your in-laws hold?

[Kimera]

Posted 2014-02-12 21:12:18

This year the plan is to build a new house in Nong Ki Issan, the land is ex rice field and has had the ground raised some 2 mtrs and this has been down settling for 2 years. I do have plans for the house but what I really need is some advice from anyone local who has done this and could recommend a building firm or a reliable builder that they have personally used or indeed one that they know of who has built houses for falang or Thai that I could talk to and possibly see their work.

Kimera

I have high lighted an area of concern, to me.

The building pad has been raised 2 meters. This pad has been settling for 2 years..... when constructed was the pad compacted? There is a definite difference between settlement and compaction. Depending on the soil type settlement might achieve anywhere from 50 - 100% compaction. If soil from the surrounding paddy was used you will be in the lower percentile (50%) due to the high percentages of silts and clays. If the material is a pure sand or a gravel of a single size you could see compaction values approach 100%.

I have seen engineered fills designed for as little as 85% (Highly expansive clays) used for builing pads but typically the requirements are anywhere from 90-95% for compaction requiments on a housing building pad.

Failure to have a compacted pad might cause structural distress in a completed structure. There might be future issues with your underground plumbing. Please note that I use the term might, because there might be no problems, but you are rolling the dice it's your gamble.

If rebuilding the pad is a problem, the only solution I can think of would be to reduce the loads exerted on the pad. This can be accomplished by going with a mat foundation (No foundations) which eliminates column foundation BUT will be very expensive (Much more concrete and Alot more rebar). If that's to pricey of an option, you can enlarge the column and wall foundations (wider & deeper).Or you can roll the dice.

Soil will settle over time but generally will only compact with mechanical effort provided by man.

Thanks for your info, I imagine the pad was built in the usual Thai.way, A large Bon was dug 3 meters deep and the sub soil a mix of sand and clay was used and I imagine the only compacting was from the lorrys and the machines leveling it.

Is there any simple way of testing the % of compaction ?

[NeverSure]

"Thanks for your info, I imagine the pad was built in the usual Thai.way, A large Bon was dug 3 meters deep and the sub soil a mix of sand and clay was used and I imagine the only compacting was from the lorrys and the machines leveling it.

Is there any simple way of testing the % of compaction ?"

In the US, soil is considered compacted if it has been in place for at least 2 years. Still, it is always tested.

The way it is tested is with a small electrical box of some sort. A steel stake is driven into the ground and attached to this machine. The machine puts out some kind of signals (don't know what but I've seen it done) through the steel stake and will give a meter reading as to the % of compaction.

Clay is another story and isn't used because it expands and contracts as it gets wet and then dries. Over time this can allow a structure to sink into it. In my area, there is always at least 2 feet (2/3 meter) of crushed rock put down and compacted when the clay is very dry and hard. This compaction is done with a machine (sheepsfoot vibratory roller) to lock the crushed rock together and form a solid base.

Sheepsfoot roller

PS You can tell if your soil is expansive clay by getting a handful of it when it's dry, and adding water to it. Mix it thoroughly with your hand until wet. If it forms a single sticky lump it is clay. If it is wet but will still break apart easily in your hand, it isn't expansive. If it is already wet, do the same test with a handful but you don't need the water. Even engineers do that.

Edited February 22, 2014 by NeverSure

[Diablo Bob]

Thanks for your info, I imagine the pad was built in the usual Thai.way, A large Bon was dug 3 meters deep and the sub soil a mix of sand and clay was used and I imagine the only compacting was from the lorrys and the machines leveling it.

Is there any simple way of testing the % of compaction ?

Simple answer, NO, there is no simple way to perform this test.

First off, it is actually 4 tests leading to the Percent compaction determination. They are:

1. Proctor (Maximum density/ Optimum moisture) Wet densities and incremental moisture contents, plotted as dry density vs. % moisture, the apex of the curve yields the maximum density and the optimum moisture.
2. In-situ density and moisture content. Expressed as dry density and moisture content.
3. In-situ density/Maximum density = Percent compaction

Testing methods for in-situ can be Drive cylinders, Sand cone or Nuclear gauge. The first two tests would require a scale (Balance) along with calibrated cylinders (Drive) or a calibrated cone(Sand cone). The sand cone would also require a calibrated reference sand. The nuclear gauge is faster, but in Thailand few engineering labs have them due to cost and licensing requirements.

You are better off hiring a laboratory to run these tests......

[Diablo Bob]

"Thanks for your info, I imagine the pad was built in the usual Thai.way, A large Bon was dug 3 meters deep and the sub soil a mix of sand and clay was used and I imagine the only compacting was from the lorrys and the machines leveling it.

Is there any simple way of testing the % of compaction ?"

In the US, soil is considered compacted if it has been in place for at least 2 years. Still, it is always tested.

The way it is tested is with a small electrical box of some sort. A steel stake is driven into the ground and attached to this machine. The machine puts out some kind of signals (don't know what but I've seen it done) through the steel stake and will give a meter reading as to the % of compaction.

Clay is another story and isn't used because it expands and contracts as it gets wet and then dries. Over time this can allow a structure to sink into it. In my area, there is always at least 2 feet (2/3 meter) of crushed rock put down and compacted when the clay is very dry and hard. This compaction is done with a machine (sheepsfoot vibratory roller) to lock the crushed rock together and form a solid base.

Sheepsfoot roller

PS You can tell if your soil is expansive clay by getting a handful of it when it's dry, and adding water to it. Mix it thoroughly with your hand until wet. If it forms a single sticky lump it is clay. If it is wet but will still break apart easily in your hand, it isn't expansive. If it is already wet, do the same test with a handful but you don't need the water. Even engineers do that.

I don't know what part of the states you come from, but in my experience it doesn't matter how long fill has been in place, the question is "Is it documented?" Soil mechanics principles dictate the soils properties, and subsidence is not compaction.

The "Electrical box" is a nuclear gauge. It uses a cesium source for density determination and an Americium source for hydrogen determination (Water). While the newer machines will give you a compaction value, they still require the Maximum density to be entered into the machine. These machines are not capable of determining the Maximum density of a soil. As a matter of fact, no machine is capable of determining the maximum density of a soil. The laboratory still needs to prepare the soil, adjust the moisture content and compact the samples.

The determining factor on wether to use clay in a compacted fill has nothing to do with the clays expansion potential. It is a basic cost calculation! How much will it cost to bring in a different fill material? How much will it cost to use the on-site materials and change to a foundation/slab design that will deal with the expansive soils? Whatever is cheaper is what will be used!

While your test for clay is relatively accurate, it fails to identify expansion potential in a clay. Clay with calcium ions are relatively low to no expansion, whereas a sodium ion clay is a different story. Both clays but with totally different properties. What you are describing is what we refer to as the atterberg limits. Liquid limit, plastic limit, Plasticity Index. High Plastic Limit with a Low liquid limit gives you a HIGH Plasticity Index, both Calcium and Sodium clays fall into this category. Expansion potential is not a factor.

[kalasin]

okkk sorry for my ignorance

Not a crime. The only way to learn is by asking.

Agree to the crime part.

I would say, that study also is a way to learn.